Nissan Leaf

tonbinn

waynegalway wrote: »

Apart from the "couple of road trips per year", it sounds like you'd be a good candidate for an EV. I won't get onto my soapbox about hybrids and plug-in hyrbids, but it's worth saying that if your driving pattern suits a pure EV, then getting anything less is a bit of a false economy.

How long would your road trips be, and have you looked at the ecars website to see if there are rapid chargers along your route? Would the EV be the only car in the house, or have you an ICE car that you can use for the odd longer trip? Would the train be an option for the longer trips? If these trips are really only a couple of times a year, you could even perhaps justify hiring a car for the day, and you'd still have saved money over the course of the year.

Good ideas and advice, thanks. EV would be the only car, thats why i mentioned plug in. Another thought i had was to join gocar.ie for the longer trips but I dont know how feasible this is.

from_atozinc

If one had a range of 50km
And then sat in really bad traffic for 1 hour and moved only 5k.........would the range drop to 45km OR would it drop way more due to the time sitting there etc?

ELM327

from_atozinc wrote: »

If one had a range of 50km
And then sat in really bad traffic for 1 hour and moved only 5k.........would the range drop to 45km OR would it drop way more due to the time sitting there etc?

It would drop according to the electricity drawn by the ancillaries

But exponentially less than an ICE as there's no engine to keep running

slave1

slave1 wrote: »

A number of specialist companies are bringing the cars in, ok they are adding a small margin but it is nothing major. You also get the added benefit of their experience of picking the right electric car....

Agreed, but what might look like a small margin to us could be a lot bigger if they are sourcing from auction

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So you are complaining because they are buying at a lower cost so they can pass on to us(the buyer) at a decent cost while still putting some bread on the table????

I am fully aware they are not buying at street value, but I am also fully aware they need to make a living

LOL

"Agreed, but what might look like a small margin to us could be a lot bigger if they are sourcing from auction"

That's complaining?

Hey OP, another point perhaps worth pointing out is to avoid the basic level Leaf, you miss out on a lot of features (Sat Nav, cruise control etc.) and if your budget can stretch go for the mid range (known as Acenta in the UK and I think the SV model here).
Not that I'm complaining about the basic model...

Shefwedfan

slave1 wrote: »

LOL

"Agreed, but what might look like a small margin to us could be a lot bigger if they are sourcing from auction"

That's complaining?
.

Ok not complaining.....moaning, yes moaning is a better word:D

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

If one had a range of 50km
And then sat in really bad traffic for 1 hour and moved only 5k.........would the range drop to 45km OR would it drop way more due to the time sitting there etc?

Things like the radio, satnav, lights etc. are run off the normal 12v car battery, and so won't have any noticeable effect on range if you're stationary in traffic.

If it's raining, the wipers will draw a small amount, but again, hardly noticable in reality. Also, heating and A/C will draw from the main batteries, and will have a small effect, but in 1 hour and in slow moving, I'd say you'd loose a 4-5% at most. Just open a window if you get hot! In the middle of winter, I'd turn on preheating in my car before getting into it, and it would warm the car from perhaps 1 or 2 degrees up to 25 degrees.....that took about 15 minutes of intense heating and drew about 3% from the main batteries. You're not likely to need as intense heating/cooling in the hour you're stuck in traffic, so your battery drain will most likely be in the order of 4-5% at most from heating or A/C.

So, if you're not moving, you're not draining the batteries, effectively. Moving 5km slowly in a traffic jam will only take 5km off your overall range. Unless you've got heating/cooling on, in which case you'll lose a few more, but then you would in an ICE car too if you had heating/cooling on.

ELM327

waynegalway wrote: »

Things like the radio, satnav, lights etc. are run off the normal 12v car battery, and so won't have any noticeable effect on range if you're stationary in traffic.

If it's raining, the wipers will draw a small amount, but again, hardly noticable in reality. Also, heating and A/C will draw from the main batteries, and will have a small effect, but in 1 hour and in slow moving, I'd say you'd loose a 4-5% at most. Just open a window if you get hot! In the middle of winter, I'd turn on preheating in my car before getting into it, and it would warm the car from perhaps 1 or 2 degrees up to 25 degrees.....that took about 15 minutes of intense heating and drew about 3% from the main batteries. You're not likely to need as intense heating/cooling in the hour you're stuck in traffic, so your battery drain will most likely be in the order of 4-5% at most from heating or A/C.

So, if you're not moving, you're not draining the batteries, effectively. Moving 5km slowly in a traffic jam will only take 5km off your overall range. Unless you've got heating/cooling on, in which case you'll lose a few more, but then you would in an ICE car too if you had heating/cooling on.

