No rules broken yet received warning

MrWalsh

Hi,
Ill keep this short.

On a thread about a poster experiencing problems with anti social behaviour I suggested that they speak to their local Sinn Fein counciller. Sinn Fein are well known with helping local communities at grass roots levels, assisting in anti social behaviour problems in conjunction with the community Guard and taking an interest in this issues in many areas.

My post was removed and I was told the following:

"You have been warned for posting about a forbidden topic.

There are some things we don't allow discussion about on Boards.ie.

Please see the Boards.ie FAQ for more details.

The_Conductor

Moderator Note

Suggesting the OP 'Talk to their local SF Councillor' is a tacit suggestion of vigilantism- and is wholly unacceptable in this forum. Cop on.

Your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWalsh View Post
Talk to the local Sinn Fein counciller and ask them to help out."

I checked the FAQ linked and cannot see anything on it about suggesting speaking to a politician being a forbidden topic.

I also note on a search that the same suggestion has been made under similiar circumstances several times.

I pm'd the moderator and was told that the Charter is currently being modified to explicitly state that any suggestions of vigilantism, illegal activity etc are forbidden.

Im sorry, but I fail to see how telling a user to engage with a local politician attached to a legitimate organisation is in any way akin to advocating illegal activity and how my post broke any rules.

Can anyone explain to me why contacting Sinn Fein is considered an illegal activity or an action that leads to illegal activity?

Can anyone explain how a user is supposed to abide by a Charter that is not yet in place?

I can forward on the pm's, I was polite (unlike the moderator who told me to "cop on" in the first message - seriously, is that how moderators are supposed to interact with users?)

Edited to add - Id like the yellow card removed please as I did not break any rules.

Taltos

Hi MrWalsh

I'll look into this for you. As it's the weekend it might take some time so bear with us.
Please send on the PMs you've exchanged with the mod discussing the warning.

Thanks.

MrWalsh

Thanks Taltos, messages forwarded.

Taltos

Got it cheers.

Taltos

OK
first off can you just let me know why your first suggestion was to go talk to "local Sinn Fein counciller and ask them to help out"?

Why not the gardai?

MrWalsh

From experience complaining to Guards when no crime has actually occurred isn't very useful. Guards tend to take "there's kids throwing stuff at my windows but they aren't there right now" with a "yes, thanks for letting us know". But they haven't got the resources to do much. Plus their hands are completely tied when it's kids under 18. We get a lot of it locally, if I'd a quid for every time the a Guards tell you there isn't really anything they can do.

Whereas the local councillors often have programs set up or are working in conjunction with local clubs, the council obviously, are aware of local groups who can help out.

Taltos

Which appears reasonable except you don't know the resourcing in the local of the OP, they also had asked should they approach the gardai first.
Why not start out with that?

Why an immediate escalation to local councillors? I would imagine they are equally overworked and while they are there to help the community their role is not to replace the duties of other groups.
Point of escalation - fine.
Point of complaint - I'm not getting it MrWalsh, you're going to have to help me on that.

MrWalsh

Taltos wrote: »

Which appears reasonable except you don't know the resourcing in the local of the OP, they also had asked should they approach the gardai first.
Why not start out with that?

Why an immediate escalation to local councillors? I would imagine they are equally overworked and while they are there to help the community their role is not to replace the duties of other groups.
Point of escalation - fine.
Point of complaint - I'm not getting it MrWalsh, you're going to have to help me on that.

I don't really understand what you are asking me for? Are you saying that because I didn't make a different suggestion that I have broken the rules? If you wish to suggest to the OP to go to the a Guards you are free to do so, but it wouldn't be what I would suggest. I'm a different person with different experiences so I made a suggestion that I felt would help. You are free to disagree with my suggestion. I didn't suggest anything illegal or forbidden.

I made a legitimate suggestion, talk to a local councillor, specifically SF because they take an interest in anti social behaviour issues and are more active in certain areas (OP said the area had become more run down). That's it. Why I didn't suggest this that or the other is irrelevant really, the point is that I made a suggestion and I don't see anything in the charter that forbids talking about what I suggested or would warrant a warning.

