FAE Advanced Audit elective

Auditresit2015

AuditAgain wrote: »

Did anyone notice the senior had calculated a materiality level that didn't make sense in the first sim?

I mentioned this as part of my review as they said they calculated pm but didn't mention materiality. I thought it should be based on 1-3% revenue and that pm was much lost than the seniors estimate.

Torres999

AuditAgain wrote: »

It's so key that all repeaters fill out the CASSI survey so we're represented in the report to the board!

There's 50% of people who failed last years exam (around 500?) - an exam that was largely seen as the toughest they'd ever set. And the resit exam was in a different style (which we weren't told about). This really needs to be fed back to the exam board. They clearly changed the exam style to focus more on FR this year - that was a change in the Core course, not the elective. They should have told us if they were changing the course we were resitting.

Resitters have been put at a seriously unfair disadvantage, and they won't get that unless enough of us roar at them about it.

Did the survey right after the exam, can't help but feel it's on deaf ears though, they don't give a ****

Dellboy2007

Institute and their stupid planning. I reckon that cost me a lot of time that I could have wasted writing stuff I don't know about construction contracts!

There's no way you can do out plans for 3 sims and write full indicators IMO. Especially when you've got two audit risks.

Torres999

Dellboy2007 wrote: »

Institute and their stupid planning. I reckon that cost me a lot of time that I could have wasted writing stuff I don't know about construction contracts!

There's no way you can do out plans for 3 sims and write full indicators IMO. Especially when you've got two audit risks.

Didn't think we had to do as much planning in the elective, i did all mine on an external sheet, my planning for construction contracts was me writing and crossing out journal for 2 pages

AuditAgain

I didn't do a plan in the exam paper - did it in rough paper.

Someone in the other thread got feedback from their mock exam saying it wasn't needed for the elective, which I'd agree with.

Torres999

2ndtimelucky wrote: »

I don't see the "change in style". Was there more than one indicator on FR? I only saw the ias11 journals. Preparing journals has always been on the syllabus so will complaining about it help?

The things was though you needed to get the journals in indictor 2 to answer indicator 2 Which messed up 2/3 indicators, and you even needed FR for indictor 1 really

2ndtimelucky

Torres999 wrote: »

The things was though you needed to get the journals in indictor 2 to answer indicator 2 Which messed up 2/3 indicators, and you even needed FR for indictor 1 really

Fair point, I'm hoping they mark ind 3 on basis of journals I've worked out and conclusions drawn from them rather than treating them as separate answers

Torres999

2ndtimelucky wrote: »

Fair point, I'm hoping they mark ind 3 on basis of journals I've worked out and conclusions drawn from them rather than treating them as separate answers

Hopefully a good ol assumption be grand for the audit report

AuditAgain

Yes, "preparing journals" is on the syllabus, and I'm sure an understanding of FR is assumed. But it wouldn't be reasonable to say "here's information on how they've accounted for complex derivatives - propose adjustments".

Technically they can ask whatever the **** they want. They should, however, be reasonable and relatively consistent. You can't properly prepare for an exam without having an understanding of the format.

Prior years were much more ISA orientated.

And as mentioned above - unless you were up to scratch on construction contracts, you were screwed on most of that question, not just one indicator.

AuditAgain

Torres999 wrote: »

Didn't think we had to do as much planning in the elective, i did all mine on an external sheet, my planning for construction contracts was me writing and crossing out journal for 2 pages

I don't want to look back at that question (it'll depress me), but were there loads of journals coming out of the information provided does anyone know?

I knew I wouldn't have time to go through and remind myself of IAS11 calculations so had to make a decision to leave it. But were there examples where the "contract balance" was incorrect?

I noticed the last 1 where the loss should be recognised, and assuming all balances were right the credits should be as payables, but made no attempt to see if the actual balances were incorrect.

LastTime15

cson wrote: »

After hearing from someone who was talking to one of the past students they road test the paper on that this year is as hard if not harder apparently.

Heavy on FR & seemingly they had to delete an indicator & appendix to make it manageable timewise. :eek:

Someone mentioned this to me after the exam yesterday. Excuse me, but am I reading this correctly?

People saw the exam paper and were talking to students/their friends about it??

That's absolutely shocking! Anyone know who or what department it would be best to report this to in the institute?

Torres999

LastTime15 wrote: »

Someone mentioned this to me after the exam yesterday. Excuse me, but am I reading this correctly?

People saw the exam paper and were talking to students/their friends about it??

That's absolutely shocking! Anyone know who or what department it would be best to report this to in the institute?

