The Dark side of the game.

TCDStudent1

So disappointed with today's match. Two great attacking teams who feel they have to be cynical & negative to win. Just go out and play the way you want. Back yourself to be better than the opposition, rather than trying to win by diving, pulling players back etc.

JeffKenna

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Yes that was a bad foul in the hurling, the perpretrator well aware could hurt someone hauling them down like that.
The sin bin I think was trialled in the league once and scrapped? I might have that wrong.
One issue with the sin bin, you haul down a player who was going through on goal. It is the second such occasion, preventing two goal chances and now that player is injured after being hauled down. 10 minutes in the sin bin seems inadequate punishment?
Also the perpretrating team is well capable of slowing the game down while they are down to 14 men. Refs have a tendency to go easy on a team then when they are down to 14. Down to 14 but the ref is now allowing them be over zealous in their tackling.
How would you handle the time keeping aspect of it at levels other than inter county? For the last 10 min rule I think Refs can check their watch to know when 10 mins are up and signal that with a simple gesture at the next stoppage in play holding up their watch hand and touching the black card to it. Clearly indicates we are into the last 10 minutes of play and hence the black card is not substitutable.

Why not just bring in a 10 minute sinbin for a black card?

washman3

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

So disappointed with today's match. Two great attacking teams who feel they have to be cynical & negative to win. Just go out and play the way you want. Back yourself to be better than the opposition, rather than trying to win by diving, pulling players back etc.

Totally agree. A game best forgotten.
As a neutral in fairness, I did think that Dublin set out for an offensive game but got dragged into the cynical muck we have never witnessed from them in years.

TCDStudent1

washman3 wrote: »

Totally agree. A game best forgotten.
As a neutral in fairness, I did think that Dublin set out for an offensive game but got dragged into the cynical muck we have never witnessed from them in years.

It didn't even make sense for them to be cynical as O'Connor was pointing every chance they gave him!

washman3

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

It didn't even make sense for them to be cynical as O'Connor was pointing every chance they gave him!

2 or 3 of them were of the very soft variety. I would bet they will put huge focus on this during the coming week though.

TCDStudent1

I do wonder if the McCann ban had stood, would McMahon have dived for the O'Sé incident?

Jippo

washman3 wrote: »

2 or 3 of them were of the very soft variety. I would bet they will put huge focus on this during the coming week though.

Even if three were soft (I saw one soft one alright with Keegan going to ground easily enough), there were still six frees conceded in scoring range.

Dublin's ill-discipline cost them this match.

keeponhurling

Jippo wrote: »

Even if three were soft (I saw one soft one alright with Keegan going to ground easily enough), there were still six frees conceded in scoring range.

Dublin's ill-discipline cost them this match.

A couple of frees were at a difficult range, and dissent caused them to brought in closer. That was pure indiscipline.

Jayop

It was probably the dirtiest game of the year but there's been very little said about it. A few articles but not a lot. Pulling, dragging, headbutts, punches, wrestling all going on. Shocking stuff from the purists.

TCDStudent1

Jayop wrote: »

It was probably the dirtiest game of the year but there's been very little said about it. A few articles but not a lot. Pulling, dragging, headbutts, punches, wrestling all going on. Shocking stuff from the purists.

There was a huge amount said about it - just read the threads on here!

Jayop

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

There was a huge amount said about it - just read the threads on here!

I'm flicking through them now. Like I said I was away for a while so wasn't on here during the last two weeks much.

There seems like there was a certain amount posted about it in here but nothing like the criticism I'd have expected from such a game. If it was two different coloured strips it would have been much different.

Grudaire

Jayop wrote:

There seems like there was a certain amount posted about it in here but nothing like the criticism I'd have expected from such a game. If it was two different coloured strips it would have been much different.

I think you (and McStay) are slightly biased?!

Jayop

Grudaire wrote: »

I think you (and McStay) are slightly biased?!

Aren't we all? I think that's the nature of sport.

Ceist_Beag

Jayop wrote: »

I'm flicking through them now. Like I said I was away for a while so wasn't on here during the last two weeks much.

There seems like there was a certain amount posted about it in here but nothing like the criticism I'd have expected from such a game. If it was two different coloured strips it would have been much different.

There has been a huge amount of coverage of the negative aspects of the match. The media have been pretty consistent in their response to this match in comparison to their response to the Tyrone/Monaghan one Jayop, I think you might be a bit off in suggesting there is any difference here because of the teams involved.

