Armageddon for Dublin City Businesses if people can't drive their cars into city

serfboard

As reported by RTÉ and The Irish Times.

RT&#201 wrote:

Dublin car park owners say high-end retail trade could suffer a 24% drop if proposed traffic restrictions are imposed in the core city centre.

A survey for the Irish Parking Association found that nearly 60% of shoppers who drive into Dublin said they would stop doing so if they could not take their car.

Car park owners warned that such shoppers could avoid the city centre if plans go ahead to restrict private cars from the College Green area and parts of the quays.

The car park owners commissioned a Red C survey.

This concentrated on high-end retail customers and it found 41% were car users.

Of these, nearly three out of five said they would not go into the city if they could not use their car.

So, 60% of 40% (i.e. 24%) of high-end customers only would not come into town if they couldn't use their cars. Back to the same oul' bullsh1t - unless customers can drive right to the door of a shop, they won't come in.
Any vested interest who commissions a survey, will only publish the results of the survey if it matches their agenda. I'd also be very interested in seeing the questions.

IMO, the businesses which will be the most affected will be the car park owners themselves, hence their concern.

I'd like to see another survey that asked all shoppers: "If the city centre was easier to walk around, and it was easier to get in and out on reliable public transport, do you think you would be more likely to go in?"

The Irish Times wrote:

Retailers argue that shops selling bulkier items would be particularly hard hit by a car ban, as shoppers won’t carry such items home on public transport.

Maybe, yes, certain businesses will be affected. But business owners are always crowing about how dynamic they are and how they are able to respond to changing consumer patterns. So then, adapt. If the car ban comes in, either offer a delivery service or change your product lines or both.

Larbre34

Theres a thread about this, literally two threads from the top of the forum...

serfboard

Larbre34 wrote: »

Theres a thread about this, literally two threads from the top of the forum...

Yes there is but

a) nobody had posted anything about this survey into it and

b) the other thread is more generic, talking about the merits and de-merits of the proposal. I started this thread to focus more on the (alarmist, IMO) reactions of certain businesses to it.

I've no problem if a moderator wants to merge this into the other thread.

cdebru

It didn't ask how many of the 60% of the 40% actually cross the areas affected, ie how many from the south side park on the north side and vice versa, and wouldn't come to the city unless they could do so, and do so along the current route they use ? I'm guessing it's alot less than 60% of the 40%

cgcsb

A survey for the Irish parking foundation you say?

Turkeys voting for Christmas and all that.

IE 222

Baffling that in this day and age people need cars to go shopping in the city center. Are the big shopping centers in the suburbs not meant for this. Who is going to be buying these big bulky items in a city center. I've yet to see or hear of anyone buying a sofa from arnnots and putting it in there boot.

schemingbohemia

Perhaps the journalists, rather than repeating the press release could have had a look at the NTA survey?

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Infographic_cityCenter_Shopper_digi_1.pdf

Whilst that supports the evidence that car drivers spend more it also shows that they are only 19% of shoppers and make fewer visits to shop in Dublin's city centre.

Spanish Eyes

Shops who are concerned should either introduce a next day delivery service for free....and/or a place where people can leave their shopping bags safely. Like a locker or something like that. Even a small charge of say €1 would be worth it.

Simple. Then pile on to the bus or the DART or the LUAS and get yourself and your bags home. Remember you would have to bring all this stuff back to your CAR anyway.

For me, even with a car (which I very very rarely take into town), it's hauling the bags around that wrecks my poor little arms, and then I can't buy much more!

Look, think outside the box.

As a previous poster said, no one is going to take a sofa home in their car!

City shopping is for clothes, jewellery, shoes, bits and bobs whether high end or not. Most people browse, then eat and drink. Great place Dublin, and it can only get better.

Jawgap

Wasn't the bus gate at College Green supposed to lay waste to the city centre?

Likewise the widening of the central island in O'Connell Street?

The introduction of clamping?

And anyone of a certain age will remember the rows that erupted over

• the pedestrianisation of Grafton Street
• doing away with two way traffic on the quays
• reversing the one way system on the quays

I think they underestimate people's ability to adapt and also that making the city centre a more attractive environment encourages people to come in and linger and move around - instead of park, shop and depart.

