Working on a new messaging app

The Corinthian

percy212 wrote: »

Best of luck. The Corinthian is always a downer on all ideas. There is always one. Ignore.

Not entirely sure where you got that from this thread; I asked one or two questions, but made no judgement or criticism and withdrew from this discussion a while back, TBH.

Then I realized, looking back on your posts, that you'd run into me before and clearly your nose is still out of joint for having had it pointed out to you that you don't have much of a clue.

Still, it's flattering that one of us remembered the other.

tricky D

percy212 wrote: »

Best of luck. The Corinthian is always a downer on all ideas. There is always one. Ignore.

Lol. TC has shed loads of skill and experience in this area. If I was looking at developing an app I'd be getting in touch with him and asking him to give the idea a damn good kicking: asking awkward and hard questions, pointing out flaws, strengths, weaknesses... That kind of feedback is gold dust at the early stage of a project. Nothing 'downer' about it, quite the opposite actually.

Fukuyama

There's a growing amount of young sole traders in Ireland in fields such as personal training, makeup/beauty, dog grooming, babysitting etc...

I reckon targeting these guys with an Irish-market orientated app (and maybe one for the UK too). I have very little development experience so I'm not sure what's possible but here's a few ideas:

• A feature in the user-side app that allows them to recommend providers to their friends. Like an "introduction" type of social sharing.
• Stripe Payment and PayPal payment at a minimum as well an option to select "Pay in Cash" so everyone knows who owes who what and how they'll be paying.
• Appointment reminder feature. So when an appointment is made the app will send out a reminder the night before and maybe give an option to change or cancel the booking.

I think that targeting larger businesses will be an uphill struggle. Most customers and suppliers have established relationships. And their communication dynamic can be quite odd. For example, a supplier might be communicating with the owner of a chain of stores but it's staff in a branch at the opposite end of the country that actually take delivery of stock etc... Too many relationship types to account for and you'd just be muddying the waters even further.

Sole providers are your main man here. You could give the app away for free and charge a small transaction fee. Or maybe a small monthly subscription fee after a trial period.

I've sent you a PM by the way.

Axwell

Hey Cianos,

So I guess just a few questions/thoughts being devils advocate more than anything. Interested in trying it out/testing it if you still need people too.

Just referring to points you made previously.

Cianos wrote: »

Rather, the service provider will invite them to use it because they recognise that it makes life easier for them and their clients, and it's how they get paid. If a personal trainer invites his new client to download CianosApp in order to provide his services, then the new client will probably download it - the personal trainer is endorsing the app and because the client trusts their personal trainer, they should trust the app and go to the effort of downloading it.

I would say a non techy user isnt going to download it just because their personal trainer endorses it. They need to see the benefits in it for them, I can see plenty for the service provider, not as many for the customer so I am just curious how you plan to push that side of it?

If I already have being paying my personal trainer for example by EFT or a cheque at the end of the week/month am I going to download an app to pay them when its all the one to me (for the trainer its obviously handier but why should/would I be concerned with that if what I already do suits me?). I am in the same line of work as you, so when I do some development and invoice a client for the work whats the benefit there for them in having the app? I have clients that prefer to pay by cheque still and want that paper trail - others are with the times and pay by EFT which is fine. Whats the incentive for them thought to pay me through the app instead. Have you considered some reward system/loyalty system so that theres a benefit to the consumer to pay through the app?

Another one that I am unsure of is will the app be of more use to service providers who arent as tech savvy and dont use email, slack, invoicing software, basecamp, online payments etc etc but text a lot and will feel more at home with this all in one app than trying to master a load of other software? Is thats the aim then wont the fact its mobile based restrict the content that can be created/sent - short and quick suits better. A web based platform would be more useful maybe when it comes to richer content - posting fitness videos, posting links to content. You mentioned the music teacher sending links/notes but is someone whos not very tech savvy going to be able to copy a set of links and put them in a note and send them to his students? On the other hand someone who is tech savvy probably already has a system in place for a lot of services the app would cover. So who is the ideal target for the app?

