The housing crisis and where we go from here

rawn

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

while I agree in principle, I heard the guy from threshold making the point that a single mother on welfare moving with her kids away from her family support meant that it would be almost impossible to get a job because childcare costs mean it's unlikely in most cases to make it practical.

This is a very good point. I have a friend who is a single, unemployed mother with a 6 year old. She has been trying to get back into work since he started school but can't find a job that would allow her to work during his school hours as everything at her unskilled level is shift work, and her parents have both passed so hasn't anyone to look after him regularly. No chance of affording childcare. She moved from a 2 bed apartment to a 3 bed semi just after he was born, on RA, don't ask me why that was deemed necessary by the dole :P childcare costs may be an overlooked part of the problem as to why people won't move away from their families area to get a council house.

athtrasna

It depends on whether they are working or want to work. If someone is planning to stay on welfare then the family support issue is moot when it comes to housing needs.

handlemaster

rawn wrote: »

This is a very good point. I have a friend who is a single, unemployed mother with a 6 year old. She has been trying to get back into work since he started school but can't find a job that would allow her to work during his school hours as everything at her unskilled level is shift work, and her parents have both passed so hasn't anyone to look after him regularly. No chance of affording childcare. She moved from a 2 bed apartment to a 3 bed semi just after he was born, on RA, don't ask me why that was deemed necessary by the dole :P childcare costs may be an overlooked part of the problem as to why people won't move away from their families area to get a council house.

Wheres Daddy ?

rawn

They broke up when the kid was 3, he is on a jobsbridge scheme AFAIK and sees the kid regularly, but doesn't contribute much money and also couldn't reliably babysit in regards to if she was working shifts. She'd be worse off of she was told to move to a council house in roscommon anyways, the daddy wouldn't allow it anyways... but maybe the offer of aid with childcare costs to single mothers for the first year of a job if they are unable to find work inside the childs school hours if they are willing to move outside dublin where supply of council houses/RA landlords is higher? Not a compete solution to the problem obviously. ..

handlemaster

rawn wrote: »

They broke up when the kid was 3, he is on a jobsbridge scheme AFAIK and sees the kid regularly, but doesn't contribute much money and also couldn't reliably babysit in regards to if she was working shifts. She'd be worse off of she was told to move to a council house in roscommon anyways, the daddy wouldn't allow it anyways... but maybe the offer of aid with childcare costs to single mothers for the first year of a job if they are unable to find work inside the childs school hours if they are willing to move outside dublin where supply of council houses/RA landlords is higher? Not a compete solution to the problem obviously. ..

sounds like Daddy isnt up to much and is happy for the tax payer to foot the bill for housing his kid. Job bridge scheme is a start

rawn

handlemaster wrote: »

sounds like Daddy isnt up to much and is happy for the tax payer to foot the bill for housing his kid. Job bridge scheme is a start

True, but not really the point! Families that are not on RA or housing lists also have crappy fathers/mothers

This thread has opened my eyes a little about the whole council house thing, I never gave it much thought. My parents (6 kids at the time) got a 3-bed council house over 20 years ago. They were unemployed/in and out of jobs for a long time but both have been working full-time in decent jobs for nearly 15 years. The council sends them a form for a means test every year and adjusts the rent accordingly. Only my 19 y/o sister and my dad live in the house now, he is still means tested but they have never once in the 20+ years have they been asked/told that they could afford to rent privately or that that should move to a smaller place. The house is in Blanchardstown. I never thought about it much but it seems highly unfair to other people looking for houses... I think my dads rent is only around €60 pw, when my mam was there I think it was €80/90. Rent on similar properties is over €1200pm!

handlemaster

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/housing-crisis-ireland-needs-five-to-10-new-ballymuns-as-soon-as-possible-1.2321041


Interesting piece. .. anyone for a new ballymun

OfflerCrocGod

Just this morning I was jogging past empty apartments at the Southgate shopping centre near Drogheda. There are more empty apartments in the Grangerath estate near by. How are these not on the market being rented?

handlemaster

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

Just this morning I was jogging past empty apartments at the Southgate shopping centre near Drogheda. There are more empty apartments in the Grangerath estate near by. How are these not on the market being rented?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/dublin-homeless-may-be-housed-in-rural-areas-1.2322385

plans are afoot

Gatling

handlemaster wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/dublin-homeless-may-be-housed-in-rural-areas-1.2322385

plans are afoot

“Choice-based lettings” is a scheme used by local authorities to advertise council houses that are difficult to let, to households on the housing waiting list.

