Armageddon for Dublin City Businesses if people can't drive their cars into city

OldMrBrennan83

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dubscottie

AngryLips wrote: »

This is just a complete lie

I have had stuff stolen from me and l know of a few others that have had as well.
You convince yourself that you left it somewhere but slowly realize that some one has robbed you.

The aim for some seems to be to turn Dublin into some bicycle riding, craft beer drinking, artisan elastic band buying mecca.

Fine on the continent, but this is Ireland. A different culture that does not need changing. Tourists don't come here expecting an Irish version of one of the many bland European cities.

And what people forget is that many don't do single journeys in the car.

In this modern world people don't have the time to wait for buses, walk up the road and back etc.. Esp if you have kids.

ezra_pound

dubscottie wrote: »

I have had stuff stolen from me and l know of a few others that have had as well.
You convince yourself that you left it somewhere but slowly realize that some one has robbed you.

The aim for some seems to be to turn Dublin into some bicycle riding, craft beer drinking, artisan elastic band buying mecca.

Fine on the continent, but this is Ireland. A different culture that does not need changing. Tourists don't come here expecting an Irish version of one of the many bland European cities.

And what people forget is that many don't do single journeys in the car.

In this modern world people don't have the time to wait for buses, walk up the road and back etc.. Esp if you have kids.

In this modern world there's a lot of fat kids.

IE 222

Patww79 wrote: »

Mistake building motorways? Why don't we all go back to horses and carts!

Matter of preference really. But you have admit we got a bit carried away with motorways instead of fixing the bigger picture.

kilo6

I have lived in many countries and visited and drove in cities all over the world. I can say that if i never drive into or visit Dublin again it will not worry me.
We have two countries in Ireland now. The pale and the rest of the country. Dublin planning of their roads public transport and even locating the new National childrens hospital should tell you all you need to know about the planning experts. Anyone rem they built a tunnell under dublin harbor that was too low to run some european trucks under. So the stupid politician changed the law outlawing certain trucks. Nobody fired as usual. What a joke .
Out in rural Ireland you cannot drive on some roads without scraping weeds and briars off the side of your car all in the name of conservation. Or is it lack of money. Dont talk to me about these crazy cyclists rigged out like they were a sky cycling team member two and three abreast the roads and yes they do hold up traffic.
Go ahead and close off all the roads they want and please those cyclists. If they want to live in a dirty filthy city like dublin go right ahead. While you are at it cycle down temple bar on a fri or sat night . Hope you survive. Ever notice the trash around your streets . Filthy.
So im off out to pristine prarie grassland where you can drive a four door ford F150 king ranch and not see a cyclist for 300 miles on interstate 90. Bye yall .

IE 222

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The country went car mad because in the Good Times it was decided that commuting from as far as Laois or Dundalk or Mullingar back into the city every day was doable in the pursuit of that semi-D in the country, and people did it because Dublin was where all the jobs were after all (particularly in those tech multinationals).

To be fair, given the way prices surged in Dublin as everyone fought to "get on the ladder" and banks gave away "free" money no questions asked, it's not surprising given the lack of affordable housing that was available inside the city boundaries.

The biggest mistake is that we have collectively learned nothing from the last 8 years and are now repeating the same thing again!

To quote Battlestar Galactica - "all of this has happened before, and it will happen again"

Exactly and all these towns are rail connected but yet no one ever thought to make better use of it. Instead everyone was crammed onto the roads and spent many hours a week sitting on motorways going nowhere.

IE 222

Stheno wrote: »

That's the problem imo with public transport.
There is no public transport option for me commuting from Swords to the City Centre which is quicker than my driving.

So I drive. The difference in cost is negligible

That's a fair point. Its a good enough reason. But to say you wont use it cause you have a few carrier bags with you or the bus bumps of ramps a bit harder is foolish.

Stheno

IE 222 wrote: »

That's a fair point. Its a good enough reason. But to say you wont use it cause you have a few carrier bags with you or the bus bumps of ramps a bit harder is foolish.

Actually if the OH an myself are heading into the city of an evening or weekend, we'd often take the bus, particularly the Swords Express as it's quick and convenient. It doesn't work as a mode of transport to where I work in Dublin 2 though.

Now on the bump off ramps points, I do sometimes (very rarely) take the 41x in the mornings with Dublin bus. The bus stop I use is about three hundred feet from a traffic lights where the bus makes a sharp right hand turn. There are usually about ten people getting on, and before people have made their way upstairs as downstairs is full, the bus is at those lights and turning, I've fallen several times attempting to get up the stairs or to a seat due to this. It's not pleasant.

dubscottie

ezra_pound wrote: »

In this modern world there's a lot of fat kids.

