Nissan Leaf

waynegalway

waynegalway wrote: »

This post might answer some of these questions for you:

https://waynegibbons.wordpress.com/electric-vehicle-qa/

Wayne

There are 3 charging levels.

Slow is what you would get at home or on the public network if you have a 3.3kw LEAF

Fast is what you would get at home (with an upgraded charge point) or on the public network if you have a 6.6kw LEAF

Rapid is what you get on the public network using the larger port under the flap (the larger port will be there regardless of whether you have Gen 1 or 1.5, 3.3kw or 6.6kw). This is the one that will give about 80% charge in 30-40 minutes

I suppose technically there’s a fourth level if you add in the granny cable and a regular 3-pin socket, but that’s basically just a slower version of slow charging.

from_atozinc

waynegalway wrote: »

There are 3 charging levels.

Slow is what you would get at home or on the public network if you have a 3.3kw LEAF

Fast is what you would get at home (with an upgraded charge point) or on the public network if you have a 6.6kw LEAF

Rapid is what you get on the public network using the larger port under the flap (the larger port will be there regardless of whether you have Gen 1 or 2, 3.3 or 6.6). This is the one that will give about 80% charge in 30-40 minutes

Thanks Wayne. So the Gen 1 can avail of rapid charging, that is good.

Charging a 3.3. kw LEAF Versus a 6.6KW LEAF from home works out at same cost, yeah? just quicker

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks Wayne. So the Gen 1 can avail of rapid charging, that is good.

Charging a 3.3. kw LEAF Versus a 6.6KW LEAF from home works out at same cost, yeah? just quicker

Yep, the amount of energy needed to charge is the same, but you’ll get it into the car in about half the time with a 6.6kw.

I’m getting economy of about 15kwh per 100km at the moment, and 15kwh costs me about €2 when I charge at home. Cost is related to the amount you put in, not the rate at which you do so.

slave1

I don't know where the 3.3kw comes from but is it not 3.6kw.
Also to add there are some Gen 1 Leaf out there without the Rapid charge port as it was optional at some point in time

waynegalway

slave1 wrote: »

I don't know where the 3.3kw comes from but is it not 3.6kw.
Also to add there are some Gen 1 Leaf out there without the Rapid charge port as it was optional at some point in time

I think the output from the house is closer to 3.6 (220v multiplied by 16a), but I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that the car takes this on board at 3.3kw. I stand to be corrected, of course!

Fair enough if there are Gen 1’s out there without Rapid charge port, so that’s something for the OP to check when shopping around for sure (it’ll be easy to tell either way by lifting the flap).

from_atozinc

What ye make of this one: https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/nissan/leaf/used-2012-nissan-leaf-109ps-eletr-galway-fpa-54745672025124

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

What ye make of this one: https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/nissan/leaf/used-2012-nissan-leaf-109ps-eletr-galway-fpa-54745672025124

Give Phil a shout in Electric Autos:
http://www.electricautos.ie/

Or

https://www.nextecocar.ie/

Both are specialists.....I

slave1

from_atozinc wrote: »

What ye make of this one: https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/nissan/leaf/used-2012-nissan-leaf-109ps-eletr-galway-fpa-54745672025124

Car tax quoted is wrong, no NCT info, three types of alloys quoted, fair chance the dealer does not have a clue what he has on his hands and the price looks too high.

waynegalway

slave1 wrote: »

Car tax quoted is wrong, no NCT info, three types of alloys quoted, fair chance the dealer does not have a clue what he has on his hands and the price looks too high.

Agreed. Price looks high for the year.

