Nissan Leaf

ewj1978

I must have been driving a different l30 than macnab cos that was barely possible in my 2016 leaf at 100km/hr when I sold mine. I had done 65k/km and its SOH was 89%.
My round trip to work was 147km. Mostly N roads with a 15km stretch of M.
After crawling home freezing @85km/hr, cos I had no heating on!!, on too many winter nights and arriving with --- range showing I had to sell her.
Summer I'd get 200km on the GOM.
Winter 160km.

Soarer

Here's one lads.

Was going for a spin yesterday, so decided to have a look at my range. I've attached pics.

Plugged the car in, and got notification of when the car was full.
Didn't leave for another 45 minutes after the notification, so when I got to the car, all blue lights were off. She should've been finished balancing and stuff at that stage.
Ran LeafSpy, and got the following...
SOH - 68.3% (expected).
SOC - 89.8% (not expected!).
How can a "fully charged" battery only be showing ~90%. Added to the 68% SOH, should have me way down on range compared to a "normal" L24.

Anyways, hit the road to Kinsale. Lovely sunny day, not much wind, no heading.
Did 100km/h on the dual carriageways, and stuck to other speed limits down and back.
Got home, and the total journey was 72.9km.
Ran LeafSpy again, and I had a SOC of 29.5!
So I did my 73km journey using 60% battery!
That doesn't seem too bad, does it?!

I'm interested in why it was only showing less than 90% for a full charge though.

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

Here's one lads.

Was going for a spin yesterday, so decided to have a look at my range. I've attached pics.

Plugged the car in, and got notification of when the car was full.
Didn't leave for another 45 minutes after the notification, so when I got to the car, all blue lights were off. She should've been finished balancing and stuff at that stage.
Ran LeafSpy, and got the following...
SOH - 68.3% (expected).
SOC - 89.8% (not expected!).
How can a "fully charged" battery only be showing ~90%. Added to the 68% SOH, should have me way down on range compared to a "normal" L24.

Anyways, hit the road to Kinsale. Lovely sunny day, not much wind, no heading.
Did 100km/h on the dual carriageways, and stuck to other speed limits down and back.
Got home, and the total journey was 72.9km.
Ran LeafSpy again, and I had a SOC of 29.5!
So I did my 73km journey using 60% battery!
That doesn't seem too bad, does it?!

I'm interested in why it was only showing less than 90% for a full charge though.

In a fully charged Leaf when its 100% on the dash it wont be 100% in LeafSpy in the SOC field. Usually around 95-97%... think of it as the buffer.

Some other variables also affect it, particularly temperature I believe. If you also start the charge session from an already high level it can stop earlier.

89% is low tbf, but its probably a combination of those things. Maybe run the battery down and do a full 0-100% charge and then see what you get in SOC.

Degradation is probably also playing a part here where the BMS is limiting the level it is charging each cell to to "save" it.


On the journey you did... You have about 15kWh usable based on the SOH. Depending on how slow you drive you could maybe get 100km on that but usually a Leaf will use more than 15kWh/100km. You did 73km on a slow road to Kinsale so that seems normal enough to me.

BoatMad

Currently we passed 133,000 km on our early 2016 leaf , still on full bars

Soarer

BoatMad wrote: »

Currently we passed 133,000 km on our early 2016 leaf , still on full bars

That's ferocious mileage! Fair play.

I recently passed 175k kms on my 2011.

Soarer

Morning all.

Car completely dead this morning.

Car wasn't charging, but I turned on the heating at 07:55, and it turned on fine.
By the time I got out to the car, the heating was off, and the i-key error was on the dash.
When I try turn her on, I get the initial bong chime thing. I had this turned off, so I know there's some sort of reset after happening.
When I plug her in to charge, I get the initital beep and a click from the relay(?), but nothing else. No lights, no charging.
I though it might be the 12V battery again, so whipped that out and brought it down to the motor factors. They checked my battery and said it's not quite perfect, but there's plenty in it to start a car. They gave me a new one to check anyway, but it's made no difference.

