Nissan Leaf

unkel

zilog_jones wrote: »

And you think a 150W device won't take a lot of power? The cigarette lighter socket is only rated for 120W IIRC.

Depends on the car. The 12V socket in Ioniq (which is separate from the cigarette lighter 12V socket) has 180W max written on it

samih wrote: »

How long does it draw that 4.5 kW when starting with a cold car without preheating? Would be interesting to see what the impact is.

Ioniq heatpump is an incredible >7kW. But even on the coldest day, that is only used for about 1 minute. That one minute costs you only 0.4% of your total range

(7kWh / 60) / 28kWh = 0.004

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Depends on the car. The 12V socket in Ioniq (which is separate from the cigarette lighter 12V socket) has 180W max written on it



Ioniq heatpump is an incredible >7kW. But even on the coldest day, that is only used for about 1 minute. That one minute costs you only 0.4% of your total range

(7kWh / 60) / 28kWh = 0.004

generally it hits 7kW as you say for about 1 minute then sits between 4 and 5 for a long time then gradually comes down (depending of course on the delta between outside temperature and the temperature requested)

zilog_jones

samih wrote: »

The 2011-131 uses a conventional coolant to heater matrix system. The 132-> version especially when equipped with heatpump is much more frugal on short trips but even the resistive heater is more energy efficient on them.

Is there actual coolant involved? My Googling returned a lot of false positives of diagrams for Leafs with heat pumps, or different EVs. Does that mean the early gen 1 Leafs have two coolant circuits? Because it makes no sense to maintain a temperature for the inverter like an ICE, and adding a heat source into that loop sounds wrong. PHEVs have the inverter on a separate cooling system for this reason - you want to keep that as cool as possible, whereas the ICE has a desired operating temperature (and excess heat from that can be diverted to the cabin if desired).

unkel wrote: »

Depends on the car. The 12V socket in Ioniq (which is separate from the cigarette lighter 12V socket) has 180W max written on it

I believe it's a 10A fuse for that circuit in the Gen 1 Leaf.

samih wrote: »

How long does it draw that 4.5 kW when starting with a cold car without preheating? Would be interesting to see what the impact is.

If I remember it right on the Gen 1.5 with heatpump the 3 kW+ phase normally lasts a couple of minutes on a cold morning before the heatpump kicks in and that only draws about 200-300 Watts and cycles on and off when the heating is set at 19 degrees. Hot air is felt within about 20-30 seconds.

I'd argue their setting to "max" is inefficient anyway - they'd probably get better results setting a reasonable temperature (19-21 degrees, to the lower end if there are heated seats), stick it on "Auto" so it'll adjust fan speeds and direction appropriately, and use front demist button to clear the windscreen properly when needed.

samih

zilog_jones wrote: »

Is there actual coolant involved? My Googling returned a lot of false positives of diagrams for Leafs with heat pumps, or different EVs. Does that mean the early gen 1 Leafs have two coolant circuits? Because it makes no sense to maintain a temperature for the inverter like an ICE, and adding a heat source into that loop sounds wrong. PHEVs have the inverter on a separate cooling system for this reason - you want to keep that as cool as possible, whereas the ICE has a desired operating temperature (and excess heat from that can be diverted to the cabin if desired).

I'd argue their setting to "max" is inefficient anyway - they'd probably get better results setting a reasonable temperature (19-21 degrees, to the lower end if there are heated seats), stick it on "Auto" so it'll adjust fan speeds and direction appropriately, and use front demist button to clear the windscreen properly when needed.

We discussed the heating system here on one of the threads.

Agreed, best to leave the heating to auto and let the car figure it out. The max or say 18 degrees doesn't make any difference at the start to the heating cycle on the original LEAF where the hot water heats up (slowly) before any heat is felt.

NIMAN

handofdog wrote: »

Hi


Has anyone any experience/recommendations regarding the use of portable (cigarette lighter charged) heaters/de-misters.