Yes but this is replenished through the traction battery, so it does have some impact

In my leaf when stationary with the heat pump on and the radio, lights etc the total draw was between 1.5kW and 6kW. If we average it out at say 3kW, that's 3kWh per hour or 13% of usable capacity.

from_atozinc

waynegalway wrote: »

Things like the radio, satnav, lights etc. are run off the normal 12v car battery, and so won't have any noticeable effect on range if you're stationary in traffic.

If it's raining, the wipers will draw a small amount, but again, hardly noticable in reality. Also, heating and A/C will draw from the main batteries, and will have a small effect, but in 1 hour and in slow moving, I'd say you'd loose a 4-5% at most. Just open a window if you get hot! In the middle of winter, I'd turn on preheating in my car before getting into it, and it would warm the car from perhaps 1 or 2 degrees up to 25 degrees.....that took about 15 minutes of intense heating and drew about 3% from the main batteries. You're not likely to need as intense heating/cooling in the hour you're stuck in traffic, so your battery drain will most likely be in the order of 4-5% at most from heating or A/C.

So, if you're not moving, you're not draining the batteries, effectively. Moving 5km slowly in a traffic jam will only take 5km off your overall range. Unless you've got heating/cooling on, in which case you'll lose a few more, but then you would in an ICE car too if you had heating/cooling on.

Thanks, I know it was strange kind of a question but was just wondering how it would perform in bad traffic, if it drained quickly etc.

waynegalway

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but this is replenished through the traction battery, so it does have some impact

In my leaf when stationary with the heat pump on and the radio, lights etc the total draw was between 1.5kW and 6kW. If we average it out at say 3kW, that's 3kWh per hour or 13% of usable capacity.

Yep, it will have some impact, but barely noticeable.

My "stationary" draw differs from your by a fair amount. As I mentioned, pre-heating takes about 3%, over a 20 minute period, so say 9% over the hour. In reality, the draw would drop off after about 30 minutes as the cabin will have reached the target temperature and the system will automatically go into intermittent mode. So, likely to be maybe 7% over an hour. I have preheat set to 25 degrees, and obviously if it was set to say 21 or 22 it would draw less power.

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks, I know it was strange kind of a question but was just wondering how it would perform in bad traffic, if it drained quickly etc.

It's a fair question. Short answer is, yes it will drain, but by nowhere near as much as an ICE car will.

ELM327

waynegalway wrote: »

Yep, it will have some impact, but barely noticeable.

My "stationary" draw differs from your by a fair amount. As I mentioned, pre-heating takes about 3%, over a 20 minute period, so say 9% over the hour. In reality, the draw would drop off after about 30 minutes as the cabin will have reached the target temperature and the system will automatically go into intermittent mode. So, likely to be maybe 7% over an hour. I have preheat set to 25 degrees, and obviously if it was set to say 21 or 22 it would draw less power.

Are you using Leafspy to monitor the data showing energy usage?
Because the OBC is not always showing accurate data.

waynegalway

ELM327 wrote: »

Are you using Leafspy to monitor the data showing energy usage?
Because the OBC is not always showing accurate data.

I’d love to get LeafSpy, but I hear conflicting reports about which hardware works best. If you can recommend one, I’d be delighted.

So I’m basing my figures off the dashboard. Can’t see it being out by 6%, if you’re seeing 13 and I’m seeing 7. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s seems like a very big discrepancy.

ELM327

waynegalway wrote: »

I’d love to get LeafSpy, but I hear conflicting reports about which hardware works best. If you can recommend one, I’d be delighted.

So I’m basing my figures off the dashboard. Can’t see it being out by 6%, if you’re seeing 13 and I’m seeing 7. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s seems like a very big discrepancy.

I mean to be frank my 13% was a crude back of napkin calculation based on usage figures observed last winter.

Leafspy should work with an ELM327 adapter, you need WIFI one for iOS and bluetooth for android.

from_atozinc

another silly question.
So normal ICE cars can ball park figure do 15,000 miles a year and not much notice is taken.

With these electric cars, is 15,000 miles a year a lot or not much notice taken.

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

another silly question.
So normal ICE cars can ball park figure do 15,000 miles a year and not much notice is taken.

With these electric cars, is 15,000 miles a year a lot or not much notice taken.

How do you mean?

I’ve had mine for 6 months or so and I’ve done 10,000km in that time. The only thing that I expect to have to deal with in the next year or so is tire wear.

DrPhilG

I do about 16k miles a year.

from_atozinc

waynegalway wrote: »

How do you mean?

I’ve had mine for 6 months or so and I’ve done 10,000km in that time. The only thing that I expect to have to deal with in the next year or so is tire wear.

Suppose I mean do these electric cars have a less robust engine and can they handle the same mileage per year as a normal ICE car.

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Suppose I mean do these electric cars have a less robust engine and can they handle the same mileage per year as a normal ICE car.