I was driving the car last night at 10pm, she was charging until about 1am (when I plugged her out), and she turned the heating on this morning. So I've no idea what's happened.

The main battery has hardly gone west has it?

KCross

Do you have LeafSpy?

Does CarWings communicate with the car?

Have you tried to put the key right up next to the start button to rule out the fob battery?

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Morning all.

Car completely dead this morning.

Car wasn't charging, but I turned on the heating at 07:55, and it turned on fine.
By the time I got out to the car, the heating was off, and the i-key error was on the dash.
When I try turn her on, I get the initial bong chime thing. I had this turned off, so I know there's some sort of reset after happening.
When I plug her in to charge, I get the initital beep and a click from the relay(?), but nothing else. No lights, no charging.
I though it might be the 12V battery again, so whipped that out and brought it down to the motor factors. They checked my battery and said it's not quite perfect, but there's plenty in it to start a car. They gave me a new one to check anyway, but it's made no difference.

I was driving the car last night at 10pm, she was charging until about 1am (when I plugged her out), and she turned the heating on this morning. So I've no idea what's happened.

The main battery has hardly gone west has it?

I had that on my L24 intermittently, it was usually accompanied by the yellow car with an exclamation mark warning light on the dash.


Cause was, for me anyway, a low 12v battery. If this is the second time it has happened to you I'd be looking to rule out a fault in the system that charges the 12v from the traction battery.

Soarer

Dropped the new battery back to the motor factors there, and got back my old one that they'd had on charge for the hour or so.
I reconnected that, and the ignition kicked into life!
That kinda points to the 12V acting up, but there was nothing happening with the new battery they gave me! Anyways...
The ignition is stuck on now...she won't allow me to turn off.
I've run LeafSpy and have attached screenshots of error, cells, etc.

KCross wrote: »

Do you have LeafSpy?

Does CarWings communicate with the car?

Have you tried to put the key right up next to the start button to rule out the fob battery?

Yeah, defo not the fob.

CarWings still communicates. Tis a weird one. LeafSpy is saying I have 70% SOC, which I'd believe as she was charging for a few hours last night. CarWings says I have 0/12 bars, and a range of -1km!

ELM327 wrote: »

I had that on my L24 intermittently, it was usually accompanied by the yellow car with an exclamation mark warning light on the dash.

Yup, got that.

ELM327 wrote: »

Cause was, for me anyway, a low 12v battery. If this is the second time it has happened to you I'd be looking to rule out a fault in the system that charges the 12v from the traction battery.

Yeah, tis strange. The new battery didn't turn on the ignition, but the charged old one did!

Update as I'm typing. Went out to run LeafSpy and take screenshots, and I can now turn off the ignition!
It still comes up with the error when I turn it on, shows -- as range left, no SOC bars showing, but capacity bars still there.

Soarer

Well fukk me!

Went out for another look there, turned on the ignition.
Battery, range etc. now all back on the dash again!
Decided to run LeafSpy, and the SOC was after dropping to 69.4%, so something was happening while I was indoors!
Read the DTCs, and cleared them one at a time.
Finally got down to 0 errors...from 29!

Last test, plugged her in, and she's charging away!

Mental! Probably just pissed off that City lost yesterday!

Thanks for the input lads. And if there's anyone questioning whether to purchase the full version of LeafSpy...JUST DO IT!!
It's after saving me hundreds, if not thousands, of Euro in the last few months!

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

Dropped the new battery back to the motor factors there, and got back my old one that they'd had on charge for the hour or so.
I reconnected that, and the ignition kicked into life!
That kinda points to the 12V acting up, but there was nothing happening with the new battery they gave me! Anyways...

They gave you a battery off the shelf which probably wasnt fully charged.
Your own on a charge for an hour was enough to bring it up to a voltage the car would accept.


Everything you've posted clearly points to your 12V being low.
You need to whip that battery out and stick it on a charger for 24-48hrs... the longer the better.

