Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015

Alex Meier

I think it was Karl Heinz Rummennigge who stated that when LvG was at Bayern there were often times when, after 30 minutes of passing the ball around in the Allianz Arena, everyone in the Allianz Arena was looking at each other wondering . . . "where's all this going?"

jayo26

Alex Meier wrote: »

I think it was Karl Heinz Rummennigge who stated that when LvG was at Bayern there were often times when, after 30 minutes of passing the ball around in the Allianz Arena, everyone in the Allianz Arena was looking at each other wondering . . . "where's all this going?"

It was going with a league win and a final of european cup. Bayern and lvg fell out obviously anything after that can be taken with a pinch of salt, bayern have never been shy about sour grapes.

Adamocovic

Alex Meier wrote: »

I love the plethora of excuses for the fact that it was a muck performance against Tottenham.

Most don't argue that it was a poor performance. Rather than complain it was bad and claim we have no hope of improving people are considering reasons that could explain or contribute to the poor performance. Most notable the beginning of the season and it's quite evident no team is firing at all cylinders.

Granted. . . It's early days.

Would that not fall into your view of people making "excuses"

We'll see if Van Gaal improves things as the season progresses.

My bet is that he won't . . . The players don't buy into his "philosophy" and neither do most of the fans of United who believe that entertaining football and winning matches are not mutually exclusive.

You're entitled to you opinion but is it not a bit early to say for definite if things will improve during the season or not, it's only 1 game out of 38 we've not even completed 3 percent of the season.

Fair enough people aren't happy with the performance but I would have thought the logical thing was to take everything into consideration before declaring hit or miss with the upcoming year. I don't see why doing so is being labeled as rolling out excuses.

This season could go worse, it could go better, no one knows and no one is going to be able to tell based on the first game of the year. Come back after 5 games or so when/if they have been poor and I'll listen.

Alex Meier

jayo26 wrote: »

It was going with a league win and a final of european cup. Bayern and lvg fell out obviously anything after that can be taken with a pinch of salt, bayern have never been shy about sour grapes.

Yea - Van Gaal was sacked because Bayern Munich were not in a CL spot with only weeks to the end of the Bundesliga season . . whilst out of the Cup and the CL.

DM_7

5 games in 16 days. Lots of people here will be unimpressed with the performances ahead as they will be safe and controlled.

The results are the most important thing right now.

Ed has work to do away from the pitch to bring in one or two players. Van Gaal needs the Young upgrade.

Maximus Alexander

Alex Meier wrote: »

I love the plethora of excuses for the fact that it was a muck performance against Tottenham.

What's the difference between an 'excuse' and a reason?

Alex Meier wrote: »

Granted. . . It's early days.

We'll see if Van Gaal improves things as the season progresses.

My bet is that he won't . . . The players don't buy into his "philosophy" and neither do most of the fans of United who believe that entertaining football and winning matches are not mutually exclusive.

Is this not an excuse? If not, why not?

pmasterson95

Alex Meier wrote: »

Yea - Van Gaal was sacked because Bayern Munich were not in a CL spot with only weeks to the end of the Bundesliga season . . whilst out of the Cup and the CL.

Yea he was an utter failure and ruined the club. League titles, CL final appearance, german cup wins. The mans an utter failure.


Its a disgrace a ****ing disgrace we kept a clean sheet and got 3 points while not playing pretty. Thats an absolute disaster. We should be aiming to play pretty and stylish. Like Arsenal go for beautiful style and no substance and go down 0 - 2 with honour and style points. Thats how we succeed.



Or getting away from hysteria.

Did we play well? No
Did we win? Yes


ideally both should be yes but once we at least get the win its job done.

Alex Meier

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Yea he was an utter failure and ruined the club. League titles, CL final appearance, german cup wins. The mans an utter failure.

He won a Bundesliga and the Cup . . . and then got sacked.

He failed to qualify for the 2002 WC with a squad with the likes of Van der Sar, Stam, Hofland, Zenden, Hasselbaink, Van Bommel, Cocu, Overmars, Van Bronckhorst, Kluivert & Van Nistelrooy in it.

