Nissan Leaf

RainInSummer

Argh, I'm up on blocks.

Car conked out yesterday and the Nissan service guy called out and got it going by resetting the DTCs.

I got home and plugged it in and it charged from 30% to 70% and then just stopped charging.

I got in this morning and it won't start again. So I had the ODBII dongle handy and got the attached screenshot from it.

I guess we're off to Nissan for an inspection but has anyone seen these errors before?
Error message on startup on the drivers display is "service EV system no power".

Cheers.


Edit: getting an error when attaching a screenshot. Good old boards, nothing changes.

Error codes.
P31E7 000B Restart Inhibition EVC-310

P0AA6 1A08 Hybrid Batt Volt Sys Isolation EVC-157

fael

RainInSummer wrote: »

Argh, I'm up on blocks.

Car conked out yesterday and the Nissan service guy called out and got it going by resetting the DTCs.

I got home and plugged it in and it charged from 30% to 70% and then just stopped charging.

I got in this morning and it won't start again. So I had the ODBII dongle handy and got the attached screenshot from it.

I guess we're off to Nissan for an inspection but has anyone seen these errors before?
Error message on startup on the drivers display is "service EV system no power".

Cheers.


Edit: getting an error when attaching a screenshot. Good old boards, nothing changes.

What Leaf is it? Haven't seen that before.

fael

slave1 wrote: »

I agree, I've read on other forums of Leaf's going 12v dead during the severe lockdowns.
I trickled my Leaf 12v weekly throughout lockdown especially in the cold weather and no issues

Yeah, my 12v died during the lockdown as well. Not sure after how long but I think after 2 weeks or so. I think it only drains the 12v if the car is plugged in to a charger.
Mine was plugged into my Zappi and just sat there for a few months. When I wanted to drive it was completely dead. Swapped the 12v battery for another one, reset all the DTCs with LeafSpy and it worked again. The car doesn't charge the 12v unless you switch it on.

Stupid bug, but I suppose generally not an issue. Would have been nice to know about it though. I would have unplugged it from the charger.

the_amazing_raisin

Haven't seen that one but given the car won't charge either I'm going to guess there's a problem with the connection to the high voltage battery

AFAIK the circuit pathways are something like below

Charging
AC plug -> Onboard charger -> HV battery

Driving
HV battery -> Motor controller/regulator -> Motor

If both are failing, and the common factor is the battery, then that's likely the source of the problem

First place I'd check is the connector to the battery, it may be damaged or loosened and should be a fairly simple fix

Hopefully it isn't a connection issue within the pack, if that's the case then the battery has to go back to Nissan for repair or replacement

What version Leaf have you got? Hopefully the battery is still under warranty

RainInSummer

fael wrote: »

What Leaf is it? Haven't seen that before.

MY21 62kWh SVE

Error codes:

P31E7 000B Restart Inhibition EVC-310
P0AA6 1A08 Hybrid Batt Volt Sys Isolation EVC-157

RainInSummer

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Haven't seen that one but given the car won't charge either I'm going to guess there's a problem with the connection to the high voltage battery

AFAIK the circuit pathways are something like below

Charging
AC plug -> Onboard charger -> HV battery

Driving
HV battery -> Motor controller/regulator -> Motor

If both are failing, and the common factor is the battery, then that's likely the source of the problem

First place I'd check is the connector to the battery, it may be damaged or loosened and should be a fairly simple fix

Hopefully it isn't a connection issue within the pack, if that's the case then the battery has to go back to Nissan for repair or replacement

What version Leaf have you got? Hopefully the battery is still under warranty

Cheers,

Only a couple of months old so well in warranty.
From googling the error codes it looks like it's a trip back to Nissan.


P31E7 000B Restart Inhibition EVC-310
P0AA6 1A08 Hybrid Batt Volt Sys Isolation EVC-157

the_amazing_raisin

RainInSummer wrote: »

Cheers,

Only a couple of months old so well in warranty.
From googling the error codes it looks like it's a trip back to Nissan.


P31E7 000B Restart Inhibition EVC-310
P0AA6 1A08 Hybrid Batt Volt Sys Isolation EVC-157

Second one looks like an error part of the DC contactor for the HV battery, perhaps it's failed

Definitely a problem for Nissan to deal with, make sure they give the drivetrain a check once it's fixed

RainInSummer

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Second one looks like an error part of the DC contactor for the HV battery, perhaps it's failed

Definitely a problem for Nissan to deal with, make sure they give the drivetrain a check once it's fixed

Thanks again.

KCross

RainInSummer wrote: »

MY21 62kWh SVE

Error codes:

P31E7 000B Restart Inhibition EVC-310
P0AA6 1A08 Hybrid Batt Volt Sys Isolation EVC-157

Did you check the 12V battery?
If that’s low you’ll get all sorts of random errors.