If it then happens to you again in a week or two it means your car isnt charging the 12V and "you" would need to check the DC-DC inverter. It might be acting up. Thats a main dealer job. Hopefully it isnt that, just a weak 12V that needs a decent charge.

Soarer wrote: »

Decided to run LeafSpy, and the SOC was after dropping to 69.4%, so something was happening while I was indoors!

Thats somewhat of a good sign in that it would point to the HV battery charging the 12V.

Soarer wrote: »

Read the DTCs, and cleared them one at a time.
Finally got down to 0 errors...from 29!

Its common when the 12V goes low that you get all sorts of spurious errors as the systems dont fully initialise.

Soarer wrote: »

Last test, plugged her in, and she's charging away!

On the charging front, you mentioned earlier that you plugged it out at 70%. Why? If this is something you regularly do I'd suggest you change that behavior. You should let the car charge fully to 100% and beyond at least once or twice a week (particularly for the winter months).

At the end of the charge session it will charge the 12V battery (3rd blue light flashing on its own). This is critical to keeping the 12V topped up otherwise the only topup its getting is while you are driving, which is probably not enough now that the weather is cold and you are drawing heat, wipers, lights etc.

KCross

Just saw your screenshots now.... the 12V is at 11.4V :D:D

Anything under 12.0V is basically dead!... not quite, but as far as the car is concerned it isnt enough to fire everything up. 12.7V is fully charged.

When the car is on and it senses a low 12V LeafSpy should be showing 13V+ which just indicates that it is charging it, not that it is actually at 13V+

You defo have to get that battery on an external charger for 24-48hrs or else you will be in the same boat tomorrow.

To alleviate the issue, dont use the remote heating until you get the battery fully charged. The heating will kill an already weak battery.

unkel

I successfully jump started my neighbours car yesterday with one of these that I got for about €25 delivered:

Linky


A handy thing to have and it's tiny, so fits in any glovebox, etc.

I would go and drive your Leaf for at least an hour or so, then measure the battery voltage again. Should be well over 12V otherwise you run the risk of it not starting the car again.

I would also go to a different motor factors next time

Water John

Looks like it would need to go to full charge twice a week, for balancing and charging the 12V. This seems it might be become more of an issue as bigger batteries come in. Learning all the time.

Soarer

KCross wrote: »

They gave you a battery off the shelf which probably wasnt fully charged.
Your own on a charge for an hour was enough to bring it up to a voltage the car would accept.

Make sense.

But why would yer man have told me that there was enough charge in the battery to "start a normal car"? Is the Leaf just overly sensitive to anything less than a near perfect battery?
They're a good bunch of lads and wouldn't just fob me off.

KCross wrote: »

Everything you've posted clearly points to your 12V being low.
You need to whip that battery out and stick it on a charger for 24-48hrs... the longer the better.

If it then happens to you again in a week or two it means your car isnt charging the 12V and "you" would need to check the DC-DC inverter. It might be acting up. Thats a main dealer job. Hopefully it isnt that, just a weak 12V that needs a decent charge.

What would you do if a fella doesn't have a battery charger? Would leaving the car plugged in overnight for a few nights solve it?

KCross wrote: »

On the charging front, you mentioned earlier that you plugged it out at 70%. Why? If this is something you regularly do I'd suggest you change that behavior. You should let the car charge fully to 100% and beyond at least once or twice a week (particularly for the winter months).

It's not something I normally do. It was more than enough to get me to work today, and she'd have been plugged in to 100% then. She's actually charged to 100% most days, so I don't know how the 12V battery could drop.

McGiver

KCross wrote: »

On the charging front, you mentioned earlier that you plugged it out at 70%. Why? If this is something you regularly do I'd suggest you change that behavior. You should let the car charge fully to 100% and beyond at least once or twice a week (particularly for the winter months).

At the end of the charge session it will charge the 12V battery (3rd blue light flashing on its own). This is critical to keeping the 12V topped up otherwise the only topup its getting is while you are driving, which is probably not enough now that the weather is cold and you are drawing heat, wipers, lights etc.

