Tenant running Montessori from our house

Dee24

Hi All

We are accidental landlords, and are renting our house out down the country. We are currently renting, and saving for a new house.

The rent we are getting in does not cover the mortgage for our house.

We were visiting friends at the weekend back down where our house is, and found out that one of our friends nephews goes to Montessori - in our old house.

The tenant is running this for 7-8 kids from our house.

Having gone through the rental agreement, under the Residential Tenancies Act, 1st Sept 2004, states "The Tenant shall not carry out in the property any profession or business whatsoever whether for gain or otherwise. Should the Tenant contravene this regulation, this Agreement shall terminate immediately, but without prejudice to any antecedent rights of the Landlord."

Personally, we would just prefer to increase the rent, and make sure that she is correctly insured for running this business. As otherwise she is an OK tenant, she keeps the place impeccably, but can be a bit demanding at times.

She has been there for 1 year and 2months , and renewed the lease in May for a second year. We had wanted to increase the rent in May from €725 to €780 inline with other properties in the area, she declined, so we agreed at €750.

Personally, with her running this business from the premises, I would look to increase the rent to €950 a month.

Would we be within our rights to do this?

Thanks in advance for the help!

Eric Cartman

simple : 950 a month and proof of insurance or an eviction notice. You can't be having that sort of carry-on in your house unknown.

salamanca22

No you cannot raise the rent again until may of 2016. Landlords may only review the rent once per 12 month period.

If you feel the tenant is breaking the lease then you will have to furnish proper notice of intent to end the lease. I have no idea how legal it is to run the business from the house but I do know the tenant cannot insure the building, only the landlord can as only they have insurable interest in it.

Eric Cartman

salamanca22 wrote: »

No you cannot raise the rent again until may of 2016. Landlords may only review the rent once per 12 month period.

If you feel the tenant is breaking the lease then you will have to furnish proper notice of intent to end the lease. I have no idea how legal it is to run the business from the house but I do know the tenant cannot insure the building, only the landlord can as only they have insurable interest in it.

tenant can have public liability, and I'm sure theres some other insurance product for people looking after kids. The landlord can't be financially responsible if a kid pulls a shelf down on themselves etc..

the landlord may already have had a rent review but with the business operation the goalposts have moved and the OP could terminate the tenancy with notice and redraw a new agreement at a higher price.

snubbleste

Tbh OP, if you are happy with her as a tenant.. leave it as it is.

Pipmae

snubbleste wrote: »

Tbh OP, if you are happy with her as a tenant.. leave it as it is.

+1

She's not exactly make millions running a Montessori for 7 to 8 kids.

18MonthsaSlave

for business the Rates liability falls to the landlord if not paid by tenant.
Change of use planning permission needs to be applied for as it is no longer a residential unit.

Mrs OBumble

And be careful, is the kid really going to proper Montessori (which is a very specific, structured kind of early childhood education) or is it really just child-minding. One indicator of the difference is whether it's 7-8 kids at the same time, or is it perhaps that many over the course of a week, with smaller numbers at any given time?

If it's the latter, then it may not count as running a business in the same kind of way.

If it is a full Montessori, then there may be regulatory issues too: I would like to think that it's unlikely that anyone could get a licence to operate a full centre in a domestic house (very unlikely to have child sized toilets etc) - but I don't know how strict the regs are in this country or how strictly they are applied, so it might just be possible.

ComfortKid

OP you sound like you are just hungry for more money to cover your mortgage.
Is she making enough out of this montessori to pay the increased rent and insurance you will be forcing her to get?

athtrasna

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

for business the Rates liability falls to the landlord if not paid by tenant.
Change of use planning permission needs to be applied for as it is no longer a residential unit.

This times a hundred. The rent is the least of your worries. You need to act on this immediately. She needs to close or move the business, either way she needs to cease operating a business from your house immediately.

I would make a phone call asap and follow it up with a registered letter.

jimmynokia

7-8 kids a week at what per child?
Say if one of those kids have an accident, I think the OP has a right to be concerned. Does the Mark Pollock case not ring a bell..
Windows, stairs and kids. Is there suitable protection in place..

If the tenant is good and has public liability insurance and has met criteria and is registered etc perhaps things should be left as is but I'd be looking for a bit more to be fair. 7/8 kids obviously use up more utilities etc.

athtrasna

jimmynokia wrote: »

If the tenant is good and has public liability insurance and has met criteria and is registered etc perhaps things should be left as is but I'd be looking for a bit more to be fair. 7/8 kids obviously use up more utilities etc.

Without rates being paid and appropriate planning permission it's operating illegally. The landlord is the person who'll get into trouble for these, not the tenant.

Dee24

Thanks Athtrasna you've made some great points and we will be following up with this on Tuesday (the house is let through an agency)

To the poster who said we're money grabbing. This is the least of our concerns, the tenant has taken a contract on false pretenses and is generating an income from this, which is in breach of contract. As another poster has stated what happens if she is uninsured and a child is injured in her care. The liability falls on us as landlords for a business which we were unaware of.

ABajaninCork

ComfortKid wrote: »

OP you sound like you are just hungry for more money to cover your mortgage.
Is she making enough out of this montessori to pay the increased rent and insurance you will be forcing her to get?

I don't think you understand what's at stake here.

Tenant is running a business from a private house. Without his previous knowledge OR his permission. I'm not sure if she has the appropriate insurance or the licences to be childminding (I'm pretty sure she hasn't).

The landlord is liable through HIS insurance if anything happens.