Thats for another thread/forum.

dubscottie

kilo6 wrote: »

Anyone rem they built a tunnell under dublin harbor that was too low to run some european trucks under. So the stupid politician changed the law outlawing certain trucks.

I worked on the tolls on the tunnel when it first opened.. 10-12 trucks a week were over height. 99% were not loaded right or were an oversize load which needed a Garda escort and had to stay in the middle of the bore...

The problem is that while European height trucks CAN go through the tunnel.. The air fans at each end of the tunnel may suck in any loose parts of the trailers. (the fans run like a Boeing 747 engine on idle). And that's why the are banned...

Stheno

dubscottie wrote: »

I worked on the tolls on the tunnel when it first opened.. 10-12 trucks a week were over height. 99% were not loaded right or were an oversize load which needed a Garda escort and had to stay in the middle of the bore...

The problem is that while European height trucks CAN go through the tunnel.. The air fans at each end of the tunnel may suck in any loose parts of the trailers. (the fans run like a Boeing 747 engine on idle). And that's why the are banned...

Always wondered about that thanks

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

dfx-

Calhoun wrote: »

You may not, as Im not interested in you mapping out the journey for me to show me how it's not an inconvenience. I have given you my reasons on thread for why I personally won't be going near dublin unless I have to.

Good for you on using the public transport, if I didn't have a choice I would use it but as I do I don't and would rather go to places that afford me the option to travel how I want.

That's fine, that's your opinion. But it is not something that can be used to prevent the tens of thousands of others using public transport into the city.

Public transport has to be organised for the needs of everyone who uses it, with all sorts of demands, city artery routes, orbital routes and not based on media scare stories, personal inconveniences or the Irish 'need' to have a car.

The bus gate for that reason is a good thing.

dubscottie wrote: »

I have had stuff stolen from me and l know of a few others that have had as well.
You convince yourself that you left it somewhere but slowly realize that some one has robbed you.

The aim for some seems to be to turn Dublin into some bicycle riding, craft beer drinking, artisan elastic band buying mecca.

Fine on the continent, but this is Ireland. A different culture that does not need changing. Tourists don't come here expecting an Irish version of one of the many bland European cities.

And what people forget is that many don't do single journeys in the car.

In this modern world people don't have the time to wait for buses, walk up the road and back etc.. Esp if you have kids.

No time to walk up the road? How do they manage to squeeze the walk from their car to their door into their schedule? Or the walk from the shop to the parked car?

rp

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I dunno, it gets horrid lonely on the M9 sometimes, not seeing another car all the way from Carlow and Kilkenny.

LXFlyer

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

What most people on this thread are missing - and indeed it's a common theme on this forum - is that public transport is always a poorer alternative to the private car.

- It's slow and generally wanders indirectly to its destination which wastes even more time

You keep on trotting out this line yet since Network Direct was implemented every QBC now has at least one bus route that takes a direct route along the QBC to the city.

Let's be honest, what you really mean is that there isn't a door-to-door bus route for everyone in the city, which clearly is impossible.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Public transport is there for those who can't afford a car or who don't have onsite parking if commuting to work, and that's fine.. but for anyone else it's something that will always be avoided if possible.

No it's not - it's to try and provide an effective method of getting in and out of our city and keep the city actually moving. If everyone took your view there would be complete and total gridlock.

I'll accept that for many orbital trips having a car is often unavoidable, given the unique nature of most individual trips, but this is not the case when travelling into Dublin City Centre.

We are coming to a point where, with trams passing through the city centre on the Green line every 3 minutes that the current situation just cannot continue and that steps are taken to ensure that the rest of the public transport services keep moving as well through the city.

LXFlyer

Stheno wrote: »

That's the problem imo with public transport.
There is no public transport option for me commuting from Swords to the City Centre which is quicker than my driving.

So I drive. The difference in cost is negligible

Stheno wrote: »

Actually if the OH an myself are heading into the city of an evening or weekend, we'd often take the bus, particularly the Swords Express as it's quick and convenient. It doesn't work as a mode of transport to where I work in Dublin 2 though.

