Nissan Leaf

waynegalway

It's not a massive amount extra you'd have to pay to get a 6.6 version over a 3.3 in the 2nd hand market.

For example, this 2015 6.6 is €15k

And this 3.3 from the same dealer (with slightly more mileage) is €14.5

There's a 2014 Tekna (that's the top spec OP) with 6.6 charger on there for €14k, and a 2014 Acenta with 3.3 charger for €13.5

So I'd say the premium is about €500 for the 6.6, and for me, that's money well spent. The problem is not so much one of the extra cost (assuming that €500 extra is do-able), but that there are just fewer 6.6 versions out there. Especially in the UK, where the rapid charge network is so good that many buyers didn't see the need for the upgrade.

from_atozinc

waynegalway wrote: »

It's not a massive amount extra you'd have to pay to get a 6.6 version over a 3.3 in the 2nd hand market.

For example, this 2015 6.6 is €15k

And this 3.3 from the same dealer (with slightly more mileage) is €14.5

There's a 2014 Tekna (that's the top spec OP) with 6.6 charger on there for €14k, and a 2014 Acenta with 3.3 charger for €13.5

So I'd say the premium is about €500 for the 6.6, and for me, that's money well spent. The problem is not so much one of the extra cost (assuming that €500 extra is do-able), but that there are just fewer 6.6 versions out there. Especially in the UK, where the rapid charge network is so good that many buyers didn't see the need for the upgrade.

Thanks. Thing is I’m doing this as a cost saving exercise. So was looking at 2012 cars.
Getting the 6.6 means coming up to most likely 132 reg cars.
So a couple thousand more.

ELM327

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks. Thing is I’m doing this as a cost saving exercise. So was looking at 2012 cars.
Getting the 6.6 means coming up to most likely 132 reg cars.
So a couple thousand more.

2012 cars are going to suffer a lot more degradation, quickly, due to inferior cells and BMS compared to the lizard battery from 2014 onwards.

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks. Thing is I’m doing this as a cost saving exercise. So was looking at 2012 cars.
Getting the 6.6 means coming up to most likely 132 reg cars.
So a couple thousand more.

Well sure it's simple so.

Just stick to your budget and get the best one you can for that. There's no point beating yourself up over different models if your budget doesn't allow for those models.

from_atozinc

waynegalway wrote: »

Well sure it's simple so.

Just stick to your budget and get the best one you can for that. There's no pint beating yourself up over different models if your budget doesn't allow for those models.

true, but then I read the comment form ELM above and its making me consider a newer car.

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

true, but then I read the comment form ELM above and its making me consider a newer car.

Look, the bottom line is that the Gen 1.5 cars are technically better in many ways, and are likely to be worth a bit more down the line when you want to change.

Your driving patterns suggest that a Gen 1 might suit you fine, but now you're becoming aware of the limitations of that version.

If your budget only goes as far as a Gen 1, then go for that, and you'll most likely be happy.

If your budget can go to a Gen 1.5, then go for that, and you'll most likely be happier.

from_atozinc

The pricing in this country wrecks me head

2 very similar cars. and yet nearly 3000 euro between them



https://www.donedeal.co.uk/cars-for-sale/2013-nissan-leaf-109ps/18427272

https://www.donedeal.co.uk/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-2013/18400483

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

2012 cars are going to suffer a lot more degradation, quickly, due to inferior cells and BMS compared to the lizard battery from 2014 onwards.

I think if you go back 2 pages that was already discussed

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

The pricing in this country wrecks me head

2 very similar cars. and yet nearly 3000 euro between them



https://www.donedeal.co.uk/cars-for-sale/2013-nissan-leaf-109ps/18427272

https://www.donedeal.co.uk/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-2013/18400483

Ok the first car is from some dealer who hasn't even bothered to write down which version of the Leaf it is. Having a sign with mobile number only says it all:D

Its the small things as well, the charger cable is just f**ked into the boot....electric autos supply a charger bag.....the back ground on the dodgy dealer is in some warehouse estate???? also I have taken better photos of a car than those....looks like they just kept taking photos from phone and threw them up

A couple of these "companies" have started up now to try and make a fast buck from electric cars, all over priced, all buying from UK....probably over priced

I know I got digs earlier but second one is electric autos. Ask on IEVOA facebook webpage if you are in doubt

I know which I would be buying.....lets put it this way, Electric Autos had Leaf 2 for sale before the Nissan dealers had

P.S. Whoever asked if I make money from Electric autos, yes of course I do....10 cents on the euro:o

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

The pricing in this country wrecks me head

2 very similar cars. and yet nearly 3000 euro between them



https://www.donedeal.co.uk/cars-for-sale/2013-nissan-leaf-109ps/18427272

https://www.donedeal.co.uk/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-2013/18400483

I'd say the first one is over priced. The second one is being sold by a specialist who knows exactly what they're selling and what it's worth.

