Nissan Leaf

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Fair enough!

They don't "keep happening" though, so we'll leave it off for a while.

As an aside, according to LeafSpy, my SOH is 73% (I think).
So is that 73% of 24kWh, or 73% of usable (whatever that is)?

As far as I am aware it is 73% of usable. So approx 21.5-22kWh as the usable. I do stand to be corrected on that.
Additionally it is different to the displayed "SOC" figure in the dashboard. So you have an SOH figure, a Hx figure, a SOC figure in Leafspy, and then an SOC figure in the dash (2013/14 onwards) and the 12 battery SOH bars in the dash.

I'm thinking they could have made this simpler.:pac:

Soarer

ELM327 wrote: »

As far as I am aware it is 73% of usable. So approx 21.5-22kWh as the usable. I do stand to be corrected on that.
Additionally it is different to the displayed "SOC" figure in the dashboard. So you have an SOH figure, a Hx figure, a SOC figure in Leafspy, and then an SOC figure in the dash (2013/14 onwards) and the 12 battery SOH bars in the dash.

I'm thinking they could have made this simpler.:pac:

I've 10 bars on the dash.

And so, according to my 73% SOH in LeafSpy, I've 16kWh usable left.

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

No.

Surely there's some sort of on-screen test like a Prius?

Or maybe I'll just bring it down to the motor factors?

Or maybe keep LeafSpy-ing it!

LeafSpy gives you the voltage reading in the bottom left corner of one of the screens.

Its not a foolproof method of determining if the battery is weak though.

There is also a window on the top of the battery itself with a little green ball which floats up into view if the battery is good. If all you see is black, then the battery is not up to voltage and a good indication its ready for replacement.

Soarer

Soarer wrote: »

I don't have that in my one. I can get out, do what I want, get back in, into Drive, and away I go.

And I actually like the charger beeps. Lets me know I've connected it properly and it's working.

Maybe I'm part Japanese?!

I was talking about the i3, it switches off when I get out of the car.

I think the indicator lights do the job fine without the beeps at least the option to turn it off should be available, in fact these annoying beeps should be off by default !

Soarer

Soarer wrote: »

I've 10 bars on the dash.

And so, according to my 73% SOH in LeafSpy, I've 16kWh usable left.

You'll soon be eligible for a current gen 24 Kwh battery ! you might even be already.

Cost is 5.5K or put that towards a 30 Kwh. Might even be cheaper now.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Cost is 5.5K or put that towards a 30 Kwh. Might even be cheaper now.

That's more than he paid for the car. And if he put 5.5k into the car, it would be worth about 1k more than it is now. An utter waste of money. It would be like wiping your arse with 90 EUR50 notes and then flushing the toilet.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

That's more than he paid for the car. And if he put 5.5k into the car, it would be worth about 1k more than it is now. An utter waste of money. It would be like wiping your arse with 90 EUR50 notes and then flushing the toilet.

Could be worth it to him if he intended to keep it. I agree though, I wouldn't spend it on an older Leaf.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Could be worth it to him if he intended to keep it.

Eh, no it couldn't be worth that to him unless the car has sentimental value

Soarer

Here's one for the learned.

Stupidly ran out of juice last night. While waiting for the flatbed, the 12V battery went dead.
Flatbed arrived, put a booster on the 12V allowing us to get the car into neutral and up onto the truck.
Got home, plugged her in, and she charged away on the 10A charger.
Everything grand this morning. Got into work, connected the work charger, and thought no more.
Got notification that she finished charging at around 11:50.
Remotely started the heating at around 12:20.
Left the office at around 12:30, and noticed a slight continuous beep coming from under the bonnet. Almost like the beep when you connect the charger, but at around half volume.
Ignored it, sat in, and drove approx. 15kms.
Stopped, turned the car off, but it turned straight back on again. "I-key" error message, same as the last time. She still drives perfectly, but error'd.
Unfortunately this time 'round, LeafSpy isn't clearing everything.
Hopefully it's a weak 12V as suggested by KCross.
But what I'm wondering is, can you disconnect the 12V when the car is powered on?
I'm assuming you can't, and I'm also assuming the 12V can't be tested while the car is running?

