Jobstown water protesters to be charged

Little CuChulainn

The Muppet wrote: »

I don't know .

Yes you do.

ohnonotgmail

conorh91 wrote: »

If another 10 people repeated another 10 times that false imprisonment has nothing to do with blocking roads per se, people would still conflate the two.

False imprisonment relates to the intentional or reckless detention of a person within a confined space. Traffic diversions and busy streets have nothing to do with it. If you detach yourself from your personal opinions on this, you'll see what a straightforward rule applies here.

they cant hear you. the fingers in their ears are blocking the signal.

end of the road

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it is not relevant to the criminal charges these thugs are facing. it doesnt matter where she was going, false imprisonment is false imprisonment.

they are not thugs, until such time as the court says otherwise by finding them guilty. i see no false imprisonment here

ohnonotgmail

end of the road wrote: »

they are not thugs, until such time as the court says otherwise by finding them guilty. i see no false imprisonment here

of course you dont.

end of the road

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

nay, nay and thrice nay.

yes, yes and yes

ohnonotgmail

end of the road wrote: »

yes, yes and yes

BOOM!

arayess

CFlat wrote: »

I think what happened yesterday is manna from heaven for Paul Murphy. He doesn't care about the possible court case in fact he sounded to me quite happy about it. It's just rasied his profile even more.

Im reluctant to say but I think the authourites have made a mistake here. As they would say on Boards when someone is acting the dick, don't feed the troll. He should just be ignored. It's laughable that his popularity is based on trying to save people 60euro or 160euro per year on a vital resource like water. Most people, including myself, would spend that on a couple of nights out.

I would be embarressed to say I supported him and his followers.

BTW the implimentation and setup of IW has been a monuental f**k up since it started, but that doesn't make the concept of paying for water a bad thing.

sorry to burst your bubble
But it's not 64e a quarter - the cap is 64e at quarter. the cap is temporary.

My real bill was 150e the past two quarters. I've had some relatives staying with me for the past while so there were 2 adults and 3 minors in the house.
That's 600e a year and its' reasonable to assume those prices will go up , as they have with previous stuff like bin charges etc..
the claim from murphy and the like that families will be paying 1000e a year isn't that far of reality.

that said , I don't agree with murphys antics. I think he forgets he is a TD now and not a militant student anymore.
he is an embarrassment to the anti-water campaign. But like all campaigns the socialists try to hijack it for their own agenda, which is a shame..

I'd like him jailed but i feel it'll give him sainthood so dropping the charges would be a better thing.

mickydoomsux

arayess wrote: »

sorry to burst your bubble
But it's not 64e a quarter - the cap is 64e at quarter. the cap is temporary.

My real bill was 150e the past two quarters. I've had some relatives staying with me for the past while so there were 2 adults and 3 minors in the house.
That's 600e a year and its' reasonable to assume those prices will go up , as they have with previous stuff like bin charges etc..
the claim from murphy and the like that families will be paying 1000e a year isn't that far of reality.

that said , I don't agree with murphys antics. I think he forgets he is a TD now and not a militant student anymore.
he is an embarrassment to the anti-water campaign. But like all campaigns the socialists try to hijack it for their own agenda, which is a shame..

I'd like him jailed but i feel it'll give him sainthood so dropping the charges would be a better thing.

Imagine that. People having to pay properly for a valuable commodity that they use every single day.

When will the madness end?

rubberdiddies

CFlat wrote: »

It's laughable that his popularity is based on trying to save people 60euro or 160euro per year on a vital resource like water. Most people, including myself, would spend that on a couple of nights out.

I think this kinda shows the disconnect between those that have money and those that don't.

Most people don't spend that much on a night out. Many young people, students etc may well do but the people who struggle to put food on the table certainly don't. We are talking about 10's if not 100's of thousands of people in that category.

These are the people turning to those like Paul Murphy for help. Like him or not, people like Paul Murphy are the vocal opposition to issues such as this. Without such people the government would do as they please.

mickydoomsux

rubberdiddies wrote: »

but the people who struggle to put food on the table certainly don't. We are talking about 10's if not 100's of thousands of people in that category.

I've encountered no one like that so they can't be all that prevalent.

I've encountered plenty who claim to be in that situation.

arayess

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Imagine that. People having to pay properly for a valuable commodity that they use every single day.

When will the madness end?

well it's not that straighforward.

paying for it isn't a problem, the method of payment is.

without rehashing the past ,

It's a flat tax which is regressive and hits the poorest hardest.
There should be a fairer way

Given the amount of tax we do pay with USC etc,, that it would be argued that we need better financial management in the state rather than another round of taxes.

