Religion in junior infants

lazygal

One eyed Jack wrote: »

And just like you don't need religion to teach a child morals and values and ethics and so on, you don't need an ET school to encourage individuality, independence, nor to give children a voice.

I don't like the idea of children calling me by my first name, and I'm one of those parents who prefers to have all the children wearing their uniforms as they represent the school (saves a fortune too on buying clothes throughout the year).

If that's a crap attitude to children, then I'll take that judgement with a pinch of salt tbh, I certainly don't think I have a crap attitude to children, and I don't think at all that the vast majority of people in this country have a crap attitude to children's welfare. They just have a different perspective to yours is all on what is best for their own children.

I call my parents by their first names. I call pretty much everyone by their first names. I don't see why it would ever create a problem for anyone.

zeffabelli

lazygal wrote: »

I call my parents by their first names. I call pretty much everyone by their first names. I don't see why it would ever create a problem for anyone.

Yeah I don't like this.

I like a little bit of formality.

lazygal

zeffabelli wrote: »

Yeah I don't like this.

I like a little bit of formality.

Do you call any adults Mr or Ms X or Y? I can't remember the last time I did. I like treating children as capable of being respectful without needing to use a title for an adult.

frostyjacks

I think it's weird for children to call their teachers and parents by their first names. Doesn't show a lot of respect.

As for morals and ethics, I'm sure children can learn about them in non-religious schools, but they just don't carry the same weight. If you don't bring children up with a faith, why would you expect them to stick to a moral code? Maybe that's why those schools have issues with discipline as mentioned earlier.

purplecow1977

lazygal wrote: »

Do you call any adults Mr or Ms X or Y? I can't remember the last time I did. I like treating children as capable of being respectful without needing to use a title for an adult.

Children are not adults.

A certain amount of formality and respect is expected in schools.

In fact, I'd probably call it good manners.

One eyed Jack

lazygal wrote: »

I call my parents by their first names. I call pretty much everyone by their first names. I don't see why it would ever create a problem for anyone.

Well I'm not my parents friend, I'm their son. I'm also not my wife's parents friend, nor am I their child, and so I call them "Mr. ...", "Mrs. ..." when I address them. I expect the same from my son as I'm not his friend, I'm his parent, and I expect the same of other children because, well, you get the idea - I'm not their parent either.

I personally prefer formalities like that, and my wife's parents don't mind, they thought it was a little unusual at first, but 17 years later they don't bat an eyelid when I call them Mr. or Mrs., and my son calls them grandad and granny. He doesn't call them by their first names either.

It's not that it creates a problem at all, it's simply a personal preference is all.

byhookorbycrook

eviltwin wrote: »

Some people don't like the idea of small children calling adults by their first name or not wearing a uniform.

Most Gaelscoileanna use 1st names, we don't find it an issue. Respect comes from within, not a title.

purplecow1977

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Most Gaelscoileanna use 1st names, we don't find it an issue. Respect comes from within, not a title.

It must be personal preference - I rather they call me Ms. X

zeffabelli

lazygal wrote: »

Do you call any adults Mr or Ms X or Y? I can't remember the last time I did. I like treating children as capable of being respectful without needing to use a title for an adult.

Yes I do. I wouldn't dream of addressing a teacher by a first name, in any school, whether my own teacher or my child's. I would feel over familiar with first names.

I also don't address other adults whom I don't know with me or Mrs and I expect the teachers to address me as Ms. ..... I also refer to other pertinent adults like the dad as Mr...... When talking to the school.

I also don't like seeing teachers in flip flops. It's unprofessional.

lazygal

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Most Gaelscoileanna use 1st names, we don't find it an issue. Respect comes from within, not a title.

Exactly. You don't command respect simply by insisting on being addressed formally.

purplecow1977

zeffabelli wrote: »

Yes I do. I wouldn't dream of addressing a teacher by a first name, in any school, whether my own teacher or my child's. I would feel over familiar with first names.

I also don't address other adults whom I don't know with me or Mrs and I expect the teachers to address me as Ms. ..... I also refer to other pertinent adults like the dad as Mr...... When talking to the school.

Interestingly, I sign my first name on notes from school to parents and in phone calls, and some address me by that in person, others don't, they say Ms. X I think it goes back to times of 'respect your elders' but I suppose that's the Catholic Church fault also! :rolleyes:

lazygal

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Children are not adults.

A certain amount of formality and respect is expected in schools.

In fact, I'd probably call it good manners.

All of which many schools achieve without insisting on Mr and Ms being used.

Not a NSA agent

frostyjacks wrote: »

I think it's weird for children to call their teachers and parents by their first names. Doesn't show a lot of respect.

As for morals and ethics, I'm sure children can learn about them in non-religious schools, but they just don't carry the same weight. If you don't bring children up with a faith, why would you expect them to stick to a moral code? Maybe that's why those schools have issues with discipline as mentioned earlier.

Im really struggling to think you are being serious anymore. You have to be trying to wind people up.

One eyed Jack

lazygal wrote: »

Do you call any adults Mr or Ms X or Y? I can't remember the last time I did. I like treating children as capable of being respectful without needing to use a title for an adult.

Again though, it's not exactly an either/or scenario. I like to treat children as capable of being respectful too, but as a personal preference I prefer them to use my formal title. It's never been an issue for anyone else either in my experience. Only once did a friend of one of my children call me by my first name and I corrected them on it, no biggy, and since then he addresses me by my formal title and we get on grand.

purplecow1977

lazygal wrote: »

All of which many schools achieve without insisting on Mr and Ms being used.