I can also see the service provider having to do some hand holding and showing clients how to use it initially and also how to use it based around the way the service provider is using it to deliver content, be that notes, workout plans etc as per one example or just payment requests etc.

As I said just throwing down some general thoughts and being devils advocate. Im sure you have the answers or have thought of most or all of these but some might get the brain ticking.

Best of luck with it.

Cianos

Fukuyama wrote: »

There's a growing amount of young sole traders in Ireland in fields such as personal training, makeup/beauty, dog grooming, babysitting etc...

I reckon targeting these guys with an Irish-market orientated app (and maybe one for the UK too). I have very little development experience so I'm not sure what's possible but here's a few ideas:

• A feature in the user-side app that allows them to recommend providers to their friends. Like an "introduction" type of social sharing.
• Stripe Payment and PayPal payment at a minimum as well an option to select "Pay in Cash" so everyone knows who owes who what and how they'll be paying.
• Appointment reminder feature. So when an appointment is made the app will send out a reminder the night before and maybe give an option to change or cancel the booking.

I think that targeting larger businesses will be an uphill struggle. Most customers and suppliers have established relationships. And their communication dynamic can be quite odd. For example, a supplier might be communicating with the owner of a chain of stores but it's staff in a branch at the opposite end of the country that actually take delivery of stock etc... Too many relationship types to account for and you'd just be muddying the waters even further.

Sole providers are your main man here. You could give the app away for free and charge a small transaction fee. Or maybe a small monthly subscription fee after a trial period.

I've sent you a PM by the way.

Thanks very much for the input. I agree that sole traders and small providers are the main target for this at least in the early stages. As you said in bigger organisations the methods of communication are more complex and specific. but this will be handy as a better form of messaging between small providers and their clients.

On the fees side, we're keeping it free for everyone. The only charges will be the normal Stripe payment processing charges if the provider wishes to take payment through the app. Version 1 won't have a calendar feature as everyone usually has their own solution for this which they're already quite dependent on, so it's big ask for them to move that over to a new app. I really like the idea of recommending a provider to others too!

Axwell wrote: »

I would say a non techy user isnt going to download it just because their personal trainer endorses it. They need to see the benefits in it for them, I can see plenty for the service provider, not as many for the customer so I am just curious how you plan to push that side of it?

If I already have being paying my personal trainer for example by EFT or a cheque at the end of the week/month am I going to download an app to pay them when its all the one to me (for the trainer its obviously handier but why should/would I be concerned with that if what I already do suits me?). I am in the same line of work as you, so when I do some development and invoice a client for the work whats the benefit there for them in having the app? I have clients that prefer to pay by cheque still and want that paper trail - others are with the times and pay by EFT which is fine. Whats the incentive for them thought to pay me through the app instead. Have you considered some reward system/loyalty system so that theres a benefit to the consumer to pay through the app?

Breaking existing habits is too difficult, we don't expect to replace everyones methods of how they do business. Some people will always prefer cheque, EFT, cash in hand or anything else.

What we have recognised is that many small providers really want a way to take online payments and this would typically mean having to integrate with their website, pay a developer to set it up, get a SSL cert if they want Stripe, etc.

If the app makes life a lot easier for these providers then they should continue to encourage at least some of their clients to do business through it. So rather than trying to encourage an old client who pays by cheque every month like clockwork, if they have a client they're chasing for payments all the time because they never have the right amount of cash on them, or a new client who is excited about starting training, they could suggest the app as their preferred method, and maybe phase out other methods over time.

There are plenty of payment solutions out there of course, but we're just approaching it in a slightly different way by positioning it as a payment & management app that 'feels' like a messaging app - leveraging on the fact that messaging is the communication method preferred by many nowadays.