Now on the bump off ramps points, I do sometimes (very rarely) take the 41x in the mornings with Dublin bus. The bus stop I use is about three hundred feet from a traffic lights where the bus makes a sharp right hand turn. There are usually about ten people getting on, and before people have made their way upstairs as downstairs is full, the bus is at those lights and turning, I've fallen several times attempting to get up the stairs or to a seat due to this. It's not pleasant.

Are you seriously suggesting that there are parts of Dublin 2 that are not within a reasonable walking distance of where either the Swords Express or 41x serves?

As for going up a bus stairs, would it not make more sense to wait until the bus has turned around the corner, given that you're clearly fully aware that the bus is going to turn that corner?

My bus goes around a roundabout close to a stop that I use, but I have the cop on to not get up from my seat until after the roundabout because I know the bus is going to be going around it. There's not much you can do about a bus having to go around a corner.

monument

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OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

cgcsb

Stheno wrote: »

That's the problem imo with public transport.
There is no public transport option for me commuting from Swords to the City Centre which is quicker than my driving.

So I drive. The difference in cost is negligible

Would a congestion charge help?

cgcsb

lxflyer wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that there are parts of Dublin 2 that are not within a reasonable walking distance of where either the Swords Express or 41x serves?

As for going up a bus stairs, would it not make more sense to wait until the bus has turned around the corner, given that you're clearly fully aware that the bus is going to turn that corner?

My bus goes around a roundabout close to a stop that I use, but I have the cop on to not get up from my seat until after the roundabout because I know the bus is going to be going around it. There's not much you can do about a bus having to go around a corner.

I'd be alarmed that s/he cannot pull their own body weight up a stairs with 2 handrails and generous steps even if there was a large backward tilt. People need more exercise.

Eugene Norman

dubscottie wrote: »

I have had stuff stolen from me and l know of a few others that have had as well.
You convince yourself that you left it somewhere but slowly realize that some one has robbed you.

The aim for some seems to be to turn Dublin into some bicycle riding, craft beer drinking, artisan elastic band buying mecca.

Fine on the continent, but this is Ireland. A different culture that does not need changing. Tourists don't come here expecting an Irish version of one of the many bland European cities.

And what people forget is that many don't do single journeys in the car.

In this modern world people don't have the time to wait for buses, walk up the road and back etc.. Esp if you have kids.

I really don't see what minor improvements to college green have anything to do with anything the pro car lobby is saying. Same arguments for any change or pedestrianisation.

Uriel.

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd be alarmed that s/he cannot pull their own body weight up a stairs with 2 handrails and generous steps even if there was a large backward tilt. People need more exercise.

Now imagine doing so, whilst carrying a few bags...

I can appreciate that particular poster's experience. I commute to work (5 days per week) and back with the bus. Still takes an hour most of the time - it's fine, but not a fantastic service by any means. Truth is, if I didn't have other expenses going at the moment, I'd probably drive which takes about the same time.

And the sooner the better the buses run behind 23.30... if that ever happens.

seamus

dubscottie wrote: »

Fine on the continent, but this is Ireland. A different culture that does not need changing. Tourists don't come here expecting an Irish version of one of the many bland European cities.

Ireland is not in some way special when it comes to traffic and transportation. The same rules apply here as they do in London or Amsterdam.

Tourists come here for culture, to experience Irish bars, restaurants and shops, to look at architecture. They don't come here to look at our transport system. Doing what another city has done, Amsterdam, for example, won't suddenly make Dublin look like Amsterdam. Because tourists don't come here to look at cars, busses and roads.

Having a city that's easy to get around by foot, bicycle or public transport is far more important than allowing Mary to drive up to the side door of Brown Thomas to collect her new designer handbag. Because tourists don't drive private cars into the city. And relatively few shoppers do too. So the city should accommodate the modes of transport which allow us to move the most amount of people in the most efficient manner.

Which means favouring walking, cycling & public transport over private vehicles.

In this modern world people don't have the time to wait for buses, walk up the road and back etc.. Esp if you have kids.

People who have kids don't bring them shopping in the city centre. Because there's too much traffic, funnily enough.

If we had an extensive network of pedestrianised shopping streets like many cities do (Bordeaux is one good example), you'll find more people go shopping in the city, with kids too, because it's easier to get around.

College Green would be a good start, but we should investigate other options to get us right across the river too.

hardCopy

dubscottie wrote: »

I have had stuff stolen from me and l know of a few others that have had as well.
You convince yourself that you left it somewhere but slowly realize that some one has robbed you.

The aim for some seems to be to turn Dublin into some bicycle riding, craft beer drinking, artisan elastic band buying mecca.

