County Standing By Population

Jayop

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://twitter.com/europegaa/status/450647697557422082/photo/1

Now what , Cork's lack of recent success is due to too many clubs? Dublin people to clubs ratio capita number of clubs is on of the lowest so what?

I'm not trying say there's a definitive pattern or dingle set of reasons behind so,e counties being weak if strong. There is however a general pattern within which there will be glaring anomalies like Monaghan in the op.

Western Pomise

Likes of Fermanagh really punching above their weight...as a witty lad said to me at mart the other day...' Jaysus if you took the Lakes,Protestants and Women out of Fermanagh they Havnt much to pick from'.....
Not very PC but kinda true:)

Jayop

Western Pomise wrote: »

Likes of Fermanagh really punching above their weight...as a witty lad said to me at mart the other day...' Jaysus if you took the Lakes,Protestants and Women out of Fermanagh they Havnt much to pick from'.....
Not very PC but kinda true:)

Even the fat kids get a game.

Peist2007

Mayo 17th in terms of population but a consistent contender nevertheless. A serious football county

Mantis Toboggan

There's no doubt that counties that focus on one sport ie mayo in football kilkenny in hurling benefit greatly as opposed to the likes of Galway and Cork who give equal resources to both.

Jayop

Dennis Reynolds wrote: »

There's no doubt that counties that focus on one sport ie mayo in football kilkenny in hurling benefit greatly as opposed to the likes of Galway and Cork who give equal resources to both.

Doesn't say much for the current Meath or Kildare sides. Even Antrim if they want to be a hurling county they make a poor fist of that for such a big county.

seanhynes

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Mayo also steal clubs from.neighbouring counties

Andy Moran should be playing with Roscommon

Mantis Toboggan

seanhynes wrote: »

Andy Moran should be playing with Roscommon

He could easily play for Roscommon if he wanted to.

cj maxx

In any population you will have a % of good athletes . The sport may be dependant on locality but in general the bigger the population the more sucessful you are either as a county , city or country.
Kerry and kilkenny are anomalies due to almost absolute fanstism .
They may prove the point that population alone doesnt guarantee sucess but there definetly is a corelation .

Drumpot

Shows that these figures in isolation count for nothing...

Kerry are the benchmark pretty much every decade and yet their population is closer to all the teams below them then it is to the top 5 counties!

The kind of athletes a county has, Coupled with the right structure and culture is more important then resources and population.

While the likes of cork and other whingebags focus on refs and resources, the kilkennys and Kerry's of the GAA world will continue to thrive making the most out of what they have instead of giving out about what they don't have!

seanhynes

Dennis Reynolds wrote: »

He could easily play for Roscommon if he wanted to.

never quite understood it either why Ballagh compete in Mayo championship,any particular reasoning or is it that a lot of the border players were on the Mayo side of the parish so they decided to play in Mayo

seligehgit

seanhynes wrote: »

Andy Moran should be playing with Roscommon

Why?He plays in the Mayo senior championship for Ballaghaderreen and has of his own free will decided to play for Mayo.

seanhynes

seligehgit wrote: »

Why?He plays in the Mayo senior championship for Ballaghaderreen and has of his own free will decided to play for Mayo.

wasnt serious,I was replying to the posters comment that Mayo nick clubs from other counties to see his response

nice_guy80

seligehgit wrote: »

Why?He plays in the Mayo senior championship for Ballaghaderreen and has of his own free will decided to play for Mayo.

He isn't allowed play for Roscommon, under rule.
simple as

Which is silly, as he lives in Roscommon

nice_guy80

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Not this ****e again.

Well if we're looking at true population figures

Ballaghadereen is a big town, in a very rural county like Roscommon.
take 1200 off the Roscommon population total.

Alf Veedersane

Offaly's haul in both codes looks better in that context.

Doesn't make our current plight any easier to accept, mind you.

seanhynes

he could transfer im sure ,Kilcullen left Mayo for Sligo,not that it would interest him at this stage

seligehgit

seanhynes wrote: »

never quite understood it either why Ballagh compete in Mayo championship,any particular reasoning or is it that a lot of the border players were on the Mayo side of the parish so they decided to play in Mayo

Historically Ballaghaderreen was part of County Mayo.

tayto lover

Tom Joad wrote: »

I'd say 15k of them are recent arrivals (Celtic tiger Dubs stealing our cheap houses around East Cavan/ Ballyjamesdublin ).

Interesting comparison but none of these are perfect and don't take other variables into account. What would be very interesting to put beside the population is no of clubs/ club membership.

There's huge numbers of Dubs living in Bailie-phibs-boro too.

cj maxx

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Well if we're looking at true population figures

Ballaghadereen is a big town, in a very rural county like Roscommon.
take 1200 off the Roscommon population total.

