Ireland v Scotland - RWC Warm Up

The Rape of Lucretia

Buer wrote: »

He got 4 games on the bounce there in the last days of Schmidt's time at Leinster and was anonymous despite Leinster winning handsomely in some of those games.

Understated excellence, pulling the strings and making those around him look good, restraining himself from any flashy or solo plays for the good of the team and ensuring a comprehensive victory.
The perfect 12 !

Yeah_Right

First Up wrote: »

We think in terms of out half and two centres. However in New Zealand they operate the 10 and 12 as first and second five eights - seeing those two as a unit, rather than 12 and 13.

This was very common in the past. The 12 would also be very capable of slotting in at 10. The likes of Little, Mauger, Stensness and even Carter spent a lot of their careers between 10 and 12.

More recently in NZ 12 has been a power runner but also a distributor. The fullback has become the back up play maker.

bilston

Madigan generally impressed me on Sat, along with Henry and SOB was a candidate for my MOTM. He occasionally runs up blind alleys and can look a bit unnatural at 10 but he is a more than capable player. He is better than Jackson at the more obvious things a 10 does (goal kicking and breaking - if Jackson hadn't missed the sitter in front of the posts against Wales I think the narrative on his performance amongst some would have been very different) and that probably clouds people's judgements a bit. However on the basis of the last two weeks he has probably a bit of an edge over Jackson currently. Although we did look more potent against Wales...then again Wales were pretty poor compared to Scotland...

At the end of last season Jackson was ahead of Madigan. It is swings and roundabouts.

One thing I'm certain of is that for the sake of Jackson he needs to be given the kicking duties full time for Ulster. It's not even as if Pienaar is that reliable anyway. By all means give RP the long distance kicks to nothing but PJ should be kicking the rest of time.

I'm pretty sure he will go to the WC, however I was thinking today that if there is a surprise omission it could be Jackson. We've gone to WCs before with one out and out fly half and a utility back up.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

bilston wrote: »

One thing I'm certain of is that for the sake of Jackson he needs to be given the kicking duties full time for Ulster. It's not even as if Pienaar is that reliable anyway. By all means give RP the long distance kicks to nothing but PJ should be kicking the rest of time.

Didn't Humphries do a lot of the kicking at Ulster last season? He was maybe 3rd behind Madigan on the Pro 12 Golden Boot list. Can't remember the exact stats but I'm fairly sure.

Quin_Dub

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Didn't Humphries do a lot of the kicking at Ulster last season? He was maybe 3rd behind Madigan on the Pro 12 Golden Boot list. Can't remember the exact stats but I'm fairly sure.

How much of that was down to Jackson being Injured though?

Jackson should be kicking everything inside 45M/50M for Ulster when he's on the pitch, regardless of who else is on the field..

bilston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Didn't Humphries do a lot of the kicking at Ulster last season? He was maybe 3rd behind Madigan on the Pro 12 Golden Boot list. Can't remember the exact stats but I'm fairly sure.

If Humphreys was playing it meant Jackson wasn't. I actually can't think off the top of my head who kicked when Pienaar and Humphreys were the half backs. I don't think they played all that much together.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I was trying to look back through the stats there but my app kept crashing. For the first few months of the season anyway it was either Jackson or Humphries on the field. Never both. Did find one match though where Humphries came on for Ludick and for a while both he and Jackson were on the field. Jackson had one kick and then Humphries took the last one.

His Pro12 stats for the year were 33/39 kicks. Madigan's were 47/54. Stats like that are tricky though. Don't take into account where the kicks are being taken from, time in thr match etc.

Irrelevant anyway as Humphries isn't in contention here. Just interesting to note there may be two better kickers at Ulster than Jackson.

EDIT - There were 6 matchest around the time Jackson was out injured that Pienaar and Humphries played together. Pienaar took all the kicks.

connachta

I guess the interpros this friday will be crucial for those on the fringes of the 31 men squad
Schmidt should release Bowe, D Kearney, Jones, Zebo, Boss, Marmion, White, Bent, Killcoyne, Jackson, Madigan and Conan.
He must choose one of the 2 games and send Michael Kearney, Les Kiss and/or Simon Easterby to the other one

dub_skav

For wc squad I'd say the interpros will only be used to give guys coming back from injury a run out, so maybe Moore. From an Irish perspective I don't think joe would read too much into a performance between weakened teams where he didn't control the gameplan or individual instructions

Quin_Dub

dub_skav wrote: »

For wc squad I'd say the interpros will only be used to give guys coming back from injury a run out, so maybe Moore. From an Irish perspective I don't think joe would read too much into a performance between weakened teams where he didn't control the gameplan or individual instructions

Agreed - Only those that need a run to prove/improve match fitness should get a run...

Watching someone play in a relatively mickey-mouse game against similarly unprepared opposition won't carry a lot of weight..

connachta

dub_skav wrote: »

For wc squad I'd say the interpros will only be used to give guys coming back from injury a run out, so maybe Moore. From an Irish perspective I don't think joe would read too much into a performance between weakened teams where he didn't control the gameplan or individual instructions

Moore and Furlong will be kept in the fridge IMO

connachta

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Agreed - Only those that need a run to prove/improve match fitness should get a run...

Watching someone play in a relatively mickey-mouse game against similarly unprepared opposition won't carry a lot of weight..

Well Munster-Connacht will be quite a solid game at least

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Yeah, can't see any of the guys who are even 70-80% likely to make the team playing for their provinces. As others have said, guys who need fitness and/or those on the very outer fringe of the Ireland training squad might.

Can't see that the provinces would be that interested in having most of them anyway. If they're likely to be away for the first 2 months of the season they'd want to be giving the guys who'll be playing week in week out as much pre season game time as they can. I would think anyway.

