Nissan Leaf

samih · 01-05-2018 1:17pm

KCross wrote: »

Yes, 132 or later but you could also see some 132's as Gen 1.... just look for that Eco button!

The electronic hand brake has been known to give trouble in Gen 1 cars and costs alot to fix out of warranty. They have reintroduced it for the new 40kWh Leaf though!

The new LEAF's electric handbrake will probably be better as they seem to have integrated the actuators in the brake callipers now while the original LEAF used cables driven by a motor which has been troublesome for some.

The 30 kWh battery only became an optional extra for 2016, first of cars registered probably in December 2015. There are a very few if any of them as 152 anyway and none before. The updated 24 kWh battery might turn out to be the best lasting battery of them all and much better lasting than the early ones on the Gen 1.

Edit: Range of 24 kWh is up to 140 km in summer on R/N roads and at the worst case about 80 km driven at high speed or against particularly heavy headwinds on the motorway in winter. A typical range is approx. 110-120 km on mixed driving and not exceeding a speed of 100 km/h.

waynegalway · 01-05-2018 1:22pm

KCross wrote: »

Excluding motorway speeds, 100-120km

That's an excellent answer! Right to the point, and about what I'm getting from my Gen1.5 24kWh LEAF.

The biggest killer for range is speed, simple.

OP: the range will drop in colder weather, hence the spread in range stated above. I've only had my LEAF since last November, so I haven't had a really good chance to try it out in warmer weather, but even now that we're getting into 12-15 degrees out, I can see a big difference. I reckon the car will do 130-140km on R roads in the summer.

Just one more thing to think about: try to get one with the 6.6kw charger built in. That will charge (roughly) twice as fast when you're out and about at the most common type of public charger. And if you get a faster charger for your house, it will charge at about twice the rate too. 6.6kw chargers were an optional extra, so don't expect many of them out there, and when you do find one, be prepared to pay a bit of a premium (I believe they were in the region of €1000 extra when the cars were new, so budget for €500 above the standard version second hand). Well worth it, though.

01-05-2018 1:27pm

What year is it ? what will you do with it ? new battery ?

from_atozinc · 01-05-2018 1:28pm

KCross wrote: »

It was in mid 2013 that Sunderland starting producing Leafs (aka Gen 1.5) and you can tell by the presence of an Eco button on the steering wheel and a foot-brake instead of an electronic handbrake(on the center console).

There are a few other tell-tale signs like interior color generally being dark in the Gen 1.5 but the Eco button on the steering wheel is the best one.

The Gen 1.5 has a heat pump which results in you using less power to heat the cabin and so you get more range as a result.

The battery is also considered better from a degradation point of view.

All in all, if you have the budget buy a Gen 1.5.

What kWh battery has the gen 1 versus 1.5 ?

DrPhilG · 01-05-2018 1:28pm

waynegalway wrote: »

(I believe they were in the region of €1000 extra when the cars were new, so budget for €500 above the standard version second hand). Well worth it, though.

Depends where you are shopping. I don't think too many dealers are clued in enough to realise the value of the 6.6 charger. Many non-EV specialists don't even realise if the car has it or not.

waynegalway · 01-05-2018 1:31pm

from_atozinc wrote: »

What kWh battery has the gen 1 versus 1.5 ?

Both 24kWh around the time that you're thinking of. The 30kWh introduced in late 2015 was also technically Gen1.5, though.

waynegalway · 01-05-2018 1:32pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Depends where you are shopping. I don't think too many dealers are clued in enough to realise the value of the 6.6 charger. Many non-EV specialists don't even realise if the car has it or not.

That's true!

If you can find a 6.6 under the radar at 3.3 prices, that would be a good find!

I'd say most, if not all Nissan dealers will recognise and price accordingly, though. You'll pay a premium at the main dealer for either version. No real need to pay the extra at a dealer, unless the car is out of manufacturer warranty and they're offering a special deal for in-house warranty.

DrPhilG · 01-05-2018 1:33pm

What's your budget OP?

babybuilder · 01-05-2018 1:37pm

KCross wrote: »

Yes, 132 or later but you could also see some 132's as Gen 1.... just look for that Eco button!

The electronic hand brake has been known to give trouble in Gen 1 cars and costs alot to fix out of warranty. They have reintroduced it for the new 40kWh Leaf though!