OP: are you based in Galway? If you want to meet up and have a look at my LEAF you can. It’s not for sale, but it might give you an idea what it’s like and I’d be happy to go over any questions you have.

slave1

Way better value, read up on the Leaf for a month or so and then bring one in from the UK, this guy is two years newer and would land to your door for just over €8k

KCross

slave1 wrote: »

Way better value, read up on the Leaf for a month or so and then bring one in from the UK, this guy is two years newer and would land to your door for just over €8k

That’s very cheap. Any chance it’s a battery rental version?

waynegalway

Just by way of comparison, when I was looking in the UK last November I found a 2015 Acenta with 6.6 charger for £9,000 near Liverpool. Didn’t buy from there in the end, but I’d have thought a comparable 2014 now would be in around £7k, so the price is probably about right for the one linked above.

KCross

slave1 wrote: »

Way better value, read up on the Leaf for a month or so and then bring one in from the UK, this guy is two years newer and would land to your door for just over €8k

Just ran a check and its showing up as a flex (battery rental). I'd walk away from that one.

slave1

Good call, still plenty to choose from from that era without battery rental, just putting another option for OP

Shefwedfan

If the OP is unsure of cables/chargers etc is it really worth recommending to buy a car over the phone/internet from the UK?

A number of specialist companies are bringing the cars in, ok they are adding a small margin but it is nothing major. You also get the added benefit of their experience of picking the right electric car....

How much would you really save on a car once you take in flights/time/ferry/etc versus picking up one in garage in Ireland and having warranty etc?

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If the OP is unsure of cables/chargers etc is it really worth recommending to buy a car over the phone/internet from the UK?

A number of specialist companies are bringing the cars in, ok they are adding a small margin but it is nothing major. You also get the added benefit of their experience of picking the right electric car....

How much would you really save on a car once you take in flights/time/ferry/etc versus picking up one in garage in Ireland and having warranty etc?

You must have shares in Phil's company! Whats your commission like Shefwedfan!

waynegalway

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If the OP is unsure of cables/chargers etc is it really worth recommending to buy a car over the phone/internet from the UK?

A number of specialist companies are bringing the cars in, ok they are adding a small margin but it is nothing major. You also get the added benefit of their experience of picking the right electric car....

How much would you really save on a car once you take in flights/time/ferry/etc versus picking up one in garage in Ireland and having warranty etc?

That one I looked at last November was £9000. With flight and ferry, I would have left Knock airport at about 10am, and I would have rolled off the ferry in Dublin about 13 hours later. It would have been a hectic day, plus another 4-ish hours to get from Dublin back to Galway. Doable, but busy.

After currency conversion, flight and ferry were factored in, the car would have cost me about €12k. It didn’t come with a home charger, so it would have been more like €12.5k. That was about €1k cheaper than most comparable ones already in Ireland at that time.

In the end I bought privately for about the same price as the import would have cost, but it had the bonus of coming with a 32a charger thrown in.

In looking at prices on the usual car sites, it seems that depreciation has really slowed down. 2015 ones are still on sale now for more than I paid for mine 6 months ago. I guess demand is rising.

slave1

If the OP is unsure of cables/chargers etc is it really worth recommending to buy a car over the phone/internet from the UK?

No, hence the reference to read up/educate for a month or so which is what the OP has rightly start doing, anyhow it's always an option worth pointing out without necessarily being a recommendation.

A number of specialist companies are bringing the cars in, ok they are adding a small margin but it is nothing major. You also get the added benefit of their experience of picking the right electric car....

Agreed, but what might look like a small margin to us could be a lot bigger if they are sourcing from auction

How much would you really save on a car once you take in flights/time/ferry/etc versus picking up one in garage in Ireland and having warranty etc?

Depending on your price point, quite a lot.
I saved quite a bit and also brought a 2014 24kw Acenta in for my cousin in February for €2k less that the lowest price in Ireland including transport to his door. You'll have UK warranty (if you want one that much) so if near the border not a biggie should anything go wrong

KCross

slave1 wrote: »

... You'll have UK warranty (if you want one that much) so if near the border not a biggie should anything go wrong

I've had several issues fixed in local Nissan garages under warranty and it was a UK import.
i.e. the warranty is fully covered in Ireland if you import from UK, no questions asked.

slave1

I think the OP's era may be out of the Pan European warranty time period...but if not the Nissan Warranty is Pan European so as you pointed out fully covered

Shefwedfan

slave1 wrote: »

Agreed, but what might look like a small margin to us could be a lot bigger if they are sourcing from auction

So you are complaining because they are buying at a lower cost so they can pass on to us(the buyer) at a decent cost while still putting some bread on the table????