Only the elusive ET schools though!

zeffabelli

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Interestingly, I sign my first name on notes from school to parents and in phone calls, and some address me by that in person, others don't, they say Ms. X I think it goes back to times of 'respect your elders' but I suppose that's the Catholic Church fault also! :rolleyes:

I think it's an acknowledgement this is not a friendship or family this is business of sorts.

Like I said I had a secular education and no way would there be a first name basis between students and teachers. Or between parents and teachers either.

lazygal

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Only the elusive ET schools though!

And Gael scoils as someone else pointed out. My children call their Montessori teacher by her first name. Zero issues with discipline.

inocybe

lazygal wrote: »

All of which many schools achieve without insisting on Mr and Ms being used.

And if you're Miss and also a mother then you have no place teaching children.

tehbaggins

frostyjacks wrote: »

I think it's weird for children to call their teachers and parents by their first names. Doesn't show a lot of respect.

As for morals and ethics, I'm sure children can learn about them in non-religious schools, but they just don't carry the same weight. If you don't bring children up with a faith, why would you expect them to stick to a moral code? Maybe that's why those schools have issues with discipline as mentioned earlier.

What the hell has faith got to do with a moral code?

Again examples from Norway. We called our teachers and even the principal by their first names, we wasn't taught morality at all, nevermind from a religious viewpoint and no one wore a uniform to school ever. And yet we all turned out to be perfectly rational, moral and respectful in adult life. Same thing happening in Sweden and Denmark, potentially in Finland and Iceland as well, but I don't know the latter two as far as primary schools go.

The flipside of the morality coming direct from faith or religion-argument is that you're implying that you'd be a feral beast with no regards for anyone but yourself if you weren't "held back" by your faith and your religion. I doubt that's the case, so how can you hold to your side of the argument so vehemently?

tehbaggins

inocybe wrote: »

And if you're Miss and also a mother then you have no place teaching children.

Beg your pardon?

mordeith

harr wrote: »

Hi
Not looking to start a religious debate,

Epic FAIL

zeffabelli

tehbaggins wrote: »

What the hell has faith got to do with a moral code?

Again examples from Norway. We called our teachers and even the principal by their first names, we wasn't taught morality at all, nevermind from a religious viewpoint and no one wore a uniform to school ever. And yet we all turned out to be perfectly rational, moral and respectful in adult life. Same thing happening in Sweden and Denmark, potentially in Finland and Iceland as well, but I don't know the latter two as far as primary schools go.

The flipside of the morality coming direct from faith or religion-argument is that you're implying that you'd be a feral beast with no regards for anyone but yourself if you weren't "held back" by your faith and your religion. I doubt that's the case, so how can you hold to your side of the argument so vehemently?

This argument is the same argument people use for an autobahn in Ireland.

It works with Germans, would be a disaster with Irish drivers.

One eyed Jack

lazygal wrote: »

And Gael scoils as someone else pointed out. My children call their Montessori teacher by her first name. Zero issues with discipline.

It's a Montessori school, they're not exactly going to be organising fights on Facebook for another few years yet :pac:

Seriously though, if that's how their teacher prefers to be addressed, then that's her personal preference is all.

I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say I don't particularly care for the informal policy in ET schools, and that did have an influence on whether to send him to the ET school, as well as their lack of a credible long-term track record.

inocybe wrote: »

And if you're Miss and also a mother then you have no place teaching children.

I'm not sure how you make that out?

inocybe

tehbaggins wrote: »

Beg your pardon?

Left out question mark. Single parents aren't going to be the candidates of choice for teaching in a catholic school

byhookorbycrook

purplecow1977 wrote: »

It must be personal preference - I rather they call me Ms. X

Until you have a junior infant trying to say Iníon Ni Leathlobhair or Bean Ui Mhaoldomhnaigh.

byhookorbycrook

inocybe wrote: »

Left out question mark. Single parents aren't going to be the candidates of choice for teaching in a catholic school

Untrue.

One eyed Jack

inocybe wrote: »

Left out question mark. Single parents aren't going to be the candidates of choice for teaching in a catholic school

I feel another anecdote coming on... :pac:

Seriously though, being an unmarried mother isn't strictly an impediment to being considered as a candidate for a teaching position in a Catholic ethos school. There are guidelines in place for interviews, but as was seen in a recent case, some interviewers may over-step their boundaries in delving into candidates private lives -

Schools have rights on ethos, says priest

dogcat

It'd be great if we followed the Fennoscandian model of informality in schools, I find it rather weird to address people by a full title or else be punished in many schools for it.

eviltwin

One eyed Jack wrote: »

And just like you don't need religion to teach a child morals and values and ethics and so on, you don't need an ET school to encourage individuality, independence, nor to give children a voice.

I don't like the idea of children calling me by my first name, and I'm one of those parents who prefers to have all the children wearing their uniforms as they represent the school (saves a fortune too on buying clothes throughout the year).

If that's a crap attitude to children, then I'll take that judgement with a pinch of salt tbh, I certainly don't think I have a crap attitude to children, and I don't think at all that the vast majority of people in this country have a crap attitude to children's welfare. They just have a different perspective to yours is all on what is best for their own children.

That's where we differ. I don't have any desire to be called Ms X by anyone, I find it stuffy. It doesn't matter to me if your 5 or 50 call me by my first name. I still find Ireland pretty bad in attitudes to children, they are seen as pains and a nuisance by a lot of people. I don't find Ireland particularly family friendly.

dogcat

eviltwin wrote: »

That's where we differ. I don't have any desire to be called Ms X by anyone, I find it stuffy. It doesn't matter to me if your 5 or 50 call me by my first name. I still find Ireland pretty bad in attitudes to children, they are seen as pains and a nuisance by a lot of people. I don't find Ireland particularly family friendly.

This, most adults here treat children like they're a nuisance who knows literally nothing which in most cases aren't true.