IW is a mess. The level of cronyism is disgusting .
Broadsheet had a good article on how the top folk in IW are connected by previous employment. Tierney has a history of failure yet he is given the top job paying oodles of cash.
i haven't even gone into the anglo / DOB quagmire which is disgusting.

I have concerns over privatisation of the water. FG rejected a green party proposal to have a referendum protecting our natural resources. this could have been shoe horned in the same-sex referendum with little extra cost. but it wasn't. cos privatisation is the wet dream of the IMF and our free market betters.

Finally Stephen Donnelly - who i'm sure most people will agree he is one of our best TDs - gave a detailed account how IW as it stands is a waste of money. any monies taken in by IW are only paying for the collection of that money.

Sure what is not to like about IW ?
Sign me up!
in fact sign me up twice ....:rolleyes:

go back to the tattoo thread , your arguments there were more reasonable.:pac:

end of the road

arayess wrote: »

sorry to burst your bubble
But it's not 64e a quarter - the cap is 64e at quarter. the cap is temporary.

My real bill was 150e the past two quarters. I've had some relatives staying with me for the past while so there were 2 adults and 3 minors in the house.
That's 600e a year and its' reasonable to assume those prices will go up , as they have with previous stuff like bin charges etc..
the claim from murphy and the like that families will be paying 1000e a year isn't that far of reality.

that said , I don't agree with murphys antics. I think he forgets he is a TD now and not a militant student anymore.
he is an embarrassment to the anti-water campaign. But like all campaigns the socialists try to hijack it for their own agenda, which is a shame..

I'd like him jailed but i feel it'll give him sainthood so dropping the charges would be a better thing.

jailed for what. he hasn't done anything

Graham

end of the road wrote: »

jailed for what. he hasn't done anything

That's probably better decided by a Court who will probably be in a much better position to make that decision than you are.

mickydoomsux

arayess wrote: »

well it's not that straighforward.

paying for it isn't a problem, the method of payment is.
It's a flat tax which is regressive and hits the poorest hardest.

Some would argue that a flat tax is the very definition of fairness.

Everyone pays exactly the same per unit on what they use. What could be fairer?

end of the road

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Imagine that. People having to pay properly for a valuable commodity that they use every single day.

When will the madness end?

its not a valuable commodity. its a right that cannot be bought and sold. people cannot afford to pay twice for it. they should refuse as they all ready pay for it via tax

rubberdiddies

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I've encountered no one like that so they can't be all that prevalent.

I've encountered plenty who claim to be in that situation.

Again kinda proves my point showing the disconnect. I'm not judging, just saying that the bubble we live in by living comfortably doesn't mean that life outside that bubble isn't tough for thousands of families.

There are plenty of organisations both local and national that you can talk to to see the families living on the breadline.

arayess

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Some would argue that a flat tax is the very definition of fairness.

Everyone pays exactly the same per unit on what they use. What could be fairer?

the richer (which is sometimes me btw) pay a larger part than the less salaried.
I' d agree with you if this was chocolate cake but water is a necessity and essential for life and health. I think that in itself makes it a special case.

end of the road

arayess wrote: »

well it's not that straighforward.

paying for it isn't a problem, the method of payment is.

without rehashing the past ,

It's a flat tax which is regressive and hits the poorest hardest.
There should be a fairer way

Given the amount of tax we do pay with USC etc,, that it would be argued that we need better financial management in the state rather than another round of taxes.

IW is a mess. The level of cronyism is disgusting .
Broadsheet had a good article on how the top folk in IW are connected by previous employment. Tierney has a history of failure yet he is given the top job paying oodles of cash.
i haven't even gone into the anglo / DOB quagmire which is disgusting.

I have concerns over privatisation of the water. FG rejected a green party proposal to have a referendum protecting our natural resources. this could have been shoe horned in the same-sex referendum with little extra cost. but it wasn't. cos privatisation is the wet dream of the IMF and our free market betters.

Finally Stephen Donnelly - who i'm sure most people will agree he is one of our best TDs - gave a detailed account how IW as it stands is a waste of money. any monies taken in by IW are only paying for the collection of that money.

Sure what is not to like about IW ?
Sign me up!
in fact sign me up twice ....

go back to the tattoo thread , your arguments there were more reasonable.

exactly and once it is privatized, rates will quadruple or more, and the infrastructure will remain the same, constantly getting older and creaking until it cannot cope anymore, which any attempt to do it must be stopped at all costs

Graham

arayess wrote: »

the richer (which is sometimes me btw) pay a larger part than the less salaried.
I' d agree with you if this was chocolate cake but water is a necessity and essential for life and health. I think that in itself makes it a special case.

