Nissan Leaf

Soarer

Morning all.

Had a brainwave this morning, and remember that I'd installed Google Playstore on the young fella's Kindle Fire. So I download Leaf Spy Lite, plugged in the OBDII dongle from the Prius, and it worked!
I've attached a photo of the LeafSpy screen, and I'm wondering if people can tell me what's what?

I think the SOH is battery capacity, and SOC is the current charge.

If that's right, I don't know how the SOC is only 95% as it was plugged in overnight and should be full.

Finally, Leaf Spy Pro is ?13. Is there anything extra that I'd need to justify the ?13? Or is the Lite version plenty for what I need/understand?

KCross

The SOC figure doesn't go to 100%. There is a few % "hidden".

The SOH is the state of health and at 75% it confirms the 2 bar loss.

The Ahr figure is also a good indication. A new Leaf would be about 65Ahr's.

The 546 is the number of rapid charges and the number next to that is the slow charges.

Soarer

Cheers lad.

At what SOH should I expect the next bar going? Around 72%?

Can never remember what each bar indicates. Think the first one is 12.5%, and each one after that is 5.5% or something?

KCross

15 and 6.25 I think.

NIMAN

If I was to buy a Leaf (likely a 2014) for this type of driving:

- 95% of the time it will be charged at home
- longest commute 80km, 40 each way with no charging at work
- short school runs, trips to shop, visiting family etc, all between 10km -> 20km (max per day likely 40km total)

Could I pass on paying extra for a 6.6k charger, a dedicated charge point install and just work off a granny cable?

isnottheword

NIMAN wrote: »

Could I pass on paying extra for a 6.6k charger, a dedicated charge point install and just work off a granny cable?

It's totally subjective.

On the 6.6kW OBC, I wouldn't buy a 2nd hand Leaf without it. Some people recognise the value in it - others don't. That said, it also depends upon the nature of your usage, what time you will spend charging via SCP rather than FCP, etc. As regards 'paying extra', there's no doubt if you buy new, it's damned expensive. However, if you buy second hand, it's not costing that much extra - it makes the car more saleable perhaps - and sometimes, I've come across listings where the seller didn't even list the feature OR wasn't aware of the feature (the latter being the case with my Leaf). So...it's not necessarily more expensive (or if it is, its negligible). It's more the case that it makes the hunt for a car on the market with this feature harder - as there are not that many of them around.

What if you arrive home - have very little 'juice' left in the battery and need to go back out again asap? With a trickle charge, that's going to be problematic. With a 3.3kW charge, it will still take some time. With a 6.6kW, it halves the time.

On the Dedicated Charge Point, this can be done on the cheap. If you bide your time, you can pick one up on the used market (and it may be that it's never been used before). Other than that, any sparks can install. It's akin to having an outside socket installed (in terms of the body of work involved for an electrician...comparatively ). Check ebay listings and the classifieds section of speakev. I picked up a new 32AMP unit via speakev advert for £150. Didn't cost me any more than £50 to install. The unit is untethered - so can be used into the future - if I change to a different type of EV.

On the granny cable, it's up to you - but I wouldn't. I'd go so far as to say that if the car comes with a granny cable, you should flog it on. Those damn things are expensive - you can buy plenty with the price of a granny cable. Meanwhile, it takes forever to charge a car with one.
People have different opinions on this - so totally up to yourself. Some say it's great to have as a failsafe. My view is that if you plan your trips, then you will never get into that situation in the first instance. Otherwise, if you do get into that situation, you can fall back on a flatbed (either via warranty or your insurance policy).

NIMAN

Forgot to add that there is a 2nd ICE car available too.

KCross

NIMAN wrote: »

If I was to buy a Leaf (likely a 2014) for this type of driving:

- 95% of the time it will be charged at home
- longest commute 80km, 40 each way with no charging at work
- short school runs, trips to shop, visiting family etc, all between 10km -> 20km (max per day likely 40km total)

Could I pass on paying extra for a 6.6k charger, a dedicated charge point install and just work off a granny cable?

You won't be able to fully utilise night rate electricity making it more expensive to charge.

Also, do you have an outdoor socket in the appropriate location to plug in the granny cable? If you have to go to the expense of putting in a socket you might as well put in a wall mount EVSE.

Using extension leads or running the cable through windows/letterboxes etc is messy.