Calhoun

As someone who lives outside Dublin, this is the final nail in the coffin, pain in the arse to get into as it is.

Even though the survey is run by the parking places I believe there to be some truth in it

LXFlyer

Calhoun wrote: »

As someone who lives outside Dublin, this is the final nail in the coffin, pain in the arse to get into as it is.

Even though the survey is run by the parking places I believe there to be some truth in it

Are there no public transport options that you can avail of or is it a case of that you don't want to?

devnull

You have to take into account who ran and commissioned the survey.

Most surveys tend to favour the point of view that the commissioner has and it's likely that the questions were phrased, and the respondents were picked in a way to influence that.

LXFlyer

I can understand retailers' fears - any change outside their control that potentially damages their revenue is going to get their backs up.

Retail is unfortunately very much an industry that deals in the here and now rather than looking further ahead well into the future.

But that doesn't mean that they should have a veto over this.

This is where the relevant authorities must put the long term view forward, whilst ensuring that retailers are considered in whatever plans are developed at the next stage.

PolaroidPizza

I agree theres no need for the dependancy of the car in the city so this survey is nothing more than scaremongering.but theres a grain of truth to it.
theres a large proportion of the dublin population who refuse to get public transport.
I believe its down to pricing...its too damn expensive compared to most european cities (london apart)
It would be a lot cheaper if Irish didnt have such an aversion to living in the city centre and needing a semi-d in tye burbs with a garden...but thats an argument for a different thread

zeffabelli

PolaroidPizza wrote: »

I agree theres no need for the dependancy of the car in the city so this survey is nothing more than scaremongering.but theres a grain of truth to it.
theres a large proportion of the dublin population who refuse to get public transport.
I believe its down to pricing...its too damn expensive compared to most european cities (london apart)
It would be a lot cheaper if Irish didnt have such an aversion to living in the city centre and needing a semi-d in tye burbs with a garden...but thats an argument for a different thread

It's way too expensive. An adult with a couple of kids add up if you have to take dart and bus.... And carrying stuff around with.kids too especially if you have a few errands to do...

I avoid the centre as it as and never drive because the cyclists scare the **** out of me.

Most expensive public transport system I've ever used.

cdebru

PolaroidPizza wrote: »

I agree theres no need for the dependancy of the car in the city so this survey is nothing more than scaremongering.but theres a grain of truth to it.
theres a large proportion of the dublin population who refuse to get public transport.
I believe its down to pricing...its too damn expensive compared to most european cities (london apart)
It would be a lot cheaper if Irish didnt have such an aversion to living in the city centre and needing a semi-d in tye burbs with a garden...but thats an argument for a different thread

But it won't stop anyone bringing their car so there is no grain of truth to it, it will stop people driving through college green area, so for how many people coming to shop in the city centre is it essential that they can traverse college green in their car ? Where are they coming from/going to that there is no other way than college green. Worse case some people might be diverted off their normal route, that's about it.

LXFlyer

zeffabelli wrote: »

It's way too expensive. An adult with a couple of kids add up if you have to take dart and bus.... And carrying stuff around with.kids too especially if you have a few errands to do...

I avoid the centre as it as and never drive because the cyclists scare the **** out of me.

Most expensive public transport system I've ever used.

Well then talk to your politicians as they have shifted more of the burden of funding onto customers and away from the state.

As for travelling around - there is a family rambler ticket available on LEAP that allows unlimited travel on Dublin Bus for 2 adults and 4 children for €13.50 for a day? That's hardly bad value?

Calhoun

lxflyer wrote: »

Are there no public transport options that you can avail of or is it a case of that you don't want to?

Difficult to get into from where I am coming from without either multiple public transport or some sort of park and ride outside the city on the luas.

I can just as easily go to on of the big shopping centres dotted around the m50 with secure cheap parking and just as good dining and shopping experience.

zeffabelli

lxflyer wrote: »

Well then talk to your politicians as they have shifted more of the burden of funding onto customers and away from the state.

As for travelling around - there is a family rambler ticket available on LEAP that allows unlimited travel on Dublin Bus for 2 adults and 4 children for €13.50 for a day? That's hardly bad value?

