Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours 2017

Coillte_Bhoy

Confirmation of what many suspected. The players ignored Trap in Paris.

From Given's autobiography

Where had our spark gone? Where had our mischief gone?

For the second leg in Paris, Trap wanted us to remain as we had in the first match. He wanted us rigid and deep without pressing too much.

As a squad, though, we felt this was the time to roll the dice.

Given recalls the speech he gave to his teammates before they took to the field in Stade de France.

“Lads I don’t care what he [Trap] says, we’re going to go at these tonight… We’re going to f***ing go for it, we’re going to press them, we’re going to hurry them, we’re going to throw everything at them. Whatever happens, if we get beat we get f***ing beat – and nobody gets back on that bus without giving everything”

Robbie Keane echoed the goalkeeper’s sentiment.

“This is why we play boys, this is where we want to be. We go out there now and we hit them with everything we’ve got until they don’t know what the f***’s going on.”

TheCitizen

briany wrote: »

If O'Neill hasn't got the players who can make things happen at will, then I suppose what he's relying on, in that vacuum, is a bit of luck. Certainly, that's what Ireland got on Monday. In saying that, the team capitalised on that luck very well and didn't squander it.

But the problem with using luck as part of your game plan is it can never be relied upon. It is, almost by definition, a variable. You're always an errant gust of wind, a mis-kick, or deflection away from being the hero or the villain. From people calling for your contract to be extended, or them calling for your head.

i think you're doing MON and his team a disservice by putting it down to luck. We've been able to get the results when needed time and again, when it keeps happening you can discount luck.


Where were we "lucky" against Wales last Monday? We controlled that game, the Welsh created very few opportunities and we took our chance when we created it through the endeavour of Hendrick. There was nothing lucky about it, we thoroughly deserved the win last Monday.

TheCitizen

Dots1982 wrote: »

Luckily the coin has landed on the right side for Ireland and we have beaten the world champions, got to the knockout of the Euros, beaten top ranked sides away which we never do and next month we’ll try and qualify for the World Cup for the fourth time on our history.

This is an era that we shouldn’t expect to see again for a while , enjoy it.

We tossed the coin multiple times but keep getting lucky? I think it's down more to design than luck. In MON we have a manager who has the ability to steel his squad and get them to give maximum effort collectively.

The style isn't always to eveyone's taste but I'd rather qualify for tournaments and play offs than play pretty football and finish as also rans. Ideally when we get to a platform in a game or qualify for a tournament then more expansive football happens naturally as it did for short spells last Monday night.

We need to dispense with this "luck" narrative that's creeping in in conversations on here, you don't get multiple results against higher ranked opposition due to luck. You might get lucky once, but not multiple times over and over again.

The luck we have is that we've got Martin O'Neill as our manager in my view. Right from the beginning and before he was appointed I've always maintained that he's exactly the right man to get the most out of our current squad of players in terms of results. He's proving me correct in that assessment. Long may it continue.

The Talking Bread

Nothing worse than the mentality of people who say they would rather we didn't even qualify for a WORLD BLOODY CUP playing the way we do!

Saying that, if we do qualify, I would obviously like to see MON taking some risk and loosening up, re his approach. But if he didn't, so be it.

CucaFace

TheCitizen wrote: »

Where were we "lucky" against Wales last Monday? We controlled that game, the Welsh created very few opportunities and we took our chance when we created it through the endeavour of Hendrick. There was nothing lucky about it, we thoroughly deserved the win last Monday.

Are you seriously saying we controlled the game against Wales?

The Talking Bread

CucaFace wrote: »

Are you seriously saying we controlled the game against Wales?

Not worth it!

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Where were we "lucky" against Wales last Monday? We controlled that game, the Welsh created very few opportunities and we took our chance when we created it through the endeavour of Hendrick. There was nothing lucky about it, we thoroughly deserved the win last Monday.

I think they call it "alternative facts"...

Dempsey

Controlling the game and limiting their opportunities on goal are not the same thing

The Talking Bread

Dempsey wrote: »

Controlling the game and limiting their opportunities on goal are not the same thing

They had plenty of opportunities and shots also, we survived many an edgy moment last week and that was with our defence and goalkeeper playing their heart out.