I am fully aware they are not buying at street value, but I am also fully aware they need to make a living

from_atozinc

waynegalway wrote: »

Agreed. Price looks high for the year.

OP: are you based in Galway? If you want to meet up and have a look at my LEAF you can. It’s not for sale, but it might give you an idea what it’s like and I’d be happy to go over any questions you have.

HI wayne

Yes I am. I might give you a PM, thanks for the kind offer !!

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

What ye make of this one: https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/nissan/leaf/used-2012-nissan-leaf-109ps-eletr-galway-fpa-54745672025124

Thsi pricing is way more like it: http://www.electricautos.ie/vehicles/nissan/leaf/kildare/1990151

A year newer etc and over 1000 cheaper, the first link crowd dont seem to have their facts straight.

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thsi pricing is way more like it: http://www.electricautos.ie/vehicles/nissan/leaf/kildare/1990151

A year newer etc and over 1000 cheaper, the first link crowd dont seem to have their facts straight.

Yes, and from a specialist dealer too, who gets a lot of recommendations on here. Not saying the one in Galway is a dodgy dealer, but the wording of the listing and the price don't instil confidence. There was a 2014 for sale in Galway last October for about 13k, which was a decent price for a non-specialist dealer.

from_atozinc

waynegalway wrote: »

Yes, and from a specialist dealer too, who gets a lot of recommendations on here. Not saying the one in Galway is a dodgy dealer, but the wording of the listing and the price don't instil confidence. There was a 2014 for sale in Galway last October for about 13k, which was a decent price for a non-specialist dealer.

yeah, only thing re Kildare one is that its had 2 owners already. might be fine though.


re galwway one: no, didn't like it when I seen the 3 tyre sizes and that stupid line "first to see will buy" (I hate that line ))

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

What ye make of this one: https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/nissan/leaf/used-2012-nissan-leaf-109ps-eletr-galway-fpa-54745672025124

is this over priced by about 2500 ?

tonbinn

nobody seems to have mentioned vrt here. was thinking of skipping over the border for a leaf or something similar myself. i assume vrt has to be paid as with petrol vehicles?? our mileage is only 10 per year (16 km approx.) and we both work in the same place, about 5 or 6 km from the house. between collecting our daughter and running around, between 30 and 40 km per day. and this is only 7 or 8 months of the year as we both teach. probably 1 or 2 70 km round trips per week too and a couple of road trips per year for dubs games and that's the lot. always comes in about 15ooo km. should i definitely be making the trip north and what would be my best options for a used EV or even plug-in? apologies for all the questions and thanks in advance.

NIMAN

Vrt won't cost you anything on a leaf.

There is a 5K allowance, and vrt will never be above that

waynegalway

tonbinn wrote: »

nobody seems to have mentioned vrt here. was thinking of skipping over the border for a leaf or something similar myself. i assume vrt has to be paid as with petrol vehicles?? our mileage is only 10 per year (16 km approx.) and we both work in the same place, about 5 or 6 km from the house. between collecting our daughter and running around, between 30 and 40 km per day. and this is only 7 or 8 months of the year as we both teach. probably 1 or 2 70 km round trips per week too and a couple of road trips per year for dubs games and that's the lot. always comes in about 15ooo km. should i definitely be making the trip north and what would be my best options for a used EV or even plug-in? apologies for all the questions and thanks in advance.