RainInSummer

KCross wrote: »

Did you check the 12V battery?
If that’s low you’ll get all sorts of random errors.

No. Have a DMM that I might throw on it. Unusual to see it drain in two months though.

RainInSummer

12v battery is 12.6 when off and 14.4 when on. Looks good to me.
It started this time. Hope it's not going to be one of these on again/off again issues that never appears when it's in the dealers.

Gile_na_gile

RainInSummer wrote: »

12v battery is 12.6 when off and 14.4 when on. Looks good to me.
It started this time. Hope it's not going to be one of these on again/off again issues that never appears when it's in the dealers.

Any luck getting this fixed? Sounds like quite a fault for a brand new car, and a pain when you invested in the top spec version.

RainInSummer

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Any luck getting this fixed? Sounds like quite a fault for a brand new car, and a pain when you invested in the top spec version.

So it hasn't happened since. First occurred on Saturday, which was cleared by the Nissan guy. Then on Sunday by me.

If it does happen again it's straight back to the shop.

the 12 th man

Does anybody know the approximate cost of a charge for a Leaf on ordinary and night rate electricity?,and is it half that price charging from 50% or is it more expensive to charge from 0%?

the_amazing_raisin

the 12 th man wrote: »

Does anybody know the approximate cost of a charge for a Leaf on ordinary and night rate electricity?,and is it half that price charging from 50% or is it more expensive to charge from 0%?

There's a lot of factors there, including how big the battery on the Leaf is but I'll try to break it down

You buy electricity per kWh, and the battery is filled with kWh's

So to answer your second question, charging from 50% to full costs half as much as charging from 0% to full

Assuming you have a 40kWh Leaf, this will probably use 44kWh to fill due to losses in the charger

If you're on the Energia EV plan which is pretty much the cheapest night rate, here's the costs of charging from 0% to 100%

Day - €0.1818/kWh * 44kWh = €8.00
Night - €0.0523/kWh * 44kWh = €2.30
24 Hour - €0.1418/kWh * 44kWh = €6.23

To be honest, the cost of a fill isn't the best way to measure EV costs since you would very rarely let the battery get close to 0% and probably charge when it's below 30%, or 50% if you're being paranoid

If you want a more accurate picture, it's best to use consumption and mileage

For example
Monthly driving - 1000km
Efficiency of car (inc losses) - 17.6kWh/100km
Cost of electricity - €0.0523/kWh

Monthly cost
(17.6kWh/100km * 1000km) * €0.0523/kWh
(17.6 * 10) * €0.0523/kWh
176kWh * €0.0523/kWh = €9.20 per month

the 12 th man

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

There's a lot of factors there, including how big the battery on the Leaf is but I'll try to break it down

You buy electricity per kWh, and the battery is filled with kWh's

So to answer your second question, charging from 50% to full costs half as much as charging from 0% to full

Assuming you have a 40kWh Leaf, this will probably use 44kWh to fill due to losses in the charger

If you're on the Energia EV plan which is pretty much the cheapest night rate, here's the costs of charging from 0% to 100%

Day - €0.1818/kWh * 44kWh = €8.00
Night - €0.0523/kWh * 44kWh = €2.30
24 Hour - €0.1418/kWh * 44kWh = €6.23

To be honest, the cost of a fill isn't the best way to measure EV costs since you would very rarely let the battery get close to 0% and probably charge when it's below 30%, or 50% if you're being paranoid

If you want a more accurate picture, it's best to use consumption and mileage

For example
Monthly driving - 1000km
Efficiency of car (inc losses) - 17.6kWh/100km
Cost of electricity - €0.0523/kWh

Monthly cost
(17.6kWh/100km * 1000km) * €0.0523/kWh
(17.6 * 10) * €0.0523/kWh
176kWh * €0.0523/kWh = €9.20 per month

Was looking at the 62 Kwh so I'll just add 50%?

the_amazing_raisin

the 12 th man wrote: »

Was looking at the 62 Kwh so I'll just add 50%?