Another one that I am unsure of is will the app be of more use to service providers who arent as tech savvy and dont use email, slack, invoicing software, basecamp, online payments etc etc but text a lot and will feel more at home with this all in one app than trying to master a load of other software? Is thats the aim then wont the fact its mobile based restrict the content that can be created/sent - short and quick suits better. A web based platform would be more useful maybe when it comes to richer content - posting fitness videos, posting links to content. You mentioned the music teacher sending links/notes but is someone whos not very tech savvy going to be able to copy a set of links and put them in a note and send them to his students? On the other hand someone who is tech savvy probably already has a system in place for a lot of services the app would cover. So who is the ideal target for the app?

I wouldn't say it's as polarised as that. On one extreme you have zero project management, and on the other you have complex solutions like Basecamp. Ours will slot in somewhere in the middle where there's a benefit to having a simple task/project tracking element. For example, a web designer probably wouldn't use it to send complex mockups for review through the app, but he might use it to keep a shared To Do list one of which might be "mail mockups for review", or "send domain login details" etc.

Another thing to keep in mind is that while I might be savvy enough to comfortably use Basecamp, I know that the majority of my clients wouldn't want to put in the effort to learn it and rightly so. So I don't want to do the hand-holding you mentioned for something complex, but something I know my client can pick up and use straight away would be fine.

I can also see the service provider having to do some hand holding and showing clients how to use it initially and also how to use it based around the way the service provider is using it to deliver content, be that notes, workout plans etc as per one example or just payment requests etc.

The UI really will be very simple. I hope that the content/tasks/notes etc that the provider inputs will make it self-guiding in how the customer should use it thereafter.

As I said just throwing down some general thoughts and being devils advocate. Im sure you have the answers or have thought of most or all of these but some might get the brain ticking.

Best of luck with it.

Seriously much appreciated. I just hope the above doesn't sound too far reaching!

Axwell

Cianos wrote: »

Seriously much appreciated. I just hope the above doesn't sound too far reaching!

Cheers for the replies. I think once it does the basics right and has a necessary amount of features without overkill at the start then it wont be too far reaching. There is always room to scale and add features down the line. When you have user feedback etc that will help shape the must haves..the desirable features etc can always come in v2 once its up and running. Again best of luck and keep me posted when you have a build for testing.

Cianos

Hi everyone, I thought I'd update the thread. Development has been delayed with the app as we've decided to integrate group chat for version 1, this meant having another look at the UI to make sure everything was kept consistent (ie between 1-1 interactions and 1-many interactions), as well as the extra complications to the build itself.

Things are well underway again now and we're hoping to release v1 in the next 5-6 weeks.

We have put together a basic landing page for the app where you can enter your number to receive an invite once we've released, the link if anyone is interested is www.joinworkapp.com!

Will hopefully have another update soon.

magic_murph

Happy to help out and give feedback.
I have 15+ years in the Software QA sector - for my sins.

phishcakes

I would also like to test this out

Cianos

magic_murph wrote: »

Happy to help out and give feedback.
I have 15+ years in the Software QA sector - for my sins.

phishcakes wrote: »

I would also like to test this out

Brilliant thanks, if you pop your number in via www.joinworkapp.com I'll send you an invite when it's ready

jimmii

Have put my number down happy to help out.

Atomico

Hi all,

Just to give everyone an update - thanks for all the initial interest.

We are now seeking a small investment in order to take the app to the next level. We have posted with more details in the business partner thread, but feel free to ask any questions in this thread, or via PM to either Cianos or myself.

Thanks

smash

Hey Atomico, are you going to show us the app? I'm interested to see what it does differently than other business/messaging apps.

ironclaw

smash wrote: »

Hey Atomico, are you going to show us the app? I'm interested to see what it does differently than other business/messaging apps.

I'm curious as well as to the USP against Slack for example?

Graham

Atomico wrote: »

feel free to ask any questions in this thread

Well as you offered

How far away are your from launching?
Any beta customers on board testing what you already have?
What's it written in?
What are the currently supported platforms?
You mention moving from Parse, are you moving to the new self-hosted Parse product or are you planning a complete back-end rewrite?
What's the monetisation strategy?
What does the pre-launch marketing looking like? Has it started?
Who wrote the current product? Will the same person be writing the next version?
Any plans to open the product to 3rd party developers?
What are you offering in return for the investment?

smash

This might be of interest to you guys http://www.meetup.com/startabusiness-findcofounders/events/230255770/

The required 25K - I assume a couple of grand is to move to Amazon servers. Is the rest of it just for salaries for the 3 partners?