Interested households can then express an interest in a dwelling. It is seen as a way for households to “jump” the waiting list if they are willing to take a less desirable dwelling.

Now I'm on the choice based letting system going on 8 years in sdcc and it's next to useless for best part of the last 2 years there's been next to no properties,or when we apply were told 2 bed apartments are not suitable for 2 adults and 2 kids .
One thing that keep coming up is 2 bed properties only suitable for 1 adult and one small child .
And as quoted above its used to advertise properties that are difficult to let ,


I've no issues with relocating but I get the feeling the majority homeless want there 3 bed semi with front and rear gardens in Dublin no where else

riclad

I know a single mother ,
worked 4 days a week,
for years, her mother took care of the child ,
when she worked .
Some apartments are owned by nama
they intend to sell them.
they have no wish to rent them out .
is there thousands of jobs in clare,cavan ,kerry suitable for single mothers .
Some women ,get pregnant have 1 child ,is not planned .
i know a woman moved 100 miles away down the country from here ex boyfriend ,the father , who lives in dublin.
The council rent is based on the income of the people who live in the house and theres a max rent they charge .
Anyway at this point 90 per cent of council houses have been sold
to the tenant .
IF Theres 2 people paying rent they wont ask them to move out ,
the council dont have many 2 bed units to offer them .
The solution is simply build more houses ,
stop right to buy .
The council need 1000,s of houses for people on low incomes .
Make a rule any new houses built cant be sold to anyone
You can pay rent based on your income .

iguana

rawn wrote: »

True, but not really the point! Families that are not on RA or housing lists also have crappy fathers/mothers

This thread has opened my eyes a little about the whole council house thing, I never gave it much thought. My parents (6 kids at the time) got a 3-bed council house over 20 years ago. They were unemployed/in and out of jobs for a long time but both have been working full-time in decent jobs for nearly 15 years. The council sends them a form for a means test every year and adjusts the rent accordingly. Only my 19 y/o sister and my dad live in the house now, he is still means tested but they have never once in the 20+ years have they been asked/told that they could afford to rent privately or that that should move to a smaller place. The house is in Blanchardstown. I never thought about it much but it seems highly unfair to other people looking for houses... I think my dads rent is only around €60 pw, when my mam was there I think it was €80/90. Rent on similar properties is over €1200pm!

I've long thought that council houses should be seen as a temporary measure for able bodied people to help them get on their feet when they are starting out. They should only be offered long term to people that have disabilities or health issues that prevent them working and saving. When I was 3 my parents got a council house. My Dad had always worked full-time but as a bin lorry driver in the 80s he didn't have the best wages. For 4 years they lived frugally and saved up every spare penny. And once they had enough for a deposit they bought an old wreck of a house in the private area my Mum was from. It took a lot of sacrifice but the lower rent allowed them the opportunity save that they wouldn't have had renting privately. And they went from a modern well built house, into an old one that had been allowed fall into serious disrepair and required years and years of work, bit by bit as they could afford it. Along with even more financial sacrifices as the house was a money pit for the first few years and they had the stress of a mortgage that was an awful lot more than their rent had been.

It's so hard for people to pay private rents, especially at current rates, and to save a 20% deposit. If council properties were utilised to give people that chance to save and then let the apartment/house move on to the next person/couple/family it would make a huge difference to a lot of people. I'd even suggest incentivising people to save up and move on by offering a grant to anyone who moves to private housing within 10 years. €5000 if they leave in the first 5 years and it drops by €1000 each year thereafter. That might seem expensive but I think it would make sense to remove people from long-term state dependency.

gaius c

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

Just this morning I was jogging past empty apartments at the Southgate shopping centre near Drogheda. There are more empty apartments in the Grangerath estate near by. How are these not on the market being rented?