However, to answer your question, you could survive on the granny cable just as long as you are aware of the limitations and can live with those.

jamesthepeach

NIMAN wrote: »

If I was to buy a Leaf (likely a 2014) for this type of driving:

- 95% of the time it will be charged at home
- longest commute 80km, 40 each way with no charging at work
- short school runs, trips to shop, visiting family etc, all between 10km -> 20km (max per day likely 40km total)

Could I pass on paying extra for a 6.6k charger, a dedicated charge point install and just work off a granny cable?

I only use the granny cable in an outside socket.
I know plenty doing the same . It's not worth it to me to get a bigger charger installed. Haven't had any issues at all. I never use the on street chargers either. Anyway the ones I have passed are mostly occupied or iced. It's rare enough to see a vacant one.
You will easily get enough juice into your car during night rate for your longest commute there and back using the granny charger.

The 6.6 may be faster but do you actually need faster if the 3.3 is plenty for your use.

KCross

jamesthepeach wrote: »

You will easily get enough juice into your car during night rate for your longest commute there and back using the granny charger.

How did you calculate that? I don't think he will easily get it all on night rate.

You will get 2kWh's into the car every hour using the granny charger. Thats 18kWh's max on night rate and that would be assuming that the car isn't required until after 9am every weekday during summer hours.

His longest commute is 80km and some running about after that so thats practically 100% of the cars capacity (22kWh's).

However, its not a deal breaker, the majority is still on night rate so the marginal difference won't pay for the charge point. Its a convenience thing really. The wall mount EVSE is just easier, neater, faster, more efficient... but of course you have to pay for it!

jamesthepeach

KCross wrote: »

How did you calculate that? I don't think he will easily get it all on night rate.

You will get 2kWh's into the car every hour using the granny charger. Thats 18kWh's max on night rate and that would be assuming that the car isn't required until after 9am every weekday during summer hours.

His longest commute is 80km and some running about after that so thats practically 100% of the cars capacity (22kWh's).

However, its not a deal breaker, the majority is still on night rate so the marginal difference won't pay for the charge point. Its a convenience thing really. The wall mount EVSE is just easier, neater, faster, more efficient... but of course you have to pay for it!

I don't know the ins and out but here is an example from yesterday.

Day before yesterday, I had 16% charge left. Charge timer is midnight to 9am. So it came on at midnight.
I plugged it out at and got on the road at 7:30am. Can't remember the % it was at when I plugged it out.

I did 92km total yesterday and I drive just like I drive any car. No special treatment , and the car was at 25% when I got home. If I wasn't bootin it down the motorway I probably would have had a lot more left after the trip.

So 80km overnight on the granny cable is easily done.

Granny cable is plugged into an outside socket and in a box on the wall. All that's coming out of it is the charge cable. And I can take it out and with me if I need it. We'll the wife can . I don't drive it that much.

And I thought he said max trip would be 80km.
Does the granny charger not do more than 2kw and hour?

Also you say that a full 22kwh would only get him 80km plus a little running around? Surely more than than that for a full 22kw too?

Whay does everyone else get for their full 22kwhs?

For.that matter how many keep does it take everyone else to do 80km?

goz83

It would be cutting it very fine to rely on the granny charger only

jamesthepeach

I just checked the average we get is .14 kWh/km. I'm pretty sure my driving like a lunatic is pushing that average up too.

That's 11.2 kw for 80km.

At the charging rate of 2kw per hour from the granny charger someone suggested​, which I think is too low a rate tbh, that 5.5 hours on the granny charger. So that 11pm to 4:30 am or midnight to 5:30am depending on what time of year if you are on night rate. Any time after that is additional Kms for you. You'll lose a few km using heater or aircon on your drive too.

Why not just do the granny charger and if it works for you, then leave it and if not spend the extra money on a bigger charger and installation? That would be the best option.

NIMAN

Thanks for all the feedback folks.

Another question, is the rate of charging decided by the OBC or the method of supply? In other words, if I buy a 3.3 car would a charge point charge the car faster than the granny cable or the same, and you're just paying for convenience?

goz83

NIMAN wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback folks.

Another question, is the rate of charging decided by the OBC or the method of supply? In other words, if I buy a 3.3 car would a charge point charge the car faster than the granny cable or the same, and you're just paying for convenience?

Charging with granny cable will be the same whether you have 3.3 or 6.6 OBC.

If you have a 3.3 OBC, then you would charge at 16A on a public or home charger.

If you have 6.6 OBC, then you charge at 32A on a public or home charger (if the home cp is 32A).

KCross

jamesthepeach wrote: »

I just checked the average we get is .14 kWh/km. I'm pretty sure my driving like a lunatic is pushing that average up too.