Quin_Dub

connachta wrote: »

Well Munster-Connacht will be quite a solid game at least

Perhaps.. but JS isn't going to watch the game and think "Jaysus, Marmion is making sh!t of Cathal Sheridan..That's him on the plane!!"

But he might watch the Leinster game for example as say "Marty Moore is getting himself about , that injury looks sorted...Good news"

The Rape of Lucretia

connachta wrote: »

I guess the interpros this friday will be crucial for those on the fringes of the 31 men squad
Schmidt should release Bowe, D Kearney, Jones, Zebo, Boss, Marmion, White, Bent, Killcoyne, Jackson, Madigan and Conan.
He must choose one of the 2 games and send Michael Kearney, Les Kiss and/or Simon Easterby to the other one

Is Marmion not already released ? 'Pre-released' as it were ?

Stheno

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Is Marmion not already released ? 'Pre-released' as it were ?

Think he was released last week

connachta

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Is Marmion not already released ? 'Pre-released' as it were ?

No just 'temporarily" released.

connachta

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Perhaps.. but JS isn't going to watch the game and think "Jaysus, Marmion is making sh!t of Cathal Sheridan..That's him on the plane!!"

But he might watch the Leinster game for example as say "Marty Moore is getting himself about , that injury looks sorted...Good news"

SH may be the spot where individualities are easily evaluated whatever the opposition is (party evaluated, but still)

And Moore shouldn't be risked only a week before Wales. Maybe on the bench...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Schmidt doesn't seem to be going to actually "cut" anyone until the last minute. He's released a few guys back to their provinces but has said they're by no means out of the picture. Now, maybe he's just being a bit less harsh than the likes of Gatlin by allowing everyone to be part of the squad for as long as possible, which can only be a good thing. There's a few players there may well get a call up at the last minute to fly out to England and the longer they've spent with the full squad over the summer the better.

total former

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Schmidt doesn't seem to be going to actually "cut" anyone until the last minute. He's released a few guys back to their provinces but has said they're by no means out of the picture. Now, maybe he's just being a bit less harsh than the likes of Gatlin by allowing everyone to be part of the squad for as long as possible, which can only be a good thing. There's a few players there may well get a call up at the last minute to fly out to England and the longer they've spent with the full squad over the summer the better.

He had said he would cut a few after the Scotland game but with a couple of injuries, he might not bother.

I dunno, I'd say lads would be dreading being released. Marty Moore will be let go and definitely brought back, anyone else will be nervous if they're sent home.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

total former wrote: »

He had said he would cut a few after the Scotland game but with a couple of injuries, he might not bother.
I dunno, I'd say lads would be dreading being released. Marty Moore will be let go and definitely brought back, anyone else will be nervous if they're sent home.

Even just looking at the future of the team it's bound to be a good thing going forward to keep the whole training squad there, particularly the younger ones. I would assume a world cup training camp is a bit more intense than your average pre season or 6 Nations. It's bound to be beneficial for them to think they just missed out on the final squad rather than be cut weeks in advance and know they were nowhere near it.

.ak

I could see Fitz being released for game time tbh.

total former

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Even just looking at the future of the team it's bound to be a good thing going forward to keep the whole training squad there, particularly the younger ones. I would assume a world cup training camp is a bit more intense than your average pre season or 6 Nations. It's bound to be beneficial for them to think they just missed out on the final squad rather than be cut weeks in advance and know they were nowhere near it.

Yeah definitely, but I think the releases will be very targetted.

BTW is Gilroy the only fit player in camp yet to be involved? (Apart from the obvious first choices).

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

Yeah definitely, but I think the releases will be very targetted.

BTW is Gilroy the only fit player in camp yet to be involved? (Apart from the obvious first choices).

The way things are going they'll start Gilroy and Kearney against Wales and they'll score 5 tries between them...

alias no.9

total former wrote: »

He had said he would cut a few after the Scotland game but with a couple of injuries, he might not bother.

I dunno, I'd say lads would be dreading being released. Marty Moore will be let go and definitely brought back, anyone else will be nervous if they're sent home.

There's a whole lot of dread going on then, they've all been released. The squad will reconvene on Sunday.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/2015/0817/721781-no-fresh-injuries-for-ireland-after-scotland-clash/

connachta

So my 12 named-guys may well play for interprovincial games

Stheno

alias no.9 wrote: »

There's a whole lot of dread going on then, they've all been released. The squad will reconvene on Sunday.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/2015/0817/721781-no-fresh-injuries-for-ireland-after-scotland-clash/

Lol I was just coming in to post that

total former

alias no.9 wrote: »

There's a whole lot of dread going on then, they've all been released. The squad will reconvene on Sunday.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/2015/0817/721781-no-fresh-injuries-for-ireland-after-scotland-clash/

Ha! Shows what I bleedin know!

vienne86

I'd say they're glad to get a few days away from Carton - they must be getting on each others' nervers at this stage!

jacothelad

Yeah_Right wrote: »

This was very common in the past. The 12 would also be very capable of slotting in at 10. The likes of Little, Mauger, Stensness and even Carter spent a lot of their careers between 10 and 12.

More recently in NZ 12 has been a power runner but also a distributor. The fullback has become the back up play maker.

Like Payne at Ulster before he was moved. Ulster lost a lot of their back line punch when this happened. Irrespective of Schmidt and Payne's desire to play at 13, he was more beneficial to Ulster at 15, particularly when Cave is better there than he is at 13.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Marmion has scored two tries against Munster this evening, so far! Sign him up.

connachta

Bring him up to London is better!