He got the sack at Barcelona after he left them in the bottom half of La Liga and just three points off the relegation zone.

pmasterson95

Alex Meier wrote: »

He won a Bundesliga and the Cup . . . and then got sacked.

He failed to qualify for the 2002 WC with a squad with the likes of Van der Sar, Stam, Hofland, Zenden, Hasselbaink, Van Bommel, Cocu, Overmars, Van Bronckhorst, Kluivert & Van Nistelrooy in it.

He got the sack at Barcelona after he left them in the bottom half of La Liga and just three points off the relegation zone.

He won 2 league titles with Barcelona in his first spell. Disgraceful by him.

Alex Meier

pmasterson95 wrote: »

He won 2 league titles with Barcelona in his first spell. Disgraceful by him.

This is Barcelona we're talking about. . . Winning La Liga is the expectation.

You make it sound as if Van Gaal did a Brian Clough and took Barcelona from the third tier of Spanish football to turn them into a European footballing powerhouse.

Ditto for Bayern Munich.

Ed The Equalizer

This thread is completely hilarious. If the internet had existed in the late 80's Fergie probably would have been sacked due to 'fan' pressure and United never would have had the same success.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

It wasn't. United kept a clean sheet and beat the 5th best team in the league.

Results orientated thinking. It doesn't work.

Adamocovic wrote: »

You're entitled to you opinion but is it not a bit early to say for definite if things will improve during the season or not, it's only 1 game out of 38 we've not even completed 3 percent of the season.

I hope things do improve. But I would suggest it isn't just one game, its one game and the entirety of last season. Last season was crap, the weekends game was reportedly crap, you can understand how people might see a trend.

Maximus Alexander

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

This thread is completely hilarious. If the internet had existed in the late 80's Fergie probably would have been sacked due to 'fan' pressure and United never would have had the same success.

This post didn't meet my expectations. You're sacked!

pmasterson95

Alex Meier wrote: »

This is Barcelona we're talking about. . . Winning La Liga is the expectation.

You make it sound as if Van Gaal did a Brian Clough and took Barcelona from the third tier of Spanish football to turn them into a European footballing powerhouse.

Ditto for Bayern Munich.

And you are completely ignoring his results and achievements and are trying to make him sound like he is Joe Kinnear bringing imcompetency and ruin wherever he went.

Pro. F

Liam O wrote: »

It wasn't.

That is deluded.

Liam O wrote: »

United kept a clean sheet and beat the 5th best team in the league.

It's possible to get a good result even from a poor performance. This should not need to be pointed out.

Alex Meier

pmasterson95 wrote: »

And you are completely ignoring his results and achievements and are trying to make him sound like he is Joe Kinnear bringing imcompetency and ruin wherever he went.

Well he's not Kinnear as I strongly doubt that Kinnear would have as many long balls as Van Gaal given the players/financial resources at his disposal.

jayo26

Alex Meier wrote: »

Yea - Van Gaal was sacked because Bayern Munich were not in a CL spot with only weeks to the end of the Bundesliga season . . whilst out of the Cup and the CL.

Yup in a season that the bayern president went on radio just after the start of the season and accused lvg of been difficult to work with even tho he had given him a contract extension and also when the team are battling for a champs league spot he came out and said the manager would be sacked at end of season either way.

come on it works both ways im not saying lvg is a god i think he has a lot of work to do to vet united batteling for a championship but bringing up his history at bayern and not stating all the facts is weak.

Any top coach would find it hard to work under that president. But its widely accepted in germany that lvg lay the foundations of the current All conquering bayern side.

Alex Meier

jayo26 wrote: »

Yup in a season that the bayern president went on radio just after the start of the season and accused lvg of been difficult to work with even tho he had given him a contract extension and also when the team are battling for a champs league spot he came out and said the manager would be sacked at end of season either way.

I'm not aware of that. . . Have you a link?

come on it works both ways im not saying lvg is a god i think he has a lot of work to do to vet united batteling for a championship but bringing up his history at bayern and not stating all the facts is weak.

Any top coach would find it hard to work under that president. But its widely accepted in germany that lvg lay the foundations of the current All conquering bayern side.

You're making excuses for Van Gaal now.

Van Gaal played two midfielders in a holding defensive role at HOME to SPURS.