Basically yes, although I would recommend looking at the mileage method I showed at the bottom for 3 reasons

1 - Unless you are using public chargers, you don't pay for electricity at the time of use, you get billed every 2 months. That's why working out the monthly, or annual cost is better

2 - If you had a petrol tap on the side of your house, you wouldn't wait until the car was nearly empty to fill it, you'd top it up every so often becuase it's so convenient. Same logic applies to EVs, you're probably not going to wait until the battery is below 10% to charger (this is actually bad for the battery), you'll charge it when it's convenient

3 - Cars with bigger batteries get charged less often. If you have 50% more battery capacity, you'll only charge 2/3rds the amount of times. So even though an individual charge costs more, it balances out because you aren't charging as much

The only time I'd be looking at the cost of an individual charge is when I'm fast charging and I would rarely charge the car to over 75% at a fast charger

This is because fast charging costs a lot more (~30c/kWh) so I'm only going to use the bare minimum to get me where I'm going

Back to my petrol stations comparison, if there was a petrol station that charged €10 per litre, you'd try to avoid it if possible and if you did stop there, you'd only get just enough petrol to get to the cheaper stations

slave1

the 12 th man wrote: »

Was looking at the 62 Kwh so I'll just add 50%?

Think long and hard on a L62, there are plenty of better EVs out there in same price bracket

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

Think long and hard on a L62, there are plenty of better EVs out there in same price bracket

I would tend to agree with you on this, while the Leaf62 is a grand car, but it is basically the same car underneath as the 2011 Leaf, just with a different battery

@12th Man, is there a particular reason why you're looking at the Leaf62? If it's down to a long journey which requires a rapid charge?

If that's the case then you should know the Leaf doesn't actively cool the battery when charging, so if the battery heats up too much during charging then it'll drop the charging speed significantly to prevent the battery getting damaged

This is an issue called Rapidgating, all Leafs are vulnerable to this but the bigger battery is worst because it'll take a lot longer to charge

As slave1 said there are comparable EVs in that price bracket which are more advanced and better suited to long journeys

One positive with the Leaf is that it seems a lot easier to find deals versus other EVs if you're willing to shop around

I think if you can get a Leaf40 or 62 at the right price then it's a great car. I've had a Leaf24 for 3 years now and it's never missed a beat. Moved on to an ID.4 and my wife has taken the Leaf and she's now another EV convert

the 12 th man

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I would tend to agree with you on this, while the Leaf62 is a grand car, but it is basically the same car underneath as the 2011 Leaf, just with a different battery

@12th Man, is there a particular reason why you're looking at the Leaf62? If it's down to a long journey which requires a rapid charge?

If that's the case then you should know the Leaf doesn't actively cool the battery when charging, so if the battery heats up too much during charging then it'll drop the charging speed significantly to prevent the battery getting damaged

This is an issue called Rapidgating, all Leafs are vulnerable to this but the bigger battery is worst because it'll take a lot longer to charge

As slave1 said there are comparable EVs in that price bracket which are more advanced and better suited to long journeys

One positive with the Leaf is that it seems a lot easier to find deals versus other EVs if you're willing to shop around

I think if you can get a Leaf40 or 62 at the right price then it's a great car. I've had a Leaf24 for 3 years now and it's never missed a beat. Moved on to an ID.4 and my wife has taken the Leaf and she's now another EV convert

Early days,just looking around,thanks anyhow.

the_amazing_raisin

the 12 th man wrote: »

Early days,just looking around,thanks anyhow.

No worries, it's a bit of a transition going from petrol to an EV but there's plenty of folks here who have made the jump and are happy to answer any questions

slave1

Rapidgate only impacts L40 and L62

graememk

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

2 - If you had a petrol tap on the side of your house, you wouldn't wait until the car was nearly empty to fill it, you'd top it up every so often becuase it's so convenient. Same logic applies to EVs, you're probably not going to wait until the battery is below 10% to charger (this is actually bad for the battery), you'll charge it when it's convenient

I'd have to argue, if you had a petrol pump at your house you'd drive it until the light comes on..

Source: have a tank for the tractors, only time we fill up before the light comes on is when we have a full day on the next day/current day!

But yeah with an ev, and never having to stand and hold the pump.. (when did they take out the pins to lock the handle?) And just plug in at night.. so much easier.

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

Rapidgate only impacts L40 and L62

True, but they're the ones you'd probably pick if you were doing regular long journeys

the_amazing_raisin

graememk wrote: »

I'd have to argue, if you had a petrol pump at your house you'd drive it until the light comes on..

Source: have a tank for the tractors, only time we fill up before the light comes on is when we have a full day on the next day/current day!

But yeah with an ev, and never having to stand and hold the pump.. (when did they take out the pins to lock the handle?) And just plug in at night.. so much easier.