OPEC NAMA want to keep the price of oil accommodation high.

riclad

Nama are not interesting in renting apartments,
they will sell some units to the council ,
or they,ll sell 100,s of units to big companys .
if theres some empty apartments they don,t care about it .
Theres a problem the cost of building in ireland is high,
alot of bricklayers ,building workers have emigrated .
The short term solution is give tax credits to landlords who rent to
familys ,women with children.
or anyone on rent allowance .
This crisis will effect our economy ,
our rents are rising ,
outside investors will say not locate here .
its too expensive ,
there is not a reasonable housing system in place for our workers .
We have to compete with our countrys with a long term well planned housing policy .

gaius c

riclad wrote: »

Nama are not interesting in renting apartments,
they will sell some units to the council ,
or they,ll sell 100,s of units to big companys .
if theres some empty apartments they don,t care about it .
Theres a problem the cost of building in ireland is high,
alot of bricklayers ,building workers have emigrated .
The short term solution is give tax credits to landlords who rent to
familys ,women with children.
or anyone on rent allowance .
This crisis will effect our economy ,
our rents are rising ,
outside investors will say not locate here .
its too expensive ,
there is not a reasonable housing system in place for our workers .
We have to compete with our countrys with a long term well planned housing policy .

Your formatting of posts is extremely odd.

handlemaster

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/major-new-plan-to-target-spiralling-rents-to-be-unveiled-by-government-31468502.html

Landlord currently offering favorable rates would be advised to rise now or be stuck with long term issues in raising the rent . No mention of dealing with tenants who dont pay

usernamegoes

"extending the notice period for introducing a rent hike"

This makes sense to me. I always found it unfair that if your notice period to leave a property is greater than the notice period for a rent increase, you could be forced to pay a rent you never agreed to.

newacc2015

Good luck finding three comparable properties. Take Dublin 9 on daft.ie. There is a fair amount of 4 bed houses in Dublin 9. Yet there is 6 available houses on daft.ie in for a 4 bed in Dublin 9. Two are clearly marketed towards short term lets and other 4 are acceptable, but not the typical 4 bed luxury home you can find in Dublin 9 eg Iona, Lindsay road. Even within postcodes there is much difference eg Sheriff Street versus IFSC, Ballsbridge versus Ringsend/Irishtown.

I imagine its the typical half-arsed, poorly enforced property law. I would expect zero enforcement like BER certs for rental properties(very few private landlords do them, as they are a pretty poor indicator of energy usage eg a few CFLs or smaller main room improve the rating

handlemaster

What gets me is theres not much for the landlord cant they see with high tax and big costs getting problem tenants out they need to give more. Not to mention non payment risk

lisasimpson

I know there would be a lot of issues with this but some sort of a vacant property tax for large urban areas.

Take Cork for example, I passed through barrack street area recently its between UCC and the city for anyone not familiar within walking distance of both. the amount of houses that are just boarded up and left to ruins. yes they are old and there could be issues trying to trace the owners. Shandon street on the north side loads of ruin down boarded up buildings. yes some may need to be knocked but some sort of incentives to target these buildings to come onto the rental market should be introduced in the next budget

riclad

This was discussed on newstalk today .
Some one said we will need someone to step up,we need
true leadership to build 20- 30k homes for low income tenants .
We need high density housing in our citys .
IN 2014 maybe half the funds for social housing were not used .
There also needs to be new laws re how management companys work in
apartments .
Whole new neighbourhoods would need to be built .
Since 1960 300k units were built by local councils in ireland .
There has to be political will to make this happen .

riclad

riclad wrote: »

This was discussed on newstalk today .
Some one said we will need someone to step up,we need
true leadership to build 20- 30k homes for low income tenants .

In other words we need the tax payer (i.e me and other people who are working) to fund the building of 20k homes for people to live in for free while also funding our own accommodation? Feck that.

CatFromHue

building 20-30k homes will take years, it might be what is needed but it's a very long term solution.