Doubt think it's true but I do not believe that guys like Paul Monahan and Sean Murray know nothing, they 100% have to, they are always lurking around the institute, wouldn't have made a difference to the exam, but we under ISA 240 I'm very skeptical

LastTime15

It was Financial Reporting heavy, was as hard or harder than last year, and one case only had 2 indicators (appendix removed?) whereas the last 3 years it was 9 indicators.

Come off it, this persons info was accurate.

At a minimum some people obviously received info about it being Financial Reporting heavy which is completely unfair!

I imagine these people will actually have told their friends a lot more details as well and obviously just wouldn't post it on here.

I'm shocked. This is supposed to be a professional institution. This is Mickey Mouse ****.

Dellboy2007

LastTime15 wrote: »

It was Financial Reporting heavy, was as hard or harder than last year, and one case only had 2 indicators (appendix removed?) whereas the last 3 years it was 9 indicators.

Come off it, this persons info was accurate.

At a minimum some people obviously received info about it being Financial Reporting heavy which is completely unfair!

I imagine these people will actually have told their friends a lot more details as well and obviously just wouldn't post it on here.

I'm shocked. This is supposed to be a professional institution. This is Mickey Mouse ****.

Which sim had two indicators? I had three for each.

LastTime15

Crystal Group 1 Audit risks and procedures, 2 fraud risk. What'd you get?

Dellboy2007

LastTime15 wrote: »

Crystal Group 1 Audit risks and procedures, 2 fraud risk. What'd you get?

Oh right, I just presumed the risks and the procedures were split

Audit4Lyf

AuditAgain wrote: »

This really needs to be fed back to the exam board. They clearly changed the exam style to focus more on FR this year - that was a change in the Core course, not the elective.

Resitters have been put at a seriously unfair disadvantage, and they won't get that unless enough of us roar at them about it.

Don't mean to sound harsh but if you go into an audit exam without knowing your FR standards you're asking to fail.

Also your complaint will go no where as you are expected to have the same level of FR knowledge as everyone else (first time and repeats)

Abbey14

I know we need to know for and how to post journals but something so specific was cruel. anyway my issue was what were we looking at? What was the schedule? Was it a control account? I failed again and am so gutted.... I knew so much FR but it's more I had no idea what I was looking at- what they were tryin to tell me and as all indicators relied me knowing what was going on I couldn't answer anything..

AuditAgain

Audit4Lyf wrote: »

Don't mean to sound harsh but if you go into an audit exam without knowing your FR standards you're asking to fail.

Also your complaint will go no where as you are expected to have the same level of FR knowledge as everyone else (first time and repeats)

Funny enough that level of FR knowledge would have been fine for any other year.

If someone predicted construction contracts coming up in the audit elective last year they'd have been laughed at.

It's easily the most complex FR scenario that's been included in an FAE audit elective paper. If you're preparing for the audit elective it would have seemed nuts to spend time going back to heavier FR standards.

AuditAgain

Abbey14 wrote: »

I know we need to know for and how to post journals but something so specific was cruel. anyway my issue was what were we looking at? What was the schedule? Was it a control account? I failed again and am so gutted.... I knew so much FR but it's more I had no idea what I was looking at- what they were tryin to tell me and as all indicators relied me knowing what was going on I couldn't answer anything..

I thought this as well. I was staring at it wondering what "contract balance" was. Was it the revenue to date, the receivable/payable balance, or a control account?

I assumed it was the receivable/payable balance in the end. But it definitely could have been clearer.

mrduffy

I do not think i said a lot of conclusions at end of my answers am i guaranteed fail. i concentrated so hard on the IAS 11 construction contracts trying to undertand contract balances journals and used up a lot of time that my exam technique got lost in the other cases. I did not see the fraud and instead went with fin situation occuring with impairment of assets cause the owner taught the property was worth 2 m but open market value was 1.5m. i had no conclusion for the agreed upon procedures just a few points down on this indicator. amvery worried after it

Dellboy2007

20 times 20 your inbox is full and can't respond to your PM

20 Times 20 Times

Dellboy2007 wrote: »

20 times 20 your inbox is full and can't respond to your PM

Hopefully cleared up now

20 Times 20 Times

Sim 1

Ethics , threats , safeguards, recommendations
Risks - loads of them eg fx , owner managed business
Aup - redrafted report no assurance given . Ethical standard 5 and engagement letter
Recalculate materiality

Sim 2

Fraud , related party transaction
Risks and procedures

Sim 3
Review work paper - insuffient audit evidence it was material
Make adjustments approx 300k isa450 suad
Draft the audit report - disclaimer

Abbey14

20 Times 20 Times wrote: »

Sim 1

Ethics , threats , safeguards, recommendations
Risks - loads of them eg fx , owner managed business
Aup - redrafted report no assurance given . Ethical standard 5 and engagement letter
Recalculate materiality

Sim 2

Fraud , related party transaction
Risks and procedures

Sim 3
Review work paper - insuffient audit evidence it was material
Make adjustments approx 300k isa450 suad
Draft the audit report - disclaimer

Has anyone heard from a lecturer or anyone on what they thought of the paper..I honestly don't know can it be done a third time and most repeats are def out of contract...

