Price for Childminder for collecting child?.

Western Pomise

Am in Mayo,(so bare in mind not paying Dublin rates TG)...posted this message on 'regional' thread but this is prob better place.
Basically have a 4 yr old who has been with childminder since 6 mths of age,they get on well together and we are happy with the service,only thing would be we find the minder can be a bit 'money orientated'...for eg if 4 yr old ever misses a day or two for being sick and kept home she will expect the money anyway...have other examples but not time to list them.
We have a new infant who will be going to minder full time like her sibling did in a months time.The 4 yr old will be starting preschool yr in Sept.
It's 30 euro a day to get 4 yr old minded from 8:30 to 4pm,we supply all food,nappies etc.
So basically minder will have infant till 4pm each day and go and collect 4 yr old from preschool each day and mind from around 1pm to 4pm.Its an 8 mile round trip for her to preschool.

My wife has a feeling she will look for 60 euro a day from Sept (30 to mind infant and 30 for collecting/minding 4 yr old)
Several of her friends have said it would be ridiculous of minder to expect full day pay for 4 yr old.
Personally I think 30 euro for infant and 15 euro a day to cover petrol and minding of 4 yr old would be very fair.
Sorry for long winded post.Really appreciate advice from people who have had similiar situations.
We need to have the 'discussion' with the minder soon:)

dori_dormer

She should have a price per hour no? Looks to be 4 euro per hour. So you should only be paying 12 euro for your 4 yr old plus petrol.

If you've known her for so long a quick chat before hand about hours etc should sort it.

Greenmachine

How much would a creche cost out of interest.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

I think minders usually charge less for second child, so €45 sounds about right. Will she be dropping 4 year old to school to, or just collecting? That would be more petrol and minding.

I don't think it is unreasonable for a childminder to expect payment when you don't send child, that is normal.

Maybe you and your partner should decide how much is the max you will pay, or if it is worth paying extra to pay a little more to keep her if she says that she could mind 2 other children full time and make more money.

tinkerbell

You find the childminder "money orientated"? :rolleyes: She's running a business, not a charity. Of course you are expected to pay her if you don't send your child for whatever reason.

lazygal

I think its only fair that you pay when you don't use the service, like when the child is sick. Every minder we looked into had a policy of being paid whenever you're sending or not sending the children in, be it sickness or holidays, but not being paid when the minder takes leave.
I also think that if you're expecting collections, you're probably also expecting the minder to be available to collect the child if they're sick or some other emergency. Most minders don't do a discount just because you've decided you only want to use them for an afternoon after school. When I had mine with a minder in her home, I would have paid the same rate because I needed the minder to be 'on call' and available when the child wasn't going to school during breaks.
I don't get why you think she's money oriented. She's not minding your children as a favour, its a job, and if you don't want to pay what she's looking for you need to let her know so she can decide whether to look for new customers. I might sound harsh but you sound pretty money oriented yourself.

pwurple

Holy majoly you are expecting that woman to run a charity.

Of COURSE she gets paid when the child doesn't show up unexpectedly!

For 5 x 8 mile round trips I think the average rate is ~59 cent per km (mileage should cover petrol, car wear and tear, maintenance etc. you're talking about putting an extra 3,000 km a year on her car wear). 40 miles per week is works out to about 40 euro of mileage.

People around here charge a whole heap more I can tell ya. The collection fee is 20 euro per collection, and that's got a range of about 2 miles.

Ask around locally about the rates,but I think you are getting off lightly tbh.

Western Pomise

pwurple wrote: »

Holy majoly you are expecting that woman to run a charity.

Of COURSE she gets paid when the child doesn't show up unexpectedly!

For 5 x 8 mile round trips I think the average rate is ~59 cent per km (mileage should cover petrol, car wear and tear, maintenance etc. you're talking about putting an extra 3,000 km a year on her car wear). 40 miles per week is works out to about 40 euro of mileage.

People around here charge a whole heap more I can tell ya. The collection fee is 20 euro per collection, and that's got a range of about 2 miles.

Ask around locally about the rates,but I think you are getting off lightly tbh.

Thanks pwurple....again may I emphasise we are in a rural area......for eg most of our friends who have childminders ( not crèches) looking after their kids get charged between 20 and 30 euro a day for first child BUT the minder provides all food.

