Jobstown water protesters to be charged

gladrags

Graham wrote: »

If only there were some way to change the government that the entire population could participate in. :rolleyes:

That depends on whose "government" you are referring to.

Kenny has no overall mandate,and his party never had.

Still.

There goes "democracy".

billyhead

I looked at the you tube videos and am not surprised people will face public order charges and false imprisonment charges over this. The way the crowd protested wasn't very civilised and to prevent her from leaving in her car is bad form. She must have been very nervous that things could have escalated into physical violence. Also why are a lot of the protesters holding up their mobile phone recording the event. Looks like they were hoping the gardai would put a foot wrong and possible physically assault someone so they could take him or her to the cleaners. If that's the case there a bunch of scumbags although I am not surprised by some of the people who live out in that area of Dublin.

Graham

gladrags wrote: »

That depends on whose "government" you are referring to.

Kenny has no overall mandate,and his party never had.

Still.

There goes "democracy".

Nothing to stop you standing at the next elections.

gladrags

Graham wrote: »

Nothing to stop you standing at the next elections.

With a "New Politics" manifesto.?

michael999999

gladrags wrote: »

With a "New Politics" manifesto.?

Contact Denis first, i hear he's great at funding political parties!

When your in, just throw him a few Gov contracts and your both happy!

voter1983

Roll on the trial. I can't wait to see the smirk wiped off Murphy's face when he and his rent-a-mob are led away in chains!

voter1983

voter1983 wrote: »

Roll on the trial. I can't wait to see the smirk wiped off Murphy's face when he and his rent-a-mob are led away in chains!

While I'm not a Paul Murphy fan, I just want to see justice done. The events of that day were a new low for Ireland and ones I never want to see here again.

drdeadlift

Nobody will be jailed.

Iwasfrozen

drdeadlift wrote: »

Nobody will be jailed.

Famous last words. I'm hoping for a fine and hefty jail term.

drdeadlift

Im unbiased.I dont really care.Vut thats my guess at the oucome.
But seeing the links between the dpp and lab i could be wrong.

Graham

drdeadlift wrote: »

But seeing the links between the dpp and lab i could be wrong.

Neither the DPP or the Labour Party get to pass sentences.

I'm sure there will be a conspiracy theorist along any second to refute that fact.

drdeadlift

Graham wrote: »

Neither the DPP or the Labour Party get to pass sentences.

I'm sure there will be a conspiracy theorist along any second to refute that fact.

But they do get ppl into the courtroom.

NorthStars

drdeadlift wrote: »

But they do get ppl into the courtroom.

It helps when the niece of Brendan Howlin is the one making the decision to bring it to court.....

JustTheOne

NorthStars wrote: »

It helps when the niece of Brendan Howlin is the one making the decision to bring it to court.....

Didn't take long.

michael999999

NorthStars wrote: »

It helps when the niece of Brendan Howlin is the one making the decision to bring it to court.....

Could we post her a copy of The Moriarty Tribunal?

NorthStars

JustTheOne wrote: »

Didn't take long.

Very observant.;)

NorthStars

michael999999 wrote: »

Could we post her a copy of The Moriarty Tribunal?

No point.

JustTheOne

NorthStars wrote: »

Very observant.;)

Hardy hah.

222233

Totally agree with any charges if this had happened to anyone else who didn't happen to be involved in government there would be various radio stations face booking about how awful it is etc. Water aside, it's wrong either way. What happened to peaceful protesting

AlekSmart

NorthStars wrote: »

It helps when the niece of Brendan Howlin is the one making the decision to bring it to court.....

Presumably,Deputy Murphy's Legal Team will be able to move to have any charges struck-out because of this familial connection.

I would imagine that once the Deputy's Lawyers can prove that the prosecution is compromised by Ms Howlin's relationship,the rest will be easy....;)

NorthStars

AlekSmart wrote: »

Presumably,Deputy Murphy's Legal Team will be able to move to have any charges struck-out because of this familial connection.

I would imagine that once the Deputy's Lawyers can prove that the prosecution is compromised by Ms Howlin's relationship,the rest will be easy....;)

There's a reason why labour are at 6% in the latest polls.
If this connection is proven or tested in court they'll be on zero....
It never ceases to amaze me how this government has taken the massive goodwill they were given by people in 2011, myself included, and thrown it back in the electorate's faces.

Streetwalker

NorthStars wrote: »

There's a reason why labour are at 6% in the latest polls.
If this connection is proven or tested in court they'll be on zero....
It never ceases to amaze me how this government has taken the massive goodwill they were given by people in 2011, myself included, and thrown it back in the electorate's faces.

