Nissan Leaf

Soarer

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Sometimes takes two hours to balance.
How much electricity did you use?

The lights were gone off by 07:45, so I'm assuming she was done and dusted by then.

As for the leccy, the display read 36.78kWh last night and 55.90kWh this morning. So basic maths would indicate it took 19.12kWh from 0-100%.

As for percentages....
If you use the 24kWh as the original capacity, and take 19.12% as the new capacity, she's after losing 20.33% of capacity.
If you use 22kWh as the usable capacity of the original battery (I think), she's lost 13.09% of capacity.

Considering she's a 1st gen with just short of 150k kms on her, it ain't too bad for ?6k.

grogi

Soarer wrote: »

As for percentages....
If you use the 24kWh as the original capacity, and take 19.12% as the new capacity, she's after losing 20.33% of capacity.
If you use 22kWh as the usable capacity of the original battery (I think), she's lost 13.09% of capacity.

Considering she's a 1st gen with just short of 150k kms on her, it ain't too bad for ?6k.

Feel free to call in sometime - we'll compare what LeafSpy says.

jamesthepeach

There will be loss between the wall and the car too, so.probably a little more capacity gone too.

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

As for the leccy, the display read 36.78kWh last night and 55.90kWh this morning. So basic maths would indicate it took 19.12kWh from 0-100%.

As for percentages....
If you use the 24kWh as the original capacity, and take 19.12% as the new capacity, she's after losing 20.33% of capacity.
If you use 22kWh as the usable capacity of the original battery (I think), she's lost 13.09% of capacity.

22kWh is the figure to use for a new car.
You will lose about 10% on charger losses so I'd put your usable at about 17.5kWh so you are at about 80%


Can you remind us again, have you already lost a capacity bar? The first one goes at 85% and then every 6.25% after that apparently.

ELM327

The first bar goes at 85% no?

Soarer

KCross wrote: »

22kWh is the figure to use for a new car.
You will lose about 10% on charger losses so I'd put your usable at about 17.5kWh so you are at about 80%


Can you remind us again, have you already lost a capacity bar? The first one goes at 85% and then every 6.25% after that apparently.

Yeah, I've 2 gone. Seem to remember the seller saying the second one went back in November or something.

She's used as a little workhorse for all our short trips. So as long as I have minimum of 40km range, which is the longest return trip I do every week without passing a chargepoint, she'll serve her purpose.

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

Yeah, I've 2 gone.

ok, you are probably closer to 78% so.
It would be good to see what LeafSpy says.

Soarer

KCross wrote: »

ok, you are probably closer to 78% so.
It would be good to see what LeafSpy says.

I hear ya.

I bought an OBD11 yoke for the Prius, that's also apparently suitable for the Leaf. But it's not compatible with iOS/LeafSpy.

So I'm on the hunt for one that'll tick all the boxes.

geo15

Hi all, looking for a little advice from you EV experts, considering a 2012 Leaf as a second car, primarily used for school runs, weekend runs, typically shorter trips but always ends up being a lot of those during the week, talking 200km in a week. Just thinking about battery degradation etc is this something to worry about for that sort of driving? Any advice welcome. Limited in terms of budget so while I would like to go up the years don't think the bank manager will allow it !

isnottheword

@geo15: If that 200km is spread evenly over the week, then you should get the cheapest Leaf going (within reason - I wouldn't be a fan of the base model (XE / Visia). I think some of the earlier ones didn't even have the option of fast charging.

At around 10K KM a year, you'd also need to do the maths against an efficient petrol run around. You may not be doing enough mileage in the Leaf to really get the best return on your outlay by comparison. Run the numbers on both and see how it works out.

KCross

geo15 wrote: »

Hi all, looking for a little advice from you EV experts, considering a 2012 Leaf as a second car, primarily used for school runs, weekend runs, typically shorter trips but always ends up being a lot of those during the week, talking 200km in a week. Just thinking about battery degradation etc is this something to worry about for that sort of driving? Any advice welcome. Limited in terms of budget so while I would like to go up the years don't think the bank manager will allow it !