It would be crazy to spend €11-12k on a Gen 1, when another €1-1.5k would get a Gen 1.5.

Shefwedfan

You should note electric autos will deliver anywhere in country

I bought Leaf as present for my mum and they delivered the day of it, meant it arrived fully charged and pristine....the offer of a big bow was rejected :-)

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think if you go back 2 pages that was already discussed

I think if you go back 2 pages it was not.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057867739&page=5
If you're going to get bitchy then at least get your facts straight

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

I think if you go back 2 pages it was not.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057867739&page=5
If you're going to get bitchy then at least get your facts straight

Not been bitchy....

As mentioned 2 pages ago nobody has no idea how or which battery will have better/worse degradation.

Only a few weeks ago it was mentioned the 30kWh battery had bad degradation......maybe in 5-10 years after cars have been on roads for years will they have enough data to show what is good/bad battery

The Gen 1 Leaf has nothing wrong with it......especially for the OP who is doing lots of short journeys

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not been bitchy....

As mentioned 2 pages ago nobody has no idea how or which battery will have better/worse degradation.

Only a few weeks ago it was mentioned the 30kWh battery had bad degradation......maybe in 5-10 years after cars have been on roads for years will they have enough data to show what is good/bad battery

The Gen 1 Leaf has nothing wrong with it......especially for the OP who is doing lots of short journeys

The gen 1 (2013 and before) will suffer more rapid deg compared with the 24kWh onwards - are you refuting this?

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

The gen 1 (2013 and before) will suffer more rapid deg compared with the 24kWh onwards - are you refuting this?

I forgot we have a forum full of battery engineers!!!

As per previous comments, nobody is 100% sure which battery is good/bad/indifferent. A thread is on here about the 30kWh battery having higher degradation

Remember the Leaf 2 has no issue according to Nissan....but I see the Leaf 2 thread full of #rapidgate

The OP asked for recommendation, based on the profile of driving they submitted the Leaf 1 would meet there requirements perfect and get them on the road at a lower cost as they requested

The Leaf 1 is a perfectly good car, are you refuting that?

from_atozinc

Say I bought a 2011 leaf.
How many bars could that have lost now - 2 maybe .

Would the range on this be realistically about 50 miles?

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Say I bought a 2011 leaf.
How many bars could that have lost now - 2 maybe .

Would the range on this be realistically about 50 miles?

I bought a 2012....full bars. No idea of range to be honest.....

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I forgot we have a forum full of battery engineers!!!

As per previous comments, nobody is 100% sure which battery is good/bad/indifferent. A thread is on here about the 30kWh battery having higher degradation

Remember the Leaf 2 has no issue according to Nissan....but I see the Leaf 2 thread full of #rapidgate

The OP asked for recommendation, based on the profile of driving they submitted the Leaf 1 would meet there requirements perfect and get them on the road at a lower cost as they requested

The Leaf 1 is a perfectly good car, are you refuting that?

Who p1ssed in your cornflakes this morning. It's not an egolf i'm critiquing.:p

It is a good car once you are aware of its limitations, like one or two posters here who bought one for 5-6k.

The degradation stats and the reams of early leafs showing 11-9 bars or less, compared with the later 24kWh shows the difference between the two.

The 30kWh is a bit of an unknown right now as the earliest are only 2-2.5 years old.

I'm just hesitant to suggest a gen 1 leaf to someone as their first EV.

from_atozinc wrote: »

Say I bought a 2011 leaf.
How many bars could that have lost now - 2 maybe .

Would the range on this be realistically about 50 miles?

Could have lost none, or 4, or anything in between. 50 miles should be doable. But you'd want to be charging at the end.