I dont get that post ?

keeponhurling

cjmc wrote: »

I dont get that post ?

The population of Roscommon in the OP would naturally include Ballaghadereen.

However if inhabitants of this town are excluded from playing for Roscommon (because the local GAA club plays in Mayo), then it's overstating their GAA population.

cj maxx

keeponhurling wrote: »

The population of Roscommon in the OP would naturally include Ballaghadereen.

However if inhabitants of this town are excluded from playing for Roscommon (because the local GAA club plays in Mayo), then it's overstating their GAA population.

Ah , get you now.

BonnieSituation

seligehgit wrote: »

Historically Ballaghaderreen was part of County Mayo.

At this stage you could say it's historically part of Mayo.

1898 is a long time to be cribbing about a border change.

*gets coat and runs*

K-9

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ah come on, quit with the excuses

Clubs and the amount of football played also have a big factor of course as people are saying.

I onced asked an old Mayo man living here in Kerry about what the difference between Mayo and Kerry were and he said that he found there was far more football being played in Kerry.

I dont know what its like elsewhere but each club would play the following competitions in Kerry.

County league
Club championship (junior, intermediate, or senior)
County championship (clubs that are not senior may have players on the divisional team)
Divisional championship
Divisional league.

That means that you are playing football from March to new year's day

A bit similar to the rugby structures in Ireland.

Strange nobody else has followed it.

K-9

Jayop wrote: »

Doesn't say much for the current Meath or Kildare sides. Even Antrim if they want to be a hurling county they make a poor fist of that for such a big county.

I'm not sure how big a hurling county Antrim actually is, the Glens, a few city clubs, think even Down clubs play there, not a huge pick.

Hammer Archer

Jayop wrote: »

Doesn't say much for the current Meath or Kildare sides. Even Antrim if they want to be a hurling county they make a poor fist of that for such a big county.

A lot of the counties just outside Dublin have their populations slightly skewed by the amount of Dublin people that have moved into the area yet still play for their home clubs and/or for Dublin. For Meath, Mick Deegan is a fantastic club footballer yet plays intercounty for Dublin. Darren Daly currently lives in Ratoath. 2 of Dublin's Leinster minor winners of last year also live in Ratoath yet play for their parents' clubs.
There's a good chunk of the young population in Meath anyway that would have no interest in playing for Meath.
Not all of them mind you. The captain of our last team to win the Leinster minor championship in 2006 was as big a Dub as you could imagine yet wouldn't consider playing for them as he was playing club football in Meath.

DanielODonnell

I would say that 40% of Derrys population are Scotch-Irish Protestants wo Derry is a wee county in GAA terms, Tyrone is quite big as there are less protestants apart from the east, antrim and down have Protestant majorities.

Jayop

DanielODonnell wrote: »

I would say that 40% of Derrys population are Scotch-Irish Protestants wo Derry is a wee county in GAA terms, Tyrone is quite big as there are less protestants apart from the east, antrim and down have Protestant majorities.

One reason I didn't go too much into the protestant/catholic thing was because I think there's probably a higher percentage of GAA fans in the 6 NI counties from the nationalist population than there would be if they weren't in the North.

Less Catholics, but more of those Catholics are Gaels? Just a theory anyway.

DanielODonnell

Jayop wrote: »

One reason I didn't go too much into the protestant/catholic thing was because I think there's probably a higher percentage of GAA fans in the 6 NI counties from the nationalist population than there would be if they weren't in the North.

Less Catholics, but more of those Catholics are Gaels? Just a theory anyway.

There is a bit of truth in that, even if you aren't much of a fan you would follow the county in the chmapionship.

I must argue your use on the term "gael" though, anyone with Gaelic ancestry is a gael, even some of the loyalists with Mc surnames

aveytare

Jayop wrote: »

One reason I didn't go too much into the protestant/catholic thing was because I think there's probably a higher percentage of GAA fans in the 6 NI counties from the nationalist population than there would be if they weren't in the North.

Less Catholics, but more of those Catholics are Gaels? Just a theory anyway.

I'd have thought it'd be a similar proportion North and South.

Dots1982

As per present population numbers Offaly are the last county to win a football All ireland (1982) with a population in the bottom half of the order.

And people say population doesn't really matter :rolleyes:

Jayop

aveytare wrote: »

I'd have thought it'd be a similar proportion North and South.

Like I said it's just a theory, but from personal experience growing up in Tyrone and not in a GAA stronghold by any means compared to my experience living in Sligo I would say more people are interested in the county especially. That's Tyrone though the 80's and 90's with limited success too I might add.