Western Pomise

tinkerbell wrote: »

You find the childminder "money orientated"? :rolleyes: She's running a business, not a charity. Of course you are expected to pay her if you don't send your child for whatever reason.

Sorry if I phrased that badly...it's hard to explain but while she's a very good minder her personality changes when it comes to payment time every week;)

Western Pomise

Alyson Wonderful Aerosol wrote: »

I think minders usually charge less for second child, so €45 sounds about right. Will she be dropping 4 year old to school to, or just collecting? That would be more petrol and minding.

I don't think it is unreasonable for a childminder to expect payment when you don't send child, that is normal.

Maybe you and your partner should decide how much is the max you will pay, or if it is worth paying extra to pay a little more to keep her if she says that she could mind 2 other children full time and make more money.

She will only be picking up the 4 yr old each day.....I think that thing of second child been half price or even two thirds is only right, thanks rose bush.

Moonbeam

It is very normal for you to pay if you do not send your child.
If the child is sick in play school or needs to be collected will you or the minder be called?
Some minders do not offer a discount for play school at all.

Talk to her and see,I think 45-50 in that case would be good.

Cedrus

I can't comment on the exact costs as I am not in your area or in your family position. However, I think your expectations are exploitative and delusional.

Why would you not not pay for every day contracted? Do you really expect her to lose pay when you don't send your child, when she cannot replace it. Would you accept her saying to you "Johnny wasn't here on friday, so Sean has his place now?" I may be wrong but is there not a limit on the number of children that can be with a childminder. Even if the law I remember wasn't passed, there still is a logical limit.

If there is a limit, how can anyone expect/demand a discount for a second child, the second child would nearly always be be a lossmaker, it would be more cost effective to just take one child at full cost up to their limit.
If they had a tiny for half a day they might fit in a junior infant at lunchtime at a reduced cost but it should not be expected just because it YOUR second.

For pick ups you should definitely be covering her travel costs, best talk to an accountant about that (You and the minder) and also make ABSOLUTELY SURE that her insurance cover this. Google Mark Pollock for one of many references.

Western Pomise wrote: »

Sorry if I phrased that badly...it's hard to explain but while she's a very good minder her personality changes when it comes to payment time every week;)

Probably because she loves her work BUT she's expecting to be shafted.

lazygal

Western Pomise wrote: »

Sorry if I phrased that badly...it's hard to explain but while she's a very good minder her personality changes when it comes to payment time every week;)

Maybe that's because she's losing out when you decide you don't need to pay.

Western Pomise

Cedrus wrote: »

I can't comment on the exact costs as I am not in your area or in your family position. However, I think your expectations are exploitative and delusional.

Why would you not not pay for every day contracted? Do you really expect her to lose pay when you don't send your child, when she cannot replace it. Would you accept her saying to you "Johnny wasn't here on friday, so Sean has his place now?" I may be wrong but is there not a limit on the number of children that can be with a childminder. Even if the law I remember wasn't passed, there still is a logical limit.

If there is a limit, how can anyone expect/demand a discount for a second child, the second child would nearly always be be a lossmaker, it would be more cost effective to just take one child at full cost up to their limit.
If they had a tiny for half a day they might fit in a junior infant at lunchtime at a reduced cost but it should not be expected just because it YOUR second.

For pick ups you should definitely be covering her travel costs, best talk to an accountant about that (You and the minder) and also make ABSOLUTELY SURE that her insurance cover this. Google Mark Pollock for one of many references.


Probably because she loves her work BUT she's expecting to be shafted.

Thanks for your insightful views,in the world of people with young children it is quite normal for the second child to be at a discounted rate,it's called the relationship between the parent and minder for taking several children from the same family.

lazygal

Western Pomise wrote: »

Thanks for your insightful views,in the world of people with young children it is quite normal for the second child to be at a discounted rate,it's called the relationship between the parent and minder for taking several children from the same family.

I also know it's quite normal to pay when you don't use the service. Its also quite normal for minders to expect to be paid extra when they're using their car and petrol to facilitate collections. Sounds like you're just looking for people to tell you getting the child care for as low a cost as possible to suit yourselves is normal too.

Western Pomise

lazygal wrote: »

Maybe that's because she's losing out when you decide you don't need to pay.

