Are humans trapped in a system?

ComfortKid

Thats illegal. He would need planning permission.

It is next to impossible to live "off the grid"

NachoBusiness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouANEo2w0Pg

Wilberto

That sounds an awful lot like freeman talk to me! :pac:

blatantrereg

European Democracies allow quite a lot of freedom. Non-democratic countries generally cannot compare.

You could say that the absence of government would free you from this evil system. However the absence of an established government generally results in worse conditions than all but the most oppressive regimes.

So you want the security, peace and ownership of property that having an established government enables you to have... And you want increased border controls. But you also wish to remove yourself entirely from the "evil system" and not contribute anything to it. Comes down to wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

kneemos

Dry Rain wrote: »

This is exactly my problem with this world. Greed.

This is the current, greed filled world:
Builder: Hey, I need X amount of Y to build this road.
Miner guy (or something): Ok, that will be €XXXX.XX

This is what the world should be like:
Builder: Hey, I want to build a road for the community. I need X amount of Y.
Miner guy: Ok, where do you want the materials delivered?

Certain people take natural resources and only share it for **** called money.

If you want someone to deliver the materials you'll need to give them an incentive of some sort.
If you want to barter it's still a monetary system of sorts.

Eugene Norman

Very confused post OP.

The answer is yes, we are trapped in the money system. And no we can't do anything about it until the machines can do everything and there is no need for rationing of resources. Even then the amount of land is limited. You say you want to have some land? Why you and not somebody else?

Money is a rationing system. It would be great if we couldn't ration but we have to. It would be great if money were distributed more evenly.

Dry Rain

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

What does the miner get for his effort? A warm fuzzy feeling? Or something he can use to feed his family and keep the heat on?

He took resources from the earth. He gave them to someone else.

To answer your question, he goes to a farmer and asks for food. Or maybe he is also a farmer? Or maybe he hunts a cow or chicken, like nature intended.

diomed

Eugene Norman wrote: »

It would be great if money were distributed more evenly.

It would be great if we could get it while sitting on our ar5es.

looksee

OP, you have a computer, you have access to electricity and the internet. You slept somewhere last night, you ate food today, you have a roof over your head presumably, clothes, access to medical care. How do you think all these things are provided? What alternative do you suggest?

One eyed Jack

Dry Rain wrote: »

He took resources from the earth. He gave them to someone else.

To answer your question, he goes to a farmer and asks for food. Or maybe he is also a farmer? Or maybe he hunts a cow or chicken, like nature intended.

Yeah, that worked out really well for Cecil the lion, look at all the freedom he had, until he didn't.

Dry Rain

looksee wrote: »

OP, you have a computer, you have access to electricity and the internet. You slept somewhere last night, you ate food today, you have a roof over your head presumably, clothes, access to medical care. How do you think all these things are provided? What alternative do you suggest?

My alternative is commonwealth.

Share the wealth.

Sharing is caring.

Commonwealth.

All of that stuff is possible without money. We should all generate our own electricity. Or the "government" should ensure equality and make sure that everyone has unrestricted access to it and other resources. The government should be run by generous people and not greedy ****s. Look at government paychecks.

The_Valeyard

Dry Rain wrote: »

My alternative is commonwealth.

Share the wealth.

Sharing is caring.

Commonwealth.

All of that stuff is possible without money. We should all generate our own electricity. Or the "government" should ensure equality and make sure that everyone has unrestricted access to it and other resources. The government should be run by generous people and not greedy ****s. Look at government paychecks.

So.....communism??

ceadaoin.

Dry Rain wrote: »

He took resources from the earth. He gave them to someone else.

To answer your question, he goes to a farmer and asks for food. Or maybe he is also a farmer? Or maybe he hunts a cow or chicken, like nature intended.

He spends his time mining, when will he be able to hunt or farm?

donegaLroad

part of the reason the system is there OP, is because of this.

https://gailtheactuary.files.wordpre...20-to-2010.png


The world's population has grown from 1.5 billion in 1900, to 7 billion in 2015.

It has more than quadrupled in 100 years.

As it stands, if the developing world were to live as we do in the first world, we would need 7 times Earths present resources, which of course is impossible.

Therefore a system has been implemented which ensures that the majority of the world's population will never rise above its present meager standard of living.

The Function of Poverty

Dry Rain

donegaLroad wrote: »

part of the reason the system is there OP, is because of this.


The world's population has grown from 1.5 billion in 1900, to 7 billion in 2015.

It has more than quadrupled in 100 years.

As it stands, if the developing world were to live as we do in the first world, we would need 7 times Earths present resources, which of course is impossible.