Fine on the continent, but this is Ireland. A different culture that does not need changing. Tourists don't come here expecting an Irish version of one of the many bland European cities.

And what people forget is that many don't do single journeys in the car.

In this modern world people don't have the time to wait for buses, walk up the road and back etc.. Esp if you have kids.

That post is absolute manure of the highest order. What have cars and gridlock got to do with Irish culture?



This was irish culture before Dublin City Council made sh1t of it.

Stheno

lxflyer wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that there are parts of Dublin 2 that are not within a reasonable walking distance of where either the Swords Express or 41x serves?

No, what I said in my first post is that it is quicker to drive in the mornings than to use public transport/walk, same in the evenings when I work in that location

As for going up a bus stairs, would it not make more sense to wait until the bus has turned around the corner, given that you're clearly fully aware that the bus is going to turn that corner?

My bus goes around a roundabout close to a stop that I use, but I have the cop on to not get up from my seat until after the roundabout because I know the bus is going to be going around it. There's not much you can do about a bus having to go around a corner.x

True, it's still pretty uncomfortable standing downstairs waiting for them to turn.

cgcsb wrote: »

Would a congestion charge help?

Don't know, I don't work in the city centre particularly often

Carawaystick

lxflyer wrote: »

You keep on trotting out this line yet since Network Direct was implemented every QBC now has at least one bus route that takes a direct route along the QBC to the city.

There's no qbc from Swords to Dublin city centre.
There's no buslane in parts of Santry ( morton stadium, between Coolock lane and Santry avenue; between Omni & the Comet)
in parts of Drumcondra - (from the Tolka to opposite Fagans)
Dorset st (ncr to gardiner st; at Temple st)

These aren't just gaps for letting other traffic take left turns, they hold up busses because the will is not there to implement a Quality bus corridor, and what is there is a sher its grand bus corridor.

LXFlyer

Carawaystick wrote: »

There's no qbc from Swords to Dublin city centre.
There's no buslane in parts of Santry ( morton stadium, between Coolock lane and Santry avenue; between Omni & the Comet)
in parts of Drumcondra - (from the Tolka to opposite Fagans)
Dorset st (ncr to gardiner st; at Temple st)

These aren't just gaps for letting other traffic take left turns, they hold up busses because the will is not there to implement a Quality bus corridor, and what is there is a sher its grand bus corridor.

Well actually officially that is a QBC but like most of the other ones it does have gaps in the on street priority.

None of our QBCs have 100% priority for the entire route.

There is a substantial amount of bus priority on that route.

Victor

noelfirl wrote: »

*tumbleweed rolls by*

Constructive posts only please.

Moderator

noelfirl

Victor wrote: »

Constructive posts only please.

Moderator

OK. The constructive post would be to state that those claiming "carmageddon", the "last nail in the coffin" and "I'm never shopping the city centre again because of this" (both here, and elsewhere), don't have a leg to stand on. There is not a single change proposed that will prevent local access to the city centre car parks, nor will those changes prevent people from driving across the city. Access will still be entirely possible to everywhere except three/four streets.

To be frank, it is also apparent that those espousing such viewpoints (again, both here and elsewhere), never come back to defend such wantonly lacking arguments.

_Kaiser_

noelfirl wrote: »

OK. The constructive post would be to state that those claiming "carmageddon", the "last nail in the coffin" and "I'm never shopping the city centre again because of this" (both here, and elsewhere), don't have a leg to stand on. There is not a single change proposed that will prevent local access to the city centre car parks, nor will those changes prevent people from driving across the city. Access will still be entirely possible to everywhere except three/four streets.

To be frank, it is also apparent that those espousing such viewpoints (again, both here and elsewhere), never come back to defend such wantonly lacking arguments.

There's no need to "defend" anything.. the points have been made.

Those who value their time and have access to alternatives (ie: cars) will take their business elsewhere -this thread was about shopping, not commuting to work after all.

But on that latter point, I wouldn't accept a job in the City Centre that didn't come with flexible hours/work from home options and free onsite parking. I wasted far too many years standing around at bus stops/platforms for buses/DARTs that didn't come and taking the "scenic route" to and from work - even allowing for traffic I could do it in half the time by car.

For all those who are happy to get dropped off somewhere in town, and then have to walk or make another connection to your eventual destination, fair play to ye. It's just as a much a choice as driving the car and if you have that kind of time and patience then why not?

For me though I value my time, comfort and flexibility more and public transport doesn't offer any better - or even comparable - alternatives on those fronts.