Man Utd jersey sexist?

awec

Mars Bar wrote: »

Nike obviously thought otherwise.



That's not true.

Did they actually take into consideration the few women who do play, or did they just take the easy option and produce a mens option with more room in it because it never occurred to them to try anything else? I suspect the later, and if these sell well I would not be surprised to see more tops like this in future.

It's pretty much unisex. There will be fitting problems, but there are fitting problems in the jersey for men as well.

Little CuChulainn

Mars Bar wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the lack of a women's team!

You do know that all of the women's teams in the WSL in England have carbon copy jerseys of the men apart from the shape. No boobs on show there. That goes for the Adidas sponsored teams too.

The main football jersey is designed solely for men because there is only a mens football team. Both men and women can wear it. The shirt with a low neck line is a fashion item for women who want to wear a top with a low neck line. It's not designed to be used for playing football.

Little CuChulainn

awec wrote: »

Did they actually take into consideration the few women who do play, or did they just take the easy option and produce a mens option with more room in it because it never occurred to them to try anything else? I suspect the later, and if these sell well I would not be surprised to see more tops like this in future.

It's pretty much unisex. There will be fitting problems, but there are fitting problems in the jersey for men as well.

When you play football with your team do you wear a man utd jersey or your team jersey?

Mars Bar

awec wrote: »

Did they actually take into consideration the few women who do play, or did they just take the easy option and produce a mens option with more room in it because it never occurred to them to try anything else? I suspect the later, and if these sell well I would not be surprised to see more tops like this in future.

It's pretty much unisex. There will be fitting problems, but there are fitting problems in the jersey for men as well.

I'd say Nike just thought that both men and women would like the exact same features and design as the pros they see on the team.

That's all I want. Exactly as it is seen on T.V. That usually comes with the bonus of being practical for football. It's disappointing for me that this jersey isn't the same as they have omitted the black line in the colour. As for the plunge, I'll wait and see if it's as deep as it looks.

Mars Bar

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

When you play football with your team do you wear a man utd jersey or your team jersey?

I feel that this was meant for me and not Awec.

I play casual astro so I don't wear my team jerseys. I rotate between my Galaxy and United jerseys (both my boys one from a few seasons ago and my new woman's one from last season).

awec

Mars Bar wrote: »

I'd say Nike just thought that both men and women would like the exact same features and design as the pros they see on the team.

That's all I want. Exactly as it is seen on T.V. That usually comes with the bonus of being practical for football. It's disappointing for me that this jersey isn't the same as they have omitted the black line in the colour. As for the plunge, I'll wait and see if it's as deep as it looks.

You are not the typical customer though. You play football, the overwhelming majority of women who buy these tops do not. Therefore, for the overwhelming majority of women the practical side of it is unnecessary.

These are aimed at women who watch football, who go to the games or to the pub, probably with their boyfriend / husband / whatever. They're for women who want a more fashionable and feminine top, not the few who want a top to play 5 aside in.

Dan_Solo

Mars Bar wrote: »

What's the women's purpose? In this case it appears* to show cleavage with no other practical use. It's got one function only and personally, that's not what I primarily buy a jersey for.

You'd have to ask then why you'd find it difficult to find low-cut men's tops but no bother finding women's.

kylith

I wonder if a guy came on to complain that the neckline on the men's was too tight he'd be told to just buy a woman's one.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Well yeah, to an extent, I mean, truthfully it's only aggressive responses from some men, but I have to admit I was surprised by the responses from some women that this jersey is slutty, trashy, women should wear something more modest, etc.

I haven't seen anyone say that, but I've seen plenty say that they'd like the option of deciding whether or not to have a low neckline.

awec wrote: »

Most women will never, ever wear it to play football (because they don't play).

I'd say that the majority of men won't be wearing it when they play either. I'd say that most people of either gender wear team jerseys as fashion items rather than actual sportswear.

T

awec wrote: »

he few women who do play football can buy the mens one, which is pretty much unisex anyway.

But which isn't cut too fit women, being either too wide in the shoulders or too tight on the chest and hips.

Mars Bar

awec wrote: »

You are not the typical customer though. You play football, the overwhelming majority of women who buy these tops do not. Therefore, for the overwhelming majority of women the practical side of it is unnecessary.

These are aimed at women who watch football, who go to the games or to the pub, probably with their boyfriend / husband / whatever. They're for women who want a more fashionable and feminine top, not the few who want a top to play 5 aside in.

Personally speaking, I can only think of two girls who buy jerseys and don't play football. I know at least 30 women who play.