So what's the issue please? What exactly did I do wrong? Can you show me what rule I broke because I can't see it?

Taltos

And as I said I can kind of see why you gave the advice you did.
I'm just not sure why an immediate jump to Sinn Fein as opposed to Gardai for anti social behaviour, surely the first port of call or Social Services to take the delinquent in hand, there's clearly a child at risk there.

As to what specific rule. Come on OP, Boards and the forums don't spell out every single thing, posters are expected to use common sense at all times.

I am just trying to get a sense of why you suggested Sinn Fein specifically, bearing in mind all of the bad press they received a number of years ago, something they themselves have come out strongly against (anti-vigilantism). Had you just said a local counselor we both know this thread wouldn't be here right now. You might think why you didn't suggest anything else is irrelevant but seeing how other threads were hijacked by posters who took the Sinn Fein suggestion to be an open door to suggest other more violent behaviour I think you might start to see why the Mod took the action they did in trying to nip further off topic and flaming posts from blackening the name of any political party and ultimately resulting in the OPs question not getting the proper attention it deserved. Like it or not due to the history of that organisation it is not unreasonable to expect posters with less imagination or control to take the SF suggestion and run with it as they have elsewhere here.

With that background do you see where the mod was coming from in this instance?
Especially in light of the other thread you supplied them in your PM exchange.

Note: I am not declaring which way I'm going to rule on the card here yet but I do need to get a sense of your intentions behind your post MrWalsh, and just as importantly I need to see if you can see why the action was taken, not asking you to agree with it at all. Those two things are at the nub of my call here and I need your help in me seeing both.

MrWalsh

My intention? I suggested what I'd do myself under the same circumstances. You'll note I made 2 other suggestions on that thread also. If we all had the same ideas there would be no point in this website at all.

Background of the mod? Given the tone and expression they used to me in the pm telling me to "cop on", I wouldn't be able to make an educated guess at the mindset of someone who thinks it's ok to speak to posters that way. Clearly they also conflate the suggestion of speaking to a politician with that of advocating illegal activity but I am not responsible for the mental leaps of others.

Actually I didn't even read the full post I linked in the pm exchange, just searched and found same suggestion (more examples than I gave but that was the most recent one), noted they hadn't been given a yellow card and questioned the unequal treatment.

Either I broke the rules or I didn't. I can't see how I did and this cross examination seems more focused on why I didn't make a specific different suggestion (go to the Guards) rather than illuminate me as to what is wrong with what I did post and how I broke the rules.

I notice loads of posts including those of mods have been removed from that thread so I have no idea what's going on with it, I can't see behind the scenes.

But I didn't do anything wrong and I'd like the card reversed.

Taltos

Thanks MrWalsh.

Your last reply helped me, but not in the way I was hoping or expecting.
As to the "cop on" - I use it all the time. I have no issue with anyone else using it with me and it is not an insult. If you are genuinely insulted by being told to cop on then while I must apologise for that I would suggest not taking such a comment too much to heart.

I had been leaning to reversing this warning, but as above I really needed to see where you were coming from and if you could understand why the mod took the action they did, I didn't ask you to agree with it. However it's clear either you don't want to or refuse to. This coupled with your tone in the last post though and claiming you were being cross-examined has resulted in me changing my mind on the appropriate action to take here.
I was not cross examining you, I was attempting to be conciliatory but I needed to explore the reasons behind your post, basically were you attempting to put the thread off topic or was this just a naive suggesting with no understanding of the background or history in Ireland of such a suggestion. Rightly or wrongly there is that historical link and all I can say is I applaud the party for making clear statements about the illegalities for such activities, but that does not get us away from some posters using such references as an excuse to spiral threads down the virtual plug hole.

So where are we?
Well, in light of your inability to see how your post could have resulted in the thread going off topic I am surprising myself here by supporting the Warning.
Let me remind you a yellow is just a virtual slap on the wrist, a wake up call if you will. Please heed it and think carefully on how you post.

If you still wish to challenge the Warning you may request an Admin review, that is totally your perogative.

MrWalsh

Alright.

You may close my account at your earliest convenience please.