Leaked IAAf report on doping

menoscemo

Great article from Steve Magness. He also seems to think that Lord Coe has a lot of grovelling to do...

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2015/11/7-quick-thoughts-on-iaaf-corruption-and.html?m=1

The Rape of Lucretia

Itziger wrote: »

My estimate on the suspicion percentage of top athletes goes up by the week. In fact it's beginning to sound like the clean competitors would be a small minority.

My estimate hasnt really changed. Its more like watching a movie plot where you already know the ending, but its still entertaining to watch it play out.

There are no clean competitors !

shels4ever

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

You left that 'Jamaica' just hanging there.

I had a go at them in another post once was enough 😄

KielyUnusual

Coe not being let off lightly by Jon Snow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBg6-_wrsOQ

pconn062

menoscemo wrote: »

Great article from Steve Magness. He also seems to think that Lord Coe has a lot of grovelling to do...

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2015/11/7-quick-thoughts-on-iaaf-corruption-and.html?m=1

One of the few good guys.

wrstan

menoscemo wrote: »

Great article from Steve Magness. He also seems to think that Lord Coe has a lot of grovelling to do...

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2015/11/7-quick-thoughts-on-iaaf-corruption-and.html?m=1

That's an outstanding article, as always from Steve.

the problem with our sport is that the athletes who grew up doping or accepting doping in sport then went on to become the governing figures in sport. If we have those in charge who were okay with it during the hey days of the 70's and 80's what makes you think they are going to change it when they have power?

Ron Gomall

KielyUnusual wrote: »

Coe not being let off lightly by Jon Snow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBg6-_wrsOQ

Great interview, only issue is that Coe leaves after been hassled for less than 5 minutes not answering the question (he was incompetent, asleep at the wheel IMO) and leaves the studio to his 200k/year job plus fee income top up from NIKE... He cannot be considered independent , meanwhile Sky throws sugar at him & Paula ...

How many people will call for his head ? This happened on his watch & I believe he is lying when he said he didn't know it was going on, he had to know - must be a smoking gun somewhere that will show he knew and organisation swept it under the carpet

1eg0a3xv7b82of

as has been pointed out.
Russia are accused of team drug use at London Olympics, yet they finished 4th in the team table behind China, US and the UK.
The Olympics are redundant at this stage, you cant trust any athlete.

ThisRegard

Maybe Russia will fire their entire Olympic backroom team after all, only 4th in the table after all they did.

(Although I imagine non track and field events play a bigger part in the top 3s haul)

1eg0a3xv7b82of

ThisRegard wrote: »

Maybe Russia will fire their entire Olympic backroom team after all, only 4th in the table after all they did.

(Although I imagine non track and field events play a bigger part in the top 3s haul)

well they need a bigger science and medical research division.
When you think about it, our pharma sector is not being fully utilised.
Rio 2016, Gold for Ireland brought to you by Boston Scientific.

robinph

Trevor Quick Tennis wrote: »

as has been pointed out.
Russia are accused of team drug use at London Olympics, yet they finished 4th in the team table behind China, US and the UK.
The Olympics are redundant at this stage, you cant trust any athlete.

Russia were 2nd in the athletics medal table for 2012, one gold and lots of silver and bronze behind USA. Relatively big gap back to others then in the table.

Chivito550

The ironic thing about all of this is that in Beijing, Russia had their worst ever championships, winning just 3 medals, none of these coming in their traditional dirty events (walk, women's sprinting, women's distance running, throws). They won a gold in the men's sprint hurdles, and gold and bronze in women's high jump. Nothing anywhere else which is astonishing. It's probably fair to say that was their cleanest team in decades, given all the revalations that came out in the months before Beijing, but it's too little too late I guess.

You would feel for any clean Russian athlete who would miss out on Rio. In a country so high in population and so enormous in land mass, there's bound to be a few at least who are clean.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

robinph wrote: »

Russia were 2nd in the athletics medal table for 2012, one gold and lots of silver and bronze behind USA. Relatively big gap back to others then in the table.

drugs are in all sports, rugby, gaa, cycling, athletics, soccer, you name it, they all take it.
There are no clean athletes, just athletes who have and have not been caught.

average_runner

Trevor Quick Tennis wrote: »

drugs are in all sports, rugby, gaa, cycling, athletics, soccer, you name it, they all take it.
There are no clean athletes, just athletes who have and have not been caught.

And that makes everything ok?

youngrun

Chivito550 wrote: »

The ironic thing about all of this is that in Beijing, Russia had their worst ever championships, winning just 3 medals, none of these coming in their traditional dirty events (walk, women's sprinting, women's distance running, throws). They won a gold in the men's sprint hurdles, and gold and bronze in women's high jump. Nothing anywhere else which is astonishing. It's probably fair to say that was their cleanest team in decades, given all the revalations that came out in the months before Beijing, but it's too little too late I guess.