Anyway, with Dan's arrival I shall leave this thread.

If I buy the jersey, I'll post a pic of me wearing it!

Dan_Solo

Mars Bar wrote: »

Anyway, with Dan's arrival I shall leave this thread.

One eyed Jack

kylith wrote: »

I wonder if a guy came on to complain that the neckline on the men's was too tight he'd be told to just buy a woman's one.

Can't speak for anyone else but I wouldn't be able to take his complaint seriously either. I'd try and hold myself together long enough to tell him to buy a bigger size.

As I have always understood these supporters jerseys (and I'm speaking from the view of a rugby fan), there was never any distinction made between "a man's jersey" and "a woman's jersey", women and men both wore the same jerseys!

I haven't seen anyone say that, but I've seen plenty say that they'd like the option of deciding whether or not to have a low neckline.

I just checked back on the thread again. You're right, the word used was 'sluttish', not slutty, but yes the word trashy was used, as was the suggestion of modesty that parents wouldn't buy these jerseys for their teenage daughters.

namloc1980

What about the women who like or wish to have the lower neckline? It would seem the conservative agenda don't want that.

osarusan

One eyed Jack wrote: »

As I have always understood these supporters jerseys (and I'm speaking from the view of a rugby fan), there was never any distinction made between "a man's jersey" and "a woman's jersey", women and men both wore the same jerseys!
.

IRFU have shirts specifically for women on their online shop. So do Leinster rugby. Munster rugby too.

One eyed Jack

osarusan wrote: »

IRFU have shirts specifically for women on their online shop. So do Leinster rugby. Munster rugby too.

Genuinely that is news to me now tbh!

I knew about the GAA supporters jerseys for women alright, not much of a fuss about them nowadays, I have no idea how well they're selling -

https://www.oneills.com/shop-by-team/gaa/baby-gaa/pink-jerseys.html

Barely There

I will need to see what the shorts look like before I can call this one.

anncoates

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Carry on with the DM sneering though.

Ta. Will do.

MikeSD

Poor Palermo.

Cold War Kid

Meh, V-necks are way more flattering on me than round necks.

Tin Foil Hat

Christ lads, the world is getting frighteningly conservative. It's a top. If you want it, buy it. If you don't, then leave it on the shelf. This is not news.

Sir Gallagher

So is is conservative or feminist, who's the boogeyman here?

namloc1980

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

So is is conservative or feminist, who's the boogeyman here?

Conservative feminists?

One eyed Jack

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

So is is conservative or feminist, who's the boogeyman here?

boogeyperson? :pac:


Seriously though, I don't think there's any particular group needs demonising here. The only people that should be embarrassed by this are those who are trying to create an issue where there clearly isn't one.

What that woman essentially did was buy a jersey a few sizes too small, in order to make a point that it was showing her cleavag. The lesson here is buy a proper size jersey if you're going to buy one at all, but you have no reason to complain if other people choose to buy the jersey.

Chances are Adidas are only too delighted with the free publicity that will see these jerseys flying off the shelves with only the adult sizes left in stock!

osarusan

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Seriously though, I don't think there's any particular group needs demonising here. The only people that should be embarrassed by this are those who are trying to create an issue where there clearly isn't one.

Agree that there is no need to be demonising, but, if I understand correctly, there is a history of clubs selling replica shirts designed for women, and these shirts look pretty much identical to the men's shirts. They can be worn for fashion or for sport.

Why Adidas and Man. United decided to release this new design with a lower cut, not as well as but instead of the usual identical replica, is something I don't really understand.

Posters have said it is a business decision, and I'm sure it is, but if there is a history of clubs selling these dual-purpose replica tops for women, then that is a business decision also (women must be buying them), and Adidas would be alienating at least some part of a potential customer base.

Adidas says the new shirt gives female fans 'more choice' but I don't see how it does.

Gatling

osarusan wrote: »

Adidas says the new shirt gives female fans 'more choice' but I don't see how it does.

Simple

Replica Shirt -replica of the players kit not to be confused with the rather more and rare real kit which can be bought through specialists shops .

Fashion top - flattering to the female form probably goes well with jeans and skirts styled after the replica kit more with fashion conscious ladies in mind .

Simples

osarusan

Gatling wrote: »

Simple

Replica Shirt -replica of the players kit not to be confused with the rather more and rare real kit which can be bought through specialists shops .

Fashion top - flattering to the female form probably goes well with jeans and skirts styled after the replica kit more with fashion conscious ladies in mind .

Simples

Not so simple.

Last year Nike gave two choices for women:

Buy the top designed for women (suitable for playing football too) or buy the top designed for men.