Something like https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tenlso-Defroster-Windshield-Cigarette-180-dgree/dp/B07XP65ZJW/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1KPEPOZ5P8SPD&keywords=portable%2Bcar%2Bheater%2Bdemister&qid=1571648012&sprefix=portable%2Bdemister%2Caps%2C123&sr=8-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzMENaVzNNM0szUks0JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODE4ODQ0MVFXOVZMVkVXWEszMSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDU3NzQzWDNTS0tWSDhSMzlRJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1


I have a gen 1 Leaf and in the morning I can pre-heat. However, for the trip home I can't pre-heat and the car takes a lot of time/power to heat up.



As such I was wondering if the portable heater option might work.


Any feedback would be welcomed. Thanks.

I have had a couple of those types of heaters over the years.

They are pretty weak and generally useless for heating the car cabin on a cold morning.

samih

unkel wrote:

Ioniq heatpump is an incredible >7kW. But even on the coldest day, that is only used for about 1 minute. That one minute costs you only 0.4% of your total range

(7kWh / 60) / 28kWh = 0.004

If you do long trips on a heat pump equipped car it doesn't matter a lot if you use heating or not but on short trips the heater usage can be a pain.

If the system is like 132-> LEAF the system blends both resistive and heatpump heating to get the car up to temperature as quickly as possible. The heatpump at full blast typically consumes a few hunded Watts maximum and generate up to 3 times this in heating. The resistive heating in LEAF is about 4..5 kW and heatpump at full chat seems to be another 300 W on top of that.

On early LEAFs the resistive heating appears to consume 4.5 kW whenever the heating element is switched on.

SteM

So we got a zappi installed a while back but have only just switched over to a night rate metre. We've scheduled the Leaf to charge between 00:30 and 08:00 but when we check it in the morning it's only ever at 90% charge. Anyone have anything similar happen?

samih

Is yours a L24 or L30? 3.3 or 6.6 kW onboard charger? If latter do you definitely have a 32A type2 to type1 cable?

When we used to have L24 with 16A charging point it was able to charge from VLB to full during the nightsaver hours. I would expect the L30 with 3.3 kW charging to struggle to fully charge in 7.5 hours 3.3 x 7.5 x 0.9 so approx 22 kWh net charged at the worst combination from above.

handofdog

samih wrote: »

We discussed the heating system here on one of the threads.

Agreed, best to leave the heating to auto and let the car figure it out. The max or say 18 degrees doesn't make any difference at the start to the heating cycle on the original LEAF where the hot water heats up (slowly) before any heat is felt.

Thanks.


I had done my very unscientific experiment before reading these latest posts.


Basically, I had

• Heat set to max
• Interior re-circulation turned off
• Air conditioning on
• Short journey home (8km) which took approx 13 minutes.

During the commute home the power usage stayed constant at approx 4.5. It took about 3 minutes or so before I could feel the heat kicking in.



A trip that usually used 1-1.2 kWh (no heat) used approx 2.4 kWh. i.e. an extra 1.2kWh which tallies with a quarter (13/60) or so of the approx 4.5 used for heating.


This is obviously worst case scenario. I need a "real world" scenario where I'm using the heat to clear the windscreen rather than using the heat to measure usage!


It's good to have an upper bound though.


Thanks for all the responses. Cheers.

SteM

samih wrote: »

Is yours a L24 or L30? 3.3 or 6.6 kW onboard charger? If latter do you definitely have a 32A type2 to type1 cable?

When we used to have L24 with 16A charging point it was able to charge from VLB to full during the nightsaver hours. I would expect the L30 with 3.3 kW charging to struggle to fully charge in 7.5 hours 3.3 x 7.5 x 0.9 so approx 22 kWh net charged at the worst combination from above.

It's an L24 with a 6.6kw charger. The cable is tethered to the zappi and will charge it to full without any issue when it's not a scheduled charge. Even if we charge from 75% full overnight it still only charges to 90%.