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Here's one for the learned.

Stupidly ran out of juice last night. While waiting for the flatbed, the 12V battery went dead.
Flatbed arrived, put a booster on the 12V allowing us to get the car into neutral and up onto the truck.
Got home, plugged her in, and she charged away on the 10A charger.
Everything grand this morning. Got into work, connected the work charger, and thought no more.
Got notification that she finished charging at around 11:50.
Remotely started the heating at around 12:20.
Left the office at around 12:30, and noticed a slight continuous beep coming from under the bonnet. Almost like the beep when you connect the charger, but at around half volume.
Ignored it, sat in, and drove approx. 15kms.
Stopped, turned the car off, but it turned straight back on again. "I-key" error message, same as the last time. She still drives perfectly, but error'd.
Unfortunately this time 'round, LeafSpy isn't clearing everything.
Hopefully it's a weak 12V as suggested by KCross.
But what I'm wondering is, can you disconnect the 12V when the car is powered on?
I'm assuming you can't, and I'm also assuming the 12V can't be tested while the car is running?

You could always connect a voltmeter when it is running. But the result would be meaningless as it could be being topped up from the traction battery. Similar to how even a weak battery reads 13-14V in an ICE if the alternator is charging it.

For best results test when car off and better again when disconnected.

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

Here's one for the learned.

Stupidly ran out of juice last night. While waiting for the flatbed, the 12V battery went dead.
Flatbed arrived, put a booster on the 12V allowing us to get the car into neutral and up onto the truck.
Got home, plugged her in, and she charged away on the 10A charger.
Everything grand this morning. Got into work, connected the work charger, and thought no more.
Got notification that she finished charging at around 11:50.
Remotely started the heating at around 12:20.
Left the office at around 12:30, and noticed a slight continuous beep coming from under the bonnet. Almost like the beep when you connect the charger, but at around half volume.
Ignored it, sat in, and drove approx. 15kms.
Stopped, turned the car off, but it turned straight back on again. "I-key" error message, same as the last time. She still drives perfectly, but error'd.
Unfortunately this time 'round, LeafSpy isn't clearing everything.
Hopefully it's a weak 12V as suggested by KCross.
But what I'm wondering is, can you disconnect the 12V when the car is powered on?
I'm assuming you can't, and I'm also assuming the 12V can't be tested while the car is running?

You've probably deep discharged the 12V now since you ran it flat which they dont take too kindly to. I'd get the 12V replaced (since you already had issues the other day anyway) or at the very least get it charged overnight by a battery charger to give it a full reconditioning.

As for testing the battery... Did you check the green ball?
LeafSpy also gives you a voltage reading for the 12V... what is it showing?


Also FYI... remote heating puts pressure on the 12V and it is then topped up by the HV battery so that probably made things worse in this case.


I dont know if its OK to disconnect the 12V while its on. My guess is it would be OK as it would be the same as the battery going dead but its not ideal. Cant see you have much choice either way unless you roll up to a Nissan garage?


EDIT: How about putting the key outside the antenna reach of the car and then turning it off. It might not turn back on in that case if it cant communicate with the fob?

Soarer

KCross wrote: »

You've probably deep discharged the 12V now since you ran it flat which they dont take too kindly to. I'd get the 12V replaced (since you already had issues the other day anyway) or at the very least get it charged overnight by a battery charger to give it a full reconditioning.

Don't have a battery charger, so that's out.
Will probably get it replaced JIC.

KCross wrote: »

As for testing the battery... Did you check the green ball?
LeafSpy also gives you a voltage reading for the 12V... what is it showing?

Didn't check the green ball!
Will do that ASAP.
If I remember correctly, LeafSpy shows between 12V and 13V when the car is running. Will confirm that.