This year Adidas gives two choices for women:

But the top designed for women (might not be that suitable for playing in) or buy the top designed for men.

It isn't any more choice than they had, as far as I can see, just different choices.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Don't women like wearing tops like that though so how exactly can it be sexist if anything it's making a jersey that suits their tastes which is the exact opposite of sexism.Expecting them to conform and just wear a male style top would be more sexist would it not.

Dirty Dingus McGee

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Genuinely that is news to me now tbh!

I knew about the GAA supporters jerseys for women alright, not much of a fuss about them nowadays, I have no idea how well they're selling -

https://www.oneills.com/shop-by-team/gaa/baby-gaa/pink-jerseys.html

The GAA jerseys for women are ridiculous.

The whole point of having a jersey is tat your wearing your counties colours so I don't get someone would want to buy a pink jersey that has the counties crest and sponsor on it.It defeats the purpose of buying the jersey in my opinion.

One eyed Jack

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Don't women like wearing tops like that though so how exactly can it be sexist if anything it's making a jersey that suits their tastes which is the exact opposite of sexism.Expecting them to conform and just wear a male style top would be more sexist would it not.

There are a number of different ways a person could look at this latest... meh, it's not even an "outrage", never really got off the ground as it's sport related for one, and then it's peculiar to a particular team, it's just not all that "outrageous", so the whole identity politics and social justice angle just doesn't really work.

It's no surprise that it was picked up by the Daily Mail, and they tried, they really tried, but it just didn't come off for them on this occasion.

padd b1975

Mars Bar wrote: »

My good sports bra would be higher than the neckline according to those pictures.

There's also a wide range of training tops available too.

Although I suppose there's something wrong with them as well......

One eyed Jack

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The GAA jerseys for women are ridiculous.

The whole point of having a jersey is tat your wearing your counties colours so I don't get someone would want to buy a pink jersey that has the counties crest and sponsor on it.It defeats the purpose of buying the jersey in my opinion.

Well that's just it, I don't know how well they are or aren't selling now, but I didn't see them around at all this year and I didn't see any women wearing them at the televised matches, but there was the same fuss when they came out, and not a word about them now.

frostyjacks

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's no surprise that it was picked up by the Daily Mail, and they tried, they really tried, but it just didn't come off for them on this occasion.

I'd love to see this particular jersey come off, thanks very much.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The GAA jerseys for women are ridiculous.

The whole point of having a jersey is tat your wearing your counties colours so I don't get someone would want to buy a pink jersey that has the counties crest and sponsor on it.It defeats the purpose of buying the jersey in my opinion.

Are they not sold to raise awareness/funds for Breast Cancer research?

Gatling

osarusan wrote: »

This year Adidas gives two choices for women:

But the top designed for women (might not be that suitable for playing in) or buy the top designed for men.

But there not kits

Both male and female are essentially fashion kits believe when you spend €100+ on a real jersey that the team play in same materials and so on .then you can complain.
But theses are fashion tops nothing more or nothing less .

There not playing kits .
2nd or third poster moaning about a girls/ladies fashion top not been suitable for a kickabout

Aineoil

Saw this on the Daily Mail before it was posted on boards.

I didn't see a problem with the shirt - and I am a female. My puppies are big but a good bra fitted by good retailer will sort out the issue of them popping out or anything else.

The OH only has one worry now.....Do Liverpool do shirts like this?

Sir Gallagher

Gatling wrote: »

But there not kits

Both male and female are essentially fashion kits believe when you spend €100+ on a real jersey that the team play in same materials and so on .then you can complain.
But theses are fashion tops nothing more or nothing less .

There not playing kits .
2nd or third poster moaning about a girls/ladies fashion top not been suitable for a kickabout

Go down to your local astro turf pitches tomorrow night and check out how many lads are wearing jerseys, it'll be the majority of them.

Super-Rush

My girlfriend bought one of these today.

Its a fucking disgrace.

ShaShaBear

I'd never fit my tats into a shirt like that. And I certainly would not feel even a scratch comfortable with breasts of mine on show in one like that at a game. I'd look like a bloody overweight porn star with EE cup spilling out of it.
I can't even comfortably wear the male ones as I'm too heavy chested and it just causes the whole front of the jersey to pull up which means I spend all day tugging it back down.

There's a neckline and then there's that :eek:

OneOfThem

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Go down to your local astro turf pitches tomorrow night and check out how many lads are wearing jerseys, it'll be the majority of them.

And are they wearing them due to the contributions they make to their sporting performance? Do you think? You're proving his point.