Kev1001

Abbey14 wrote: »

Has anyone heard from a lecturer or anyone on what they thought of the paper..I honestly don't know can it be done a third time and most repeats are def out of contract...

One of the guys wearing a suit that was walking around seen me looking at the exam paper outside the exam after and started talking about it. I don't know who he was but I remember he gave a speech when I was doing Cap 1s. Said that he missed the materiality indicator in Sim 1 himself. I hope the vast majority of people missed it (I did).

Iwantcoffeenai

Kev1001 wrote: »

One of the guys wearing a suit that was walking around seen me looking at the exam paper outside the exam after and started talking about it. I don't know who he was but I remember he gave a speech when I was doing Cap 1s. Said that he missed the materiality indicator in Sim 1 himself. I hope the vast majority of people missed it (I did).

I wrote a paragraph about materially but didn't think it was a separate indicator. That could be the difference between me passing and failing.

AuditAgain

Same. Included it as a paragraph within the overall 'issues' indicator.

Abbey14

Iwantcoffeenai wrote: »

I wrote a paragraph about materially but didn't think it was a separate indicator. That could be the difference between me passing and failing.

I knew it was strangely put in but i didnt do anything as the partner was fine and there was nothing to say that it wasn't based on PBT, net assets etc... there was nothing to say it was wrong....

AuditAgain

I thought it stuck out because it was the senior saying he had calculated it (and just from looking at it it seemed too high). The partner hadn't approved it, we were reviewing the seniors planning work.

Picking up on that one point is not going to save me from the disaster of that construction contracts question though. I was thinking back and think I NC'd across the board on that one. It's definitely the SIM I failed the paper on.

Abbey14

AuditAgain wrote: »

I thought it stuck out because it was the senior saying he had calculated it (and just from looking at it it seemed too high). The partner hadn't approved it, we were reviewing the seniors planning work.

Picking up on that one point is not going to save me from the disaster of that construction contracts question though. I was thinking back and think I NC'd across the board on that one. It's definitely the SIM I failed the paper on.

Its going to be such a long wait... not sure if i can do it a third time... its BS!

Its not the worst to repeat but think if i do it a third time ill be doing ACCA along side it because its another year on hold.

AuditAgain

I've been thinking that.

It's a bit of a nightmare though. We have one paper left under CAI, and it traditionally wasn't the 'hard' one. It's the elective like.

But I think if we go ACCA you have to go back and do all the last round of exams (five). As in they wouldn't give any credit/exemption for having passed core. Would be expensive enough too.

Can't believe after college, CAP1, CAP2, finishing my contract and having only one exam to go the only thing that's making sense to me at the minute is just walking away.

Abbey14

Does anyone know how many ACCA exams I would have to do if I only have the audit to do?

When would they be held?

Abbey14

AuditAgain wrote: »

I've been thinking that.

It's a bit of a nightmare though. We have one paper left under CAI, and it traditionally wasn't the 'hard' one. It's the elective like.

But I think if we go ACCA you have to go back and do all the last round of exams (five). As in they wouldn't give any credit/exemption for having passed core. Would be expensive enough too.

Can't believe after college, CAP1, CAP2, finishing my contract and having only one exam to go the only thing that's making sense to me at the minute is just walking away.

Sorry didn't see that - how annoying thought I would just have one to do.

Its just so frustrating I deserved to fail last year my approach was wrong but we got help this year but just the paper...

20 Times 20 Times

I recalculated materiality in the first sim but no way was it a full indicator

FAEakaLotto

I switched to acca for 2 reasons! 1 I was not confident that I would pass the repeat. 2 the timings of the June sitting was good for getting me in the frame of mind for studying again. I sat 3 papers, all closed book so were good from the perspective of getting a solid foundation in these subject area

They may not be as useful if you are repeating elective though as I don't think you will be able to sit their version of advanced auditing at your first sitting. In total I believe that you will have approx 5 exams in total but this will vary depending on your college course etc. for example. I was required to sit a law exam.