Less moving parts, less service costs and lower service costs....

VW struggled to find anything to do with mine apart from a software update and then changed some brake oil which didn't need changing but I let them because it was a UK import....

next time they will just do software updates....maybe change the wipers

unkel

from_atozinc wrote: »

Suppose I mean do these electric cars have a less robust engine and can they handle the same mileage per year as a normal ICE car.

Engine and drivetrain can handle for more mileage than ICE car

My own car had its first year service done. Costs €0.00 as it was only an inspection, nothing needed to be changed. Even brakes lasts much longer in EVs as most of the braking is reversing the engine and charging the battery, rather than just heat / friction braking of pads and disks rubbing together like on an ICE

I'd say the average EV needs pads every 200k km and disks every 400k km

from_atozinc

Just to double check something. the whole 6.6kw charger versus 3.3 Kw charger.

The only thing this allows is quicker charging, correct?

i.e. no direct impact on range, car horse power etc

Round Cable

from_atozinc wrote: »

Just to double check something. the whole 6.6kw charger versus 3.3 Kw charger.

The only thing this allows is quicker charging, correct?

i.e. no direct impact on range, car horse power etc

Exactly, it only impacts the charging speed/time.

creedp

from_atozinc wrote: »

Just to double check something. the whole 6.6kw charger versus 3.3 Kw charger.

The only thing this allows is quicker charging, correct?

i.e. no direct impact on range, car horse power etc

I find the 6.6kw option very useful for public AC charge points, e.g. today I topped up my battery by 27% in a hour using an ecars on street unit. This will be sufficient to meet my needs for the remainder of the day. With the 3.3kw charger I would need to top up again at some point in the evening which I don't have time for.

from_atozinc

Round Cable wrote: »

Exactly, it only impacts the charging speed/time.

Thanks, and another thing, the 3.3 V 6.6 charger does NOT impact on the rapid charging capability?

ELM327

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks, and another thing, the 3.3 V 6.6 charger does NOT impact on the rapid charging capability?

Correct
It's just for AC charging. (Slow charging)

from_atozinc

ELM327 wrote: »

Correct
It's just for AC charging. (Slow charging)

Thanks, so what do people generally feel here. is it worth it to get the 6.6 KW car charger?

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks, and another thing, the 3.3 V 6.6 charger does NOT impact on the rapid charging capability?

Yes, but as someone pointed out the rapid charging port was an optional extra in early versions of the LEAF, so just keep that in mind if you're looking to get a Gen 1.

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks, so what do people generally feel here. is it worth it to get the 6.6 KW car charger?

In my opinion, and for the type of way I want to use my car, yes, 6.6kw is a must.

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks, so what do people generally feel here. is it worth it to get the 6.6 KW car charger?

If you are happy to charge over night and you know that that will do you, then 3.3 is fine.

If, however, you would like more bang for your buck when topping up for an hour at home in between journeys, or if you have an hour to spare in town and you can top up there, then you'll get more range out of a 1-hour charge with a 6.6kw charger.

In very rough terms:

The 24kWh Leaf has about 22kW that usable. So (and this is an over-simplification because of inefficiencies in the system, and as batteries get nearly full the charge rate slows down), a 3.3kW charger will take about (22 divided by 3.3) 7 hours to charge from flat to full. A 6.6kW version will do that in about 3.5 hours. In practice, this is more like 8 hours versus 4 hours.

Another way to think of it:

Let's say the car can do 120km on a full charge, working off 22kWh.
In one hour on a 3.3kW charger, the car will gain about 15% battery capacity. That equates to about 18km range in an hour. A 6.6kW charger using the same maths will give about 36km range for a 1-hour charge.

ELM327

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks, so what do people generally feel here. is it worth it to get the 6.6 KW car charger?

I had it on my 24kWh and I wouldnt get a leaf without it.
25% added in 1 hour, versus about 12 in the slower one.

Means if you're away for 2 hours at a shopping centre or afternoon/evening out you can probably skip the fast charger on the way home.

Also... if a fast charger is broken, it's much quicker using a nearby SCP with the 6.6 vs 3.3

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

I drive to work 3 days a week.
journey is 13 miles - one way. so 26 miles a day.
first 2 miles takes 5 minutes to get on the motorway
Then next 8 miles is motorway at 120km. 10 minutes.
last 2/3 miles is normally traffic and can take up to 30 minutes

Then use car at weekend for sauntering around.

5-6 times a year may have to drive to Dublin airport with work.
and then a few other long drives throughout the year too. like over 100 miles.

Based on these requirement the 6.6kW would be a nice to have and not anything that would be essential.

You will be charging 95% of the time from home and when going to airport you will be using fast chargers.....

Personally if the 6.6kW is extra I wouldn't bother with it