There is a VRT allowance on EVs that means there is effectively no VRT on the value of car we're talking about here.

waynegalway

tonbinn wrote: »

nobody seems to have mentioned vrt here. was thinking of skipping over the border for a leaf or something similar myself. i assume vrt has to be paid as with petrol vehicles?? our mileage is only 10 per year (16 km approx.) and we both work in the same place, about 5 or 6 km from the house. between collecting our daughter and running around, between 30 and 40 km per day. and this is only 7 or 8 months of the year as we both teach. probably 1 or 2 70 km round trips per week too and a couple of road trips per year for dubs games and that's the lot. always comes in about 15ooo km. should i definitely be making the trip north and what would be my best options for a used EV or even plug-in? apologies for all the questions and thanks in advance.

Apart from the "couple of road trips per year", it sounds like you'd be a good candidate for an EV. I won't get onto my soapbox about hybrids and plug-in hyrbids, but it's worth saying that if your driving pattern suits a pure EV, then getting anything less is a bit of a false economy.

How long would your road trips be, and have you looked at the ecars website to see if there are rapid chargers along your route? Would the EV be the only car in the house, or have you an ICE car that you can use for the odd longer trip? Would the train be an option for the longer trips? If these trips are really only a couple of times a year, you could even perhaps justify hiring a car for the day, and you'd still have saved money over the course of the year.

tonbinn

waynegalway wrote: »

Apart from the "couple of road trips per year", it sounds like you'd be a good candidate for an EV. I won't get onto my soapbox about hybrids and plug-in hyrbids, but it's worth saying that if your driving pattern suits a pure EV, then getting anything less is a bit of a false economy.

How long would your road trips be, and have you looked at the ecars website to see if there are rapid chargers along your route? Would the EV be the only car in the house, or have you an ICE car that you can use for the odd longer trip? Would the train be an option for the longer trips? If these trips are really only a couple of times a year, you could even perhaps justify hiring a car for the day, and you'd still have saved money over the course of the year.

Good ideas and advice, thanks. EV would be the only car, thats why i mentioned plug in. Another thought i had was to join gocar.ie for the longer trips but I dont know how feasible this is.

from_atozinc

If one had a range of 50km
And then sat in really bad traffic for 1 hour and moved only 5k.........would the range drop to 45km OR would it drop way more due to the time sitting there etc?

ELM327

from_atozinc wrote: »

If one had a range of 50km
And then sat in really bad traffic for 1 hour and moved only 5k.........would the range drop to 45km OR would it drop way more due to the time sitting there etc?

It would drop according to the electricity drawn by the ancillaries

But exponentially less than an ICE as there's no engine to keep running

slave1

slave1 wrote: »

A number of specialist companies are bringing the cars in, ok they are adding a small margin but it is nothing major. You also get the added benefit of their experience of picking the right electric car....

Agreed, but what might look like a small margin to us could be a lot bigger if they are sourcing from auction

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So you are complaining because they are buying at a lower cost so they can pass on to us(the buyer) at a decent cost while still putting some bread on the table????

I am fully aware they are not buying at street value, but I am also fully aware they need to make a living

LOL

"Agreed, but what might look like a small margin to us could be a lot bigger if they are sourcing from auction"

That's complaining?

Hey OP, another point perhaps worth pointing out is to avoid the basic level Leaf, you miss out on a lot of features (Sat Nav, cruise control etc.) and if your budget can stretch go for the mid range (known as Acenta in the UK and I think the SV model here).
Not that I'm complaining about the basic model...

Shefwedfan

slave1 wrote: »

LOL

"Agreed, but what might look like a small margin to us could be a lot bigger if they are sourcing from auction"

That's complaining?
.

Ok not complaining.....moaning, yes moaning is a better word:D

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

If one had a range of 50km
And then sat in really bad traffic for 1 hour and moved only 5k.........would the range drop to 45km OR would it drop way more due to the time sitting there etc?

Things like the radio, satnav, lights etc. are run off the normal 12v car battery, and so won't have any noticeable effect on range if you're stationary in traffic.