They had a massive mandate to change the way the country is run for everyone of our citizens good and they just continued on where FF left off with their noses in the trough.

michael999999

Streetwalker wrote: »

They had a massive mandate to change the way the country is run for everyone of our citizens good and they just continued on where FF left off with their noses in the trough.

And pulled Denis into the trough with them!

Billy86

Streetwalker wrote: »

They had a massive mandate to change the way the country is run for everyone of our citizens good and they just continued on where FF left off with their noses in the trough.

Yep, couldn't agree anymore. The country, unemployment and economically especially, is every bit as bad now as it was four years ago. What's worse is there have been no major social reforms either, no major changes made that would have Ireland considered a trendsetter or garner us any global attention.

Graham

NorthStars wrote: »

If this connection is proven or tested in court they'll be on zero....

I know this is your usual misdirect, redirect when you've nothing else but...

Does the family connection really need to be proved in court? It's probably already accepted that the connection exists.

Apart from your assumption that this is automatically grounds for a mistrial have you anything at all?

gladrags

Graham wrote: »

I know this is your usual misdirect, redirect when you've nothing else but...

Does the family connection really need to be proved in court? It's probably already accepted that the connection exists.

Apart from your assumption that this is automatically grounds for a mistrial have you anything at all?

There are a other well founded issues surrounding this issue.

And the most fundamental as far as I can tell,is the ridiculous absurdity that no one has been charged yet,unless you call trial by media a legal entity.

A very dangerous precedent,all of which in the first instance indicates,the potency and damage,the water protests have had on exposing Kenny and Burtons baseless ideology.

Graham

gladrags wrote: »

There are a other well founded issues surrounding this issue.

That's a lot of issues.

gladrags wrote: »

And the most fundamental as far as I can tell,is the ridiculous absurdity that no one has been charged yet,unless you call trial by media a legal entity.

I just took a really in-depth look through the constitution and all relevant legislation.

Brace yourself now, it sounds like this may come as a shock:

It's not a crime to be related to someone.

gladrags

[Deleted User] wrote: »

While I'm not a Paul Murphy fan, I just want to see justice done. The events of that day were a new low for Ireland and ones I never want to see here again.

Fortunately,it is not for mob rule to decide in what format,justice is meted out.

We have had enough of that form of rabble in this country.

Your claim that this is a "new low" for this country is an insult to the many who have suffered injustice and false imprisonment,as a result of a baying mob.

gladrags

Graham wrote: »

That's a lot of issues.



I just took a really in-depth look through the constitution and all relevant legislation.

Brace yourself now, it sounds like this may come as a shock:

It's not a crime to be related to someone.

Were does it say in the constitution or anywere else that legally,judgement precedes an individuals right to innocence.?

It must have been a failed state constitution,because it most certainly was not the Irish constitution.

Satriale

gladrags wrote: »

Fortunately,it is not for mob rule to decide in what format,justice is meted out.

We have had enough of that form of rabble in this country.

Your claim that this is a "new low" for this country is an insult to the many who have suffered injustice and false imprisonment,as a result of a baying mob.

They are gone beyond a joke at this stage GL, there was one of them looking for the protesters to be given head injuries to teach them a lesson a while ago.

Wishing violence on people, it just doesnt make sense to me.

gladrags

Graham wrote: »

Neither the DPP or the Labour Party get to pass sentences.

I'm sure there will be a conspiracy theorist along any second to refute that fact.

In reality,it is not so much about who was and is judged,it is about who is not.

But I am sure another "file was sent to the DPP".

Graham

gladrags wrote: »

In reality,it is not so much about who was and is judged,it is about who is not.

But I am sure another "file was sent to the DPP".

For their sake, I really hope you're not opening for the defence at the Johnstown protesters trials.

gladrags

Satriale wrote: »

They are gone beyond a joke at this stage GL, there was one of them looking for the protesters to be given head injuries to teach them a lesson a while ago.

Wishing violence on people, it just doesnt make sense to me.

It is no conspiracy that there is a section of our society that willingly support trial by media,in order to uphold a failed political ideology.

Maybe its just that they actually believe what they read in the papers,full stop.

Graham

gladrags wrote: »

It is no conspiracy that there is a section of our society that willingly support trial by media,in order to uphold a failed political ideology.

Maybe its just that they actually believe what they read in the papers,full stop.