Jaysus, I didn't know this - I almost never charge to 100%. So the 12V battery charges only once the main battery charging (and balancing) are done? Other than that, is the charge 100% beneficial for anything else, let's say in the main battery?

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

Make sense.

But why would yer man have told me that there was enough charge in the battery to "start a normal car"? Is the Leaf just overly sensitive to anything less than a near perfect battery?
They're a good bunch of lads and wouldn't just fob me off.

I dont know, but clearly the battery they gave you wasnt up to snuff and your own is also clearly significantly down on charge.

Maybe his tester isnt working properly.

Soarer wrote: »

What would you do if a fella doesn't have a battery charger? Would leaving the car plugged in overnight for a few nights solve it?

I'd talk to a fella that has one!

PM me if you need a loan of one.

Soarer wrote: »

It's not something I normally do. It was more than enough to get me to work today, and she'd have been plugged in to 100% then. She's actually charged to 100% most days, so I don't know how the 12V battery could drop.

ok, if you do 100% charges most days it might be that the battery is just poor and should be replaced. You cutoff the charge last night which meant the 12V didnt get any topup and then turned on the remote heating which killed it.... thats my guess!

The 12V's dont last forever so it could be on the way out. How old is the battery?

Also, if the battery has been fully discharged it can damage it and there is also a thing called sulphation which only an external charger will be able to fix. The cars own charger wont fix that. Hence the recommendation to use an external charger for 24-48hrs.

If that doesnt fix it just get a new battery.

KCross

McGiver wrote: »

So the 12V battery charges only once the main battery charging (and balancing) are done?

Yes, at the end of the charge session.... when you see the 3rd light flashing on its own. Maybe the balancing and 12V charging happen together, not sure about that.... but it is at the end it is done.

McGiver wrote: »

Other than that, is the charge 100% beneficial for anything else, let's say in the main battery?

The 100% charge is required for the cell balancing of the HV battery.

McGiver

KCross wrote: »

Yes, at the end of the charge session.... when you see the 3rd light flashing on its own. Maybe the balancing and 12V charging happen together, not sure about that.... but it is at the end it is done.



The 100% charge is required for the cell balancing of the HV battery.

Cheers for that. And how often should it be done?

I mean I was conscious of always going only to 80% SOC to minimise battery degradation and I'd also turned on the setting in the car for that (Long Life mode or something like that).

KCross

McGiver wrote: »

Cheers for that. And how often should it be done?

I mean I was conscious of always going only to 80% SOC to minimise battery degradation and I'd also turned on the setting in the car for that (Long Life mode or something like that).

Hard to tell, not an exact science.
How often do you want to experience what Soarer has experienced this morning!


I think it would be a good idea for the 12V and the HV battery to do a 100% charge at least once a week but depending on how you are using the car (short trips using heaters etc) you might be better doing it more than once a week.


This very same discussion around the 12V going dead has occured on the Ioniq thread a week or so ago with multiple people having the issue within a few days. The cold weather is having an effect on the batteries plus the extra load of heaters, lights etc further taxing the 12V.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108392571&postcount=5655

Consider buying one of those 12V meters that I mention in that thread that go into the cig lighter. It will give you an indication that the battery is going low before it actually lets you down.

McGiver

KCross wrote: »

Hard to tell, not an exact science.
How often do you want to experience what Soarer has experienced this morning!


I think it would be a good idea for the 12V and the HV battery to do a 100% charge at least once a week but depending on how you are using the car (short trips using heaters etc) you might be better doing it more than once a week.


This very same discussion around the 12V going dead has occured on the Ioniq thread a week or so ago with multiple people having the issue within a few days. The cold weather is having an effect on the batteries plus the extra load of heaters, lights etc further taxing the 12V.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108392571&postcount=5655

Consider buying one of those 12V meters that I mention in that thread that go into the cig lighter. It will give you an indication that the battery is going low before it actually lets you down.