There's also a change of use from private dwelling to commercial premises for which planning permission needs to be sought.

There will be serious problems with the landlord's mortgage provider if they find out a business is being run from the house.

And most leases I've seen preclude the running of a business from the house without prior knowledge or consent.

Personally, I'd be looking to get rid. This sounds like a can of worms.

Jeju

Childminding 7 children at once, I hope she has someone helping as if there is a fire and have to evacuate she can only carry two?

tayto lover

She's probably running the Montessori school to pay the rent in the first place so leave well enough alone. Fair play to her.

Brian Lighthouse

Contact the tenant directly.
Explain who you are.
Ask her to remind you of who she cleared it with to open a school/creche in your house. Was it myself/wife/husband?
Then ask her to show you all the relevant documents - as above - or send on copies and explain that you will be getting advice on the matter due to.....(insert some valid concerns from above comments).
Let the ball in her court for a small while.

Don't be rash, let her get back to you.

ABajaninCork

tayto lover wrote: »

She's probably running the Montessori school to pay the rent in the first place so leave well enough alone. Fair play to her.

Yes. IF the tenant has the qualifications, licences, staffing and appropriate insurance.

But I'd lay money she has none of these. So no. She needs to go IMO.

tayto lover

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Yes. IF the tenant has the qualifications, licences, staffing and appropriate insurance.

But I'd lay money she has none of these. So no. She needs to go IMO.

Why would it matter as long as she's paying the rent?
Just because someone is making a few quid doesn't make the argument for rising the rent imo.
Sounds greedy to do so.

athtrasna

Please no more "leave it be" advice. It has already been established that the tenant is operating illegally without at least planning permission and rates paid, leaving the OP massively exposed.

Mod

Brian Lighthouse

athtrasna wrote: »

Please no more "leave it be" advice. It has already been established that the tenant is operating illegally without at least planning permission and rates paid, leaving the OP massively exposed.

Mod

I see your point, but I don't see where it has been established that the tenant is operating illegally just yet.
Just my opinion on reading all the posts.

ABajaninCork

tayto lover wrote: »

Why would it matter as long as she's paying the rent?
Just because someone is making a few quid doesn't make the argument for rising the rent imo.
Sounds greedy to do so.

You're still not getting it. To mind so many children, the tenant needs to be registered.

She then has to show she has the proper facilities to properly take care of said children.

She also has to show she has proper First Aid certs, access to a doctor if required, and proper provisions in case of fire. As this is a private dwelling, I know that wouldn't be the case.

Oh yes - she has to have properly qualified staff and public liability insurance - at least 2M worth...

And you think the LL's being greedy?? Give me a break. Would YOU put your children with someone unqualified and unlicenced???

salamanca22

tayto lover wrote: »

Why would it matter as long as she's paying the rent?
Just because someone is making a few quid doesn't make the argument for rising the rent imo.
Sounds greedy to do so.

So the tenant should be left to earn some cash while leaving the landlord with a massive liability? In what world is that fair?

a 28 day notice should be furnished next working day which is Tuesday.

Usually 42 days would be required but because the tenant is not fulfilling their obligations then a short period of 28 days can be used. You should also mention that the business is to cease immediately.

athtrasna

Brian Lighthouse wrote: »

I see your point, but I don't see where it has been established that the tenant is operating illegally just yet.
Just my opinion on reading all the posts.

Because the house doesn't have planning permission for commercial use for starters.

tayto lover

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You're still not getting it. To mind so many children, the tenant needs to be registered.

She then has to show she has the proper facilities to properly take care of said children.

She also has to show she has proper First Aid certs, access to a doctor if required, and proper provisions in case of fire. As this is a private dwelling, I know that wouldn't be the case.

Oh yes - she has to have properly qualified staff and public liability insurance - at least 2M worth...

And you think the LL's being greedy?? Give me a break. Would YOU put your children with someone unqualified and unlicenced???

But how do you know she hasn't all those things?
AND it was the OP who suggested rising the rent so he obviously didn't seem too worried even if she hadn't.

katydid

ComfortKid wrote: »

OP you sound like you are just hungry for more money to cover your mortgage.
Is she making enough out of this montessori to pay the increased rent and insurance you will be forcing her to get?

That's rubbish. Anyone would be right to be concerned if they rent a property to an individual on the basis of a private rental and the person decides to run a business. I'm no lawyer, but there are all sorts of legal ramifications here in terms of insurance etc. It needs to be sorted one way or the other immediately.

5uspect

tayto lover wrote: »

But how do you know she hasn't all those things?
AND it was the OP who suggested rising the rent so he obviously didn't seem too worried even if she hadn't.

How would a tenant be even able to get planning permission on the OP's property?

tayto lover

5uspect wrote: »

How would a tenant be even able to get planning permission on the OP's property?

Planning permission??
She's minding a few children.

katydid

tayto lover wrote: »

Planning permission??
She's minding a few children.

I doubt if someone who is running a montessori school would be too happy to be described as "minding a few children".

Montessori teachers are qualified people who run an intensive learning programme.

Stheno

katydid wrote: »

I doubt if someone who is running a montessori school would be too happy to be described as "minding a few children".

Montessori teachers are qualified people who run an intensive learning programme.

And need appropriate qualifications and insurance.

Can't see a tenant getting public liability for running a business from a place they rent from a private landlord in a private house

ABajaninCork

Families are one thing. Having the responsibility of minding other people's kids quite another. Don't confuse the two.