You would feel for any clean Russian athlete who would miss out on Rio. In a country so high in population and so enormous in land mass, there's bound to be a few at least who are clean.

Agree. IAAF and WADA testing should find out cheats. And if this report is coming out then WADA itself has Failed surely??
Have said it before this smacks of political opportunism only. Russia is the enemy on many fronts .
The only thing this report does is damage the sport and ruin it more. Good old Uncle Sam and friends , who only give out a couple of month bans to the track crews behind it all


Local radio station had this on yesterday on its sports . And the same station rarely air reports on local athletics I send to them.

That is a damn shame.

ThisRegard

It's hilarious that you're still harking back to the fact that the only reason behind this is is cold war politics. Educate yourself to the background of it, and what's coming down the road.

youngrun

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's hilarious that people are harking back to the fact that the only reason behind this is is cold war politics. Educate yourself to the background of it, and what's coming down the road.

Nothing hilarious about it. You should look at the bigger picture here.

Where are the reports on US doping and the calls to ban US from athletics? Gay Gatlin Rogers etc ? And we could go back to the 80s 90s and 00s for a very long list.

I await this report with interest.

ThisRegard

youngrun wrote: »

Nothing hilarious about it. You should look at the bigger picture here.

Where are the reports on US doping and the calls to ban US from athletics? Gay Gatlin Rogers etc ? And we could go back to the 80s 90s and 00s for a very long list.

I await this report with interest.

It was just the US that had doping programs going back that far? No European, eastern block or Soviet state sponsored programs?

What's your issue, you want all this ignored and the Russian whistle blowers involved sent to Siberia?

BoJack Horseman

youngrun wrote: »

Nothing hilarious about it. You should look at the bigger picture here.

Where are the reports on US doping and the calls to ban US from athletics? Gay Gatlin Rogers etc ? And we could go back to the 80s 90s and 00s for a very long list.

There is little equivalence with what Russia has been doing, on a government level.....state sponsored doping, for decades.

If the Whitehouse hadits finger prints over Justin Gatlins doping, you might have a point... But you don't.

Clearlier

NIMAN wrote: »

The 1St simple rule of doping should be:

If you test positive, you NEVER compete again. Never. No second chances, you're out, career over.

This letting guys back after failed tests and bans does nothing.

Intuitively I like that and there are undoubtedly cases where it would be appropriate. The thing is, there are some grey areas. The classic one is the Vicks inhaler which is fine in Ireland and the UK but has a different composition in the US including a banned stimulant and there are many others - can you take a banned substance if it's part of medical treatment? What about asthmatics - should we ban them from competing?

You also have the incentive to offer athletes to co-operate and help identify the sources of drugs if they can compete again. Shobukhova had her ban reduced by 7 months from 38 to 31 months in return for helping WADA with the investigation that they just reported on. I don't know exactly what she contributed but given that she was a key part of the German documentary and her ban was reduced it seems reasonable to suspect that she was quite helpful.

All that said testing positive is actually for the idiots. These days doping athletes are most commonly identified via the biological passport which while far from perfect is much better than simple dope tests and background investigations compiling evidence from multiple sources such as with Armstrong and this investigation.

youngrun

What have WADA being doing all along ? Why didnt they pick this up at 2012 if such a problem?

I would certainly not take this report lying down if I was Russia and would challenge any ban in court .

It is a totally politically driven report and it looks like most of the boardsies take the gospel of WADA and Pound as truth without looking at the media driven political context of it all. If the report is proven to be true in a court of law, which I very much doubt- they should be hauled up for dereliction of duty and total enforcement failure.

US seems to have organised group doping programs by track clubs rather than Apparent state doping. Balco? Whats the difference? State v Private enterprise? Outsourcing?

Any word on Operation puerto? Spanish organised doping?

Funny the Russians get the blame for everything when they decide to upset the US war machine in Syria and Ukraine isnt it?

And the great sport of Athletics is destroyed in peoples eyes as a result.

ThisRegard

youngrun wrote: »

What have WADA being doing all along ? Why didnt they pick this up at 2012 if such a problem?

I would certainly not take this report lying down if I was Russia and would challenge any ban in court .

It is a totally politically driven report and it looks like most of the boardsies take the gospel of WADA and Pound as truth without looking at the media driven political context of it all. If the report is proven to be true in a court of law, which I very much doubt- they should be hauled up for dereliction of duty and total enforcement failure.

US seems to have organised group doping programs by track clubs rather than Apparent state doping. Balco? Whats the difference? State v Private enterprise? Outsourcing?

Any word on Operation puerto? Spanish organised doping?

Funny the Russians get the blame for everything when they decide to upset the US war machine in Syria and Ukraine isnt it?

And the great sport of Athletics is destroyed in peoples eyes as a result.

You made the claim over and over with plenty of whataboutery thrown in for good measure. How about giving us evidence, or a theory at least, as to why the Russians involved lied to WADA (as you seem to infer) about the existence of their doping program which helped WADA come to some of their conclusions? Why do you think they did that ?