Super helpful, thanks! I'll get one for sure, if it's such an issue. Interesting Nissan don't say anything about the 100% SOC and 12V batteries (or maybe I don't read well ).

Soarer

So the heating runs off the 12V, and the 12V is topped up by the traction battery?
And does this happen "on the fly", or only after the main battery is charged to 100%?

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

So the heating runs off the 12V, and the 12V is topped up by the traction battery?
And does this happen "on the fly", or only after the main battery is charged to 100%?

Yes, off the 12V and topped up by the HV. iirc the a/c is directly off the HV.

I dont know the exact algorithm for when the HV tops up the 12V but when the car is plugged in it is supposed to keep the HV battery at the same SoC so that when you sit in to leave you havent lost any range.

The HV doesnt have to be at 100% to topup the 12V. e.g. it is supposed to float charge the 12V while driving as well. You should see that in real time in LeafSpy where you will see it showing 13V+. Thats the HV charging the 12V.

Normal external chargers will charge a 12V at 14.4V to give it a good boost. I dont think the Leaf takes it that far and maybe it should as alot of people have these 12V issues with the Leaf (and other EVs too).

Soarer

KCross wrote: »

Yes, off the 12V and topped up by the HV. iirc the a/c is directly off the HV.

I dont know the exact algorithm for when the HV tops up the 12V but when the car is plugged in it is supposed to keep the HV battery at the same SoC so that when you sit in to leave you havent lost any range.

The HV doesnt have to be at 100% to topup the 12V. e.g. it is supposed to float charge the 12V while driving as well. You should see that in real time in LeafSpy where you will see it showing 13V+. Thats the HV charging the 12V.

Normal external chargers will charge a 12V at 14.4V to give it a good boost. I dont think the Leaf takes it that far and maybe it should as alot of people have these 12V issues with the Leaf (and other EVs too).

Good man.

Ordered one of those battery monitor yokes from Amazon there. Might be too little too late, but shur we'll see.

creedp

I've had a problem charging my car using work charger Friday and today. For the first time on Friday I tried to activate charging remotely using Nissan app. However, the charging session stopped at 83% soc without warning. When I started the car I got that same charging warning sign. When turned the car off/on the warning disappeared. Over weekend the car charged fine on an FCP and homecharger. However plugged into work charger this am and charging session seemed to start normally. However this evening found the car hadn't charged at all with same warning. Again turned off/on and headed to on street scp and here waiting to get a top up before I head home.

Is there any reason why the car won't charge on work charger and fine on other chargers other than a faulty charger?

Would the use of remote activation have contributed in any way to this problem?

ELM327

12v battery

samih

At least some of the LEAFs bizarrely don't charge the 12V battery when plugged in which can result in flat 12 V battery if left plugged in for duration of holiday for example. Noticed that with my 152 L24 checking stuff on LeafSpy at the time. Never paid attention if that's still the case with L40.

Just replace the battery as it sound like it's no good in your car.

creedp

samih wrote: »

At least some of the LEAFs bizarrely don't charge the 12V battery when plugged in which can result in flat 12 V battery if left plugged in for duration of holiday for example. Noticed that with my 152 L24 checking stuff on LeafSpy at the time. Never paid attention if that's still the case with L40.

Just replace the battery as it sound like it's no good in your car.

Thanks for response (&ELM325). Currently charging on on street scp and leafspy showing 12v at 14+ volts. I charge to 100% every night and sometimes top up to 100% during the day. Until Friday no issue and whether by pure coincidence or otherwise the original problem coincided with remotely activating charge for the 1st time. Both times this happened the car started fine and charged normally when I plugged into an FCP, on street scp and home charger. Also both times the problem arose with the same work charger.

I'll check the 12v battery and also see can I get the work charger assessed.

Soarer

Lads, I've had the 12V on a trickle charge for the last while, and in that time, a fair bit of condensation has built up in the car.

What's the best way to keep that to a minimum? Read about kitty litter in tights, but I'd rather a "proper" solution.

NIMAN

Anyone's NISSAN EV app not working this morning?