Therefore a system has been implemented which ensures that the majority of the world's population will never rise above its present meager standard of living.

Well maybe people should have spent more time developing condoms and not developing dirty videos and putting them on the internet.

NotCominBack

donegaLroad wrote: »

Therefore a system has been implemented which ensures that the majority of the world's population will never rise above its present meager standard of living.

The pill?

Tigger

Dry Rain wrote: »

This is exactly my problem with this world. Greed.

This is the current, greed filled world:
Builder: Hey, I need X amount of Y to build this road.
Miner guy (or something): Ok, that will be €XXXX.XX

This is what the world should be like:
Builder: Hey, I want to build a road for the community. I need X amount of Y.
Miner guy: Ok, where do you want the materials delivered?

Certain people take natural resources and only share it for **** called money.

my personal motto is : i'd love to help everyone but you have to kick and scream for whats yours in life so i help me and mine.
unfortunately social anarchy (which is what you are suggesting) will be defeated by selfishness and so structure exists out of necessity.

super_furry

What you're looking for has already been tried in Russia and Eastern Europe. Human nature and greed has ensured that it didn't work.

The current system we have of a capitalist democracy isn't perfect, but it's better than any other alternative that's been tried.

ComfortKid

Dry Rain wrote:

Well maybe people should have spent more time developing condoms and not developing dirty videos and putting them on the internet.

Dirty videos would actually reduce population growth as it means people aren't having sex, they are masturbating.

Greentopia

Nothing wrong with questioning the status quo and yes it is possible to live without money-google Mark Boyle moneyless man or Heidi Schwermer who's been living on no money whatsoever for 16 years: http://livingwithoutmoney.org
And there are others.

Taxes or contributions to the community in some form (local currency perhaps) are probably necessary though to maintain roads, healthcare, education, public transport, and so on.

I feel similarly in many ways (except for the migrant comment)-I would have the state and the fiat currency system abolished in my ideal world, but we're stuck with it unless we have a workers revolution like Spain had in 1936.

I'd favour a non-market economic and social self managed society.-i.e Left Libertarianism.

See what you think. A better world is possible and this philosophy for me is the best hope for happiness and fulfilment for the most people. It's a beautiful peaceful philosophy that utilises the talents and creativity of human beings while respecting the natural world. You say you're conservative so If you want to be an individual libertarian you can be accommodated within such a system too because one of the principles of left libertarianism is that it's non coercive.

Best of luck.

Dry Rain

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yeah, that worked out really well for Cecil the lion, look at all the freedom he had, until he didn't.

I am not into this whole world of "Narnia" fascination but just think about how many animals "Cecil" (I'm pretty sure his name was Aslan) slaughtered without mercy.

Greentopia

Sir Osis of Liver. wrote: »

I came to this country with one euro in my pocket.



I now own a shopping trolley.

Living the dream.

Dry Rain

ComfortKid wrote: »

they are masturbating.

Sweet Jesus... This is a dirty topic. After this post can we move on?

But what about the actual people in the videos? And how do you know that people don't reproduce (no pun intended) what they saw?

super_furry

So it's communism and eugenics we're after here then? Sound.

gctest50

Dry Rain wrote: »

Well maybe people should have spent more time developing condoms and not developing dirty videos and putting them on the internet.

how "developed" do you want them ?

developed enough so we could say.... have conversations with them and they could post on the internet or something ?

diomed

Greentopia wrote: »

http://livingwithoutmoney.org

Order the DVD €15 :rolleyes:

Dry Rain

Back onto my brief example of the miner. We wouldn't need to rely on miners if some of us became miners ourselves but we can't do that without the government breathing down our necks in some way.

Greentopia

Tigger wrote: »

my personal motto is : i'd love to help everyone but you have to kick and scream for whats yours in life so i help me and mine.
unfortunately social anarchy (which is what you are suggesting) will be defeated by selfishness and so structure exists out of necessity.

Social anarchy has worked in the past-Spain.

"It will never work because of the greed of humans" is a common argument used against left-libertarianism and it's a pernicious lie told to us that we seem to accept readily without really analysing it.

Fortunately and to save me time explaining why I think this is a pernicious lie and other common arguments against this philosophy this guy has done it for me:

Greentopia

super_furry wrote: »

What you're looking for has already been tried in Russia and Eastern Europe. Human nature and greed has ensured that it didn't work.

The current system we have of a capitalist democracy isn't perfect, but it's better than any other alternative that's been tried.

No it's not. See my other posts.

Dry Rain

gctest50 wrote: »

how "developed" do you want them ?

developed enough so we could say.... have conversations with them and they could post on the internet or something ?

I may have used incorrect terminology. I meant producing condoms.