Funny the Russians get the blame for everything when they decide to upset the US war machine in Syria and Ukraine isnt it?

This is extremely funny, but not for the reasons you think.

Notwork Error

youngrun wrote: »

Agree. IAAF and WADA testing should find out cheats. And if this report is coming out then WADA itself has Failed surely??
Have said it before this smacks of political opportunism only. Russia is the enemy on many fronts .
The only thing this report does is damage the sport and ruin it more. Good old Uncle Sam and friends , who only give out a couple of month bans to the track crews behind it all


Local radio station had this on yesterday on its sports . And the same station rarely air reports on local athletics I send to them.

That is a damn shame.

It damages the sport but right now but what about the long-term. Here's a quick Summary of the full report from letsrun

At least three Olympic track gold medallists in 2012 – Turkey’s Asli Cakir Alptekin (w1500), Russia’s Mariya Savinova (w800) and Russia’s Sergey Kirdyapkin (m50k racewalk) – were dopers and two of them – Alptekin and Kirdyapkin – definitely shouldn’t have even been at the Games. Eight of the nine abnormal biological passport readings for Turkey’s Asli Cakir Alptekin were recorded before the Olympics but the IAAF didn’t act until after she won gold. In the case of Kirdyapkin, the IAAF told Russia his biological passport was positive in November of 2011 – yet the Russia did nothing until after the Games. 2:18 marathoner and two-time World Marathon Major champ Liliya Shobukhova also shouldn’t have competed at the Games due to her biological passport.

Corruption went high up in Russia – the Russian FSB (CIA) had people in the Moscow lab and Sochi Olympic lab.

The cover up in Russia has continued well into 2015. The head of the Russian lab admits to destroying 1,417 samples in December 2014 after WADA specifically told to preserve them for this investigation.

Athletes in Russia were still doping this spring and summer and thought they could get away with the old way of doing business.

The Moscow anti-doping lab covered doping positives in return for cash payments.

A second “shadow” lab in Moscow, paid for by the city, helped athletes not test positive.

Coaches in Russia actively doped athletes and then at the same time demanded payments so these athletes they were doping did not test positive.

Athletes were tipped off in advance about out-of-competition testing.

Just as we’ve all expected, athletes expected they could compete dirty at the Russian National Championships.
Details on how Olympic 800m champ Mariya Savinova and World Marathon champ Liliya Shobukhova doped.

Athletes jotting down the numbers on their anonymous drug samples, and then getting those numbers to the lab so they wouldn’t test positive. Subsequently if someone wanted to spike a sample we assume the observers could just note the numbers and send them to the lab.

A WADA lab in Switzerland even destroyed samples they were not supposed to, yet we are supposed to believe in WADA’s ability to lead this fight.

Two gold medallists in the racewalk, Valeriy Borchin and Sergey Kirdyapkin continued to compete when they should have been banned.

Olympic silver medallist in the discus (since stripped) Darya Pishchalnikova paid her 30,000-ruble ($464) bribe to not test positive, but did end up testing positive and was so pissed that she contacted WADA about the whole scheme in 2012. Sadly nothing came out of her whistleblowing as she eventually retracted the claim. Then ARD aired its documentary and WADA took it more seriously.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/11/its-worse-than-we-thought-lrc-reacts-to-wada-russian-doping-report/

This report is the way to protect athletes in the long-term. Russian athletes were forced to dope by coaches and the national federation and then extorted by the same people to cover up tests.

Athletes who should not have been allowed to compete in major championships because they had tested positive before were allowed to compete. Proven faked races took place to cover up the participation of athletes who were banned.

It was a full on state sponsored doping program and there is no doubt about it. WADA has it's issues but the Russians were exploiting the gaps. It's like saying it's the bank's fault that it got robbed because it left the safe open. If Russia didn't do any wrong, they wouldn't have to deal with this. The obvious truth is that the Russian federation, coaches and athletes were playing by their own rules and not of that in the interest of fairness in the sport. They have been doing much more damaging things to the sport than this scandal is. If they played by the rules in the first place, this whole episode would''ve never happened and pawning the blame on WADA is the easy option instead of facing up the problems the sport has. The UCI avoided when they had a chance after the festina affair and look what happened.


We can say this country or that country was at it too but the simple fact remains that the Russians have to be punished for their misdoings and some sort of marker has to be laid down that corruption and systematic doping will not be tolerated. The Russian anti-doping authority and the national federation have already let down clean Russian athletes by their actions and have done huge damage to the sport.

I feel sorry for any clean athletes who might miss out on the Olympics if they get banned but that's not WADA's fault, it was their own country that let them down and put them in that position and all the anger for that happening should be directed at no one but the Russian governing bodies and officials.

To say that Russia are the only ones who are knee deep in this is also untrue anyway, Isiah Kiplagat who is the head of athletics Kenya came out last week and said he thinks there is a good chance that Kenya will not be allowed in Rio.