Electronic handbrake only in 2018 SVE model.

samih · 01-05-2018 1:41pm

waynegalway wrote: »

Both 24kWh around the time that the OP is shopping for. The 30kWh introduced in late 2015 was also technically Gen1.5, though.

The difference in capacity is that the Gen 1.5 typically still has over 20 kWh usable out of 21.5ish when new whereas the older batteries would typically be down to around 16 kWh usable now. The newer batteries also seem to really slow down degrading at some stage around 90 percent mark whereas the older ones continue relentlessly to lose capacity.

The newer cars also typically come with a heat pump heating and even the resistive heating is more efficient than the older type on short trips as it heats up the air directly instead of a volume of coolant. This all adds up and in practice the 1.5 has much better range even when both are "24 kWh".

waynegalway · 01-05-2018 1:49pm

samih wrote: »

The difference in capacity is that the Gen 1.5 typically still has over 20 kWh usable out of 21.5ish when new whereas the older batteries would typically be down to around 16 kWh usable now. The newer batteries also seem to really slow down degrading at some stage around 90 percent mark whereas the older ones continue relentlessly to lose capacity.

The newer cars also typically come with a heat pump heating and even the resistive heating is more efficient than the older type on short trips as it heats up the air directly instead of a volume of coolant. This all adds up and in practice the 1.5 has much better range even when both are "24 kWh".

Oh, yeah, I agree with all that. I hadn't thought about degradation, but you're right. At the time they were both new, they both had 24kWh, but yes, the newer ones will most likely still have more of that available, and have better range.

Bottom line, OP, if your daily commute is less than about 70-80km and you're absolutely sure that don't need more, then a Gen 1 will suit your needs and you'll probably pick up a great bargain. However, if you need 100-120km range, then you'll have to go Gen 1.5 if the budget allows.

EV choice really comes down to personal circumstances. A reduced range Gen 1 might suit someone perfectly well. In the longer term, though, Gen 1.5 is the way to go if you can afford it.

KCross · 01-05-2018 1:57pm

babybuilder wrote: »

Electronic handbrake only in 2018 SVE model.

No, its in the Gen 1 Japan built car as well.
The new 2018 model can have foot operated or electronic depending on whether you get ProPilot or not.

from_atozinc · 01-05-2018 1:59pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

What's your budget OP?

As little as possible

but want to get the gen 1.5

Soarer · 01-05-2018 2:08pm

She's 2011 and has 166k kms on the clock.

I'll hand her down to the parents once I trade up. They probably do 80kms per week, so would suit them perfectly.

Shefwedfan · 01-05-2018 2:13pm

from_atozinc wrote: »

As little as possible but want to get the gen 1.5

Why? the Leaf 1 can be perfect for some people.

You can probably pick up cheaper and with low mileage.

Nobody knows how good/bad the battery is from Leaf 1 to 1.5, sure only recently they said the 30kWh has bad degradation....

Even the Leaf 2.0 has issues with the battery.

All I am saying is dont get hung up on Gen 1 v Gen 1.5. Or the 3.3kw charger v the 6.6kw charger.

Why not explain your usage and what you need car for so you can get some recommendations.

You might pay 2-3k more for a 1.5 gen and end up with exactly the same degradation as you would with the Gen 1

waynegalway · 01-05-2018 2:53pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why? the Leaf 1 can be perfect for some people.

All I am saying is dont get hung up on Gen 1 v Gen 1.5. Or the 3.3kw charger v the 6.6kw charger.

Why not explain your usage and what you need car for so you can get some recommendations.

Agreed. Horses for courses on Gen 1 versus Gen 1.5

I would argue that a 6.6kw charger is important, though. But again, it depends on use case.

I know that a 3.3 is fine if you intend to do your charging overnight, for instance. But for me, the 6.6 is essential as I can get more when I'm at a public charger, plus I can charge for an hour when I get home in case I need to go out again.

But that's just in my case, and is my preference.

01-05-2018 3:04pm

A heat pump isn't effective from about 5 degrees and below and all preheating and warm up is done via the resistive heater anyway.

But the higher the temp the better it's performance, small heat pumps have their limitations.

Shefwedfan · 01-05-2018 3:07pm

waynegalway wrote: »

Agreed. Horses for courses on Gen 1 versus Gen 1.5

I would argue that a 6.6kw charger is important, though. But again, it depends on use case.

I know that a 3.3 is fine if you intend to do your charging overnight, for instance. But for me, the 6.6 is essential as I can get more when I'm at a public charger, plus I can charge for an hour when I get home in case I need to go out again.