KCross wrote: »

I dont know if its OK to disconnect the 12V while its on. My guess is it would be OK as it would be the same as the battery going dead but its not ideal. Cant see you have much choice either way unless you roll up to a Nissan garage?

Would rather stay away from a dealer unless absolutely necessary.
What would be the best way to disconnect the battery with the car running? Don't want to end up blown across the drive!

KCross wrote: »

EDIT: How about putting the key outside the antenna reach of the car and then turning it off. It might not turn back on in that case if it cant communicate with the fob?

Gonna try that now. Leave the keys at the desk and run down to the car. Will check the green ball too!;)

Soarer

Right, I'm back!

Didn't turn off even without the key.

No green ball on the battery. Probably means it's old?

LeafSpy read 14.0V just there, but again, the car is turned on.

I've attached two pics.
One of all the DTCs that appear after I try turn the car off and it turns back on again (pre clearing).
The other is after clearing DTCs (post clearing).
The brake ones won't clear.
So don't know if there's a problem with them, or is it the 12V messing up the communication. There's definitely nothing wrong with the drive of the car. Brakes work normally. ABS engages as it should. Regen works.

Gonna head home a few minutes early, disconnect the 12V, and bring it down to the motor factors to see what's what.

I presume it'd be disconnect negative first while the car is running?

ELM327

If you are attempting the removal while the car is running which is of course not to be reccomended, I would ensure to be wearing rubber shoes and ensure to be not grounded and not touching the car. I would echo your suggestion of negative first.

I know the battery is only 12V but it's connected to the HV system indirectly which is 400V.


EDIT: The fault code seems to show "IGN Relay stuck on". Perhaps there's an actual fault with your ignition relay and it's not related to the 12v at all?? Strange

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

No green ball on the battery. Probably means it's old?

It can be hard to see it. Its a small window at the top of the battery that you have to lean in over the battery to see down into it.

If the ball is not in view it likely means the battery is below voltage.

Soarer wrote: »

I've attached two pics.
One of all the DTCs that appear after I try turn the car off and it turns back on again (pre clearing).
The other is after clearing DTCs (post clearing).
The brake ones won't clear.
So don't know if there's a problem with them, or is it the 12V messing up the communication. There's definitely nothing wrong with the drive of the car. Brakes work normally. ABS engages as it should. Regen works.

I'd ignore all those codes until you can confirm the 12V is good or bad. Its well known that a bad 12V will throw spurious errors in a Leaf. I think most of the electronics work off the 12V and if they dont get the power they need they throw errors.

Confirm the battery first and if it is the battery get it replaced and THEN clear the codes and you should be good from there.

Soarer

ELM327 wrote: »

If you are attempting the removal while the car is running which is of course not to be reccomended, I would ensure to be wearing rubber shoes and ensure to be not grounded and not touching the car. I would echo your suggestion of negative first.

I know the battery is only 12V but it's connected to the HV system indirectly which is 400V.


EDIT: The fault code seems to show "IGN Relay stuck on". Perhaps there's an actual fault with your ignition relay and it's not related to the 12v at all?? Strange

Just for my own piece of mind, even though the 12V is connected (in a roundabout sorta way) to the main battery, there's still only ~12V going in and out of the terminals?

Soarer

Everybody afraid to answer in case I come back to haunt them?!

Anyways, got home and the car turned off!
The strange beeping noise was still going. It goes off when I open the door, so I’m assuming it has something to do with the 12V again, and when the draw from the interior lights comes on, it cuts the power to the speaker? But as soon as I turn on the ignition, and the 12V is being supplemented by the main battery, the beep starts again!
Anyways, got the battery straight out of the car, and drove down to the motor factors. Yer man used a Bosch battery tester, and it came back as 81% good. So he reckoned that the battery is ok. My thinking is maybe it was holding the charge from being driven 20 minutes previously, so I’m going to leave it disconnected overnight and see what it’s at in the morning.
Definitely no bubble!
Must also check the proper rating for a Leaf battery, as maybe 81% is good, but 81% of the wrong battery is no good!

Soarer

Morning all!