Jayop

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

There has been a huge amount of coverage of the negative aspects of the match. The media have been pretty consistent in their response to this match in comparison to their response to the Tyrone/Monaghan one Jayop, I think you might be a bit off in suggesting there is any difference here because of the teams involved.

It wouldn't be the first time I was off about something!!

LeoB

Jayop wrote: »

It was probably the dirtiest game of the year but there's been very little said about it. A few articles but not a lot. Pulling, dragging, headbutts, punches, wrestling all going on. Shocking stuff from the purists.

Rumours of head butts ok but I believe it was proved otherwise. Not a very dirty game but very negative. 2 good footballing sides trying to cancel each other out.

Unfortunately Joe McQuillan got no support from the 6 officials who were there to help him it appears they dozed off just after the throw in but one woke up to nail Connolly.

wackokid

LeoB wrote: »

Rumours of head butts ok but I believe it was proved otherwise. Not a very dirty game but very negative. 2 good footballing sides trying to cancel each other out.

Unfortunately Joe McQuillan got no support from the 6 officials who were there to help him it appears they dozed off just after the throw in but one woke up to nail Connolly.

Well Leo the four umpires couldn't help him unless he asked them. Small picked it off the ground to clear Cluxo's bothún with an umpire less than a few feet away looking directly down at him. Under GAA rules he couldn't open his mouth and he didn't. What an efficient outfit is our GAAAAAAAAAAA. ??
Hard to imagine a group of adults drawing up rules for a ball game within which is such a bizarre proscription on drawing a refs attention to a serious foul.
Could only happen in Ireland.

Ace2007

wackokid wrote: »

Well Leo the four umpires couldn't help him unless he asked them. Small picked it off the ground to clear Cluxo's bothún with an umpire less than a few feet away looking directly down at him. Under GAA rules he couldn't open his mouth and he didn't. What an efficient outfit is our GAAAAAAAAAAA. ??
Hard to imagine a group of adults drawing up rules for a ball game within which is such a bizarre proscription on drawing a refs attention to a serious foul.
Could only happen in Ireland.

But sure it was the same for the push on Cluxton for the Fermanagh game.
Totally wrong, but on the other posters comment about the linesman waking up at full time - i totally agree, countless Dublin lads and Mayo lads could have gotten black cards for taking out the man who laid the ball off. But linesman saw nothing at all.

I doubt he even saw what happened for the red card incident and was more of Connolly punch mayo lad, red for Connolly and then ref gave yellow to Mayo as he obv was up to no good (it's what ref's do - the fail to find out where something happened or who started it and just hand out yellows, It was more a black card offence than yellow)

Grudaire

wackokid wrote:

Well Leo the four umpires couldn't help him unless he asked them.

Correct! But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant

Small picked it off the ground to clear Cluxo's bothún with an umpire less than a few feet away looking directly down at him.

The ball was bouncing from what I saw on the day and on the Sunday Game.
Do you have a clip that shows otherwise?
If not it's a bit unfair to make up stuff to bash McQuillan with!

wackokid

Grudaire wrote: »

Correct! But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant



The ball was bouncing from what I saw on the day and on the Sunday Game.
Do you have a clip that shows otherwise?
If not it's a bit unfair to make up stuff to bash McQuillan with!

Well now Aodhán this ain't no rant.
All fact, and I am bashing the rules not McQuillan. Try to pull your head out of the sand.
I don't have the ability to post clips of play here but I am 100% sure that Mr Small picked the ball off the turf illegally having watched it many times on SKY+ replays, in real time and slow mo.
Did you spot McManamon's double hop in real time, or McLoughlin's third man tackle in the play leading up to the Mayo penalty.
That game was almost impossible to ref as the game itself has such a proliferation of silly rules that most people don't even know what they are now, including the refs and linesmen.
But sure it keeps us talking eh?

LeoB

wackokid wrote: »

Well Leo the four umpires couldn't help him unless he asked them. Small picked it off the ground to clear Cluxo's bothún with an umpire less than a few feet away looking directly down at him. Under GAA rules he couldn't open his mouth and he didn't. What an efficient outfit is our GAAAAAAAAAAA. ??
Hard to imagine a group of adults drawing up rules for a ball game within which is such a bizarre proscription on drawing a refs attention to a serious foul.
Could only happen in Ireland.