Cianos

Hi everyone thanks for your interest in this. Atomico is at a wedding so I'm going to jump in and answer these.

smash wrote: »

Hey Atomico, are you going to show us the app? I'm interested to see what it does differently than other business/messaging apps.

The app isn't on the app stores at the moment and we don't want to put it out publicly just yet (main reason being the server issues) but we'd be excited to demonstrate the app to any potential investors.

ironclaw wrote: »

I'm curious as well as to the USP against Slack for example?

We love Slack but it's definitely for the more techy user. Our app would be a lot more simple and accessible so we would see them as two different markets.

Graham wrote: »

Well as you offered

How far away are your from launching?

Besides the server issues version 1 is as good as ready to go.

Any beta customers on board testing what you already have?

We've only sent it to family and friends so far. We've gathered around 100 names/numbers overall to send it to for a quick beta response.

What's it written in?

Swift & Java (Android SDK)

What are the currently supported platforms?

Android and iOS and aiming to have a browser version done soon.

You mention moving from Parse, are you moving to the new self-hosted Parse product or are you planning a complete back-end rewrite?

We're planning on rewriting the back-end and any Parse dependent functions. We believe it's better to move away from Parse if moving away at all as it won't be supported long term.

What's the monetisation strategy?

There are a number of potential monetisation channels that will have to be gauged. Happy to discuss this further via PM.

What does the pre-launch marketing looking like? Has it started?

At present we have a list of people who are on our app beta list. We will be closely engaging with each one once we have launched to gather feedback and to gauge how they are interacting with the app and what the level of engagement and retention is.

In addition, we have a list of target sites where we will be marketing the app - these include the startup sections of high traffic sites, as well as start-up specific properties.

We will also be directly contacting a variety of groups across various sectors as part of the recruitment drive - those who are most likely to gain benefit from the product. We will also be contacting ‘influential’ people within each of these categories, encouraging them to advocate for the product after having a positive experience with the app.

We wish to use a portion of the funding for marketing, to possibly include online advertising targeting the most responsive niches determined from our initial launch.

Who wrote the current product? Will the same person be writing the next version?

Mark (who is 1/3 of our team and a stakeholder) built it, with some assistance on the Android build from his subcontractor. The next version will be built by them indeed.

Any plans to open the product to 3rd party developers?

Nothing yet but potentially yes!

What are you offering in return for the investment?

We're offering 15% equity

Deleted User wrote: »

The required 25K - I assume a couple of grand is to move to Amazon servers. Is the rest of it just for salaries for the 3 partners?

We're not taking any salary, the investment would be to fund the move to Amazon, build the browser version of the app, have resources available for implementation of some phase 2 features in order to action them quickly post-launch, and some resources to go towards marketing.

smash

Hi Cianos, can you perhaps explain what the app actually does? In comparison to say Slack or Basecamp...

Cianos

smash wrote: »

Hi Cianos, can you perhaps explain what the app actually does? In comparison to say Slack or Basecamp...

Sure - the app gives users a mini collaboration suite within a messaging app.

So imagine you and I were messaging about a project or a job we were working on together. Within the app we can assign each other tasks and keep shared or private notes. We can also send each other payments.

This also works for a group context. So within a group (we call it a workroom) individuals can assign each other tasks, keep public and private notes and so on.

The mockup below gives an idea of the layout & functionality;



In terms of feature set it doesn't compare to Basecamp or Slack but that's the point - this is something anyone can pick up and use. There's no learning curve or training required. It's all focused around messaging, and these features are there to be used if/when required.

Atomico

Cianos has covered everything really well there, which is possibly why there have been no follow-up replies!

One thing I would add is that we are all 100% committed to this project, and any funding we receive from this first round will go towards the development, launch and marketing of the app.

