Armageddon for Dublin City Businesses if people can't drive their cars into city

Calhoun

lxflyer wrote: »

I am not having a go at you, I actually do accept the need to allow motorists access near the city, but I think an awful lot of people have ingrained prejudices that just don't hold water.

I'm from Bray myself I don't live there now, I don't prejudge I have experienced allot of the crap that puts me off public transport.

As I said I would use it only if I had no other option , the stories you see all the time in the media don't indicate anything has changed.

zeffabelli

lxflyer wrote: »

And can you not see why that is not a sustainable policy for Dublin City?

This is a case of necessity - the city just cannot sustain facilitating people with that sort of view.

So if (as per the plan) a P & R site were provided near Heuston with access to the LUAS, you still wouldn't consider using that?

I am not having a go at you, I actually do accept the need to allow motorists access near the city, but I think an awful lot of people have ingrained prejudices that just don't hold water.

There are people who use cars also because they are transporting sick, elderly and children to the various hospitals around the area for treatments.

Is there more detail in what areas they will close off and what the cascade effect on motorists will do.

LXFlyer

Calhoun wrote: »

Pay for parking and then the luas? When I have the option of going elsewhere and getting secure parking ?

I can see why Dublin City Council are doing it but while there are cheaper alternatives that are not in the heart of the city and take less time from me I wouldn't consider it.

Calhoun wrote: »

I'm from Bray myself I don't live there now, I don't prejudge I have experienced allot of the crap that puts me off public transport.

As I said I would use it only if I had no other option , the stories you see all the time in the media don't indicate anything has changed.

Well that's your choice, but I think it is a rather narrow view. It's also a completely unsustainable view in terms of moving people in and out of the city centre.

I still fail to see how College Green being closed off will stop you driving to the city centre by the way.

What media stories are you referring to?

LXFlyer

zeffabelli wrote: »

There are people who use cars also because they are transporting sick, elderly and children to the various hospitals around the area for treatments.

Is there more detail in what areas they will close off and what the cascade effect on motorists will do.

I really don't see how these proposals will affect any of those people?

Hospitals will still all be accessible.

People will just have to modify their route if they come through the city centre (specifically through College Green), and possibly also along the Quays immediately either side of O'Connell Bridge.

I've attached a map showing the basic form of the plans.


The detailed information is here:
http://www.dublincity.ie/TransportStudy

Calhoun

lxflyer wrote: »

Well that's your choice, but I think it is a rather narrow view. It's also a completely unsustainable view in terms of moving people in and out of the city centre.

What media stories are you referring to?

I don't think so, there are some fundamental flaws with the current public transportation system that discourage people from travelling on it and needs more investment from the goverment.

Stories like people being attacked on the luas ect by drug users or people shooting up ect .

LXFlyer

Calhoun wrote: »

I don't think so, there are some fundamental flaws with the current public transportation system that discourage people from travelling on it and needs more investment from the goverment.

Stories like people being attacked on the luas ect by drug users or people shooting up ect .

There are issues on the LUAS Red Line - I don't dispute that, but on the vast majority of Dublin public transport that sort of thing just does not happen. However at the same time I don't recall reading any stories of people being attacked.

I'm still a bit perplexed as to why you think you can't still drive into the city because of these plans?

There are plenty of car parks around the city centre that won't be impacted by the closure of College Green.

OldMrBrennan83

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LXFlyer

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Oh come off it - it is perfectly possible to use public transport with shopping bags. I've heard some ludicrous claims, but that takes the biscuit.

At least try and come up with rational arguments. Your second sentence is at least more honest but is being incredibly snobbish (to be blunt about it).

Again, though, how are these plans preventing you from driving to the city?

There will still be plenty of accessible car parks.

QuinDixie

Red cow to city centre takes too long, way too many stops, and is too rough. Using public transport to get into the city should not be a chore.

Diane Selwyn

A survey for the Irish Parking Association found that nearly 60% of shoppers who drive into Dublin said they would stop doing so if they could not take their car.

This is nonsense surely if cars are banned from the city then 100% of shoppers who currently drive in will cease to do so.

OldMrBrennan83

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Calhoun

lxflyer wrote: »

There are issues on the LUAS Red Line - I don't dispute that, but on the vast majority of Dublin public transport that sort of thing just does not happen. However at the same time I don't recall reading any stories of people being attacked.

I'm still a bit perplexed as to why you think you can't still drive into the city because of these plans?

There are plenty of car parks around the city centre that won't be impacted by the closure of College Green.

Was there not a story recently of a lady attacked by two people sitting beside the driver on a Luas , funny though I've experienced plenty of antisocial behaviour on Dublin Bus , the dart and Luas coming from the south of the city so your statement is false.