KAGY

I'll just leave this here, I've pulled the data from about 50 cars on pistonheads. The only reason I've used that site is most of the info is shown in the ad preview.
For those of you who can't remember back to Leaving Cert the std dev is a measure of where 95% of the prices lie. I.E. for a 2015 24kW Acenta (SV) you'd expect 95% of the cars to be £11,242 plus or minus £358.

It looks like the tekna (SVE) loses it premium over the SV, and the 30kWhr battery commands about 4k more.

This was a bit of a pain to get, and it's only a small sample, so I was wondering if there's a better way to scrape similar data, or better yet, a web site that already has this info!

goz83

Hi OP.

I own a 2012 (Gen1) Acenta. I also own a 2014 (Gen1.5) Tekna. As an owner of the two cars you are discussing and with similar driving range, let me give you my opinion.

The Gen1 is a very capable car. I am seeing Gen1.5 cars with 1 or 2 bars gone, which is exactly where Gen1 cars are. My 2012 has 11 bars and my 2014 has 12. If the Gen1 covers your needs (and it sounds like it does, then why waste an extra 3-4k on a Gen1.5?

The 6.6OBC is nice to have, but unless you plan on doing slow public charging, then it is a non issue.....more so when the free public charging disappears. I own my Gen1.5 a year now. I have benefited from faster public charging on exactly zero occasions. I say this because I plugged in a few times to top-up when in town, but I would have had enough power to get home if I only had 3.3OBC. It's nice, but not necessary. On top of that, finding a 6.6 is not only more expensive, but it really limits your search. The car will charge just as fast at rapid chargers (when driving to the airport) and just as conveniently when parked in your garden. You will likely get night rate electricity and only charge overnight.

There aren't many deals to be had in the UK either. You might save €500 if spending under 10k, but unless the saving is at least 1k and the car is within 50 miles of the port, then imo, the trip is not worth the trouble.

I bought my 2014 car just north of London and bought my 2012 one in Kildare...both last year.

I also travelled over to the UK earlier this year to buy a 2014 Leaf for the inlaws.

Whatever you decide to buy, be sure to get a 32A home charger (EVSE). It costs the same as a 16A and the cars OBC will take whatever charge it is capable of, but you are future proofing for when you inevitably buy a car that will take a faster charge.

Keep looking on DD, Adverts, Carzone and wherever else. Good Luck.

Ozziej

How about this one

https://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/Nissan/Leaf-ACENTA--with-6.6kwh-charger/198959198044056

Is the charger and slight spec difference worth the premium. I don’t know much about these cars but wonder if the mileage is high for the price?

waynegalway

Ozziej wrote: »

How about this one

https://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/Nissan/Leaf-ACENTA--with-6.6kwh-charger/198959198044056

Is the charger and slight spec difference worth the premium. I don’t know much about these cars but wonder if the mileage is high for the price?

That mileage wouldn’t put me off at all. That’s a decent car for that price. You’d probably get a 2015 cheaper, but you’d be hard pressed to get one in that spec any cheaper.

There’s a few differences of opinion on the 6.6 versus the 3.3, but I’d always advocate for the 6.6 given the choice.

from_atozinc

goz83 wrote: »

Hi OP.

I own a 2012 (Gen1) Acenta. I also own a 2014 (Gen1.5) Tekna. As an owner of the two cars you are discussing and with similar driving range, let me give you my opinion.

The Gen1 is a very capable car. I am seeing Gen1.5 cars with 1 or 2 bars gone, which is exactly where Gen1 cars are. My 2012 has 11 bars and my 2014 has 12. If the Gen1 covers your needs (and it sounds like it does, then why waste an extra 3-4k on a Gen1.5?

The 6.6OBC is nice to have, but unless you plan on doing slow public charging, then it is a non issue.....more so when the free public charging disappears. I own my Gen1.5 a year now. I have benefited from faster public charging on exactly zero occasions. I say this because I plugged in a few times to top-up when in town, but I would have had enough power to get home if I only had 3.3OBC. It's nice, but not necessary. On top of that, finding a 6.6 is not only more expensive, but it really limits your search. The car will charge just as fast at rapid chargers (when driving to the airport) and just as conveniently when parked in your garden. You will likely get night rate electricity and only charge overnight.