Our gameplan that night revolved around a lot going our way and a lot not going Wales' way. And so it transpired. Despite that they had over twice the possession stakes, 17 shots on goal, almost 43 times the amount of passes.

To say we controlled the game is ridiculous.

MON wouldn't even dare say that, and if he did, it would be very much tongue in cheek and his usual anti-media approach

TheCitizen

The Talking Bread wrote: »

They had plenty of opportunities and shots also, we survived many an edgy moment last week and that was with our defence and goalkeeper playing their heart out.

Our gameplan that night revolved around a lot going our way and a lot not going Wales' way. And so it transpired. Despite that they had over twice the possession stakes, 17 shots on goal, almost 43 times the amount of passes.

To say we controlled the game is ridiculous.

MON wouldn't even dare say that, and if he did, it would be very much tongue in cheek and his usual anti-media approach

They didn't actually. You're picking up on my use of the word 'control' and running your mouth with that. Wales controlled possession but they didn't create many clear cut opportunities.

When I use the word 'control' I mean that Ireland set out a plan to stifle the opposition, frustrate them and then be sure to be ready to take any opportunity that comes our way.

On this site with the usual lot, I wouldn't class you as one of them, we often hear that under MON we have no plan etc.. Last week we had a plan and executed it perfectly. Then the usual crew of critics follow that with "he is a lucky manager etc."

He and his team have executed this plan on numerous occasions where they allow the opposition to have possession ,but frustrate them and then take advantage of opportunities to score and win themselves when it comes their way. Sometimes they also grow into a game and enjoy spells of possession themselves.

It's no fluke it's not luck and it's exactly the sort of plan and style we would use if someone like say Jose Mourinho was our manager.

TheCitizen

CucaFace wrote: »

Are you seriously saying we controlled the game against Wales?

I'm saying we had a plan and executed it perfectly

TheCitizen

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Not worth it!

Poor stuff from you

The Talking Bread

TheCitizen wrote: »

Poor stuff from you

No, it isn't. We didn't control the game, yet you think we did so what is worth debating?

You shouldn't get offended every time someone disagrees with you. Entitled to your opinion, but so are others.

It is no coincidence that vast majority of fans would conclude that we didn't control that game and, although we did set out with a game plan, we got a lot of the rub of the green that game, the same way we didn't get the same rub of the green against Georgia and Serbia.

Result is all that matters but we could easily have conceded in the last 15 minutes with pinball in our area and would you still be talking about well executed plans there.

It is obvious what MON set up the team to do and great credit must be given to him for defensive organisation but when you are relying on Randolph to make the saves he made and our two CBs to play out of their skin (one almost scoring an own goal because of the pressure he was under) you have to admit we had more luck than control in that game.

TheCitizen

The Talking Bread wrote: »

No, it isn't. We didn't control the game, yet you think we did so what is worth debating?

You shouldn't get offended every time someone disagrees with you. Entitled to your opinion, but so are others.

It is no coincidence that vast majority of fans would conclude that we didn't control that game and, although we did set out with a game plan, we got a lot of the rub of the green that game, the same way we didn't get the same rub of the green against Georgia and Serbia.

Result is all that matters but we could easily have conceded in the last 15 minutes with pinball in our area and would you still be talking about well executed plans there.

It is obvious what MON set up the team to do and great credit must be given to him for defensive organisation but when you are relying on Randolph to make the saves he made and our two CBs to play out of their skin (one almost scoring an own goal because of the pressure he was under) you have to admit we had more luck than control in that game.

I've already clarified what I meant by 'controlled the game' but you're running with that again. That is poor stuff from you. Of course people are entitled to opinions and it doesn't bother me at all of others disagree. What you're doing is picking up on a word I used and placing it out of context. Ireland were in 'control' to the extent that they went out there last Monday with a specific plan and executed it to the tee. Wales 'controlled' possession but didn't create many clear cut opportunities and crucially lost the game. So, we 'controlled' that game in the way that a Jose Mourinho side for example would.