Your not perplexed at all you have a viewpoint that doesn't match mine and are trying to make little of my viewpoint because it doesn't match with yours. The environment for car users in they city is growing more and more hostile, I'd prefer to just stir clear of it altogether.

LXFlyer

Patww79 wrote: »

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I'm sorry but this is just nonsense.

I shop in the city centre and use the bus all the time so please don't tell me that is horrible.

Nor do I see a propensity of tosses/junkies/drunks on any of the buses that I take on a daily basis.

This is NOT about handing roads to the cyclists.

It's about the keeping the city moving and making public transport more reliable and faster.

OldMrBrennan83

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LXFlyer

Calhoun wrote: »

Was there not a story recently of a lady attacked by two people sitting beside the driver on a Luas , funny though I've experienced plenty of antisocial behaviour on Dublin Bus , the dart and Luas coming from the south of the city so your statement is false.

Your not perplexed at all you have a viewpoint that doesn't match mine and are trying to make little of my viewpoint because it doesn't match with yours. The environment for car users in they city is growing more and more hostile, I'd prefer to just stir clear if it altogether.

There was one story (not pleasant I agree), and I would agree that the LUAS red line has issues, but how many journeys are made in Dublin on public transport without any of those problems? The answer is the vast majority.

You clearly have your own view about public transport which I will disagree with as I use it every single day (which clearly you don't).

But you didn't answer my other question - how does closing College Green make it more difficult to drive to a city centre car park?

There are numerous car parking options - all within easy walking access of the city centre.

Icepick

This will affect like 3 short streets but you could think a single car won't be allowed within the canals from some of the reactions.

noelfirl

lxflyer wrote: »

But you didn't answer my other question - how does closing College Green make it more difficult to drive to a city centre car park

*tumbleweed rolls by*

LeinsterDub

Calhoun wrote: »

You may not

Afraid those rogue cyclists will track you down?

IE 222

If the car park and retailers where really that worried about it I'm sure they would have offers you can't refuse to get you in. Its pure scaremongering again from these retailers and co. There probably seeking some deal now from dcc about rents as "compensation".

AngryLips

irishgirl19 wrote: »

Some people like to be able to drive home. Plenty of instances where peoples shopping bags have been stolen on luas etc by junkies and Xmas time

This is just a complete lie

Calhoun

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Afraid those rogue cyclists will track you down?

Na I've nothing against cyclist, just don't want to feed someone with an opposing view.

You a cyclists with a chip on your shoulder ?

Calhoun

lxflyer wrote: »

There was one story (not pleasant I agree), and I would agree that the LUAS red line has issues, but how many journeys are made in Dublin on public transport without any of those problems? The answer is the vast majority.

You clearly have your own view about public transport which I will disagree with as I use it every single day (which clearly you don't).

But you didn't answer my other question - how does closing College Green make it more difficult to drive to a city centre car park?

There are numerous car parking options - all within easy walking access of the city centre.

Great we have differing views on a discussion forum, that's allowed . I am still allowed have an opinion however based on my own experience.

I can only imagine the impact of the road closures will be a worsening of conditions around it, the go to response has been for people to use more public transport. My answer was I would stir clear altogether that's it.

MGWR

serfboard wrote: »

As reported by RTÉ and The Irish Times.


So, 60% of 40% (i.e. 24%) of high-end customers only would not come into town if they couldn't use their cars. Back to the same oul' bullsh1t - unless customers can drive right to the door of a shop, they won't come in.
Any vested interest who commissions a survey, will only publish the results of the survey if it matches their agenda. I'd also be very interested in seeing the questions.

IMO, the businesses which will be the most affected will be the car park owners themselves, hence their concern.

I'd like to see another survey that asked all shoppers: "If the city centre was easier to walk around, and it was easier to get in and out on reliable public transport, do you think you would be more likely to go in?"


Maybe, yes, certain businesses will be affected. But business owners are always crowing about how dynamic they are and how they are able to respond to changing consumer patterns. So then, adapt. If the car ban comes in, either offer a delivery service or change your product lines or both.

No, it doesn't work that way. None of the most successful capital cities around the world are what the left wing describes as "walkable".

Stheno

IE 222 wrote: »

If the car park and retailers where really that worried about it I'm sure they would have offers you can't refuse to get you in. Its pure scaremongering again from these retailers and co. There probably seeking some deal now from dcc about rents as "compensation".

Arnotts were on the radio today in relation to this, they pay Dublin City Council 2 million euro a year in rates!

_Kaiser_

What most people on this thread are missing - and indeed it's a common theme on this forum - is that public transport is always a poorer alternative to the private car.

