Nissan Leaf

ELM327

Speaking of Facebook, I can also suggest the Renault Zoe Owners Club. UK based predominantly but they are a great source of info,
RZOC

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

How does the Zoe have a longer range?
Better battrery or just lighter?

And how much longer - 10km or something is it?

Not sure on exact range differences. Given your aim of getting into an EV as cheaply as possible, you’d probably be looking at a Zoe with the older 22kwh battery. So, technically a smaller battery, but it’s also a smaller car so I think it will go a little further than a 24kWh LEAF.

Have a drive in both a Leaf and a Zoe and see what you think. In very broad terms, I felt that the Zoe was more of a “town” car. Although I haven’t driven one myself, I’ve also read that in terms of performance, it’s a bit slower than the Leaf. Not that you’d really want to be pushing it all the time, but I think a Leaf has a higher top speed too.

ELM327

waynegalway wrote: »

Not sure on exact range differences. Given your aim of getting into an EV as cheaply as possible, you’d probably be looking at a Zoe with the older 22kwh battery. So, technically a smaller battery, but it’s also a smaller car so I think it will go a little further than a 24kWh LEAF.

Have a drive in both a Leaf and a Zoe and see what you think. In very broad terms, I felt that the Zoe was more of a “town” car. Although I haven’t driven one myself, I’ve also read that in terms of performance, it’s a bit slower than the Leaf. Not that you’d really want to be pushing it all the time, but I think a Leaf has a higher top speed too.

Leaf is limited to 100 mph, 161km/h
Zoe is limited to 84mph. But has 10-15-20% more range depending on how/where you are driving.

Shefwedfan

waynegalway wrote: »

Not sure on exact range differences. Given your aim of getting into an EV as cheaply as possible, you’d probably be looking at a Zoe with the older 22kwh battery. So, technically a smaller battery, but it’s also a smaller car so I think it will go a little further than a 24kWh LEAF.

Have a drive in both a Leaf and a Zoe and see what you think. In very broad terms, I felt that the Zoe was more of a “town” car. Although I haven’t driven one myself, I’ve also read that in terms of performance, it’s a bit slower than the Leaf. Not that you’d really want to be pushing it all the time, but I think a Leaf has a higher top speed too.

Not a smaller battery. The 22kWh is what is available to use...

The Leaf has 24kWh battery but you cannot use some of that, it is in reserve.....I would guess both have 22kWh available to use for range

This was posted on forum by Jan Bart......so I am robbing his information.....

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not a smaller battery. The 22kWh is what is available to use...

The Leaf has 24kWh battery but you cannot use some of that, it is in reserve.....I would guess both have 22kWh available to use for range

This was posted on forum by Jan Bart......so I am robbing his information.....

After the BMS update in the Zoe, it allows slightly over 22kWh to be used from 100% SOC to empty.
I'd guess they have similar batteries, just Nissan state the gross capacity and renault state the net

goz83

from_atozinc wrote: »

What is meant by this battery rental thing. Seen the phrase but don’t know what it means in real world or
More so why one would choose to rent a battery in the first place.

Battery Rental or “flex” as it’s known for the Leaf means you can buy the car, but not the battery. This makes the car around 4k cheaper, but of course it would....the battery is worth about that.

When renting the battery, you have to agree a max annual mileage. The higher the mileage chosen, the nore you pay per month. If you go over the mileage, you pay extra per mile at the end of the contract. If you go under....well, tough!

Also they won’t necessarily give you a new battery. The agreement is that if the the battery health falls below 70%, they will get it back up over that percentage. So they could give you a new battery, a refurbished battery, or just replace the worst of the cells to get you back up over 70%.

The real problem is when you try to sell the car. It is your responsibility to sell on the rental agreement to the new owner. And nobody will want to buy an old car with a high monthly rental on the battery. Most people can’t give those cars away, let alone sell them.

On the Zoe....it’s just too small.

from_atozinc

goz83 wrote: »

Battery Rental or “flex” as it’s known for the Leaf means you can buy the car, but not the battery. This makes the car around 4k cheaper, but of course it would....the battery is worth about that.

When renting the battery, you have to agree a max annual mileage. The higher the mileage chosen, the nore you pay per month. If you go over the mileage, you pay extra per mile at the end of the contract. If you go under....well, tough!

Also they won’t necessarily give you a new battery. The agreement is that if the the battery health falls below 70%, they will get it back up over that percentage. So they could give you a new battery, a refurbished battery, or just replace the worst of the cells to get you back up over 70%.

The real problem is when you try to sell the car. It is your responsibility to sell on the rental agreement to the new owner. And nobody will want to buy an old car with a high monthly rental on the battery. Most people can’t give those cars away, let alone sell them.

On the Zoe....it’s just too small.

Thanks, the whole battery rental thing seems a pain, I know it saves money, but just seems like hassle.