If you do decide to go down the route of doing both aca and acca I would recommend that you do not pay for all the exemptions upfront. I did and it was very expensive. I found out after sitting the core repeat that these payments could have been deferred.

Abbey14

FAEakaLotto wrote: »

I switched to acca for 2 reasons! 1 I was not confident that I would pass the repeat. 2 the timings of the June sitting was good for getting me in the frame of mind for studying again. I sat 3 papers, all closed book so were good from the perspective of getting a solid foundation in these subject area

They may not be as useful if you are repeating elective though as I don't think you will be able to sit their version of advanced auditing at your first sitting. In total I believe that you will have approx 5 exams in total but this will vary depending on your college course etc. for example. I was required to sit a law exam.

If you do decide to go down the route of doing both aca and acca I would recommend that you do not pay for all the exemptions upfront. I did and it was very expensive. I found out after sitting the core repeat that these payments could have been deferred.

Thanks for that... I really thought I could just sit the audit of ACCA - that kind of puts me off to have to do 5.

While I am sure I failed I would nearly wait just to be sure as I could pay for exemptions, and start studying for papers to find out a miracle has occurred.

FAEakaLotto

I would absolutely wait if I was you! I know from experience that it is unlike any other exam in terms of having no idea if you passed or failed. The only exception is the 5 or so per cent who left early or on the other hand the 5 or so per cent who are in the running for a place!

As far as I can remember you will be required to sit corporate reporting, ethics, and law before you can move onto their version of finals/electives of which I think you must choose 2!

Auditresit2015

Well guys how are we all feeling with less than a month to the big day?? You would think second time around at this audit elective I would not be nervous but I think i am worse lol dreaming about results constantly. Fingers crossed pass rates are better this year and I pass so I can get out of this nightmare.

Anyone hear any feedback from people involved in marking how the general feedback is?

iluvfatfrogs

Auditresit2015 wrote: »

Well guys how are we all feeling with less than a month to the big day?? You would think second time around at this audit elective I would not be nervous but I think i am worse lol dreaming about results constantly. Fingers crossed pass rates are better this year and I pass so I can get out of this nightmare.

Anyone hear any feedback from people involved in marking how the general feedback is?

Haven't heard anything but i'd be betting that pass rates are up, probably near 65%, might be too obvious to increase to 70% in one year.

There is also a natural tendency to become less confidence the further away after exams and closer to results!

Torres999

Well im definitely less confident the closer it gets, to the point where I've decided I've failed and I'm going travelling. It is also my second time doing it.
I think the pass rate however will surely go up. I hoping I can pass on Sims 1 and 2 alone because the more I think about 3 the more I got NC

Auditresit2015

Feel the same myself. Sim 1&2 felt ok but sim 3 threw me. Happy enough with my audit report but whether it's enough time will tell.

Lovely idea about the travelling, are you doing it regardless or only if u fail?

Torres999 wrote: »

Well im definitely less confident the closer it gets, to the point where I've decided I've failed and I'm going travelling. It is also my second time doing it.
I think the pass rate however will surely go up. I hoping I can pass on Sims 1 and 2 alone because the more I think about 3 the more I got NC

Dellboy2007

I don't think the core pass rate will move from hearing how tough it was. Audit has bottomed out and APM has as good as maxed out (was higher in first year I think).

I'd say the elective pass rates will converge closer together but I think gone are the days of high pass rates, especially when the institute has a repeat option now.

Looking back on some of the comments on the thread around people saying they would never ask a specialist area such as investments, etc... I think we would all have happily taken that in retrospect over construction contracts! At least there was a chapter in the book on how to audit them!

Auditresit2015

I'm not sure that pass rates are linked to the repeat option. That would be crazy and unfair especially as CAI have released their document stating that you need50% to pass in elective. I also don't think that you merge the results, either we pass or fail, as simply as that. Perhaps I am wrong.

I don't think that construction contracts are completely unfair, said you are prepared you could through it, but for me the biggest issue is the change in format of exam and how I couldn't even gather a single thought that this would come up. One thing I will say though, I have done Cap 1 right through and in every exam there has been a surprise somewhere so I'm not totally against it but the fact that 3 indicators all linked to same topic and in many cases people's careers depend it is where the issues lay for me

Dellboy2007 wrote: »

I don't think the core pass rate will move from hearing how tough it was. Audit has bottomed out and APM has as good as maxed out (was higher in first year I think).

I'd say the elective pass rates will converge closer together but I think gone are the days of high pass rates, especially when the institute has a repeat option now.