- It's slow and generally wanders indirectly to its destination which wastes even more time
- It's not cheap
- Parking isn't free at most of the P&R sites as far as I'm aware
- Potential anti-social behaviour, or even just overcrowding and noise/nuisance factors of others
- Bad driving (I've been on plenty of buses in the past that lurch to a halt, bounce over speed ramps too fast, and take corners too quickly)
- Ignorant/unhelpful staff. Thankfully more the exception than the norm but again, who needs that
- Not much use if you have more than a few carrier bags with you. Even parents with buggies struggle most of the time from what I've seen

Why would anyone with access to a car choose to put themselves through that hassle and timewasting when they can go to somewhere like Blanch or Liffey Valley, park for free, do all the shopping they want in one place, and then go for dinner or a movie and home again on the motorway straight after? Unless you're suggesting they sell the car outright, they'll still be paying tax/insurance on it regardless after all.

Public transport is there for those who can't afford a car or who don't have onsite parking if commuting to work, and that's fine.. but for anyone else it's something that will always be avoided if possible.
The only way to change that is to make driving more unattractive than this.. but that's the benefit of a car - it gives you a lot more alternatives and there will be many who take them IMO.

This survey may be somewhat biased, but that doesn't mean there's no truth in there too.

LeinsterDub

Calhoun wrote: »

Na I've nothing against cyclist, just don't want to feed someone with an opposing view.

You a cyclists with a chip on your shoulder ?

Should of quoted zeffabelli instead . Sorry

IE 222

Stheno wrote: »

Arnotts were on the radio today in relation to this, they pay Dublin City Council 2 million euro a year in rates!

Id understand if DDC were digging up Henry street. DCC can't be responsible if arnotts don't get there expected footfall. Next they will be blaming them on the weather. I guarantee you if a luas or underground train was to run down Henry street they would be begging for a stop to be put outside.

IE 222

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

What most people on this thread are missing - and indeed it's a common theme on this forum - is that public transport is always a poorer alternative to the private car.

- It's slow and generally wanders indirectly to its destination which wastes even more time
- It's not cheap
- Parking isn't free at most of the P&R sites as far as I'm aware
- Potential anti-social behaviour, or even just overcrowding and noise/nuisance factors of others
- Bad driving (I've been on plenty of buses in the past that lurch to a halt, bounce over speed ramps too fast, and take corners too quickly)
- Ignorant/unhelpful staff. Thankfully more the exception than the norm but again, who needs that
- Not much use if you have more than a few carrier bags with you. Even parents with buggies struggle most of the time from what I've seen

Why would anyone with access to a car choose to put themselves through that hassle and timewasting when they can go to somewhere like Blanch or Liffey Valley, park for free, do all the shopping they want in one place, and then go for dinner or a movie and home again on the motorway straight after? Unless you're suggesting they sell the car outright, they'll still be paying tax/insurance on it regardless after all.

Public transport is there for those who can't afford a car or who don't have onsite parking if commuting to work, and that's fine.. but for anyone else it's something that will always be avoided if possible.
The only way to change that is to make driving more unattractive than this.. but that's the benefit of a car - it gives you a lot more alternatives and there will be many who take them IMO.

This survey may be somewhat biased, but that doesn't mean there's no truth in there too.

That's the problem there. Public transport is not just for people who don't have parking space or can't afford a car. Its there to crate convenient and suitable travel option for everyone to use.

Unfortunately if people choose not to use it because they want to use there car instead then there ain't much point investing in it. Use it or loose it.

The country went car mad from the 90s on. The biggest mistake was building all these motorways. But think how bad the roads would be if there wasn't any public transport. You could stay in town shopping with car all week cause you wouldn't be able to get out.

Also Dublin buses are not really designed for high end comfort. They are to move vast amounts of people from one point to the next.

_Kaiser_

IE 222 wrote: »

The country went car mad from the 90s on. The biggest mistake was building all these motorways.

The country went car mad because in the Good Times it was decided that commuting from as far as Laois or Dundalk or Mullingar back into the city every day was doable in the pursuit of that semi-D in the country, and people did it because Dublin was where all the jobs were after all (particularly in those tech multinationals).

To be fair, given the way prices surged in Dublin as everyone fought to "get on the ladder" and banks gave away "free" money no questions asked, it's not surprising given the lack of affordable housing that was available inside the city boundaries.

The biggest mistake is that we have collectively learned nothing from the last 8 years and are now repeating the same thing again!

To quote Battlestar Galactica - "all of this has happened before, and it will happen again"

Stheno

IE 222 wrote: »

Its there to crate convenient and suitable travel option for everyone to use.

That's the problem imo with public transport.
There is no public transport option for me commuting from Swords to the City Centre which is quicker than my driving.

So I drive. The difference in cost is negligible