There aren't many deals to be had in the UK either. You might save €500 if spending under 10k, but unless the saving is at least 1k and the car is within 50 miles of the port, then imo, the trip is not worth the trouble.

I bought my 2014 car just north of London and bought my 2012 one in Kildare...both last year.

I also travelled over to the UK earlier this year to buy a 2014 Leaf for the inlaws.

Whatever you decide to buy, be sure to get a 32A home charger (EVSE). It costs the same as a 16A and the cars OBC will take whatever charge it is capable of, but you are future proofing for when you inevitably buy a car that will take a faster charge.

Keep looking on DD, Adverts, Carzone and wherever else. Good Luck.

Goz. Thanks. Brilliant input.
Great to hear from someone that has a true experience of owning both at the same time.

It’s definitely given me extra food for thought........again.

I know a lot of talk is made about the lack of a 6.6 obc and then the heat pump, but sometimes one can read too much in to things. I’m
sure there are 100’s of gen 1 leaf owners that are oblivious to 6.6 and heat pumps etc

Is there much of a difference in the range of your gen 1 v gen 1.5 ?

goz83

from_atozinc wrote: »

Goz. Thanks. Brilliant input.
Great to hear from someone that has a true experience of owning both at the same time.

It’s definitely given me extra food for thought........again.

I know a lot of talk is made about the lack of a 6.6 obc and then the heat pump, but sometimes one can read too much in to things. I’m
sure there are 100’s of gen 1 leaf owners that are oblivious to 6.6 and heat pumps etc

Is there much of a difference in the range of your gen 1 v gen 1.5 ?

There is probably about a 10-15 km difference. The Gen1 is down 1 bar....probably will be down another bar this year. Most Gen1 cars are down 2 bars now. It still has more than enough mileage to get me or my OH a few days driving. I love driving either car and it doesn’t matter which one I have on a day to day basis.

I’d like to sell my Gen1 acenta and pick up another Tekna. I like the 360 reverse cameras in the Tekna. The Acenta just has a reverse camera. I love gadgets. I may wait until the 7 seater Env200 come down in price though.

from_atozinc

goz83 wrote: »

Whatever you decide to buy, be sure to get a 32A home charger (EVSE). It costs the same as a 16A and the cars OBC will take whatever charge it is capable of, but you are future proofing for when you inevitably buy a car that will take a faster charge.

Keep looking on DD, Adverts, Carzone and wherever else. Good Luck.

Is the 32A EVSE the thing that is installed on the wall at your home ?

How much does it cost to buy?
How much does it cost to install?
Do I need to then buy an extra cable to plug from this box in to car? How much is this cable or included when you buy the EVSE?

goz83

from_atozinc wrote: »

Is the 32A EVSE the thing that is installed on the wall at your home ?

Yes, that's the thing. a 16 and 32A will cost the same. The 32A needs thicker cable for more current depending on the length of cable needed.

How much does it cost to buy?

That depends on the unit you buy. On average, €500. I got a a Rolec tethered unit which has a handy 13A socket included. It cost about €500 and lets me charge both cars if I want. It's also used as a socket for hoover and power washer. Handy.



I also picked up a 32A unit with Kwh meter for the inlaws for about €350 on ebay.

You could get second hand units for €100ish.

How much does it cost to install?

Install charges will vary, so ring around. €200-€600. Any higher is extortion.

Do I need to then buy an extra cable to plug from this box in to car? How much is this cable or included when you buy the EVSE?

I prefer tethered EVSE. So it has a cable already. You just need the correct plug type (type 1 or 2). Now, if you have a type 1 plug and later need a type 2, you could always change out the tethered cable, much like putting a UK plug on an EU plug hair dryer.

You can get untethered too. You then use a cable to connect your car to the EVSE. The car should come with this. IMO, it's a pin in the arse having untethered, so I would recommend tethered.

The car should also have a granny cable. This is the one which connects the car to a standard 3 pin domestic socket. Most Irish sold cars won't have these. I think they are an essential back up....and good habit to occasionally charge the car with this.