I read that article yesterday and I still see people who don't fully understand the problem.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/activists-criticise-councils-prefabricated-housing-plans-349657.html

Putting families in the prefabs to me is far better than having them on the street or hotels, assuming the prefabs are all right. The long term homeless who have drink or drugs or mental health problems is a different story and I've no idea how to help them.

handlemaster

The guardian have a good piece on the UK rental market.. are we going this way also ?



http://www.theguardian.com/global/2015/aug/22/renters-fight-rogue-landlords-rhiannon-lucy-cosslett?CMP=fb_gu

riclad

No one lives for free ,you get social housing ,rent goes up based on your
income .
IF you get a job you pay max rent .
yes it would take 4 years to build 20k units,
but we need a plan now ,
some one has to decide we will build x amount of units per year .
it cant be left to the private sector.
make a 10 year plan .
OR else we will be paying 1000,s for people to live in hotels .
Hotels are not designed for women and children to live there .
WE are now paying millions to hotels .
Present system is old people get 1 bed unit,
only women with 2 or more kids get a council house.
Change the system,
no one has a right to buy a council house,
keep council housing for low income tenants .
People on drugs, or with mental problems are in the minority ,
since the bedsits are gone people on disability allowance are finding it hard
to get a flat .
WE can,t base our housing policy on the fact that some people use drugs .or some people have a drinking problem .
Theres an article in the sunday times version about this .
It,s says people should share housing etc , share bathrooms .
The law now is every flat must have its own ensuite
Unless you are living in a house with the landlord .

handlemaster

riclad wrote: »

No one lives for free ,you get social housing ,rent goes up based on your
income .
IF you get a job you pay max rent .
yes it would take 4 years to build 20k units,
but we need a plan now ,
some one has to decide we will build x amount of units per year .
it cant be left to the private sector.
make a 10 year plan .
OR else we will be paying 1000,s for people to live in hotels .
Hotels are not designed for women and children to live there .
WE are now paying millions to hotels .
Present system is old people get 1 bed unit,
only women with 2 or more kids get a council house.
Change the system,
no one has a right to buy a council house,
keep council housing for low income tenants .
People on drugs, or with mental problems are in the minority ,
since the bedsits are gone people on disability allowance are finding it hard
to get a flat .
WE can,t base our housing policy on the fact that some people use drugs .or some people have a drinking problem .
Theres an article in the sunday times version about this .
It,s says people should share housing etc , share bathrooms .
The law now is every flat must have its own ensuite
Unless you are living in a house with the landlord .

The indo has it today that the government are paying 32k à year for each homeless person... Still all they do in their new leaked plans is give more rights to tenants. This will make landlords even more likely to say no to welfare tenants. Its already very difficult to get a problem tenant out why take the risk. More tax incentives to landlords who house welfare tenants is whats needed , especially thoses with kids. Its already costing millions to house families who cant find a home to rent.

riclad

IT we would cost the government little to give landlords a tax allowance for taking on rent allowance tenants .
AS they are spending millions on paying hotels for short term accomodation .Maybe bring in a law ,you can only raise the rent once every 12 months,
and you must give 3 months notice re any change in the rent .
i,M not sure is there any point in raising rent allowance rates as it may just result in higher rents for workers on low income .

jay0109

riclad wrote: »

No one lives for free ,you get social housing ,rent goes up based on your
income .
IF you get a job you pay max rent .

And max rent is???? The market rent or a local authority slected ceiling:rolleyes:

Mrs OBumble

jay0109 wrote: »

And max rent is???? The market rent or a local authority slected ceiling:rolleyes:

Different for each local authority.

But in some cases (small, far-away towns with depressed markets) the calculated rent that some social-housing tenants pay is actually greater than market rent in the area.

'Tis a great dis-incentive to bettering your circumstances.

handlemaster

riclad wrote: »

IT we would cost the government little to give landlords a tax allowance for taking on rent allowance tenants .
AS they are spending millions on paying hotels for short term accomodation .Maybe bring in a law ,you can only raise the rent once every 12 months,
and you must give 3 months notice re any change in the rent .
i,M not sure is there any point in raising rent allowance rates as it may just result in higher rents for workers on low income .

it is already so that rent can be raise only once every 12 months.
The three months notice is what has been proposed by the government or what has been leaked to be what is their proposal