That's not the United way.

MythicalMadMan

Hey Alex tell us about his time at Ajax and AZ.

What do u think of Wayne Rooney?

Do you like Tugboats?

pmasterson95

Alex Meier wrote: »

Well he's not Kinnear as I strongly doubt that Kinnear would have as many long balls as Van Gaal given the players/financial resources at his disposal.

Oh wait so now you are attempting to claim that Kinnear is better than Van Gaal as you dont think he would have long balls utilised? Why hasnt Kinnear got any league titles compared to LVG?


Whats your opinion on Wenger? Is he better than LVG?

Kerrydude1981

See Roberto Martinez on MNF,be a good idea to have a different PL manager on for each MNF game

Having LVG on,now would be an interesting one to watch

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

I hope things do improve. But I would suggest it isn't just one game, its one game and the entirety of last season. Last season was crap, the weekends game was reportedly crap, you can understand how people might see a trend.

I understand the worry but I wouldn't compare the set up going into this season anywhere near last season. Yes attacking is worrying and needs to be addressed, but we have quite a different squad now with Memphis, Darmien, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Romero all brought in and most having time with the pre season tour. Youths like Lingard and Pereira looking to impress too. Less injuries than before, and not too mention surely they should have the tactics known by now.

Yes it was a poor performance, but what we are going into this season with is different to last season and I wouldn't just use one performance to indicate that nothing as changed and that we are doomed.

After 5/6 league games I would think it's time to access and compare. But then again in football I think sometimes the heart plays a lot on opinions and views, it's understandable that people see us playing poor first game and immediately compare it to last season, but as I said in my view it will take more than one game to get an idea on how we will perform this year.

Alex Meier

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Hey Alex tell us about his time at Ajax and AZ.

What do u think of Wayne Rooney?

Do you like Tugboats?

If you want to act in a juvenile manner then do so. . . Van Gaal's performance as a United manager is been called into question by a lot of fans and is currently discussed on other fora like RedCafe for instance.

pmasterson95

Alex Meier wrote: »

I'm not aware of that. . . Have you a link?



You're making excuses for Van Gaal now.

Van Gaal played two midfielders in a holding defensive role at HOME to SPURS.

That's not the United way.

Winning matches and getting clean sheets. We definitely dont want that carry on becoming the United way. HELL NO

jayo26

Alex Meier wrote: »

I'm not aware of that. . . Have you a link?



You're making excuses for Van Gaal now.

Van Gaal played two midfielders in a holding defensive role at HOME to SPURS.

That's not the United way.

Go search for it yourself its not hard to find a statement along the lines of lvgs will be leaving bayern at the end of this season......

I didnt make an excuse for him anywhere i stated plenty of times he needs to get his tactics working. Just because some people aren't in here panicking over the first game of the season dont mean that we have our heads burried in the sand it just means that we are prepared to let the season get underway first.

Alex Meier

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Winning matches and getting clean sheets. We definitely dont want that carry on becoming the United way. HELL NO

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-van-gaal-struggling-9822720

spiralism

Bit late but the good and bad from the weekend as i saw it:

Good:
-Smalling was dominant at CB. He's turning into a fine player
-Darmian was absolutely rock solid, well impressed with his debut.
-Memphis showed some great flashes and played Young in brilliantly, Young ****ed the chance up though. Also popped up all over the attack, seen him on both wings and through the middle. Should have taken that free though, he's arguably our best free taker just off his track record at PSV
-Schneiderlin was solid. Worked well and put himself about the midfield. however he gave the ball away a few too many times for it to be a class debut like some are making out.
-Blind at CB was nowhere near as bad as he's made out to be. He's slow yeah and could get outmuscled by physical players but did fine i thought.
-Apart from the last few minutes where Valencia coming in allowed us to get opened up a lot more, Spurs didn't ever really look like scoring.
-Schweinsteiger looked rusty and slightly unfit but it was clear after coming on that he contributed in another way, in that he provided leadership.