I would say population is a big correlative factor in terms of bringing extra revenue to a county setup and helping the training funds. But then there is a one or two that curb the trend that little bit. Monaghan for example have a population of 5000 larger then Carlow and yet you couldnt get two more polarising football counties at the moment. I would think that Carlow might be trying to juggle too many balls in terms of promoting both codes and hasnt made up its mind whether its predominately football or hurling. Also Rugby in particular is arguably the top sport in Carlow with Tullow and Co Carlow being traditional institutions within the county. Alot of young lads growing up in Carlow would aspire to be Sean O'Brien these times id imagine

Cork proved yesterday that population is all well and good that is unless you have total and utter jackasses running the show. Compare those backward ostriches to the likes of the late Andy Kettle or Dave Billings for example who helped to implement tremendous structures in Dublin.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Jayop wrote: »

Like I said it's just a theory, but from personal experience growing up in Tyrone and not in a GAA stronghold by any means compared to my experience living in Sligo I would say more people are interested in the county especially. That's Tyrone though the 80's and 90's with limited success too I might add.

There's your problem.

K-9

Jayop wrote: »

Like I said it's just a theory, but from personal experience growing up in Tyrone and not in a GAA stronghold by any means compared to my experience living in Sligo I would say more people are interested in the county especially. That's Tyrone though the 80's and 90's with limited success too I might add.

Ye had 2 AI finals, a few Ulsters and 2 AI U-21's IIRC though, a hell of a lot compared to Sligo.

Mahogany

Jayop wrote: »

Noticed this post in the All-Ireland thread and upon looking at it it's remarkable how close the population tallies to counties standing in football.

I'm colour coding the list to show.



Division 1
Division 2
Division 3
Division 4

1 Dublin 1,273,069
2 Antrim 618,108
3 Down 531,665
4 Cork 519,032
5 Galway 250,541
6 Derry 247,132
7 Kildare 210,312
8 Limerick 191,809
9 Meath 184,135
10 Tyrone 179,000
11 Armagh 174,792
12 Donegal 161,137
13 Tipperary 158,754
14 Kerry 145,502
15 Wexford 145,320
16 Wicklow 136,640
17 Mayo 130,638
18 Louth 122,897
19 Clare 117,196
20 Waterford 113,795
22 Westmeath 86,164
23 Laois 80,559
24 Offaly 76,687
25 Cavan 73,183
26 Sligo 65,393
27 Roscommon64,065
28 Fermanagh 61,170
29 Monaghan 60,483
30 Carlow 54,612
31 Longford 39,000
32 Leitrim 31,796

As expected

5 of the top 6 counties by population are Div 1 & 2
9 of the top 12 counties by population are Div 1 & 2
The bottom 3 counties are all Division 3 & 4.
8 of the middle 16 counties are Div 2 & 3

There's counties of course punching above their weight.

Monaghan and Roscommon with the 6th and 4th lowest population in the county are in Div 1.
Fermanagh with the 5th lowest are in Div 2 and got to the last 16 in the AI this year.


And counties who have big populations but low standing.
Antrim - mainly unionist county with a big hurling culture
Kildare - No excuse, football county with 7th biggest population should be better.
Limerick - Hurling county
Tipp - Hurling county

Wicklow have to be the biggest underachievers in GAA.

loyatemu

Mahogany wrote:

Wicklow have to be the biggest underachievers in GAA.

I'd say so - not a single provincial title...

Fewer clubs? Fewer players? Rugby & soccer are more popular in parts of the county. Baltinglass have won the club title though.

davegrohl48

Cork lose a lot of talent in football and hurling to professional sport.
Maybe Donal Og can consider that before ripping a man apart on live tv.
Structure, structure, structure structure nonsense is all we hear. Mayo have no underage structures and are in the top 4. The senior team wants for nothing.
What exactly do the football and hurling senior team not get in Cork? Tyrone have the best underage structures and are outside the top 4.

harpsman

Mahogany wrote: »

Wicklow have to be the biggest underachievers in GAA.

And Carlow. With their populations in predominantly gaelic football counties its a bit of a disgrace how bad they are. Down have surprisingly big pop too but Im assuming that includes the North Down and South Belfast middle classes who wouldn't be big GAA people!

Mahogany

Mahogany wrote: »

Wicklow have to be the biggest underachievers in GAA.

Someone made the argument to be that Meath and Kildare's populations have shot up as a result of being practically suburbs of Dublin and that the Dublin contingent doesnt really benefit either county (Owing probably to the intense rivalry there) Perhaps Wicklow also have that argument? Although can the soccer/Rugby argument be applied here also?

You have to look at the individual demographs of each county also as well as the competiting factors. And most of all the setup is crucial. You can have blind men driving the train and a poor coaching structure at underage.

threeball

How are the dual counties on here split.
Geographically and population wise Galway would be close to 50/50 with almost no football in the south and no hurling in the northeast/west.
Cork would be similar but with the hurling areas having a bigger population base.
Dublin is very mixed, but what about the rest.

