Nissan Leaf

ELM327

NIMAN wrote: »

Do people envisage the price of Gen 1.5 Leafs dropping off much after this announcement?

Would now be a bad time to buy? Better to wait til closer to end of year?

Certainly wouldnt buy a new leaf now.
Second hand gen1 and 24kWh gen 1.5 have held up well since the 30kWh so i don't think this will have a dramatic impact.

However if it has a 200 mile range with similar DC times to the Ioniq and AC times as a Zoe then it could hammer residuals of the gen 1/1.5

isnottheword

NIMAN wrote: »

Do people envisage the price of Gen 1.5 Leafs dropping off much after this announcement?

Would now be a bad time to buy? Better to wait til closer to end of year?

It's long been argued that EV's generally would have an issue in terms of rapid depreciation because of it being a developing technology by comparison with the conventional ICE. There has been major depreciation at the 2-3 year mark - but that's likely due to a shed-load of ex-PCP stock hitting the market.

I wouldn't imagine the release of the latest Leaf should affect the Gen 1.5 a whole lot as the customer who buys one is not going to be in the market for the other. A prospective Gen 1.5 buyer may have a preference for the latest model in an ideal world but it's going to come with a significant price-tag.

Additionally, there's a whole market for the Gen 1.5 just waiting to be uncovered. i.e. there are thousands of perfectly suitable candidates for these cars who are not conscious of the fact that their driving routine ideally fits Leaf Gen. 1.5 usage. As time goes on and people come into more contact with EV's, they will discover this. The likelihood is that we will see year-on-year rises in motor tax on ICE's - which will lead to more people looking a lot closer at EV options.

My main concern for used Leaf residuals revolves around PCP. If a glut of ex-PCP stock (bigger than we have seen before) hit the market, it could really destroy residuals. Not necessarily just an EV related issue though.

goz83

It will hit residuals, yes, but it will be small. Then in 2-3 years, a bigger hit due to pcp. I personally don't give a rats @ss.

I would doubt they will have 22 Kw AC , I can't see them having more than 7Kw AC. The Chameleon charger in the Zoe is linked to the Motor and Leaf II will have a slightly more powerful motor, I think 10-15 Hp more ( the excitement will kill me ) and it won't have the same drive train as the Zoe (thankfully)

It's highly likely they will still have ChaDeMo after all CCS offers nothing over ChaDeMo. ChaDeMo II is capable of 350 Kw and there are still a lot more ChaDeMo points installed.

In theory the battery should be capable of 100 kw charging, for the same exact battery if you parallel 2 together then it will naturally take twice the charging and discharging current. However a different chemistry of twice the capacity may not take twice the current of the current battery but it's usually always the case a larger AH battery can take more charging current so it would be ridiculous if Nissan chose to keep the existing charging standard of 45 Kw, absolutely ridiculous.

It's also highly unlikely to have liquid cooling and if not I can't see huge numbers buy it in the U.S in hot climates.

ELM327

no liquid cooling? That would be ridiculous after the issues of the first gen!
CCS is the way that most EV manufacturers are going so I would be surprised to see this leaf with chademo. Although there was a rumor that the nissan ireland rep confirmed that they would have chademo.

45kW chademo would be ridiculous.

Yes 45 Kw would be ridiculous especially with a 40 Kwh + battery, however Renault did not increase charging speed for the 40 Kwh Zoe but it's a lot more complicated because of the on board AC charger and the way it's linked to the motor. Adding DC would have made a lot more sense and if they could keep at least 22 Kw AC all the better.

In Nissan's case it's far easier with the Leaf. I guess we'll just have to wait and see in 7 weeks.

ELM327

I would expect that the new Zoe, (as the ZE40 is only a facelift) will come with the 22kW AC charger, and CCS DC fast charging. Which is why they haven't updated the fast AC times on the ze40.

But yes, re the leaf, seems we will have to wait till september.
I wonder is there any event on in ireland to mark the occasion?

I doubt anyone in Ireland will be aware of Leaf II until they walk into Nissan, they won't spend money on advertising because they feel it's not worth the cost as everyone wants the tiny SUV look-a-like Diesel.

Water John

Ah Mad, the world is changing. Move on. People will buy EV. The same rules apply to all new tech. The timeframe is all is in question.

NIMAN

Going to answer my own question here a bit, but as someone who is currently thinking seriously about changing one of my cars for a Leaf, I don't really think Gen2 will affect my decision to buy a Gen2. Its pure, and simple, economics.

I'm hoping to sell my current car for X, add Y from savings and then pay X+Y for my 2nd hand Leaf.

Now, even before I see how the Gen2 looks or what the charging capability it has, I am sure I'd prefer the new Leaf over the current one. But as I said, it'll be a money decision.

I'll not be looking to spend €25k+ for a new Leaf when a €10k 3yr old one will suit my needs perfectly.

The only worry I'd have is that the €10k Leaf might be bought for €8k or €7k a few months later, but I doubt its value will plummet that much.

Orebro

2 different markets between a 1.5 gen and Leaf 2 - I certainly had no intention on buying a new EV when I bought my 10k 1.5 gen as it suits my needs perfectly. Leaf 2 isn't going to change people's needs so the 1.5 will continue to be just as useful - so I don't think it's values will even budge on Leaf 2 announcement. I do think once they are discovered by the people they suit then the 1.5 gen prices will solidify or even go up!

ELM327

NIMAN wrote: »

Going to answer my own question here a bit, but as someone who is currently thinking seriously about changing one of my cars for a Leaf, I don't really think Gen2 will affect my decision to buy a Gen2. Its pure, and simple, economics.

I'm hoping to sell my current car for X, add Y from savings and then pay X+Y for my 2nd hand Leaf.