And then the dart is an extra fare?

irishgirl19

Some people like to be able to drive home. Plenty of instances where peoples shopping bags have been stolen on luas etc by junkies and Xmas time

Muahahaha

zeffabelli wrote: »

I avoid the centre as it as and never drive because the cyclists scare the **** out of me.

how do cyclists scare you away from driving in the city centre Seems an extraordinary over reaction to me

Rezident

Unutterably nonsense. Nothing could stop my wife from shopping in town, nothing. I smell agenda.

LXFlyer

zeffabelli wrote: »

And then the dart is an extra fare?

DART would be an extra fare - but there are buses to everywhere the DART goes - so you don't have to pay it!

LXFlyer

Calhoun wrote: »

Difficult to get into from where I am coming from without either multiple public transport or some sort of park and ride outside the city on the luas.

I can just as easily go to on of the big shopping centres dotted around the m50 with secure cheap parking and just as good dining and shopping experience.

Well are none of the park and ride options of any use?

I find it difficult to believe that you can't switch to a bus/LUAS/Rail somewhere?

To be honest that's more of a "I don't want the hassle" option. There are plenty of public transport options available - people just don't want to bother considering them.

Calhoun

lxflyer wrote: »

Well are none of the park and ride options of any use?

I find it difficult to believe that you can't switch to a bus/LUAS/Rail somewhere?

To be honest that's more of a "I don't want the hassle" option. There are plenty of public transport options available - people just don't want to bother considering them.

Exactly you may be pro public transport but a combination of cost and some of the crap I have seen happen over the years means I am not a fan.

Normally I could suffer it if it was a more direct journey but there is not way I will go through multiple types in one day If I don't have to. Especially when I can get door to door with other shopping centres.

I doubt I am alone in the i dont want the hassle group to me it is a very important part of the experience up there with price and safety.

LXFlyer

Calhoun wrote: »

Exactly you may be pro public transport but a combination of cost and some of the crap I have seen happen over the years means I am not a fan.

Normally I could suffer it if it was a more direct journey but there is not way I will go through multiple types in one day If I don't have to. Especially when I can get door to door with other shopping centres.

I doubt I am alone in the i dont want the hassle group to me it is a very important part of the experience up there with price and safety.

Can I ask whereabouts you're travelling from? You're making it sound like a massive ordeal, which frankly is not my experience.

As for being pro-public transport, it's more of a necessity as I don't drive (a decision not made for any preference about using public transport). And I do manage to get out and about!

Calhoun

lxflyer wrote: »

Can I ask whereabouts you're travelling from? You're making it sound like a massive ordeal, which frankly is not my experience.

As for being pro-public transport, it's more of a necessity as I don't drive (a decision not made for any preference about using public transport). And I do manage to get out and about!

You may not, as Im not interested in you mapping out the journey for me to show me how it's not an inconvenience. I have given you my reasons on thread for why I personally won't be going near dublin unless I have to.

Good for you on using the public transport, if I didn't have a choice I would use it but as I do I don't and would rather go to places that afford me the option to travel how I want.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

LXFlyer

Calhoun wrote: »

You may not, as Im not interested in you mapping out the journey for me to show me how it's not an inconvenience. I have given you my reasons on thread for why I personally won't be going near dublin unless I have to.

Good for you on using the public transport, if I didn't have a choice I would use it but as I do I don't and would rather go to places that afford me the option to travel how I want.

And can you not see why that is not a sustainable policy for Dublin City?

This is a case of necessity - the city just cannot sustain facilitating people with that sort of view.

So if (as per the plan) a P & R site were provided near Heuston with access to the LUAS, you still wouldn't consider using that?

I am not having a go at you, I actually do accept the need to allow motorists access near the city, but I think an awful lot of people have ingrained prejudices that just don't hold water.

LXFlyer

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Can you elaborate?

What does it rule out?

What kind of shopping?

Calhoun

lxflyer wrote: »

And can you not see why that is not a sustainable policy for Dublin City?

This is a case of necessity - the city just cannot sustain facilitating people with that sort of view.

So if (as per the plan) a P & R site were provided near Heuston with access to the LUAS, you still wouldn't consider using that?

Pay for parking and then the luas? When I have the option of going elsewhere and getting secure parking ?

I can see why Dublin City Council are doing it but while there are cheaper alternatives that are not in the heart of the city and take less time from me I wouldn't consider it.