Sir Gallagher

OneOfThem wrote: »

And are they wearing them due to the contributions they make to their sporting performance? Do you think? You're proving his point.

And my point is they have an option to play in them which, in the case of this jersey, women dont.

Another point is a lot of women wont want to wear this jersey to a match or pub etc. as it will draw unwanted attention. Im sure a lot of women just want to go to the match wearing a jersey with a decent fit which doesn't sexualise them.

Gatling

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

And my point is they have an option to play in them which, in the case of this jersey, women dont.

Another point is a lot of women wont want to wear this jersey to a match or pub etc. as it will draw unwanted attention. Im sure a lot of women just want to go to the match wearing a jersey with a decent fit which doesn't sexualise them.

Based off what exactly

The non existent Plunge neckline.

The fitted form.

A little sense maybe rather than an attempt victimisation

namloc1980

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

And my point is they have an option to play in them which, in the case of this jersey, women dont.

Another point is a lot of women wont want to wear this jersey to a match or pub etc. as it will draw unwanted attention. Im sure a lot of women just want to go to the match wearing a jersey with a decent fit which doesn't sexualise them.

What are you suggesting? You're not assuming men are uncontrollable pervs are you?

Sir Gallagher

Gatling wrote: »

Based off what exactly

The non existent Plunge neckline.

The fitted form.

A little sense maybe rather than an attempt victimisation

Theres a post above from a woman who said straight out that her chest would be too big to be covered by that jersey. Perhaps she didnt see your post with the picture of the woman with the small chest wearing the jersey.

Im not sure what your idea of a plunging neckline is, Jennifer Lopez at the MTV awards perhaps. I know the "neckline" on this jersey is nowhere near the neck at all.

I and others have given examples of female jerseys with a fitted form already and the consensus is they are best option e.g united's womens jersey last year.

One of the original articles featured a woman who said that she wouldnt feel confortable attending a match in the new jersey. Consider some of the comments here and on other sites where blokes are basically admitting they'd be attracted/turned on by a woman in the jersey. Is it that much of a stretch to consider that a woman might not want this attention and just support her team like the rest of us, surely in that case the previous option or a different option would suit.

Im no raging feminist or SJW by any stretch, i just think that women should be given a fair shake and there's more to them than a pair of tits.

Sheep Lover

You'd swear the bould Louis Van Gaal was coming around female Utd supporters houses with a scissors and cutting up their clothes. Buy the thing or don't, fecking slow news day when this is what you spurt your outrage on.

namloc1980

If you don't like the product, just don't buy it. It really is as simple as that.

Gatling

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Im no raging feminist or SJW by any stretch, i just think that women should be given a fair shake and there's more to them than a pair of tits.

Wild imagination

Total over reaction and victimisation.

Your actually correct about one tthing there's more to them than breasts and certainly don't need saving from a fashion top

J Mysterio

Those jerseys are fuçking awesome! I hope to see many ladies sporting them.

Samaris

Well, Gatling, a few women on here, myself included, have commented that we think they are daft (and, proving that we XX chromosomed people aren't a hive mind, some have said that they're cool with them). I, and the other people that reckon they're over the top may not need 'saving' from them ( no, I don't think they'll bite) but we are quite as entitled as you are to have an opinion on the things, aren't we?

My opinion is that they're impractical, over-showy, sexualised and actually kinda fugly. I personally would prefer a sports jersey (yes, yes fashion top pretending to be a sports jersey) could actually be functional for the prices paid for them.

What is patronising is differing opinions to yours being 'over-reaction', 'victimisation' and whatever the other one was. Snort. (By the way, you be sporting one of them for the next game?) :P

Kylo Ren

Yes, I definitely think it's the sexiest.

InitiumNovum

Of course it's sexist, but why is it surprising? The very fact that there are separate male and female clothing sections in clothing shops with different types of clothing available for both sexes/genders is emblematic of the rampant sexism and inherent patriarchal attitudes which prevail our society. Getting rid of this objectifying new jersey isn't going to solve anything, it's not even the tip of the iceberg -- you're talking about hundreds of thousands of different clothing brands, anything that's available in mainstream stores.

Hammer89

The sexism theory hinges on whether or not United's womens team - if they even have one - will be expected to wear that shirt. If not then explain to me why it's different to any other women's shirt with a plunging neckline? Nobody is forcing you to buy it; much in the same way that nobody is forcing you to buy any women's shirt in which your cleavage will be accentuated. It's an option - and quite a clever one considering millions upon millions of blokes will buy one for their partners.