But that's just in my case, and is my preference.

I have a 3.3kw in my eGolf. Never had a requirement to need a faster charger yet and I have car 400 days now....it has a 26kWh battery

If I went for new eGolf which has larger battery then yes I can potentially see the requirement but that would be it

from_atozinc · 01-05-2018 3:27pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why? the Leaf 1 can be perfect for some people.

You can probably pick up cheaper and with low mileage.

Nobody knows how good/bad the battery is from Leaf 1 to 1.5, sure only recently they said the 30kWh has bad degradation....

Even the Leaf 2.0 has issues with the battery.

All I am saying is dont get hung up on Gen 1 v Gen 1.5. Or the 3.3kw charger v the 6.6kw charger.

Why not explain your usage and what you need car for so you can get some recommendations.

You might pay 2-3k more for a 1.5 gen and end up with exactly the same degradation as you would with the Gen 1

Hey, I know feck all about these cars but from whats been said, I kinda am hung up on the gen 1 V gen 1.5 as the gen 1.5 just seems a lot better, some quotes below.

But open to Gen 1 too - if its not too bad of an option.

"The newer batteries also seem to really slow down degrading at some stage around 90 percent mark whereas the older ones continue relentlessly to lose capacity."

"The newer cars also typically come with a heat pump heating and even the resistive heating is more efficient than the older type on short trips as it heats up the air directly instead of a volume of coolant. This all adds up and in practice the 1.5 has much better range even when both are "24 kWh"."

waynegalway · 01-05-2018 3:30pm

from_atozinc wrote: »

Hey, I know feck all about these cars but from whats been said, I kinda am hung up on the gen 1 V gen 1.5 as the gen 1.5 just seems a lot better, some quotes below.

But open to Gen 1 too - if its not too bad of an option.

"The newer batteries also seem to really slow down degrading at some stage around 90 percent mark whereas the older ones continue relentlessly to lose capacity."

"The newer cars also typically come with a heat pump heating and even the resistive heating is more efficient than the older type on short trips as it heats up the air directly instead of a volume of coolant. This all adds up and in practice the 1.5 has much better range even when both are "24 kWh"."

Can you tell us a bit more about your daily routine for driving?

As has been said above, your use-case will dictate the car you should go for. For example, If you're just tipping around town, 40-50km a day, with a charge point installed at home, then a Gen 1 is a no-brainer for the kind of money you'd pay for it.

peposhi · 01-05-2018 3:39pm

waynegalway wrote: »

Can you tell us a bit more about your daily routine for driving?

As has been said above, your use-case will dictate the car you should go for. For example, If you're just tipping around town, 40-50km a day, with a charge point installed at home, then a Gen 1 is a no-brainer for the kind of money you'd pay for it.

And you can get one for as little as 8.5-9k...

from_atozinc · 01-05-2018 3:50pm

waynegalway wrote: »

Can you tell us a bit more about your daily routine for driving?

As has been said above, your use-case will dictate the car you should go for. For example, If you're just tipping around town, 40-50km a day, with a charge point installed at home, then a Gen 1 is a no-brainer for the kind of money you'd pay for it.

I drive to work 3 days a week.
journey is 13 miles - one way. so 26 miles a day.
first 2 miles takes 5 minutes to get on the motorway
Then next 8 miles is motorway at 120km. 10 minutes.
last 2/3 miles is normally traffic and can take up to 30 minutes

Then use car at weekend for sauntering around.

5-6 times a year may have to drive to Dublin airport with work.
and then a few other long drives throughout the year too. like over 100 miles.

AstraMonti · 01-05-2018 4:37pm

Question for you guys. I have a 2012 which has lost one bar. I charged it fully (car and app was saying 100%), but LeafSpy is reporting that it was 91.2% charged. Is that because of the lost bar or something else going on?

KCross · 01-05-2018 4:47pm

AstraMonti wrote: »

Question for you guys. I have a 2012 which has lost one bar. I charged it fully (car and app was saying 100%), but LeafSpy is reporting that it was 91.2% charged. Is that because of the lost bar or something else going on?

Thats normal. The car never actually lets the battery go to 100% or 0%. To do so is bad for them.

AstraMonti · 01-05-2018 4:54pm

KCross wrote: »

Thats normal. The car never actually lets the battery go to 100% or 0%. To do so is bad for them.