Jayop

K-9 wrote: »

Ye had 2 AI finals, a few Ulsters and 2 AI U-21's IIRC though, a hell of a lot compared to Sligo.

Ach I know that, but did we get those successes because of the interest in the GAA or did we get the interest in the GAA because of those successes?

Which is the causal factor?

threeball

threeball wrote: »

How are the dual counties on here split.
Geographically and population wise Galway would be close to 50/50 with almost no football in the south and no hurling in the northeast/west.
Cork would be similar but with the hurling areas having a bigger population base.
Dublin is very mixed, but what about the rest.

Tipp are becoming a bit more mixed. A North Tipp team (albeit a 9 club combo) won the county in 2012. Moyle Rovers who are traditionally football, won the minor A county hurling last year and beat some hotly fancied sides en route. Stephen Quirke of Moyle Rovers (brother of Philip minor football winner from 2011) is currently county minor captain

The county football team at all levels have a few North men. Roscrea's Alan Tynan (Who played Leinster schools rugby for Roscrea this year) was particularly good for the minor footballers yesterday, the u21s had Stephen O'Brien and the seniors have had stalwart Philip Austin for quite a while now.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

threeball

Deleted User wrote: »

Tipp are becoming a bit more mixed. A North Tipp team (albeit a 9 club combo) won the county in 2012. Moyle Rovers who are traditionally football, won the minor A county hurling last year and beat some hotly fancied sides en route. Stephen Quirke of Moyle Rovers (brother of Philip minor football winner from 2011) is currently county minor captain

The county football team at all levels have a few North men. Roscrea's Alan Tynan (Who played Leinster schools rugby for Roscrea this year) was particularly good for the minor footballers yesterday, the u21s had Stephen O'Brien and the seniors have had stalwart Philip Austin for quite a while now.

I wish Galway could move away from the segregation a bit. There's a lot of fine athletes missed by one code or the other with the way we're split. Its hard to imagine there wouldn't be some fantastic footballers around south Galway that didn't quite cut it as hurlers and vice versa.

threeball

threeball wrote: »

I wish Galway could move away from the segregation a bit. There's a lot of fine athletes missed by one code or the other with the way we're split. Its hard to imagine there wouldn't be some fantastic footballers around south Galway that didn't quite cut it as hurlers and vice versa.

Alan Kerins is one such example.

Would Ballinasloe be that intersection on the venn diagram?

harpsman

Jayop wrote: »

Ach I know that, but did we get those successes because of the interest in the GAA or did we get the interest in the GAA because of those successes?

Which is the causal factor?

Eh? Tyrone has always been a football mad county among the catholic population. Id be surprised if theres a more fanatical county in Ireland. Probably explains some of the behaviour of some of their teams and spectators over the years.

threeball

Deleted User wrote: »

Alan Kerins is one such example.

Would Ballinasloe be that intersection on the venn diagram?

You could nearly run the line along the M6 and everything 10km north of it from Ballinasloe to Athenry. From that point south is Hurling. North East Galway, the City and West Galway which is about 50% national park is football. I'd say our football pick would be smaller than Mayos.

harpsman

harpsman wrote: »

Eh? Tyrone has always been a football mad county among the catholic population. Id be surprised if theres a more fanatical county in Ireland. Probably explains some of the behaviour of some of their teams and spectators over the years.

Some lovely people up in Tyrone and despite all the bad blood between ourselves and themselves after the u21 final i believe Mickey Harte and Co were absolute gentlemen to the Tipperary supporters after the whistle. Signed autographs, stood in for selfies/photos with kids and adults alike, and the Tyrone supporters wrote a lovely letter of appreciation to the Tipperary county board afterwards thanking them for their great day out in Semple.

Jayop

harpsman wrote: »

Eh? Tyrone has always been a football mad county among the catholic population. Id be surprised if theres a more fanatical county in Ireland. Probably explains some of the behaviour of some of their teams and spectators over the years.

That was my original point I think, but it's so long since I made it I'm not sure.

I think I was saying that Tyrone, regardless of success have a bigger percentage of GAA supporters among the catholic/nationalist population than most southern counties would have.

Say Tyrone has 179,000 people and 60% are catholic (rough figure).

That's 107,400 potential GAA heads. Waterford has a population of 113,000 but I'd guess that there's more GAA fans in the 107k catholics in Tyrone that the 113k people in Waterford.

I'm saying that would compensate in some way for the fact that there is a large percentage of the population who would never follow GAA because of political/religious reasons.

A pure guess but I reckon it is mitigating.



Nice cheap shot there about Tyrone. :rolleyes:;)