I disagree we did not have more luck than control in that game last Monday. I've seen us in games in the past where we were under much more pressure and the opposition carved out several clear cut chances. Last Monday wasn't like that. A good save from Randolph from a header from a corner is what stands out.

We could have got hold of the ball a bit better in the latter stages to relieve pressure. That's an element of the game that we can certainly improve on but the overall style and commitment that MON has got from his players is getting us results and deserves better than to be denigrated with comments like "he's lucky etc.' that you see from a certain cohort on here.

PTH2009

Sure we will all be disappointed if we lose the play off but it feels good to be there as it didn't look likely in September

Once we go out and give it everything over the 2 legs I'll be content. I enjoyed that Wales win as much as the Euros win over Italy
Another controversy like the Henry handball incident etc would be heart breaking and won't end well

This time 2morrow it will be a lot clearer who were going up against. I wonder will we have any irish reps in Zurich for it with the weather???

Dempsey

Control implies retaining the football in a meaningful way, we didnt do that. Not by a long shot. You are trying to redefine what it means to control a football game which is not going to fly. We struggled to make 5 yard passes on a regular basis and putting more than 3 passes into a phase of posession was a struggle.

I hope you are not coaching any team with this deluded ideology of controlling a game

Morzadec

We did not control the game (in terms of how that word is usually used in a football context), but I would argue that we were in control of the situation (once we went one up).

The players looked very in control of the situation and our tactics eventually forced Wales to start punting balls into the box which is meat and drink for Duffy and Clark. There wasn't much panicking going on - from a defensive perspective the players were largely very in control.

Our game plan worked perfectly, another day we don't get the break to get a goal and everyone jumps on MON for being too negative. As it stands he's a hero.

My own take is that (even at the time) I thought it was absolutely the right approach to place first priority on not conceding, particularly in that first 20 minutes when Wales would be very up for it. 0-0 half time was perfectly fine for us.

Fine margins can affect results, and then ultimately the manager will live or die by that, but even saying that, I thought MON took the correct approach and eventually forced Wales into a situation we were very comfortable with, very in control of.

Dempsey

You are talking about containing the opposition, not controlling the game. Which is what we did after scoring.

tayto lover

If you are not in charge of the ball then you're not in control.

noodler

We don't control games in fairness.

Actually thought Austria away was much more than a smash and grab, played some controlled possession football even at 0-1 up.

We surrender the football fairly often though, Serbia away, Wales at home, Wales away,even Georgia away although that one was surely not by design.

We'll need to find a balance to get through a two legged affair. Hopefully we can echo the Bosnia/Austria performances in the next two games.

TheCitizen

tayto lover wrote: »

If you are not in charge of the ball then you're not in control.

You can win games while the opposition has most of the ball. Mourinho won trophies and had success in Europe with various teams doing just that often with more expensive players who were better on the ball

TheCitizen

Dempsey wrote: »

Control implies retaining the football in a meaningful way, we didnt do that. Not by a long shot. You are trying to redefine what it means to control a football game which is not going to fly. We struggled to make 5 yard passes on a regular basis and putting more than 3 passes into a phase of posession was a struggle.

I hope you are not coaching any team with this deluded ideology of controlling a game

Sometimes we do retain possession in a meaningful way with O'Neill, not particularly last Monday. Ideally we all like to see football played like Pep's Barca team, and when coaching kids you always preach to pass and keep the ball and not give it away cheaply. There are different ways of playing the game though in the professional game and different ways of 'controlling' the game and getting results other than dominating possession.

I've said this a few times but a coach like Mourinho who has reached the very top in the game if he was with Ireland would set us up the very same way, but posters on here don't really want to face up to that reality.

If it comes down to playing football that yields results but isn't easy on the eye as opposed to trying to play more attractive football but we end up as gallant losers who miss out on play offs and qualification; I know which I would choose to be on and in MON we've got the right manager to deliver on that.