Interesting thanks, on my friend's Leaf I 've seen even 101.something%.

Shefwedfan · 01-05-2018 4:58pm

from_atozinc wrote: »

I drive to work 3 days a week.
journey is 13 miles - one way. so 26 miles a day.
first 2 miles takes 5 minutes to get on the motorway
Then next 8 miles is motorway at 120km. 10 minutes.
last 2/3 miles is normally traffic and can take up to 30 minutes

Then use car at weekend for sauntering around.

5-6 times a year may have to drive to Dublin airport with work.

Really for your driving the Gen 1 will do the exact same as the Gen 1.5....

No idea where you start to get to Dublin but if outside range of Gen 1.5 then outside range of Gen 1

I got my mother a Gen 1, the only "issue" she has is the heating is a bit slow to heat up, but no issue in morning as preheat is available. It is only after pre-heat. Most of her journeys are less than 2-3km so it doesn't get time to heat up before she gets out. Not a huge issue

After that the car is perfect, low mileage, full battery and does exactly what it is supposed to do. We could have spent another 3-4k and got a Gen 1.5 but for what? as I mentioned nobody has any idea about the battery degradation, it is all a guess game at the moment

P.S She is 70 and the car could be 30 degrees and she still would be cold in winter :-)

KCross · 01-05-2018 4:59pm

AstraMonti wrote: »

Interesting thanks, on my friend's Leaf I 've seen even 101.something%.

That would be the SOH or HX figures... they can be over 100%.

The SOC is always less than 100% in Leafspy.

from_atozinc · 01-05-2018 5:19pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Really for your driving the Gen 1 will do the exact same as the Gen 1.5....

No idea where you start to get to Dublin but if outside range of Gen 1.5 then outside range of Gen 1

I got my mother a Gen 1, the only "issue" she has is the heating is a bit slow to heat up, but no issue in morning as preheat is available. It is only after pre-heat. Most of her journeys are less than 2-3km so it doesn't get time to heat up before she gets out. Not a huge issue

After that the car is perfect, low mileage, full battery and does exactly what it is supposed to do. We could have spent another 3-4k and got a Gen 1.5 but for what? as I mentioned nobody has any idea about the battery degradation, it is all a guess game at the moment

P.S She is 70 and the car could be 30 degrees and she still would be cold in winter :-)

thanks

my journey to Dublin is 120 miles.

Also, the charging points at home. you can do a standard 3 pin plug. and then you have the option to install another special charger, what is this plug like here? is it a totally different cable

What are the plugs/cables in the publicly run esb stations?

Just to have it in one post can someone summarize the gen 1 v gen 1.5

Gen 1: 109 PS. When you open the flap how many charging ports are there, 1 or 2. can it only be charged via a 3 pin plug. this is 3.3 kwh, which I think means slower to charge times

Gen 1.5: also 109 ps. has an improved heating system so better range. how many charging ports under the flap? this is 6.6 kwh which I think means faster charging times.

Shefwedfan · 01-05-2018 5:49pm

My point is dont get hung up or charged a fortune for a Gen 1.5 if you can get a good value Gen 1. Have a look what is in market place and then ask for a recommendation here.,,..

you can charge from a standard plug, it just takes longer and you need a granny cable.

You then can get charger installer, you get grant for this. It just a big round plug socket.

The ESB charge points have a slow charger and you bring your cable from home and plug into it. Then a fast charger which the cable is connected and you just plug in. Fast charger will take 20-30 to full charge and the preferred option. Slow charger will be around the same as at home

waynegalway · 01-05-2018 5:51pm

from_atozinc wrote: »

thanks

my journey to Dublin is 120 miles.

Also, the charging points at home. you can do a standard 3 pin plug. and then you have the option to install another special charger, what is this plug like here? is it a totally different cable

What are the plugs/cables in the publicly run esb stations?

Just to have it in one post can someone summarize the gen 1 v gen 1.5

Gen 1: 109 PS. When you open the flap how many charging ports are there, 1 or 2. can it only be charged via a 3 pin plug. this is 3.3 kwh, which I think means slower to charge times

Gen 1.5: also 109 ps. has an improved heating system so better range. how many charging ports under the flap? this is 6.6 kwh which I think means faster charging times.

This post might answer some of these questions for you:

https://waynegibbons.wordpress.com/electric-vehicle-qa/

Wayne

Nissan Leaf

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