I'd echo @isnottheword's comments.

You will probably be looking at €6k+ for a 2012 Leaf. Add on the one off cost of the charge point for your house so another €650ish.

A cheap 1L petrol for €2k might be a better bet for the kind of mileage you are doing. It will take a long time to make back the €4000 in purchase costs!


To turn it on its head.... what kind of mileage is the main car doing. Maybe thats the one you should look at?

grogi

KCross wrote: »

I'd echo @isnottheword's comments.

You will probably be looking at €6k+ for a 2012 Leaf. Add on the one off cost of the charge point for your house so another €650ish.

A cheap 1L petrol for €2k might be a better bet for the kind of mileage you are doing. It will take a long time to make back the €4000 in purchase costs!

You're talking about the petrol cost only. There are additional savings to have at motortax and servicing costs.. EV insurance should be cheaper as well.

KCross

grogi wrote: »

You're talking about the petrol cost only. There are additional savings to have at motortax and servicing costs.. EV insurance should be cheaper as well.

I wasn't specific about fuel. I just said it would take a long time to make back the €4k... which it will.

The maintenance on a 1L petrol won't be high (generally speaking). Neither will tax or insurance.

For tax (€160 diff) and fuel for 10k km/yr it would save about €1k/yr. Thats 4yrs to break even. If the Op plans to keep the Leaf well beyond that and is willing and able to come up with the readies now then by all means go Leaf.... the Leaf would be a far superior car to drive than a 1L petrol.... budget being tight was mentioned though.

grogi

KCross wrote: »

I wasn't specific about fuel. I just said it would take a long time to make back the €4k... which it will.

The maintenance on a 1L petrol won't be high (generally speaking). Neither will tax or insurance.

A small engine petrol car to cost 2k you're looking at 2004 and older. Maintenance on a car like that will be higher than the 2012 Leaf. While Leaf will cost yearly €300, a banger will easily double that. Tax will be higher as well, at least couple of hundreds a year. Insuring it is not a piece of cake either. The ICE will cost around €800/year more to keep on the road.

Now fuel alone - 10kkm in efficient ICE (6l/100km) will cost around €800 again. The same in Leaf costs €120 (15kWh/100km @ €0.08/kWh).

When summed up, Leaf gives €1280 of savings a year. Does this cover the bigger depreciation of the EV?

IMHO if the range of Leaf works and there are no other factors preventing from driving a Leaf - that is much more economical option.

isnottheword

Possibly grogi - he has to do that maths on it. Remember, with less mileage comes less servicing/repairs also on the petrol. He has to do the calcs on both and see which comes out on top.

geo15

Thanks for the posts, situation is at present we have 2 X 05 cars, intend replacing the 1.6 litre Passat(petrol) on its last legs with high mileage. Spent a lot of money servicing last year and cant put any more into it. Would have always used this for longer (infrequent) trips so annual mileage probably higher than the 10k I stated, really is the running costs that are the killer. With regard depreciation on whatever we buy, likely to hang onto this car for 5+ years anyway (or until I can afford the Tesla

Soarer

If you get a Leaf, you'll probably find yereselves using it a lot more than your other 05 car. So that'll save fuel and maybe delay maintenance on that car too!

goz83

As above. Our Leaf is used as the main car and our 7 seater sees much less use than before. If the wife has the Leaf, I will often wait for her to bring it home before I drive anywhere. And that's not me being a cheapskate. Since going electric, it feels wrong to drive the ICE.

Soarer

Well, running my yoke to flat and back up to 100% hasn't really done anything to the GoM. If anything, it's made it more mental!
Just pulled in to a FCP there with 10km showing on the GoM. Started the charge, and it said the battery has 24% charge left!

It really is guess work.