This thread isn't about the water charge, it's about a bunch of protesters potentially facing charges/court for their actions during a 'protest'.

arayess

Graham wrote: »

This thread isn't about the water charge, it's about a bunch of protesters potentially facing charges/court for their actions during a 'protest'.

i know , my long winded answer was on topic but some of my "extra detail" derailed it.
I'm sorry.

mickydoomsux

rubberdiddies wrote: »

There are plenty of organisations both local and national that you can talk to to see the families living on the breadline.

Yeah, i've heard plenty of statements from these organizations, usually with a plea for funding.

Charity is big business.

There are undoubtedly people struggling out there but i think they are in the tiny minority and it is our misery-porn obsessed news industry along with dishonest, money hungry NGOs that make it look like there are people starving to death in the streets by the hundreds.

Expecting people to pay for a vital utility, that has been criminally underfunded for decades due to the fact that it wasn't as "sexy" as doling out billions in welfare and other benefits, is hardly unreasonable.

20Cent

A few of the posters here could do with a few weeks living in the dole in Jobstown. They'd be rioting if the broadband went down never mind the relentless cuts and abuse people there have suffered.

mickydoomsux

20Cent wrote: »

A few of the posters here could do with a few weeks living in the dole in Jobstown. They'd be rioting if the broadband went down never mind the relentless cuts and abuse people there have suffered.

Cuts to what exactly?

Don't clearly remember there being any Jobstown specific cuts announced in any of the recent budgets. Maybe i just missed them

conorh91

20Cent wrote: »

A few of the posters here could do with a few weeks living in the dole in Jobstown. They'd be rioting if the broadband went down never mind the relentless cuts and abuse people there have suffered.

A few of the people protesting in Jobstown could do with a few weeks of productive employment. They'd be able to pay fair contributions to the State, support their own families, and have some of the dignity that, according to the youtube videos, is seriously lacking among them.

Naturally, most people in Jobstown like anywhere are probably decent hardworking people. Imagine how galling it must be to go to work in the morning, and pay your way in life, when your neighbour is crawling out of bed at midday, wondering how to make an eejit of himself on youtube.

If I feel sympathy for anyone, it is hardworking people in those areas making the best of themselves.

That includes the graduates of the programme that received their diplomas from the Minister on the day in question. Compare and contrast the two crowds.

end of the road

conorh91 wrote: »

A few of the people protesting in Jobstown could do with a few weeks of productive employment. They'd be able to pay fair contributions to the State, support their own families, and have some of the dignity that, according to the youtube videos, is seriously lacking among them.

Naturally, most people in Jobstown like anywhere are probably decent hardworking people. Imagine how galling it must be to go to work in the morning, and pay your way in life, when your neighbour is crawling out of bed at midday, wondering how to make an eejit of himself on youtube.

If I feel sympathy for anyone, it is hardworking people in those areas making the best of themselves.

That includes the graduates of the programme that received their diplomas from the Minister on the day in question. Compare and contrast the two crowds.

while i get your point, maybe the person getting out of bed at 12 works his or her job at a different time of day. not everyone works 9 to 5.

mickydoomsux

end of the road wrote: »

while i get your point, maybe the person getting out of bed at 12 works his or her job at a different time of day. not everyone works 9 to 5.

That's not what he meant and you know it.

end of the road

mickydoomsux wrote: »

That's not what he meant and you know it.

not everyone works 9 to 5 and thats the end of it

The Muppet

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Yes you do.

Oh no I don't

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

exactly and once it is privatized, rates will quadruple or more, and the infrastructure will remain the same, constantly getting older and creaking until it cannot cope anymore, which any attempt to do it must be stopped at all costs

But the infrastructure is being upgraded as I type! Who knows what'll happen in a few years time? Why are you so sure it'll be privatized and rates soar?

Lantus

OldGoat wrote: »

False imprisonment:


http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0015.html


Seems pretty clear to me. Was the minister detained? You can argue circumstances all you want and even use the witness box as a platform for railing against austerity but the only question to be answered in court is, "Was the person detained and was that detention intentional or reckless?".

Presumably when I was stuck in traffic I was falsely imprisoned as well. They knew traffic levels were rising and not building more roads would cause entrapment. It was intentional.

Protesters shouldn't of done it but this is OTT. Its all about making sure ordinary people remember their place and remain placid.