If it's raining, the wipers will draw a small amount, but again, hardly noticable in reality. Also, heating and A/C will draw from the main batteries, and will have a small effect, but in 1 hour and in slow moving, I'd say you'd loose a 4-5% at most. Just open a window if you get hot! In the middle of winter, I'd turn on preheating in my car before getting into it, and it would warm the car from perhaps 1 or 2 degrees up to 25 degrees.....that took about 15 minutes of intense heating and drew about 3% from the main batteries. You're not likely to need as intense heating/cooling in the hour you're stuck in traffic, so your battery drain will most likely be in the order of 4-5% at most from heating or A/C.

So, if you're not moving, you're not draining the batteries, effectively. Moving 5km slowly in a traffic jam will only take 5km off your overall range. Unless you've got heating/cooling on, in which case you'll lose a few more, but then you would in an ICE car too if you had heating/cooling on.

ELM327

waynegalway wrote: »

Things like the radio, satnav, lights etc. are run off the normal 12v car battery, and so won't have any noticeable effect on range if you're stationary in traffic.

If it's raining, the wipers will draw a small amount, but again, hardly noticable in reality. Also, heating and A/C will draw from the main batteries, and will have a small effect, but in 1 hour and in slow moving, I'd say you'd loose a 4-5% at most. Just open a window if you get hot! In the middle of winter, I'd turn on preheating in my car before getting into it, and it would warm the car from perhaps 1 or 2 degrees up to 25 degrees.....that took about 15 minutes of intense heating and drew about 3% from the main batteries. You're not likely to need as intense heating/cooling in the hour you're stuck in traffic, so your battery drain will most likely be in the order of 4-5% at most from heating or A/C.

So, if you're not moving, you're not draining the batteries, effectively. Moving 5km slowly in a traffic jam will only take 5km off your overall range. Unless you've got heating/cooling on, in which case you'll lose a few more, but then you would in an ICE car too if you had heating/cooling on.

Yes but this is replenished through the traction battery, so it does have some impact

In my leaf when stationary with the heat pump on and the radio, lights etc the total draw was between 1.5kW and 6kW. If we average it out at say 3kW, that's 3kWh per hour or 13% of usable capacity.

from_atozinc

waynegalway wrote: »

Things like the radio, satnav, lights etc. are run off the normal 12v car battery, and so won't have any noticeable effect on range if you're stationary in traffic.

If it's raining, the wipers will draw a small amount, but again, hardly noticable in reality. Also, heating and A/C will draw from the main batteries, and will have a small effect, but in 1 hour and in slow moving, I'd say you'd loose a 4-5% at most. Just open a window if you get hot! In the middle of winter, I'd turn on preheating in my car before getting into it, and it would warm the car from perhaps 1 or 2 degrees up to 25 degrees.....that took about 15 minutes of intense heating and drew about 3% from the main batteries. You're not likely to need as intense heating/cooling in the hour you're stuck in traffic, so your battery drain will most likely be in the order of 4-5% at most from heating or A/C.

So, if you're not moving, you're not draining the batteries, effectively. Moving 5km slowly in a traffic jam will only take 5km off your overall range. Unless you've got heating/cooling on, in which case you'll lose a few more, but then you would in an ICE car too if you had heating/cooling on.

Thanks, I know it was strange kind of a question but was just wondering how it would perform in bad traffic, if it drained quickly etc.

waynegalway

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but this is replenished through the traction battery, so it does have some impact

In my leaf when stationary with the heat pump on and the radio, lights etc the total draw was between 1.5kW and 6kW. If we average it out at say 3kW, that's 3kWh per hour or 13% of usable capacity.

Yep, it will have some impact, but barely noticeable.