I had a look at some pics and video reviews there, the Zoe does indeed seem a bit small.

Shefwedfan

goz83 wrote: »

The real problem is when you try to sell the car. It is your responsibility to sell on the rental agreement to the new owner. And nobody will want to buy an old car with a high monthly rental on the battery. Most people can’t give those cars away, let alone sell them.

On the Zoe....it’s just too small.

They seem to be selling them in the North and I see some of the specialist companies here are selling them fairly easy.....

Bit over dramtic with the statement of can't giving them away....

I seen either here, or somwhere else the milage cost over your limit is not big and the rental doesn't actually work out that expensive....

You can buy the Zoe without rental anyway....

Shefwedfan

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks, the whole battery rental thing seems a pain, I know it saves money, but just seems like hassle.

I had a look at some pics and video reviews there, the Zoe does indeed seem a bit small.

Pic and video's are fairly useless when it comes to cars....

really you need to get out and start test driving a few cars, get an idea what you like....

When I was looking I took the Leaf out for weekend, took the Ioniq out for a quick spin but settled on eGolf after a 2 min drive

If Nissan garage close by why not ask if they have a Leaf Gen 1.5 for test drive over weekend, take it out for a spin...test it properly....you dont have to buy after the test drive

waynegalway

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Pic and video's are fairly useless when it comes to cars....

really you need to get out and start test driving a few cars, get an idea what you like....

When I was looking I took the Leaf out for weekend, took the Ioniq out for a quick spin but settled on eGolf after a 2 min drive

If Nissan garage close by why not ask if they have a Leaf Gen 1.5 for test drive over weekend, take it out for a spin...test it properly....you dont have to buy after the test drive

Great advice. It’s definitely worth just getting a spin in each model that’s within your budget. The longer the spin, the better.

goz83

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They seem to be selling them in the North and I see some of the specialist companies here are selling them fairly easy.....

Bit over dramtic with the statement of can't giving them away....

I seen either here, or somwhere else the milage cost over your limit is not big and the rental doesn't actually work out that expensive....

You can buy the Zoe without rental anyway....

I don't know how well they are selling elsewhere, but I have seen exactly 1 Zoe on the road. So, as uncommon as EV's are in general, the Zoe doesn't put a dent on the Leaf over here.

The vast, vast majority of people buying used cars will not touch a battery rental agreement. It's fine for short term PCP deals where you are giving it back to the dealer, but not to buy. I admit my statement of not being able to give them away was a bit dramatic.....it was supposed to be. Of course people can sell them on...it just makes it harder and you take a big hit on the sales price too. Would you consider a battery rental car of 3 years? What about 5?

Getting an EV is supposed to cut your monthly car costs. Battery rental is a great way to circumvent that.

Here's a interesting piece on the battery rental.

And another where they talk about buying out the lease

unkel

I wouldn't buy a Zoe with battery lease. You will not be able to sell it on and you will actually have to pay Renault when the car is scrapped at the end of its life. The

The whole point of an EV is to save a hundred quid or so per month on fuel, not to replace the fuel bill with a battery lease bill

from_atozinc

Thoughts on this one: https://www.donedeal.ie/view/18730428

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thoughts on this one: https://www.donedeal.ie/view/18730428

Seems okay, but given the age I’d want to know more about it. For example, does it definitely have the rapid charging port? What is the battery condition, as per most recent service report? How many of the 12 battery bars does it still have? Did anything have to be done to enable it to pass the NCT? Is it battery-owned?

goz83

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thoughts on this one: https://www.donedeal.ie/view/18730428

That guy has been “leaving the country soon” for more than a year. I seen it on adverts a few months ago and there was about a years worth of comments on the ad with him still responding. I remember it because I though it was funny that he was still “leaving soon”.

waynegalway

goz83 wrote: »

That guy has been “leaving the country soon” for more than a year. I seen it on adverts a few months ago and there was about a years worth of comments on the ad with him still responding. I remember it because I though it was funny that he was still “leaving soon”.

Interesting. You’d have to wonder why it has taken over a year to sell.

from_atozinc

goz83 wrote: »

That guy has been “leaving the country soon” for more than a year. I seen it on adverts a few months ago and there was about a years worth of comments on the ad with him still responding. I remember it because I though it was funny that he was still “leaving soon”.

Thanks. Nothing ever straight forward !

from_atozinc

waynegalway wrote: »

Seems okay, but given the age I’d want to know more about it. For example, does it definitely have the rapid charging port? What is the battery condition, as per most recent service report? How many of the 12 battery bars does it still have? Did anything have to be done to enable it to pass the NCT? Is it battery-owned?

Regarding your last question: is the battery in the car fully owned or rented ?

Does this question apply to the leaf a lot ?
Other than asking the seller and trusting their answer, is there a way to check otherwise ? (Presume will involve main dealers etc)

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

Regarding your last question: is the battery in the car fully owned or rented ?