Dempsey

Tiki taka only worked for the Spanish national team because they could rely on the fact that Barcelona had a large number of players drilled in the philosophy of that playing style. Nobody is asking for that in the Irish setup but expecting professional players to make a 5 yard pass, to be ability to look around and make some effort at reading the game surely comes under the basics of giving yourself a chance of doing well in a game? INstead its take a optional touch and hoof as far as you can.

Of course you are right, results matter not performances but when we had to watch games like the Georgia game and others where we struggle to deal with game management particularly when we take an early lead, you can see the limitations of his tactics and the mindset he is instilling in the squad. The Wales game was ideal for his tactics and it has its value in tournament football but it failed us miserably in other games where we had a great chance of getting a better result. We could have been top of this group because we do have a squad capable of doing so with the right management.

weldoninhio

Dempsey wrote: »

Control implies retaining the football in a meaningful way, we didnt do that. Not by a long shot. You are trying to redefine what it means to control a football game which is not going to fly. We struggled to make 5 yard passes on a regular basis and putting more than 3 passes into a phase of posession was a struggle.

I hope you are not coaching any team with this deluded ideology of controlling a game

100%. We got a lucky break of the ball and took the chance. If it had gone the other way and Ramsey scored instead of McClean, we wouldn’t be sitting here saying we controlled that game and should be in the playoffs.

pjohnson

weldoninhio wrote: »

100%. We got a lucky break of the ball and took the chance. If it had gone the other way and Ramsey scored instead of McClean, we wouldn’t be sitting here saying we controlled that game and should be in the playoffs.

Ah your back. Have you backed Palace for the PL yet?

weldoninhio

pjohnson wrote: »

Ah your back. Have you backed Palace for the PL yet?

Was going to, but City didn’t draw

irishman86

TheCitizen wrote: »

I've already clarified what I meant by 'controlled the game' but you're running with that again. That is poor stuff from you. Of course people are entitled to opinions and it doesn't bother me at all of others disagree. What you're doing is picking up on a word I used and placing it out of context. Ireland were in 'control' to the extent that they went out there last Monday with a specific plan and executed it to the tee. Wales 'controlled' possession but didn't create many clear cut opportunities and crucially lost the game. So, we 'controlled' that game in the way that a Jose Mourinho side for example would.

I disagree we did not have more luck than control in that game last Monday. I've seen us in games in the past where we were under much more pressure and the opposition carved out several clear cut chances. Last Monday wasn't like that. A good save from Randolph from a header from a corner is what stands out.

We could have got hold of the ball a bit better in the latter stages to relieve pressure. That's an element of the game that we can certainly improve on but the overall style and commitment that MON has got from his players is getting us results and deserves better than to be denigrated with comments like "he's lucky etc.' that you see from a certain cohort on here.

Suuuurrreee :rolleyes:

irishman86

TheCitizen wrote: »

You can win games while the opposition has most of the ball. Mourinho won trophies and had success in Europe with various teams doing just that often with more expensive players who were better on the ball

You have to stop comparing MON to probably the greatest manager in the game, its gone beyond sad

ionadnapokot

noodler wrote: »

We don't control games in fairness.

Actually thought Austria away was much more than a smash and grab, played some controlled possession football even at 0-1 up.

We surrender the football fairly often though, Serbia away, Wales at home, Wales away,even Georgia away although that one was surely not by design.

We'll need to find a balance to get through a two legged affair. Hopefully we can echo the Bosnia/Austria performances in the next two games.

This exactly
A team can be compact and defend well without the ball. It doesn't automatically mean you have to surrender possession cheaply when you get the ball back.
Meyler will be a big loss. I dread the potential alternative.

ozzy78

I don't see why we can't try to play a bit more possession football ( like we did at the euros). It seems like we're ceding more and more possession to the opposition since the euros. I was hoping we'd build on that, but it's not happened. Randolph always pumps it long even if a full back or centre half shows. Any bit of passing results in a Duffy diagonal hoof or Ward punting it forward in hope. It's regressive football and demoralising to watch. Having said all that it's also effective to a point. The fact oneill got us to playoffs from pot 4 is commendable. The players passion for their team is also unquestionable. I hust hope our underage national teams are being coached to play good football and not using MONs tactics as a blue print. Otherwise i dont think we'll ever realistically do better than just getting past a group stage in a tournament.