My "stationary" draw differs from your by a fair amount. As I mentioned, pre-heating takes about 3%, over a 20 minute period, so say 9% over the hour. In reality, the draw would drop off after about 30 minutes as the cabin will have reached the target temperature and the system will automatically go into intermittent mode. So, likely to be maybe 7% over an hour. I have preheat set to 25 degrees, and obviously if it was set to say 21 or 22 it would draw less power.

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks, I know it was strange kind of a question but was just wondering how it would perform in bad traffic, if it drained quickly etc.

It's a fair question. Short answer is, yes it will drain, but by nowhere near as much as an ICE car will.

ELM327

waynegalway wrote: »

Yep, it will have some impact, but barely noticeable.

My "stationary" draw differs from your by a fair amount. As I mentioned, pre-heating takes about 3%, over a 20 minute period, so say 9% over the hour. In reality, the draw would drop off after about 30 minutes as the cabin will have reached the target temperature and the system will automatically go into intermittent mode. So, likely to be maybe 7% over an hour. I have preheat set to 25 degrees, and obviously if it was set to say 21 or 22 it would draw less power.

Are you using Leafspy to monitor the data showing energy usage?
Because the OBC is not always showing accurate data.

waynegalway

ELM327 wrote: »

Are you using Leafspy to monitor the data showing energy usage?
Because the OBC is not always showing accurate data.

I’d love to get LeafSpy, but I hear conflicting reports about which hardware works best. If you can recommend one, I’d be delighted.

So I’m basing my figures off the dashboard. Can’t see it being out by 6%, if you’re seeing 13 and I’m seeing 7. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s seems like a very big discrepancy.

ELM327

waynegalway wrote: »

I’d love to get LeafSpy, but I hear conflicting reports about which hardware works best. If you can recommend one, I’d be delighted.

So I’m basing my figures off the dashboard. Can’t see it being out by 6%, if you’re seeing 13 and I’m seeing 7. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s seems like a very big discrepancy.

I mean to be frank my 13% was a crude back of napkin calculation based on usage figures observed last winter.

Leafspy should work with an ELM327 adapter, you need WIFI one for iOS and bluetooth for android.

from_atozinc

another silly question.
So normal ICE cars can ball park figure do 15,000 miles a year and not much notice is taken.

With these electric cars, is 15,000 miles a year a lot or not much notice taken.

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

another silly question.
So normal ICE cars can ball park figure do 15,000 miles a year and not much notice is taken.

With these electric cars, is 15,000 miles a year a lot or not much notice taken.

How do you mean?

I’ve had mine for 6 months or so and I’ve done 10,000km in that time. The only thing that I expect to have to deal with in the next year or so is tire wear.

DrPhilG

I do about 16k miles a year.

from_atozinc

waynegalway wrote: »

How do you mean?

I’ve had mine for 6 months or so and I’ve done 10,000km in that time. The only thing that I expect to have to deal with in the next year or so is tire wear.

Suppose I mean do these electric cars have a less robust engine and can they handle the same mileage per year as a normal ICE car.

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Suppose I mean do these electric cars have a less robust engine and can they handle the same mileage per year as a normal ICE car.

Less moving parts, less service costs and lower service costs....

VW struggled to find anything to do with mine apart from a software update and then changed some brake oil which didn't need changing but I let them because it was a UK import....

next time they will just do software updates....maybe change the wipers

unkel

from_atozinc wrote: »

Suppose I mean do these electric cars have a less robust engine and can they handle the same mileage per year as a normal ICE car.

Engine and drivetrain can handle for more mileage than ICE car

My own car had its first year service done. Costs €0.00 as it was only an inspection, nothing needed to be changed. Even brakes lasts much longer in EVs as most of the braking is reversing the engine and charging the battery, rather than just heat / friction braking of pads and disks rubbing together like on an ICE

I'd say the average EV needs pads every 200k km and disks every 400k km

from_atozinc

Just to double check something. the whole 6.6kw charger versus 3.3 Kw charger.

The only thing this allows is quicker charging, correct?

i.e. no direct impact on range, car horse power etc