Bad:
-No Herrera until a sub appearance, please for the love of god can we not end up back where we were 7 months ago clamouring "Free Herrera" again. Hugely important player for us
-Mata's not effective forced out wide and everyone knows this. He's at his best centrally and with Herrera in the team as well.
-Valencia was an absolute liability when he came on and was responsible for nearly half a dozen promising openings for spurs. We better hope to christ Darmian stays fit and plays every game
-Created absolutely **** all and the game was a snoozefest
-Taking off Memphis was a mistake and he was clearly annoyed by it, lad had a goal or an assist in him by the looks. He was our main creative spark up to that point and after he was hooked we didn't threaten again.
-Romero didn't do anything really stupid but he's a clear step below De Gea, his distribution is a biq question mark for one.

Alex Meier

jayo26 wrote: »

Go search for it yourself its not hard to find a statement along the lines of lvgs will be leaving bayern at the end of this season......

You're making the claim . . . So you back it up.

I follow the Bundesliga very closely and never came across what you claimed.

MythicalMadMan

Alex Meier wrote: »

If you want to act in a juvenile manner then do so. . . Van Gaal's performance as a United manager is been called into question by a lot of fans and is currently discussed on other fora like RedCafe for instance.

Whats Juvenile they were genuine questions.
You brought some of his other clubs into it.
Just because something is being discussed doesnt give it merit.

How do you think we will get on with Rooney up top this season?

pmasterson95

Alex Meier wrote: »

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-van-gaal-struggling-9822720

I like the bit that said "Ferguson's last 3 title sides recorded numerous victories with what Jorge Valdano described as Sh*t on a stick football"


It really shows your point Alex. We should have rejected those titles and sacked Ferguson. We should NOT want or have to endure effectiveness and titles. We should just be Faaaabulous and to fu*k with results/titles.

adox

While I do think it's too early to dictate how the season will pan out, I don't think people are over reacting,criticising and showing concern about Saturday's performance.
Sure there were a few players making their debut, a keeper that probably didn't expect to play, a MF at CB(spare me) etc but it's hard to ignore the memories of the stagnant rigid football that was played most of last season and see it continuing into this one.

I was so disappointed to see Di Maria leave as, despite being poor for most of the season, he was one of the few players we had with real pace that could dribble and create out of nothing, something this team is crying out for. It's a building process with Van Gaal and after taking two steps forward with the signings, there's been at least two steps back with the departures, especially with a player like Di Maria. De Gea is going to be a huge loss too. A bigger loss than many on here seem to think.

Van Gaal is here for three seasons. This is his second. He's been given free reign on the squad to dispense with whoever he wants and backed financially to buy whoever he wants. There has been a dizzying amount of changes to the squad(Di Maria being signed for ridiculous money and leaving after only one season personifies this) and yet the squad is at least 3-4 players short with probably 3 of those needed for the starting 11.

He's been great entertainment as a manager and has done what Moyes couldn't do, stamped his authority on the team and the club and has everyone from top to bottom adhering to his philosophy. The question is, is it right for the club and will it be successful? His reputation tells us that there is a good chance of him getting it right and bringing success back to the club but the evedince seen by supporters first hand with his tenure so far surely entitles questions to be asked?

I was delighted when he was signed and was happy for him to be given free reign over the club. Just the sort of character the club needed when it went into free fall under Moyes. The players needed a boss again, as did the club. Someone with a clear vision. Doubts have entered my mind since though, with some of the players moved on, the amount of players moved on, some of his team selections and his style of play. I put a lot of that down to "needs must" last season, with injuries and the objective to get at least fourth, come hell or high water.

A new season starts, more players are probably moved on than signed. Di Maria gone, De Gea going, Van Persie gone. Blind playing at CB because he is left footed. The same football as last season. I am concerned about where the club are heading. I'm still with Van Gaal and I hope he gets it right but I am concerned and I have my doubts about him and his plan.

It's good and right to question things. It's too easy to say it's near jerk or doom and gloom. It's also impossible for some to ignore the issues that have arisen since he took charge and not say anything.

We are one game into the new season and I think the remainder of this window will be huge for Van Gaal. Whether the additions are made or not remains to be seen.

jayo26

Alex Meier wrote: »

You're making the claim . . . So you back it up.

I follow the Bundesliga very closely and never came across what you claimed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/news/8441116/Bayern-Munich-coach-Louis-van-Gaal-sacked-as-Bundesliga-giants-fight-for-Champions-League-place.html

10 second search throws that up. Read down threw it backs up everything in one article.