This is funding to get us market-ready, and we welcome any expressions of interest in terms of partial investments - maybe you can't invest 25k, but you may be interested in getting in on the ground floor with a partial investment (e.g. 5k).

Thanks

Bluefoam

I just came across your thread while searching for Slack. I am interested in the product... Seems to be very useful for small businesses, and I particularly see the benefit of allowing payments... I also suggest a shared calendar/events/appointments list that can integrate with your Google Calendar...

How do you intend to monetise the app? Will it be subscription driven; ad driven etc...?

Speedwell

We use Slack in the IT company I work for. The only drawback is that we can't share screens or add voice chat for groups. We wouldn't be interested in switching unless we had those two critical things. We are, in fact, on the lookout for an app that is basically like Slack but 1) allows portability from desktop to mobile device 2) includes support for group voice calls 3) offers screen sharing, including the ability to perform remote assist, 4) is reliable and stable, and 5) is priced attractively. We are currently working on a project that involves partnering with two industry-leader corporations in the field of CRM and IT. I can't say too much about it due to confidentiality, but I would want to bring an app like that to the attention of my boss (the CEO) and the other partners in the context of our project.

smash

Speedwell wrote: »

We use Slack in the IT company I work for. The only drawback is that we can't share screens or add voice chat for groups. We wouldn't be interested in switching unless we had those two critical things. We are, in fact, on the lookout for an app that is basically like Slack but 1) allows portability from desktop to mobile device 2) includes support for group voice calls 3) offers screen sharing, including the ability to perform remote assist, 4) is reliable and stable, and 5) is priced attractively. We are currently working on a project that involves partnering with two industry-leader corporations in the field of CRM and IT. I can't say too much about it due to confidentiality, but I would want to bring an app like that to the attention of my boss (the CEO) and the other partners in the context of our project.

You basically want Slack, Skype and Remote Desktop combined...

Speedwell

smash wrote: »

You basically want Slack, Skype and Remote Desktop combined...

Yeah, that's fair to say We currently use all three and it's just stupid! Skype is buggy and unreliable, Slack lacks important features, and GoToAssist crashes Slack, doesn't have a voice chat mode, and isn't terribly well-received by users. We're too busy actually doing the kind of work we do and we're too small to devote resources to developing such an app ourselves. Ugh.

Cianos

Bluefoam wrote: »

I just came across your thread while searching for Slack. I am interested in the product... Seems to be very useful for small businesses, and I particularly see the benefit of allowing payments... I also suggest a shared calendar/events/appointments list that can integrate with your Google Calendar...

How do you intend to monetise the app? Will it be subscription driven; ad driven etc...?

Hi Bluefoam thanks for your interest! Our ethos is to be selective with the number of features we integrate as it's important that the app remains super easy to use and doesn't get bloated - it also keeps things lean for us in the beginning. Calendar/appointments is the next feature we're considering - if it's a popular request we'll most likely work something in providing it doesn't compromise the app's simplicity and usability.

Regarding monetisation, for now the app will be 100% free to use. We'll be looking at usage data after launch to determine the most sensible monetisation options. There are a number of options on how we can do so, but we have to make sure they will add value for the user as well as improve the product and not dissuade users from trying it out.

Speedwell wrote: »

We use Slack in the IT company I work for. The only drawback is that we can't share screens or add voice chat for groups. We wouldn't be interested in switching unless we had those two critical things. We are, in fact, on the lookout for an app that is basically like Slack but 1) allows portability from desktop to mobile device 2) includes support for group voice calls 3) offers screen sharing, including the ability to perform remote assist, 4) is reliable and stable, and 5) is priced attractively. We are currently working on a project that involves partnering with two industry-leader corporations in the field of CRM and IT. I can't say too much about it due to confidentiality, but I would want to bring an app like that to the attention of my boss (the CEO) and the other partners in the context of our project.

Our app isn't what you're looking for I'm afraid!

Speedwell

Thanks, Cianos, I wasn't sure how far you intended your development to go. Best of luck to you!