Now, even before I see how the Gen2 looks or what the charging capability it has, I am sure I'd prefer the new Leaf over the current one. But as I said, it'll be a money decision.

I'll not be looking to spend €25k+ for a new Leaf when a €10k 3yr old one will suit my needs perfectly.

The only worry I'd have is that the €10k Leaf might be bought for €8k or €7k a few months later, but I doubt its value will plummet that much.

My experience. I bought a 24 month old leaf, and now 9 months later its value is probably only down 1200 due to my high miles. If I was doing the usual 10-15k per year the car would not have depreciated at all.

isnottheword

NIMAN wrote: »

Its pure, and simple, economics.....Now, even before I see how the Gen2 looks or what the charging capability it has, I am sure I'd prefer the new Leaf over the current one. But as I said, it'll be a money decision.

Singing off the same hymn sheet there. There's someone in the market for each type of car. Some can buy new and write use off as an expense item against tax (partially); some buy new via pcp, leasing, manufacturer-incentivised financing, etc.
Ordinarily, I can't reconcile myself to take the hit on the first couple of years worth of depreciation - as this is where the biggest asset value loss occurs. Of course, there's an element of bangernomics at play here. How far do you take it? The answer is different for everyone. For some, they buy new, for others, they buy in at 12-36 months and so on.
Depreciation still happens after years 2-3, etc. - but relative to my earnings, I can live with that.

NIMAN wrote: »

I'll not be looking to spend €25k+ for a new Leaf when a €10k 3yr old one will suit my needs perfectly.

Agreed. If I was ever to be tempted to spend €25k, it would be on the Ioniq - but I still can't bring myself to pull the trigger on that.

NIMAN wrote: »

The only worry I'd have is that the €10k Leaf might be bought for €8k or €7k a few months later, but I doubt its value will plummet that much.

Months later - definitely not. An ever gradual depreciation - most definitely. But then, that's the norm with cars be it EV or ICE. Hard to say for sure, but as they get older, it could very well be that such EV's are in high demand - if motor taxes are increased on ICE's. Even if they're not, it's really at this point that an old Leaf can really pay its way as the 2nd car doing the school run/shopping, etc. I know many use them from day 1 for this purpose - but from purely a return on investment point of view, it's only with such small outlay that you get your money back when using an EV for small mileage.

NIMAN

I'm close to taking the plunge on a UK based car.

2014 Tekna,
9500 miles
6.6 charger
32A Charge point
7kw charging cable
Granny cable.
£8500

Very tempted.

unkel

That's €9,500 with the weak sterling, so a few hundred on top for it landed. That's very good value alright!

And you know it'll still be worth €5k at the very least in 3 years time. So very little depreciation to come. Go for it NIMAN

KCross

NIMAN wrote: »

I'm close to taking the plunge on a UK based car.

2014 Tekna,
9500 miles
6.6 charger
32A Charge point
7kw charging cable
Granny cable.
£8500

Very tempted.

The only thing I'd check is the fact it has only done 3000 miles a year. What state of charge was it left in during this time as 3000/yr is awfully low.... but excellent for you if the battery is 100%

DrPhilG

Yeah I was just going to suggest asking for a Leafspy report of they can give you one.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

The only thing I'd check is the fact it has only done 3000 miles a year

Just used to go to mass / to the shops. Probably elderly lady owner. Clutch probably fooked. Oh wait

But seriously the mileage is a bit weird alright.

NIMAN

Can't see the dealer having a notion what I'm talking about if I ask him for a LeafSpy report.

DrPhilG

NIMAN wrote: »

Can't see the dealer having a notion what I'm talking about if I ask him for a LeafSpy report.

Possibly not but worth asking. I know some have been able to get them from dealers.

isnottheword

They look like the same sort of outfit as sold me my first Leaf. He doesn't even have 6.6kW charging advertised. If he was aware of the benefit of the feature, there's no way they'd forget to pimp that. I'd say they are old school and don't normally handle EV - and just got caught up with that one on trade-in.

You could bring your own dongle and plug it in - and run the app. Most likely it's fine.

650Ginge

Who owns the blue leaf plugged into charger and clamped on South Lotts Road?

la ultima guagua

650Ginge wrote: »

Who owns the blue leaf plugged into charger and clamped on South Lotts Road?

Anyone know on what grounds can this can be done

Gumbo

la ultima guagua wrote: »

Anyone know on what grounds can this can be done

If the owner didn't pay for parking then they can be clamped. Pay and display is still mandatory in DCC.

goz83

la ultima guagua wrote: »

Anyone know on what grounds can this can be done

http://www.thejournal.ie/electric-car-charge-2679232-Mar2016/

Stupid to clamp them though. Blocks the spot so nobody can use it. Better to tow the car away.

I genuinely thought it was free to park and charge in DCC. News to me

unkel

Sure DCC couldn't do without the parking money and the clamping fines. They have all those overpaid old civil servant clampers' wages to pay :pac:

Water John

Is Cork the only city/ town where you charge parking is free? I mean where the neighbouring cars pay.

la ultima guagua

kceire wrote: »

If the owner didn't pay for parking then they can be clamped. Pay and display is still mandatory in DCC.

Well I be darned. There was me thinking it was like at train stations

Thank you all who replied - you saved me picking up a clump fee

cros13

la ultima guagua wrote: »

Well I be darned. There was me thinking it was like at train stations

Thank you all who replied - you saved me picking up a clump fee

Watch out for luas P+R... no free parking while charging there either... worse than that... they are getting so used to people not knowing that, they've been clamping without checking have you paid.

I've now had three occasions where one of our EVs has had parking and been clamped anyway.

Firblog

This was pointed out to me today, single pedal driving in the new leaf?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOrxWYrpDk4

Take a bit of getting used to