I follow bundesleague too and i clearly remember that season and i dont state something random off the top of my head.

jayo26

United v leicester u21s is 1_1 at half time an own goal from fletcher and varella scored a nice goal to equalise for united.

Liam O

Was there this much of a meltdown in here after the opening day defeat last season? I wasn't happy back then but don't remember nearly as much general complaints. Do people really think Spurs are bad enough that United should have won 3 or 4 nil after most players have had about 180 minutes or less in the last 3 odd months?

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

Was there this much of a meltdown in here after the opening day defeat last season?

This ****ing thread in a nutshell. Dare question a poor performance and out come the "meltdown" labels. :rolleyes:

Winston Payne

We're obligated to be positive according to some.

spiralism

Liam O wrote: »

Was there this much of a meltdown in here after the opening day defeat last season? I wasn't happy back then but don't remember nearly as much general complaints. Do people really think Spurs are bad enough that United should have won 3 or 4 nil after most players have had about 180 minutes or less in the last 3 odd months?

No but to be fair last year it was his first league game and he was clearing up an absolutely huge mess from the season before. People by and large knew Rome wasn't going to be built in a day.

Think people are worried that there's trends from last season that are continuing in Van Gaals stubbornness (De Gea not playing, Blind at CB (not so much one i have a problem with tbf), Valencia coming on at RB, Mata out wide) and our inability to create many chances.

adox

Liam O wrote: »

Was there this much of a meltdown in here after the opening day defeat last season? I wasn't happy back then but don't remember nearly as much general complaints. Do people really think Spurs are bad enough that United should have won 3 or 4 nil after most players have had about 180 minutes or less in the last 3 odd months?

Are you even reading the posts where concerns are raised? It's like all you are taking from them is that people are complaining and then making up your own narrative. It's quite bizarre.

Liam O

adox wrote: »

Are you even reading the posts where concerns are raised? It's like all you are taking from them is that people are complaining and then making up your own narrative. It's quite bizarre.

There are some reasoned posts but most of it is OTT rubbish tbh.

Pro. F

Liam O wrote: »

Was there this much of a meltdown in here after the opening day defeat last season? I wasn't happy back then but don't remember nearly as much general complaints. Do people really think Spurs are bad enough that United should have won 3 or 4 nil after most players have had about 180 minutes or less in the last 3 odd months?

People think United should be playing better.

Liam O

Pro. F wrote: »

People think United should be playing better.

That result exceeded my expectations for the match. What were people expecting from the game? I think it's a case of people having expectations beyond what the team were going to be capable of in the game.

jayo26

Liam O wrote: »

Was there this much of a meltdown in here after the opening day defeat last season? I wasn't happy back then but don't remember nearly as much general complaints. Do people really think Spurs are bad enough that United should have won 3 or 4 nil after most players have had about 180 minutes or less in the last 3 odd months?

To be fair ive only seen one person state lvg is wrong man for the job and that results wont improve most other stuff is just saying how crap a performance it was and that it has carried on from last year which to be fair is the truth but it should get better as the team gels we have 5 games in next few weeks id not be worried until ive seen how we preform over them games then is a fair time to judge the situation.

J. Marston

Wish Yaya Toure would go away.

Vic Vinegar

J. Marston wrote: »

Wish Yaya Toure would go away.

Racist.

DM_7

Sorry adox but Blind at centre-back back is happening for more reasons than his left boot, its one of the factors that have him playing there but he also reads the game well, is a good defender all round and good in possession.

Its a good example of the type of thing van Gaal will try, many people will say he is shoehorned into his unnatural position, yet if he was a little taller it would probably be the obvious position for him. When possession is important he is a player who can help with that and overall his attributes fit what van Gaal needs for a few games to start with.

Overall under Van Gaal he has had to bring a lot of new players in and let a lot of players go. That was needed after Moyes. The permanent signings have all improved upon what United had. He has also created opportunities for young players already at the club to improve and fulfill their potential. With the numbers involved its not a big surprise a couple didn't pay off.