Orebro

Soarer wrote: »

Well, running my yoke to flat and back up to 100% hasn't really done anything to the GoM. If anything, it's made it more mental!
Just pulled in to a FCP there with 10km showing on the GoM. Started the charge, and it said the battery has 24% charge left!

It really is guess work.

Would Leafspy be any use? You'd have to leave it connected all the time of course, but does it give a percentage read out?

Soarer

Orebro wrote: »

Would Leafspy be any use? You'd have to leave it connected all the time of course, but does it give a percentage read out?

It would, but I can't seem to find an OBDII dongle that'll work with both the Gen 1 Leaf and my iphone.

Seem to remember KCross(?) mentioning something about a meter that could be connected to the OBDII port?

jamesthepeach

Soarer wrote: »

Well, running my yoke to flat and back up to 100% hasn't really done anything to the GoM. If anything, it's made it more mental!
Just pulled in to a FCP there with 10km showing on the GoM. Started the charge, and it said the battery has 24% charge left!

It really is guess work.

That's exactly the same behaviour phone batteries display when they are shot.
But sudden jumps in capacity reporting.
Eh goes steadily from 100% to 30% and then jumps very quickly to 10% and quickly again to 0%

Can do the same on the way up.

goz83

jamesthepeach wrote: »

That's exactly the same behaviour phone batteries display when they are shot.
But sudden jumps in capacity reporting.
Eh goes steadily from 100% to 30% and then jumps very quickly to 10% and quickly again to 0%

Can do the same on the way up.

The 1st Gen batteries are prone to this. The 1.5 Gen are a more robust battery. On the up side, the range is more than adequate for Soarer, but the GoM can't be trusted.

Soarer

goz83 wrote: »

The 1st Gen batteries are prone to this. The 1.5 Gen are a more robust battery. On the up side, the range is more than adequate for Soarer, but the GoM can't be trusted.

Too right!

Fully charged yesterday morning, and the GoM told me I had 93km range.
Fully charged this morning, it told me I had 112kms!

Tis grand though. I don't be going anywhere like.

ELM327

I think any GOM from a leaf can not be trusted tbh!

zilog_jones

Soarer wrote: »

Seem to remember KCross(?) mentioning something about a meter that could be connected to the OBDII port?

Do you mean a ScanGauge? https://www.scangauge.com
Might be handy for you, seeing that IIRC you can't normally see the SOC on the early Leafs? They're available on Amazon UK, not cheap though!

@Soarer: I think it would be good to post your experience of buying a used early Leaf in a separate thread. I think it's an interesting topic, but very difficult to find information scattered through these very long general threads.

grogi

zilog_jones wrote: »

Do you mean a ScanGauge? https://www.scangauge.com
Might be handy for you, seeing that IIRC you can't normally see the SOC on the early Leafs? They're available on Amazon UK, not cheap though!

@Soarer: I think it would be good to post your experience of buying a used early Leaf in a separate thread. I think it's an interesting topic, but very difficult to find information scattered through these very long general threads.

Those are designed for ICE cars and typically measure things like current and average consumption. Not really useful to check the SOC of Leaf, which would requires different commands on the bus.

zilog_jones

I think you can display whatever you want with them once you know the PIDs (I'm sure someone has posted a list for the Leaf somewhere online). Lots of Prius owners use them to display SOC and other stuff you don't see through the instrument cluster.

Soarer

zilog_jones wrote: »

@Soarer: I think it would be good to post your experience of buying a used early Leaf in a separate thread. I think it's an interesting topic, but very difficult to find information scattered through these very long general threads.

Wouldn't have any problem with that. But I really don't think anyone would be interested in the inane mumblings of a middle-aged man trying to get to grips of the EV world.

I'm free to answer any questions someone may have though.

The GOM in the current gen Leaf is far more accurate but the most important thing is the battery % indicator, you get familiar with the range at certain speeds and weather conditions per % of charge so it's very useful.

For original Leaf owners LeafSpy gives that information.