Looking back on some of the comments on the thread around people saying they would never ask a specialist area such as investments, etc... I think we would all have happily taken that in retrospect over construction contracts! At least there was a chapter in the book on how to audit them!

AuditAgain

Torres999 wrote: »

Well im definitely less confident the closer it gets, to the point where I've decided I've failed and I'm going travelling. It is also my second time doing it.
I think the pass rate however will surely go up. I hoping I can pass on Sims 1 and 2 alone because the more I think about 3 the more I got NC

Think I'm the opposite. Straight after the exam I'm sure I failed. Then as it gets closer to results I start thinking "Maybe I was being overly critical....I'm aiming for 50% here...they'll have to be fair given the ridiculous construction case...". I develop a nice little false sense of hope out of thin air just to ensure the results day is as painful as possible.

Auditresit2015

AuditAgain wrote: »

Think I'm the opposite. Straight after the exam I'm sure I failed. Then as it gets closer to results I start thinking "Maybe I was being overly critical....I'm aiming for 50% here...they'll have to be fair given the ridiculous construction case...". I develop a nice little false sense of hope out of thin air just to ensure the results day is as painful as possible.

I literally couldn't even guess how it went especially after the results last year. This wait absolutely destroys me as I am sure it does for everyone else. Having heard that the elective papers are marked makes it even more painful I just want to know now if my life is on hold for anther year lol

U look at it and say 50% sure that's grand but I can't even recall how I thought after the exam. My brain has blanked it he he

Dellboy2007

Everyone is going to be hoping that they pass on first two sims, I know people who literally said they didn't do the last sim and still reckon they did enough to pass!! I also think some are over looking the fact that within the first two sims there were indicators that were not straight forward, having spoke to a lot of people after the exam there was massive discrepancy between the answers. Take that AUP indicator as an example, some drafted a report, some drafted an engagement letter and some put down procedures that they were going to have to do.

If you are one of those people that is relying on first two sims (which I am as third sim was a wash out) you literally can't afford to have messed up on any indicator in first two sims. Same with that fraud indicator, some picked up on it but others didn't. We also know that sometimes to get C it might be that you mention a good number of points AND mentions this one tiny thing!

This for me is heart breaking as it's the institute who determine what that one thing is and it's the different between pass and fail. So for me I couldn't call it, last year I thought I passed it but I think that was complete naivety after doing well in the mock. There seems to be a few first time sitters who think they passed it also again this year (as mentioned above who didn't even do third sim) whom I think are in for a bit of surprise in three weeks.

Auditresit2015

Agree fully with you. It's just so unpredictable unless you are lucky enough to be the type to aim for a place. Unfortunately for me, I am completely reliant on the first two sims and the last indicator on sim three (draft auditor report) as my journals and additional work on the contracts were dire.

Like you say a lot of people will be surprised as I was last year . This year I am taking nothing from the mock other than its another prep for my exam technique. All we can do here is hope 😂

Dellboy2007 wrote: »

Everyone is going to be hoping that they pass on first two sims, I know people who literally said they didn't do the last sim and still reckon they did enough to pass!! I also think some are over looking the fact that within the first two sims there were indicators that were not straight forward, having spoke to a lot of people after the exam there was massive discrepancy between the answers. Take that AUP indicator as an example, some drafted a report, some drafted an engagement letter and some put down procedures that they were going to have to do.

If you are one of those people that is relying on first two sims (which I am as third sim was a wash out) you literally can't afford to have messed up on any indicator in first two sims. Same with that fraud indicator, some picked up on it but others didn't. We also know that sometimes to get C it might be that you mention a good number of points AND mentions this one tiny thing!

This for me is heart breaking as it's the institute who determine what that one thing is and it's the different between pass and fail. So for me I couldn't call it, last year I thought I passed it but I think that was complete naivety after doing well in the mock. There seems to be a few first time sitters who think they passed it also again this year (as mentioned above who didn't even do third sim) whom I think are in for a bit of surprise in three weeks.

20 Times 20 Times

I'm really starting to get worried now !! I thought the first two sims went ok. My problem here is so dos everyone so for that reason they will get marked harder :-( . The last sim i disclaimed the audit report and drafted the paragraphs I'm hoping that gets me over the line !!

AuditAgain

Definitely agree that people (myself included) have forgotten that the first two sims weren't easy or straightforward. You just tend to forget about them because of sim 3.

The mad thing about sim 3 is that from talking to people and reading on here, 2 months on there still doesn't seem to be a general consensus on what the case was even getting at (I.e was it about testing/evidence or was it calculations, and what were the issues to pick out).

Just thinking about it again is depressing me.