He has picked and put faith in some existing players like Smalling, Jones, Carrick, Young, Rooney, Mata. Yes lots of people have left but they were not the required quality. Guys like Nani, Kagawa or Rafael were struggling to perform before he arrived. Its hard to argue with him moving on Anderson, Fletcher, Welbeck, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Cleverley considering they were long past their best or had not fulfilled potential.

To date I think he has done a good job and but United firmly back on track in 14 months. Lots of work to be done over next few months with the players day in day out while also manage results. He is the type of manager capable of that.

A lot of the genuine criticism and worries about how effective the play will be are lost amongst the excite me, buy fast players, van Gaal is wrong posts that have appeared in the last few days. The question of how good he can get the side performing still needs to be answered and such questions should be asked when performances are disappointing.

It might not get there. By his own words he isn't happy with the performances, he wants better, he wants a di Maria replacement, he wants more players if he can get ones that are better than what he has. So he appears to acknowledge a lot of the concerns people have and wants it to improve.

Coat22

Lets seperate the result from the performance.

We won 1-0 in the opening game of the season against a decent Spurs team. Good result.

We played pretty awful. Spurs had more chances, United had one and never really looked like scoring a second.

The entertainment value is close to zero. I know that's what we took on with VG but given the players at his disposal we should be capable of playing attacking attractive football.

Rooney, for all his blind faithful on here and elsewhere is plainly not the answer and IMO is starting to look like the weak link in the team. Sure the way we play doesn't help him but as someone else said, if that was Kane up front for us we'd have run away with it.

We still need another CB. Jones injury was a blessing. Smalling, for all the slagging I've given him in the past has moved a mile beyond Jones but looks like Jones would have started if he was fit. Can't fathom why.

bucketybuck

Coat22 wrote: »

We still need another CB. Jones injury was a blessing. Smalling, for all the slagging I've given him in the past has moved a mile beyond Jones but looks like Jones would have started if he was fit. Can't fathom why.

Haha are you kidding me? Like I said, I was out of contact all weekend and missed the game, so I didn't know Jones was injured!

Said it a few times during the summer that all the potential in the world is useless if we can't rely on him to be available when needed, but even I didn't think he would prove my point so quickly. Injured yet again, before the first game? Forget about it.

Adamocovic

Coat22 wrote: »

We still need another CB. Jones injury was a blessing. Smalling, for all the slagging I've given him in the past has moved a mile beyond Jones but looks like Jones would have started if he was fit. Can't fathom why.

Now I'll admit maybe I am biased as I like him but I wouldn't have classified Smalling as "miles ahead" of Jones. He did brilliantly last game but I felt him and Jones were both at more or less the same level last year.

I hope Smalling continues that form but don't forget last season Jones had an absolute belter of a start for us before his injury and was one of the few decent players in our squad. I'd classify Jones injury as upsetting and unlucky. Hope he bounces back well this season. I like both Smalling and Jones though and would see CB as less needed than an attacking winger/midfield to replace Di Maria or a Striker to add some goal threat.

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

Haha are you kidding me? Like I said, I was out of contact all weekend and missed the game, so I didn't know Jones was injured!

Said it a few times during the summer that all the potential in the world is useless if we can't rely on him to be available when needed, but even I didn't think he would prove my point so quickly. Injured yet again, before the first game? Forget about it.

Well actually Jones had been training fine and only complained about a bit of tightness in his calf. The medical staff decided to check him out rather than seeing how he would get on and discovered it was minor thrombosis.

VG has praised them for this because if they hadn't of realised now it could have meant a long layoff. He's due back in around 16-21 days. So I think it's a bit harsh to completely right him off because of it.

TheDoc

I don't think calling or labelling Saturdays performance as poor or concerning is OTT. I'd echo I felt Saturday whilst a good result, was a poor performance that I'm putting down to open day sluggishness, but would want to see improvement for sure on Friday, and then proper sharpness in the weeks ahead.

There was some genuinely outrageous critique and comments made after that result, from guys who tend to get a bit too in the moment during matches with making sweeping predictions.

But as with this thread most of the time, its all in extremes.

There was some nonsense comments made on Saturday itself, but as with everything, as the days have gone on, there has been measured and balanced critique imo.