That's 11.2 kw for 80km.

Very dependent on driving style and types/speeds of roads. I'd be closer to .18kWh/km and it takes more than that to get the battery back up as there is Wh's lost during charging.

So, 15kWh's for 80km for me and add in 10% for charger losses brings it to about 16kWh for 80km.

At .14kWh/km you are at the very good end of the scale for Leaf. You must be driving in Eco mode a lot or simply driving <100kmh most of the time.

jamesthepeach wrote: »

At the charging rate of 2kw per hour from the granny charger someone suggested​, which I think is too low a rate tbh,

Im including charger losses. The granny charger charges at 10A. Thats about 2.3kW but the car will get less than 90% of that so closer to 2kW.

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Why not just do the granny charger and if it works for you, then leave it and if not spend the extra money on a bigger charger and installation? That would be the best option.

Yes, This. ^^.

NIMAN wrote: »

Another question, is the rate of charging decided by the OBC or the method of supply?

Both!, whichever one is slower is what dictates.
If the car has a 3.3kW charger then thats the max it will take but the granny cable will only supply ~2kW's so it won't max out the 3.3kW OBC.

The public SCP's will provide upto 22kW's so the 3.3kW max in the car is the limiting factor in that case.

If you get a wall mount EVSE you have two choices a 16A (3.6kW) or a 32A(7.3kW). They cost the same to buy. The 3.6kW OBC in the car will be the limiting factor here.... your car will only pull the 3.6kW even if the EVSE is a 32A.

ELM327

goz83 wrote: »

It would be cutting it very fine to rely on the granny charger only

I relied on the granny cable only for months until work installed a charger.
110-120km each day. Not without some stress as it's a lot of motorway, but perfectly do-able. A home CP won't make much difference for a 3.3kWh leaf anyway as it's only taking ~1 kW more per hour. I have a display on my EVSE telling me how much the car is taking and it's generally around 2.2 kW.


PS I still have no home CP installed, the granny cable has done me fine so far.

goz83

ELM327 wrote: »

I relied on the granny cable only for months until work installed a charger.
110-120km each day. Not without some stress as it's a lot of motorway, but perfectly do-able. A home CP won't make much difference for a 3.3kWh leaf anyway as it's only taking ~1 kW more per hour. I have a display on my EVSE telling me how much the car is taking and it's generally around 2.2 kW.


PS I still have no home CP installed, the granny cable has done me fine so far.

I used the granny cable for about 2 weeks before I had the home CP installed. I just found it to be hassle. My logical mind told me that there would be times I would need a faster charge at home (which there have been) and that the CP would be not only convenient, but also beneficial as I would be staying with EV and will likely be getting one with more range and will also have a second EV to charge up in the medium term.

jamesthepeach

goz83 wrote: »

I used the granny cable for about 2 weeks before I had the home CP installed. I just found it to be hassle. My logical mind told me that there would be times I would need a faster charge at home (which there have been) and that the CP would be not only convenient, but also beneficial as I would be staying with EV and will likely be getting one with more range and will also have a second EV to charge up in the medium term.

Charger anxiety

goz83

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Charger anxiety

more like lazy b@stard

NIMAN

Only issue for me possibly is that I am a shift worker, and so leave early in the morning, usually around 6:30am.

The car would need to be fully charged for that time. I am not sure what time night rate electricity starts at, but perhaps a slow charge wouldn't have enough hours to get car fully charged?

ELM327

NIMAN wrote: »

Only issue for me possibly is that I am a shift worker, and so leave early in the morning, usually around 6:30am.

The car would need to be fully charged for that time. I am not sure what time night rate electricity starts at, but perhaps a slow charge wouldn't have enough hours to get car fully charged?

It starts at 11 or 12 depending on time of year
If you had a 6.6 leaf it would charge from empty to full in 4 hours from a 6.6kW home CP

KCross

Unless budget is really tight and assuming you are staying in your house for the long term I would get the wall mount EVSE.

Don't look at it only as something that has to pay for itself. Its mainly a convenience/flexibility thing and if you plan to stay with EV long term your next EV is going to be double/treble what your current EV has so a granny charger won't cut it then.

Thats just my opinion, whatever works for you.

The granny charger will do fine in the short term. I used it myself for 4 months and it did the job but I didn't have a convenient outdoor socket near the car so I had to run extension leads and it was just messy trying to keep them dry.