Don't worry, there's plenty more of us that will be happy enough to see a trial in court.

conorh91

gladrags wrote: »

It is no conspiracy that there is a section of our society that willingly support trial by media,in order to uphold a failed political ideology.

Maybe its just that they actually believe what they read in the papers,full stop.

This isn't quite trial by media though.

Many of us think these protesters are thugs and layabouts regardless of the Jobstown incident. We thought it long before Jobstown happened. It isn't a legal determination, it's a personal opinion of people who are perfectly content to make themselves look stupid on social media at every opportunity.

Furthermore, the facts are quite undisputed here. Paul Murphy and his mob do not deny surrounding Joan Burton's car, chanting and baying at her. None of them seem to be denying that the offence of false imprisonment can be made out as the law stands, even if they think it's a ridiculous law.

There seems to be very little in dispute her, factually speaking.

A bunch of lawless thugs have just formed a different opinion to the rest of us: i.e., they seem to believe they should be allowed to detain a Government minister with impunity.

Brendan Bendar

Bottom line to all this.

Let the law take its course.

There is plenty of evidence of the events available, if the law was broken, charge the perps and let's get on with things.

There can't be one law for one and another law for another.

That's how society starts to break down.

michael999999

conorh91 wrote: »

This isn't quite trial by media though.

Many of us think these protesters are thugs and layabouts regardless of the Jobstown incident. We thought it long before Jobstown happened. It isn't a legal determination, it's a personal opinion of people who are perfectly content to make themselves look stupid on social media at every opportunity.

Furthermore, the facts are quite undisputed here. Paul Murphy and his mob do not deny surrounding Joan Burton's car, chanting and baying at her. None of them seem to be denying that the offence of false imprisonment can be made out as the law stands, even if they think it's a ridiculous law.

There seems to be very little in dispute her, factually speaking.

A bunch of lawless thugs have just formed a different opinion to the rest of us: i.e., they seem to believe they should be allowed to detain a Government minister with impunity.

But yet you'll defend Denis o brien at every turn, because according to you he has never been convicted of anything!

Hypocrite!

conorh91

michael999999 wrote: »

But yet you'll defend Denis o brien at every turn, because according to you he has never been convicted of anything!

Hypocrite!

I believe in fair procedures before the constitutionally-appointed courts for every person, whether for an asylum seeker, a businessman, or an attention-seeking politician.

If Paul Murphy disputes being part of a group that detained Joan Burton, then let him dispute it. As far as I know, he does not.

Graham

michael999999 wrote: »

But yet you'll defend Denis o brien at every turn, because according to you he has never been convicted of anything!

Hypocrite!

1) I didn't see anyone on this thread defending DOB
2) 'but did you see what Denis did' is hardly the best defence strategy for those facing Court for the events in Jobstown.

AudreyHepburn

Merrion wrote: »

Not even vaguely - I am providing a counter example to the "violence never solves anything" newspeak. Basically there is nuance here - maybe their actions were right or maybe wrong, and a court is a good place to use the current agreed interpretation of right and wrong to test this.

That said - it's pretty close to what the civil war was about, no?

It's not even close.

The Rising, The War for Independence and the Civil War were about freeing the country from oppression and giving us back what was stolen.

These so-called 'prostests' are at the stage just about sticking it to the man, being as violent and intimidating as possible toward people just doing their jobs, and expecting to be handed everything on a silver platter whilst paying for nothing.

I don't deny some people are genuinely struggling of course, but the vast majority of these protesters, imo, are not part of that group.

Brendan Bendar

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

It's not even close.

The Rising, The War for Independence and the Civil War were about freeing the country from oppression and giving us back what was stolen.

These so-called 'prostests' are at the stage just about sticking it to the man, being as violent and intimidating as possible toward people just doing their jobs, and expecting to be handed everything on a silver platter whilst paying for nothing.

I don't deny some people are genuinely struggling of course, but the vast majority of these protesters, imo, are not part of that group.

Well said, saying it as it is.

On the money in my opinion.

gladrags

conorh91 wrote: »

This isn't quite trial by media though.

Many of us think these protesters are thugs and layabouts regardless of the Jobstown incident. We thought it long before Jobstown happened. It isn't a legal determination, it's a personal opinion of people who are perfectly content to make themselves look stupid on social media at every opportunity.

Furthermore, the facts are quite undisputed here. Paul Murphy and his mob do not deny surrounding Joan Burton's car, chanting and baying at her. None of them seem to be denying that the offence of false imprisonment can be made out as the law stands, even if they think it's a ridiculous law.

There seems to be very little in dispute her, factually speaking.