What are they wired up for? Ordering the half time meal?;) From what I know they can draw his attention to "foul play" ie a strike on an opponent but not a technical free so he (McQuillan) was badly let down in many areas of the field. The umpires could previously draw the referees attention by moving away from the post and keeping their hand in the air. The linesmen on Sunday were simply disgraceful.

On the Cluxton push be Fermanagh I think the referee used common sense. It was not going to change the course of the game.

I am not G.A.A basher but ........... This has got to far with what appears to be blatant disregard for some teams and the rules.

Boom__Boom

LeoB wrote: »

What are they wired up for? Ordering the half time meal?;) From what I know they can draw his attention to "foul play" ie a strike on an opponent but not a technical free so he (McQuillan) was badly let down in many areas of the field. The umpires could previously draw the referees attention by moving away from the post and keeping their hand in the air. The linesmen on Sunday were simply disgraceful.

On the Cluxton push be Fermanagh I think the referee used common sense. It was not going to change the course of the game.

I am not G.A.A basher but ........... This has got to far with what appears to be blatant disregard for some teams and the rules.

I find that when doing linesman you have to be keep your eye on the ball/can't really track the off-the-ball action as much as when doing umpire, as with umpire the ball can often be up the other end of the pitch, whereas with linesman even if it goes to the other side of the pitch one quick long ball across and you can have a decision to make. Also when you're doing linesman you're moving up and down the sideline and need to keep an eye out for subs and coaching staff as well as other possible obstructions (random balls/gearbags/ waterbottles /physios/dogs/ kids playing/spectators etc) whereas with umpire you hardly have to move at all in comparison.
There's also the fact that there is 4 umpires to 2 linesmen. Currently for the intercounty games the linesmen are refs but I'd like to see 2 of the umpires be refs as well. It would give naughty defenders that bit more to worry about if there was a ref as umpire.

Another option would be to increase the number of linesmen to 4 (say as opposed to having 2 refs) with the pitch split in half - this would make it far easier for linesman to keep an eye out for off-the-ball action especially when the ball is down in the opposite corner of the field.

flasher0030

LeoB wrote: »

What are they wired up for? Ordering the half time meal?;) From what I know they can draw his attention to "foul play" ie a strike on an opponent but not a technical free so he (McQuillan) was badly let down in many areas of the field. The umpires could previously draw the referees attention by moving away from the post and keeping their hand in the air. The linesmen on Sunday were simply disgraceful.

On the Cluxton push be Fermanagh I think the referee used common sense. It was not going to change the course of the game.

I am not G.A.A basher but ........... This has got to far with what appears to be blatant disregard for some teams and the rules.

Eh???

elguapo

An antidote to the darkness. Mick Holden is a legend.

https://youtu.be/97iP0F56yZk?t=261

LeoB

flasher0030 wrote: »

Eh???

I get your drift I think, He would I think have given a free had there been 2 points in the game. But Fermanagh were never going to beat Dublin on that day. Yes it was a free and it was a mistake not giving it but sometimes teams who are getting the run around deserve a bit of a break. It was sporting

Jayop

No dark arts in that game, fair play lads.

tanko

"These incidents can look different from different angles". Good man Ciaran Whelan, what a load of Bo**ox. If Philly McMahon was from Ulster i can only imagine his reaction.
Will the Sunday game panel be frothing at the mouth about O mahonys rugby tackle on McMennamin like they did with Sean Cavanagh. Will they Fcuk?
No stink of any of the teams playing today, not a chance.

aveytare

tanko wrote: »

"These incidents can look different from different angles". Good man Ciaran Whelan, what a load of Bo**ox. If Philly McMahon was from Ulster i can only imagine his reaction.
Will the Sunday game panel be frothing at the mouth about O mahonys rugby tackle on McMennamin like they did with Sean Cavanagh. Will they Fcuk?
No stink of any of the teams playing today, not a chance.

Whelan's completely shameless.

STB.

aveytare wrote: »

Whelan's completely shameless.

He was unstoppable in his day though....

aveytare

STB. wrote: »

He was unstoppable in his day though....

I dare say Stephen O'Neill and Sean Cavanagh don't have nightmares about Whelan.

Jayop

Same old ****e, no bias there though. No sirree

Dirty Dingus McGee

STB. wrote: »

He was unstoppable in his day though....

He wasn't.

Offaly played Dublin in the 2001 Leinser Championship and Whelan was expected to run rings around Sean Grennan in the midfield as Grennan wasn't very mobile. Grennan knew this himself and right at the start of the game in an attempt to slow Whelan up Grennan mowed him with a belt and Whelan done nothing for the 20 minutes or so he was on and had to be taken off.