You leaving at 6:30am also needs to be taken into account. If your car isn't fully charged in the morning and you do your 80km commute and then you get home and need to go out again you could be very low on charge. The granny charger won't give you any meaningful boost in 1-3hrs. A wall mount EVSE will.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Unless budget is really tight and assuming you are staying in your house for the long term I would get the wall mount EVSE.

Don't look at it only as something that has to pay for itself. Its mainly a convenience/flexibility thing and if you plan to stay with EV long term your next EV is going to be double/treble what your current EV has so a granny charger won't cut it then.

Thats just my opinion, whatever works for you.

The granny charger will do fine in the short term. I used it myself for 4 months and it did the job but I didn't have a convenient outdoor socket near the car so I had to run extension leads and it was just messy trying to keep them dry.

You leaving at 6:30am also needs to be taken into account. If your car isn't fully charged in the morning and you do your 80km commute and then you get home and need to go out again you could be very low on charge. The granny charger won't give you any meaningful boost in 1-3hrs. A wall mount EVSE will.

I agree, and the only reason I haven't installed a home CP myself is I intend on moving in the next 9-12 months

However this sentence is not really accurate

KCross wrote: »

The granny charger won't give you any meaningful boost in 1-3hrs. A wall mount EVSE will.

Granny cable will supply 30% in 3 hours
3.3 kw would supply approx 40% in 3 hours
6.6 kw would supply almost 90% in 3 hours

So in reality there is not that much difference between the granny cable and the 3.3 leaf. However there is a gulf between a granny cable and a 6.6. It depends on what leaf you have imo whether it's worth it or not.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

However this sentence is not really accurate


Granny cable will supply 30% in 3 hours
3.3 kw would supply approx 40% in 3 hours
6.6 kw would supply almost 90% in 3 hours

So in reality there is not that much difference between the granny cable and the 3.3 leaf. However there is a gulf between a granny cable and a 6.6. It depends on what leaf you have imo whether it's worth it or not.

Allowing for charger losses the figures I had were...

Granny Charger 2kWh/hr
16A EVSE 3.3kWh/hr
32A EVSE 6kWh/hr

Multiple for 3hrs gets you....
6kWh
9.9kWh
18kWh

6(27%)-->9.9(45%) is a reasonable step up, just shy of 20% in the difference.

ELM327

But you have not allowed any losses for the non granny cable charging.
eg 3.3*3 hours does not give 9.9 kWh to the car.

grogi

ELM327 wrote: »

But you have not allowed any losses for the non granny cable charging.
eg 3.3*3 hours does not give 9.9 kWh to the car.

The difference is most visible also when the car is almost empty. When the charge of the batteries goes up, the gap narrows.

It is visible in the photos of the cars, and they would say, for instance, that the car needs 4 hours on 3.3kW and 3 hours on 6.6kW point to be full.

ELM327

Mine has often said 1.5 hours on 3.3 and 1.5 hours on 6.6!

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

But you have not allowed any losses for the non granny cable charging.
eg 3.3*3 hours does not give 9.9 kWh to the car.

I had it in my head that the 3.3kW actually pulls 3.6kW which is only true in one specific case so I'll reword the figures:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102659864&postcount=215

So, it would be:
10A: Granny Charger
15A: 16A EVSE

That 50% more being delivered every hour.

With loses:
2070W: Granny Charger
3105W: 16A EVSE

For 3hrs:
6.2kWh(28%): Granny charger
9.3kWh(42%): 16A EVSE

When you are looking for a "quick" topup that extra 14% will matter.

jamesthepeach

KCross wrote: »

Unless budget is really tight and assuming you are staying in your house for the long term I would get the wall mount EVSE.

Don't look at it only as something that has to pay for itself. Its mainly a convenience/flexibility thing and if you plan to stay with EV long term your next EV is going to be double/treble what your current EV has so a granny charger won't cut it then.

Thats just my opinion, whatever works for you.

The granny charger will do fine in the short term. I used it myself for 4 months and it did the job but I didn't have a convenient outdoor socket near the car so I had to run extension leads and it was just messy trying to keep them dry.

You leaving at 6:30am also needs to be taken into account. If your car isn't fully charged in the morning and you do your 80km commute and then you get home and need to go out again you could be very low on charge. The granny charger won't give you any meaningful boost in 1-3hrs. A wall mount EVSE will.

I subscribe to the don't buy it unless you are sure you need it camp.
I really think the op should try out the granny charger for a while and if they find it's not good enough then they can upgrade. If it is good enough they have saved themselves the price of a holiday.

I'm.pretty certain the granny cable will meet their needs.