A bunch of lawless thugs have just formed a different opinion to the rest of us: i.e., they seem to believe they should be allowed to detain a Government minister with impunity.

Strange how you rush to judgement when it comes to ordinary people,prior to charges being applied,or before they are given the benefitof a fair trial,which is everyones democratic right.

And then you relentlessly defend an individual,who has the capacity to influence justice,and will apparently use it to openly threaten the fundamentals of democracy.

Even by your poor standards of calling ordinary people thugs and lawless,should we apply this to the lawless white collar thugs,who so ardently sank this country,and caused misery and deprevation to millions.

And who are still roaming free to reoffend,and to repeat what many regarded as treason.?

Denis might know,he deals with them regularly.

Graham

gladrags wrote: »

Strange how you rush to judgement when it comes to ordinary people,prior to charges being applied,or before they are given the benefitof a fair trial,which is everyones democratic right.

Looks like you're confusing yourself there gladrags, let me highlight the relevant part for you.

conorh91 wrote: »

I believe in fair procedures before the constitutionally-appointed courts for every person, whether for an asylum seeker, a businessman, or an attention-seeking politician.

michael999999

Graham wrote: »

Looks like you're confusing yourself there gladrags, let me highlight the relevant part for you.

Have they been charged over the weekend?

Graham

michael999999 wrote: »

Have they been charged over the weekend?

I didn't see anyone mention it, just that they'd like to see it happen so they're held accountable. That sounds fair enough to me.

conorh91

gladrags wrote: »

Strange how you rush to judgement when it comes to ordinary people,prior to charges being applied,or before they are given the benefitof a fair trial,which is everyones democratic right.

I am not typing this out again, because none of you read anything except one another's posts.

conorh91 wrote: »

This isn't quite trial by media though.

Many of us think these protesters are thugs and layabouts regardless of the Jobstown incident.

...

Furthermore, the facts are quite undisputed here. Paul Murphy and his mob do not deny surrounding Joan Burton's car, chanting and baying at her. None of them seem to be denying that the offence of false imprisonment can be made out as the law stands, even if they think it's a ridiculous law.

Denis O'Brien disputes the facts and is presumed innocent on questions of criminal behaviour (you're free to think he's a thug)

Paul Murphy does not dispute being part of the baying mob, and it is that reason I think he is a thug. Being a thug, in someone's opinion, isn't a legal issue.

And stop trying to make everything about Denis O'Brien. It gets boring.

michael999999

Graham wrote: »

I didn't see anyone mention it, just that they'd like to see it happen so they're held accountable. That sounds fair enough to me.

As would the investigation into The Moriarty Tribunal and a file sent to the DPP.

No charges have been made in either yet.

Yet we have posters looking for Murphy to be hung, drawn and quartered and at the same time saying in other threads that Denis o Brien is totally innocent as he hasn't been charged with anything.

A bit of consistency at least!

Graham

michael999999 wrote: »

As would the investigation into The Moriarty Tribunal and a file sent to the DPP.

No charges have been made in either yet.

Yet we have posters looking for Murphy to be hung, drawn and quartered and at the same time saying in other threads that Denis o Brien is totally innocent as he hasn't been charged with anything.

A bit of consistency at least!

Top marks for the amateur dramatics but if you read the thread again you'll find most people are supportive of a court appearance to face charges.

I'm not even going to get into your obsession with the completely unrelated DOB accusations.

gladrags

Graham wrote: »

Looks like you're confusing yourself there gladrags, let me highlight the relevant part for you.

You are being exremely selective,here is the gist of the post.

"Many of us think these protesters are thugs and layabouts regardless of the Jobstown incident. We thought it long before Jobstown happened. It isn't a legal determination, it's a personal opinion of people who are perfectly content to make themselves look stupid on social media at every opportunity.

Furthermore, the facts are quite undisputed here. Paul Murphy and his mob do not deny surrounding Joan Burton's car, chanting and baying at her. None of them seem to be denying that the offence of false imprisonment can be made out as the law stands, even if they think it's a ridiculous law.

There seems to be very little in dispute her, factually speaking."

The facts are that no one has been charged,and are therfor innocent.

Yet they are called thugs and gangs,and mobs.

A personal opinion suggesting guilt,is just that,a personal opinion.

They are still innocent.

Graham

gladrags wrote: »

They are still innocent.

Yup, until/unless they are found guilty in court. Coincidentally, that's exactly what's being advocated.

Court.

See that, on it's own. Court. No mention of being hung drawn and quartered. Just court.