Does this question apply to the leaf a lot ?
Other than asking the seller and trusting their answer, is there a way to check otherwise ? (Presume will involve main dealers etc)

Yeah, I meant is the battery rented or is it owned by the current owner. This question is always worth applying when shopping for a Leaf, but the number of Leafs that include a rented battery would be a small minority, I’d say. I don’t have exact numbers, but I’d say the vast majority of Leafs bought in Ireland were not the battery-rented version.

To identify a Leaf with a rented battery, the log book would include the word “Flex” in the section for model name. That’s Nissan’s way of identifying battery rented versions. If you do a search using something like cartell and the reg number, you might find that out without physically seeing the log book. If you get as far as finding the VIN, then that would help with the investigation.

unkel

waynegalway wrote: »

Interesting. You’d have to wonder why it has taken over a year to sell.

He is asking for very strong money. I feel a newer generation battery 2014/2015 for about €10k is better value than his car (with a battery that has probably already lost 2 bars, and no warranty left on the battery)

waynegalway

unkel wrote: »

He is asking for very strong money. I feel a newer generation battery 2014/2015 for about €10k is better value than his car (with a battery that has probably already lost 2 bars, and no warranty left on the battery)

I totally agree. A 14/15 version would be better in many ways, although a bit pricier. Would you get a 14 for €10k? It would be a better proposition for sure, especially as it probably would still have some battery and motor warranty left (depending on mileage).

The OP has said the aim is to get into an EV for as little money as possible, but we still don’t have an actual budget. So the one linked above might be the only option.

from_atozinc

waynegalway wrote: »

I totally agree. A 14/15 version would be better in many ways, although a bit pricier. Would you get a 14 for €10k? It would be a better proposition for sure, especially as it probably would still have some battery and motor warranty left (depending on mileage).

The OP has said the aim is to get into an EV for as little money as possible, but we still don’t have an actual budget. So the one linked above might be the only option.

Hi. Would like to keep my budget at max 8k

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

Hi. Would like to keep my budget at max 8k

Ok, sound. We know where we’re at now! That firmly puts you in Gen 1 territory for now. Perhaps a Gen 1.5 might be available for that money down the line.

I’d say your best bet is to get onto one of the specialist importers, tell them your budget, and let them find and import a car that suits your needs and budget.

Another option might be to save up for a Gen 1.5, but that could take more time than its worth. For example, if you can manage to put away €200 a month, but you’re still pumping petrol/diesel into your current car, you’re probably losing money overall.

I’d say just for a Gen 1 at your current budget, start saving on fuel costs, put that money aside and in a couple of years trade up if you want to.

ELM327

This is the cheapest Gen 1.5 leaf I can see on DoneDeal
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-e-acenta/18716917

At €11k it's 3k over budget.
It's an inherently better car than a gen 1 but the budget is the defining factor,

waynegalway

ELM327 wrote: »

This is the cheapest Gen 1.5 leaf I can see on DoneDeal
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-e-acenta/18716917

At €11k it's 3k over budget.
It's an inherently better car than a gen 1 but the budget is the defining factor,

Seller says it’s a Nismo version. Correct me if I’m wrong, but is that just a badge, or is there anything extra special about it? I thought the “real” Nismo Leaf wasn’t out yet.

ELM327

waynegalway wrote: »

Seller says it’s a Nismo version. Correct me if I’m wrong, but is that just a badge, or is there anything extra special about it? I thought the “real” Nismo Leaf wasn’t out yet.

Seller hasn't a clue, in that case :pac:

from_atozinc

ELM327 wrote: »

Seller hasn't a clue, in that case :pac:

Sound like a lot of sellers - both dealers and private haven't got a breeze
and then the pricing

a 2011 priced at 6750 with 37000 miles
a 2011 priced at 9250 with 50000 miles
a 2012 priced at 7500 with 50000 miles
a 2013 priced at 8600 with 34000 miles

now I know you have different car specs etc, but the prices are all over the shop
I think I will use the last one from electric autos as my guide.

ELM327

But the miles are not as important as battery health
the two 2011 ones have been up for a while as they are down battery bars. This doesnt really happen in the gen 1.5

EDIT:
Re electric autos - that's where I bought my first leaf a couple of years ago and I got a good deal then. This time round (I am awaiting collection of my Ioniq from another dealer) they were not competitive on price at all.

from_atozinc

ELM327 wrote: »

But the miles are not as important as battery health
the two 2011 ones have been up for a while as they are down battery bars. This doesnt really happen in the gen 1.5

thanks, I thought the miles would have a reflection on the battery health,the more miles done would bring down the battery health, but sounds like I am wrong.

What in reality brings down the battery health?

waynegalway

from_atozinc wrote: »

thanks, I thought the miles would have a reflection on the battery health,the more miles done would bring down the battery health, but sounds like I am wrong.

What in reality brings down the battery health?

Age. Simple as that.