I also forgot to mention that a significant amount of 1.5 Gen cars have a rear axel issue which causes it to fail the NCT. This is only coming to light now, because the 1.5 Gen are getting their first NCTs this year. I had the issue, only corrected this week. I got it covered by the Garage I bought from in the UK, but it was a real hassle. Kceire just failed the NCT on his yesterday. It's a €500-600 job and I wouldn't buy a 1.5 gen without proof the work was done, or a recent alignment check on the rear.

waynegalway

goz83 wrote: »

I also forgot to mention that a significant amount of 1.5 Gen cars have a rear axel issue which causes it to fail the NCT. This is only coming to light now, because the 1.5 Gen are getting their first NCTs this year. I had the issue, only corrected this week. I got it covered by the Garage I bought from in the UK, but it was a real hassle. Kceire just failed the NCT on his yesterday. It's a €500-600 job and I wouldn't buy a 1.5 gen without proof the work was done, or a recent alignment check on the rear.

I was aware of this when shopping around for mine last autumn. I paid a Nissan dealer to inspect the car (cost €80) before I bought it from a private seller. I made sure to mention the rear axle thing for them, and a visual inspection of tread wear on the rear tyres is an easy way to spot the problem. My car had 50,000km on it and it was reasonably clear based on wear that the tyres were most likely the originals. The tread depth was almost exactly equal on all tyres, so the garage was happy that there was no issue.

So, if you're unsure, get a dealer in inspect before you buy. Any genuine seller will be happy to let you do this.

Top tip!!!

If I could go back in time, I'd actually get the dealer to do a "service" before I bought. The inspection cost €80, and a few months later I paid €130 for a service which was almost entirely the same thing again (plus a pollen filter and a wash!). The service includes the type of inspection that you'd want to have done before buying, so spend the extra €50, but save overall!

NIMAN

My 2014, which I bought last autumn, sailed through its first NCT couple of weeks ago.

All I did was change the 2 front tyres, and give it a wash.

I must have been lucky and got one with no rear axle issue.

waynegalway

NIMAN wrote: »

My 2014, which I bought last autumn, sailed through its first NCT couple of weeks ago.

All I did was change the 2 front tyres, and give it a wash.

I must have been lucky and got one with no rear axle issue.

I think the axle issue is the exception rather than the rule. From reading UK forums, it seems to be a rare enough issue. Obviously, if it affects your car you’ll be more aware of it and you’ll find post after post after post about it, but overall I think it’s a problem in a small minority of cars.

from_atozinc

goz83 wrote: »

Yes, that's the thing. a 16 and 32A will cost the same. The 32A needs thicker cable for more current depending on the length of cable needed.



That depends on the unit you buy. On average, €500. I got a a Rolec tethered unit which has a handy 13A socket included. It cost about €500 and lets me charge both cars if I want. It's also used as a socket for hoover and power washer. Handy.



I also picked up a 32A unit with Kwh meter for the inlaws for about €350 on ebay.

You could get second hand units for €100ish.



Install charges will vary, so ring around. €200-€600. Any higher is extortion.



I prefer tethered EVSE. So it has a cable already. You just need the correct plug type (type 1 or 2). Now, if you have a type 1 plug and later need a type 2, you could always change out the tethered cable, much like putting a UK plug on an EU plug hair dryer.

You can get untethered too. You then use a cable to connect your car to the EVSE. The car should come with this. IMO, it's a pin in the arse having untethered, so I would recommend tethered.

The car should also have a granny cable. This is the one which connects the car to a standard 3 pin domestic socket. Most Irish sold cars won't have these. I think they are an essential back up....and good habit to occasionally charge the car with this.





I also forgot to mention that a significant amount of 1.5 Gen cars have a rear axel issue which causes it to fail the NCT. This is only coming to light now, because the 1.5 Gen are getting their first NCTs this year. I had the issue, only corrected this week. I got it covered by the Garage I bought from in the UK, but it was a real hassle. Kceire just failed the NCT on his yesterday. It's a €500-600 job and I wouldn't buy a 1.5 gen without proof the work was done, or a recent alignment check on the rear.

Thanks !
Are second hand charging units frowned upon?
Can you get the grant if you buy second hand or online?
Does the grant cover buying the EVSE and the electrician charges ?
Install charges seem quiet varied.

By tethered, do you mean. EVSE is on the wall -and then it has a permanent cable attached to it......and you just plug this cable in to car and then just hang up on wall again beside EVSE when done ?

Not sure what you mean by type 1 and type 2 plugs - is this to do with the EVSE end of things or the car side or both.