I'm sorry if I have come across as not being generous,as actually the opposite would be the case,for eg we would give our minder various gifts throughout the year,esp at Christmas,Easter and during the summer...outside of her pay arrangement,another quick eg,she had several elderly relatives who have passed away in last year,because of this she has had to take 3 to 4 days off each wk of funerals to help organise and attend them...we paid her for the full week each time (even though one of us had to take off work to mind our 4 yr old).

lazygal

Maybe a creche would suit better. While we use a minder we're aware one of the downsides is that sometimes things arise and time off is needed on both sides.

Western Pomise

lazygal wrote: »

I also know it's quite normal to pay when you don't use the service. Its also quite normal for minders to expect to be paid extra when they're using their car and petrol to facilitate collections. Sounds like you're just looking for people to tell you getting the child care for as low a cost as possible to suit yourselves is normal too.

That depends on each individual arrangement between the minder and parents,with our minder all was agreed at outset,have absolutely no issue with covering petrol costs,wear and tear etc...if you read my OP carefully you would see that I am only trying to get a feel from other parents in similiar positions as to what's fair and realistic (for both parties) to expect from the new arrangement with the infant on board:)

Qualitymark

Maybe it would be less emotionally straining to set up a weekly standing order for an agreed wage?

Western Pomise

lazygal wrote: »

Maybe a creche would suit better. While we use a minder we're aware one of the downsides is that sometimes things arise and time off is needed on both sides.

Tbh we prefer a minder and will stick with our current lady as long as 'the discussion' goes ok:)

ncmc

I think €15 sounds a bit low for the second child. As others have said, having your 4 year old may prevent her from taking another child full time, so in a way you have to compensate for that. I would think €20 for the four year old sounds like a fair price.

When you have the discussion with her, make sure you discuss what the arrangements will be if the child is off school for some reason, school holidays etc. Will your childminder be taking the 4 year old full time those days? If so, it's probably only fair that she is paid full price those days. I know some child minders offer a discount for a second child, but to be fair, your child minder is very reasonably priced, I don't think it's fair to expect much discount on an already low price.

As the others have said, it's common practise to pay for days the child is not there e.g. holidays and sick days, it's not her fault your child is sick so why should she be out of pocket.

I think it's important with a childminder to get all this sorted before the child starts, also it might be no harm to stick it all in an email so you have a copy of the agreement. I think both parties are probably happier when it's all clearly laid out in advance.

How Strange

I also think €15 is too low. €20 sounds more fair. What happens out of term? Will your son be going for full days? In that case you should also agree an out of term rate. Similarly for the days he's sick and can't go to play school.

By the way the sibling discount in crèches is 10%. You're expecting a 50% discount. Remember the childminder has overheads in her own home to cover. I'm sure she has the lights and heating on a lot in the winter.

Neyite

Western Pomise wrote: »

Sorry if I phrased that badly...it's hard to explain but while she's a very good minder her personality changes when it comes to payment time every week;)

That sounds like she braces herself for money conversations. Maybe she's been stung by previous parents on payment, or even yourselves?

You paid her for her chosen days off, and you shouldn't have. So now she'll expect it when she needs the next day off. Why not ring around for a couple of quotes in your area? If you got about 5 quotes, you'd get an idea of what the local average is, then put it to her.

The new baby might be an opportunity to formalise payment agreements on days that she takes off or that the children are out sick.

Elliottsmum79

Qualitymark wrote: »

Maybe it would be less emotionally straining to set up a weekly standing order for an agreed wage?

Think this point is really important and has been overlooked. If you, the parents are paying her cash say, each Friday, each week is effectively/potentially viewed as a new round of wage negotiations by your minder. She may feel "at your mercy" even if that was never your intention ( I'm sure it wasn't).

Not a nice position for her to be in and not good for your overall relationship. Far better to pay by S.O or by a fixed weekly amount, unless there is a big change ( pre-agreed holidays etc) by either party.

Sounds like you have a good minder, your child is happy. Great starting point. I think an extra €25 per day, depending on distance traveled would be reasonable. Have an open honest conversation. Ask her if she feels happy with the current arrangement? Set the agreement and expectations so they are clear for all. See if you can reach a good compromise re the new rate, that keeps you both happy. Address any underlying issues now-any simmering resentments will just explode in the long run. Best to chat it all out now, as you make arrangements for your second child. You both need to be happy for this to work out for you all. Best of luck.