briany

Good article on RTE talking to journalists from the possible playoff countries, talking about their perception of the Irish team, who they'd prefer to draw, and how they view their own team's qualification performance up to now.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/1016/912726-irelands-world-cup-opposition-view/

johnnyryan89

Ireland u17s qualify for the elite round of qualifiers for the UEFA u17s Championship as top seeds after a 3-1 win against Ukraine tonight. Norwich u18s striker Adam Idah scored 7 goals in 3 games bagging a brace against Ukraine, a brace in a 3-0 win against hosts Bulgaria and a hat trick in a 6-0 win against Azerbaijan.

TheCitizen

irishman86 wrote: »

You have to stop comparing MON to probably the greatest manager in the game, its gone beyond sad

Did you watch Jose's expensively assembled Man U team at Anfield last Saturday?

You don't get it.

TheCitizen

Dempsey wrote: »

Tiki taka only worked for the Spanish national team because they could rely on the fact that Barcelona had a large number of players drilled in the philosophy of that playing style. Nobody is asking for that in the Irish setup but expecting professional players to make a 5 yard pass, to be ability to look around and make some effort at reading the game surely comes under the basics of giving yourself a chance of doing well in a game? INstead its take a optional touch and hoof as far as you can.

Of course you are right, results matter not performances but when we had to watch games like the Georgia game and others where we struggle to deal with game management particularly when we take an early lead, you can see the limitations of his tactics and the mindset he is instilling in the squad. The Wales game was ideal for his tactics and it has its value in tournament football but it failed us miserably in other games where we had a great chance of getting a better result. We could have been top of this group because we do have a squad capable of doing so with the right management.

We already have the right management, they've got us to a play off.

I recall you never wanted MON appointed as Ireland manager in the first place. I also recall asking you who we should've appointed instead at the time.

Your answer was Guus Hiddink ....LOL.

Guus would've been away with his loot two years back and no return for the FAI investment.

MON? He got us to the Euros and performed well there, and now we're in a play off for the World Cup.

Some Celtic fan you are.

noodler

TheCitizen wrote: »

We already have the right management, they've got us to a play off.

I recall you never wanted MON appointed as Ireland manager in the first place. I also recall asking you who we should've appointed instead at the time.

Your answer was Guus Hiddink ....LOL.

Guus would've been away with his loot two years back and no return for the FAI investment.

MON? He got us to the Euros and performed well there, and now we're in a play off for the World Cup.

Some Celtic fan you are.

And he's off again.

Mr "I do respect opinions contrary to my own"

TheCitizen

noodler wrote: »

And he's off again.

Mr "I do respect opinions contrary to my own"

You think we could do better with a different manager noodler?

And you're off again yourself moaning and whingeing. Unless we win the play offs that is, then you'll disappear on a 36 hour shift.

I'll give you something noodler, you're consistent, you never stop complaining.

PTH2009

Did Trapatoni manage another team after Ireland ???

I wonder does he hate us all

Minderbinder

Late to the conversation, but I don’t see anything wrong with ‘The Citizen’ using the word ‘control’ to describe our performance in Wales. I think it’s absolutely fair to suggest we controlled the game without the ball through intelligent positioning and responsible defending. I don’t know when the word ‘control’ was changed to mean ‘retaining possession for the sake of having possession’. It’s like saying Floyd Mayweather never controlled a fight because he threw fewer punches.

noodler

TheCitizen wrote: »

You think we could do better with a different manager noodler?

And you're off again yourself moaning and whingeing. Unless we win the play offs that is, then you'll disappear on a 36 hour shift.

I'll give you something noodler, you're consistent, you never stop complaining.

And again.

Typical enough.

Good strawman argument there by the way.

*people contest a ridiculous assertion that we control the game against Wales

You:

"what kind of Celtic fan are you?

" you wanted Hidink? Lol"

"you think we could do better with a different manager?"


You never really address the point in question just go into debate nazi mode and blurt out defences to points no one made.