Latest development.
Left the 12V disconnected overnight and brought it straight down the the motor factors for another test. This morning it read 76% ie. it dropped from 81% to 76% in 15 hours. Don't know if batteries are supposed to do that. Wouldn't have thought so.
Anyways he said I could try a new one for a few days and see if it'd sort things out. Sound out like.
I was under a bit of pressure this morning, so I told him I'd swing back later if things were still mental.
Got home, reconnected the battery, and everything seems ok.
The beeping isn't happening anymore.
I was able to clear all the errors with LeafSpy.

I don't understand V, A, Ah, etc. I know the words, but not the meanings!
Bearing that in mind, a couple of things about the battery I have.
It states 12V 45Ah 390A. I was at 81-76% of this.
I found a pic of an original Leaf battery that a fella was replacing, and it's 12V 50Ah 420A.
He replaced that original battery with a battery 12V 45Ah 400A.
So from my novice point of view, my battery, even if new, would be less "powerful" than those two, and a good bit down on an original Leaf battery?
Consequently, running at 80% of an already "weaker" battery probably isn't good?
Finally, the lugs on the battery are sheethed with "spacers" to fit the terminals. Another not good sign?

goz83

You could be getting a bad contact. You can either replace the battery for one with the correct lug size, or replace the connectors for smaller ones. The connectors are around €15 and easy enough to replace.

I replaced the battery in my own 2012 a few months back because it was low. I’ll post up the ratings if I remember to have a look later.

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Just for my own piece of mind, even though the 12V is connected (in a roundabout sorta way) to the main battery, there's still only ~12V going in and out of the terminals?

Yes.
But if you were holding a gun to my head/my life depended on it I don't know how sure I'd be!! I wouldnt do it with wet hands just to be sure lol.

Of course the 12 V only has 12 volts at the terminals or the battery would explode !

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course the 12 V only has 12 volts at the terminals or the battery would explode !

See, logically I know that, but in the back of my head it's connected directly to 400V and it's going to kill me!
I freely admit I don't understand fully the workings of an EV drivetrain to the same level I would an ICE one.

No there's no hint of 340 volts anywhere near the 12 V , it goes to a DC-DC converter and is stepped down to 12v.

Soarer

Cheers for all that lads. Didn't have to worry, as the car turned off before I disconnected the 12V.

Any opinions on my battery questions?

"It states 12V 45Ah 390A. I was at 81-76% of this.
I found a pic of an original Leaf battery that a fella was replacing, and it's 12V 50Ah 420A.
He replaced that original battery with a battery 12V 45Ah 400A.
So from my novice point of view, my battery, even if new, would be less "powerful" than those two, and a good bit down on an original Leaf battery?
Consequently, running at 80% of an already "weaker" battery probably isn't good?
Finally, the lugs on the battery are sheethed with "spacers" to fit the terminals. Another not good sign? "

The battery should charge when needed regardless whether it's plugged into the mains or not. It does also charge when the car is plugged in charging.

Lead acids like to be kept at high SOC unlike Lithiums.

What I would do is measure the voltage after a full charge and it should be at or close to 100%, the green bubble should also be visible if not I'd replace it, just get one from Nissan, someone who knows about the Leaf.

Soarer

Cheers Mad Lad.

I still can't see this infamous green bubble that people are talking about!

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

Cheers Mad Lad.

I still can't see this infamous green bubble that people are talking about!

You cant find where it is or you dont see the green ball?

FYI: This is what you are looking for...
https://speakev.com/threads/nissan-leaf-12v-battery-totally-dead.19/page-8


Its possible your battery doesnt have it.

NIMAN

Anyone having any problems with the Nissan EV app today?

It hasn't worked all day for me, saying wrong id or password, which can't be as they are both stored and never change.

gunnerfitzy

NIMAN wrote: »

Anyone having any problems with the Nissan EV app today?

It hasn't worked all day for me, saying wrong id or password, which can't be as they are both stored and never change.

Exact same here!

NIMAN

Grand, will check in morning so.