Whelan although a aquality player I never really liked him as he was always a great man to dish it out but he could never take it.

STB.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He wasn't.

Offaly played Dublin in the 2001 Leinser Championship and Whelan was expected to run rings around Sean Grennan in the midfield as Grennan wasn't very mobile. Grennan knew this himself and right at the start of the game in an attempt to slow Whelan up Grennan mowed him with a belt and Whelan done nothing for the 20 minutes or so he was on and had to be taken off.

Whelan although a aquality player I never really liked him as he was always a great man to dish it out but he could never take it.

Sorry Sean who ?

Whelan has 2 all stars to his name for good reason.

downthemiddle

STB. wrote: »

Sorry Sean who ?

Whelan has 2 all stars to his name for good reason.

And the same number of All Ireland medals as Sean Grennan.

Dirty Dingus McGee

downthemiddle wrote: »

And the same number of All Ireland medals as Sean Grennan.

He has less.

Grennan won a minor hurling all ireland in 1989.

BonnieSituation

Even as a Dub I never liked Whelan at all.

There was an incident against Wexford in 2008 (I think) that forever turned me off him on top of never really liking him anyway.

mayo.mick

[IMG][/img]

elguapo

mayo.mick wrote: »

[IMG][/img]

Photos of controversial incidents can sometimes be misleading; this one is not.

keeponhurling

2015 has been a very controversial year in GAA, with many incidents of diving, time-wasting, sledging, violence etc.
The black card came in, but we still saw lots of cynicism, lads perfectly happy to take a black for the team, and give another lad a chance to sub in.
In fact "the dark arts" dominated the year, arguably moreso than the football.

We have a great sport here, and it's not too late for these things to be nipped in the bud.

From the 2016 season, zero tolerence on all this sort of thing should be introduced. If lads know that a lengthy ban is waiting for them if they engage in any of these dark arts, it'll soon cut it out.
Nobody who trains all winter wants to be banned for the business end of the season.

In fact when very early in the season I saw a player each from Limerick and Clare hurlers red-carded, for innocuous but technically deserved red cards, I thought it boded well.
But as the season went on, lads couldn't get a red card no matter what they did, we even had a clear red ignored in the final!

Jayop

The worst is reds being rescinded for semi's and finals despite being entirely justified. It's madness.

STB.

downthemiddle wrote: »

And the same number of All Ireland medals as Sean Grennan.

Yes it is a travesty having come in after 95 and for the 13 years that he played with the Dubs that he didn't win an AI Medal.

In addition to the 2 All Stars, I suppose he can take some solace in the fact that he has 6 Leinster Senior Football Championship medals, one of which earned him the MOTM in 2006....against.....:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdg8zWMxo-0

Topcat32

Whats does Philly McMahon need to do to be banned? He has allready got away with biting, throwing headbutts, feigning injury and eye gouging, what will he do next??

paintitwhite

He may well be cited for eye gouging yet, if so his response will be interesting. If he accepts the punishment he would only miss NFL games but any other ban within 48 weeks would be doubled. In my view he'd be very liable to getting another ban within the timeframe and with the appeals process the way it currently is it makes sense for him to appeal if neccessary.

CurryFlavoured

Philly deserves a lengthy ban. Whether or not he actually gouged he shouldn't be messing his fingers around a fellas face, its clear his intentions were bad. I was never his biggest fan as a player but its sad that this crap taints what has been a great season for him.

Topcat32

I think he had an excellent season and is exactly what you want in a corner back but clearly there is a pattern of unacceptable behaviour. This isnt being helped by the GAA overturning bans and red cards. A possible difference this time is while players will generally shrug their shoulders at professional fouls, simulation and "all in" style confrontations, interference with eyes has possible life changing implications and will cause a lot of anger among players in general.

zetecescort

paintitwhite wrote: »

He may well be cited for eye gouging yet, if so his response will be interesting. If he accepts the punishment he would only miss NFL games but any other ban within 48 weeks would be doubled. In my view he'd be very liable to getting another ban within the timeframe and with the appeals process the way it currently is it makes sense for him to appeal if neccessary.

are bans not games based rather than time based nowadays?

paintitwhite

They are but if you get another suspension within 48 weeks your second ban will be doubled so if you are involved in anything for the rest of the season it would have devastating consequences.