Redo91

TheCitizen wrote: »

They didn't actually. You're picking up on my use of the word 'control' and running your mouth with that. Wales controlled possession but they didn't create many clear cut opportunities.

When I use the word 'control' I mean that Ireland set out a plan to stifle the opposition, frustrate them and then be sure to be ready to take any opportunity that comes our way.

On this site with the usual lot, I wouldn't class you as one of them, we often hear that under MON we have no plan etc.. Last week we had a plan and executed it perfectly. Then the usual crew of critics follow that with "he is a lucky manager etc."

He and his team have executed this plan on numerous occasions where they allow the opposition to have possession ,but frustrate them and then take advantage of opportunities to score and win themselves when it comes their way. Sometimes they also grow into a game and enjoy spells of possession themselves.

It's no fluke it's not luck and it's exactly the sort of plan and style we would use if someone like say Jose Mourinho was our manager.

Well in that case your completely misunderstanding the meaning of controlling a game of football. The only way you can control a game of football if by having the ball. I've never heard of a team controlling the game while being dominated in the possession stakes.

Maybe we stifled Wales to a certain extent but we certainly didn't control the game.

Redo91

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Ireland u17s qualify for the elite round of qualifiers for the UEFA u17s Championship as top seeds after a 3-1 win against Ukraine tonight. Norwich u18s striker Adam Idah scored 7 goals in 3 games bagging a brace against Ukraine, a brace in a 3-0 win against hosts Bulgaria and a hat trick in a 6-0 win against Azerbaijan.

Is Lee O'Connor from United still eligible? I think I saw he played for our under 19s recently so I don't know is it a case he's been bumped up or is he overage now.

TheCitizen

noodler wrote: »

And again.

Typical enough.

Good strawman argument there by the way.

*people contest a ridiculous assertion that we control the game against Wales

You:

"what kind of Celtic fan are you?

" you wanted Hidink? Lol"

"you think we could do better with a different manager?"


You never really address the point in question just go into debate nazi mode and blurt out defences to points no one made.

Would ya look at who's talking, you don't see the irony in your post do you? I clarified my meaning on the use of the word 'control' ages ago but you keep clinging on to it there, you haven't much else going for you.

Bounty Hunter

PTH2009 wrote: »

Did Trapatoni manage another team after Ireland ???

I wonder does he hate us all

Apparently he coached The Vatican City after Ireland!

TheCitizen

Redo91 wrote: »

Well in that case your completely misunderstanding the meaning of controlling a game of football. The only way you can control a game of football if by having the ball. I've never heard of a team controlling the game while being dominated in the possession stakes.

Maybe we stifled Wales to a certain extent but we certainly didn't control the game.

I think we executed our plan to perfection and therefore we imposed our plan on the game and it panned out as we wanted it to.


There are different ways of approaching the game. Some managers like Pep want their team to control possession, others like Mourinho or MON or someone like Allardyce are quiet happy to cede possession, frustrate their opponent and then 'control' the game from that point.

TheCitizen

Is the draw on TV today?

Mantis Toboggan

What time is the draw?

TheCitizen

Tyson Fury wrote: »

What time is the draw?

I think it's around 11

Edit;

Got that wrong it's at approximately 1pm.

Cake Man

But by the time they arse around with a detailed description of how the draw works, a summary of how each team got there, introducing former players to do the draw (usually with little to no english), rehearsed discussion with said ex-players on how exiting the whole thing is, ad break, another reminder of how the draw works and a final word from the sponsors....draw will actually take place sometime Wednesday week

dr.kenneth noisewater

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Ireland u17s qualify for the elite round of qualifiers for the UEFA u17s Championship as top seeds after a 3-1 win against Ukraine tonight. Norwich u18s striker Adam Idah scored 7 goals in 3 games bagging a brace against Ukraine, a brace in a 3-0 win against hosts Bulgaria and a hat trick in a 6-0 win against Azerbaijan.

so is that another 4 group qualifier to qualify for the competition?

MojoRisinnnn

Praying for The Swiss or Denmark this afternoon. I know we can thrive against the big teams at times but Croatia and Italy would be far too much for us I feel. COYBIG