JPA

SteM wrote: »

It's an L24 with a 6.6kw charger. The cable is tethered to the zappi and will charge it to full without any issue when it's not a scheduled charge. Even if we charge from 75% full overnight it still only charges to 90%.

Are you setting climate control?

SteM

JPA wrote: »

Are you setting climate control?

No, climate control is off until we get into the car.

jasonb

I presume the Zappi is set to Fast Charge? Are you using the L24 Timer to start at 00:30 or to end at 8:00?

P.S. This thread here talks a bit about Zappi Chargers settings for the Leaf Timer...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108473255

SteM

jasonb wrote: »

I presume the Zappi is set to Fast Charge? Are you using the L24 Timer to start at 00:30 or to end at 8:00?

P.S. This thread here talks a bit about Zappi Chargers settings for the Leaf Timer...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108473255

Yeah, the zappi is set to fast charge. The timer on the Leaf has a Start Time and End Time. They're both set, is that wrong? Thanks for the link to the thread, the sequence recycling until the 00:10 was another thing that was bugging me.

jasonb

SteM wrote: »

Yeah, the zappi is set to fast charge. The timer on the Leaf has a Start Time and End Time. They're both set, is that wrong? Thanks for the link to the thread, the sequence recycling until the 00:10 was another thing that was bugging me.

On my L24 I only have the Start time set, I think! I'll check it later to see...

SteM

jasonb wrote: »

On my L24 I only have the Start time set, I think! I'll check it later to see...

Thanks, would be good is you can. I'll test it tonight myself.

zilog_jones

SteM wrote: »

The timer on the Leaf has a Start Time and End Time. They're both set, is that wrong?

If you want it ready every morning, wouldn't it make more sense to set only the end time and let it work out the start time itself?

Soarer

zilog_jones wrote: »

If you want it ready every morning, wouldn't it make more sense to set only the end time and let it work out the start time itself?

Probably.

But if you only want it to charge during "night rate", you'd probably have to set the start time.

SteM

zilog_jones wrote: »

If you want it ready every morning, wouldn't it make more sense to set only the end time and let it work out the start time itself?

I honestly didn't know you could only set one or the other as I'd never used the scheduler before.I assumed you'd have to set both.

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

Probably.

But if you only want it to charge during "night rate", you'd probably have to set the start time.

Not quite right. If you only set the end time it will work back from that time to decide when to start(based on SoC that day) which will still be during night rate hours.

The idea is that the car spends as little time as possible at 100%.

jasonb

Just checked, I only have a start time (00:10), no end time, and Charge is set to 100%

SteM

Thanks all, set the zappi up using the settings posted in the link and the Leaf timer to finish at 06:30 and came out to a fully charged car this morning.

jasonb

NIce one, glad it's sorted!

krissovo

I see the Leaf is now included in the scrappage program and being advertised on TV at up to €3500 so just over €26k again for the base model 40. I would make a educated guess that there will be other deals available from March to bring the top spec SVE into that price rage which would be much better value.

Soarer

Think the egolf can be had for around €29k with their diesel scrappage I think.

Would probably be a better bet?

krissovo

I guess it depends if you can make used of the Pro-Pilot, its such a good feature for anyone who does a regular commute in congested traffic and when compared to Tesla Autopilot it’s not far off parity so that drives the value for me if its can be got for around €26k.

NIMAN

What does the 'B' on the Leaf's dash display signify?

Gumbo

NIMAN wrote: »

What does the 'B' on the Leaf's dash display signify?

Brake Regeneration Mode
It’s basically a Stronger version that gives a more charger back to the battery.

NIMAN

Even when the gearing is in D?
And ECO switched off?

KCross

NIMAN wrote: »

What does the 'B' on the Leaf's dash display signify?

That’s the second trip meter. A and B

You flick between them with the 4 Button cluster to the right of the steering wheel.