Ah yeah I remember those things, I think some petrol stations still have them. Although since I haven't used a petrol pump since 2018 I could be wrong

I guess some eeejit must have sprayed petrol everywhere and they got deemed a safety hazard

As you said, another point for the EVs, plug in and walk away

kennethsmyth

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

There's a lot of factors there, including how big the battery on the Leaf is but I'll try to break it down

You buy electricity per kWh, and the battery is filled with kWh's

So to answer your second question, charging from 50% to full costs half as much as charging from 0% to full

Assuming you have a 40kWh Leaf, this will probably use 44kWh to fill due to losses in the charger

If you're on the Energia EV plan which is pretty much the cheapest night rate, here's the costs of charging from 0% to 100%

Day - €0.1818/kWh * 44kWh = €8.00
Night - €0.0523/kWh * 44kWh = €2.30
24 Hour - €0.1418/kWh * 44kWh = €6.23

To be honest, the cost of a fill isn't the best way to measure EV costs since you would very rarely let the battery get close to 0% and probably charge when it's below 30%, or 50% if you're being paranoid

If you want a more accurate picture, it's best to use consumption and mileage

For example
Monthly driving - 1000km
Efficiency of car (inc losses) - 17.6kWh/100km
Cost of electricity - €0.0523/kWh

Monthly cost
(17.6kWh/100km * 1000km) * €0.0523/kWh
(17.6 * 10) * €0.0523/kWh
176kWh * €0.0523/kWh = €9.20 per month

I'd recalculate that instead of 44kwh down to 36.74kwh.

The actual 100% is approx 36.5kwh in the battery but 3.1kwh is after 0%(as per car) thus only allowing for 33.4kwh add 10% to allow for charging wastage and you have 36.74kwh for 0% to 100%

My day rate = 15.55 cents
My night rate = 7.46 cents and you will use night rate.

Therefore
0% to 100% = €2.74 for 36.74kwh and approx 185kms at 180wh/km
20% to 80% = €1.64 for 22.04kwh and approx 122kms at 180wh/km
10% to 90% = €2.19 for 29.39kwh and approx 163kms at 180wh/km

This is what I am costing on my L40 that I have had since 2018 and 62,000 kms on it.

You can tell at 180wh (I do a mix of more motorway than backroad) depends on how you drive. You can do better or worse.

kennethsmyth

slave1 wrote: »

Rapidgate only impacts L40 and L62

It impacts the L40 on the third charge especially if you drive fast or have fast (dc) charged past 80% on the previous charges as it heats up the battery - much less effect on L62 as less charges needed and battery seems to be less affected by driving faster.

the_amazing_raisin

kennethsmyth wrote: »

It impacts the L40 on the third charge especially if you drive fast or have fast (dc) charged past 80% on the previous charges as it heats up the battery - much less effect on L62 as less charges needed and battery seems to be less affected by driving faster.

It seems hit and miss, I remember seeing Bjorn do a couple of road trips in the Leaf62. First one was summer and to be fair the Leaf managed something like 4 or 5 rapid charges across 2 days without overheating

Second trip however it rapidgated after the first charge despite it being winter and -15C outside

Laviski

kennethsmyth wrote: »

It impacts the L40 on the third charge especially if you drive fast or have fast (dc) charged past 80% on the previous charges as it heats up the battery - much less effect on L62 as less charges needed and battery seems to be less affected by driving faster.

I agree with this,
Mainly my leaf is city driving but have done two 450km trips last year where each done on same day, I had no rapidgate issues, battery temp never went higher than 2/3
I'd imagine rapidgate would come into effect if doing 600 km trips and higher. In Ireland would many people be doing that..?
Imo L40 is a city car and should be viewed as such when buying. It's perfect for my needs and for anyone else with short commutes. L60 I don't see value in it then and even more so now where there are better cars in same price range.

If there was one thing I could change on the leaf, I would have a 22kw onboard charger, which made the Renault very tempting at decision time. I know others would probably replace the Chad emo or have active cooling better drivetrain etc. But as I said the car is almost perfect for my needs, would just like a higher ac on board charger.

the_amazing_raisin

kennethsmyth wrote: »

I'd recalculate that instead of 44kwh down to 36.74kwh.

The actual 100% is approx 36.5kwh in the battery but 3.1kwh is after 0%(as per car) thus only allowing for 33.4kwh add 10% to allow for charging wastage and you have 36.74kwh for 0% to 100%

My day rate = 15.55 cents
My night rate = 7.46 cents and you will use night rate.

Therefore
0% to 100% = €2.74 for 36.74kwh and approx 185kms at 180wh/km
20% to 80% = €1.64 for 22.04kwh and approx 122kms at 180wh/km
10% to 90% = €2.19 for 29.39kwh and approx 163kms at 180wh/km

This is what I am costing on my L40 that I have had since 2018 and 62,000 kms on it.

You can tell at 180wh (I do a mix of more motorway than backroad) depends on how you drive. You can do better or worse.

Thanks, I couldn't remember the net capacity of the Leaf, I knew it was less than 40kWh but wasn't sure the exact number

I think we both got the main point across is that fuel is cheap for an EV