Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Jobstown water protesters to be charged

Options
1…1112141617…45

Comments

  • Options
    #392
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    NorthStars wrote: »
    What crime are you referring to?
    Clique?

    Is there a reason you're now resorting to riddles?


  • Options
    #393
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Congratulations, you've successfully gone from reasoned argument, through contradictory statement straight to simple insult in a few pages.

    Its a bit rich to falsely imply that others are guilty of an offence or crime,and then accuse others of using insults.

    Is that not an insult to those who you deny the right to a fair trial.?


  • Options
    #394
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    NorthStars wrote: »
    What crime are you referring to?

    Whichever one you were referring to here:
    NorthStars wrote: »
    Maybe I'll pop in to my local Garda station and ask them to investigate.
    The blank expression would be priceless.


  • Options
    #395
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    NorthStars wrote: »
    You're good with the auld semantics ok, I'll give you that.

    Will anyone in AGS be investigating the member of the DPP's office who's closely related to Brendan Howlin and how that relationship may have influenced the decision to bring cases to court?

    Any whistleblowers around? Or do they all keep their heads down now?

    On that, would that position have been been achieved after a long series of interviews, and selection process, with relevant academic qualifications for the role, or is it a politically appointed one?

    Anyone know?


  • Options
    #396
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Banjo String wrote: »
    On that, would that position have been been achieved after a long series of interviews, and selection process, with relevant academic qualifications for the role, or is it a politically appointed one?

    Anyone know?

    There's no suggestion a crime has been committed, the entire smokescreen appears to be one might have been because there's a family connection.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #397
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Graham wrote: »
    There's no suggestion a crime has been committed, the entire smokescreen appears to be one might have been because there's a family connection.
    I never said there was a crime, and it doesn't answer my question.

    Besides, that's not the only family connection around here though. And seeing as Murphy's not been officially charged yet, this is relevant.
    The Garda Commissioner is defending the appointment of her husband to a team investigating alleged leaks of information to journalists.
    http://www.newstalk.com/reader/47.301/51674/0/

    Transparency, and an end to nepotism and corruption.


  • Options
    #398
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Transparency

    It appears they're already making quick progress with the investigation.
    A garda superintendent has already been arrested and questioned as part of the probe.


  • Options
    #399
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    Speaking of trapping people in their cars, or false imprisonment as it's known now.

    Has anyone been charged with trapping that little hitler and ex minister for justice, Shatter, in his car outside Leinster House recently?

    Remember? The time he heard there was a protest at the main gate and decided to drive straight into it instead of using the usual entrance TD's use?

    The time when he ran straight into the chamber and started whinging about the terrible job AGS were doing to allow that to happen to him.

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAAahUKEwic2r7ImqvHAhXhFNsKHYY5CUQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fshatter-criticises-thuggery-of-protesters-trapping-him-in-car-1.2269771&ei=cUDPVdzdDeGp7AaG86SgBA&usg=AFQjCNGW2H6JsHsVi0m9NC_OkMd_EzyCYQ


  • Options
    #400
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    NorthStars wrote: »
    Speaking of trapping people in their cars, or false imprisonment

    Good to see you're at least conceding that point.


  • Options
    #401
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    NorthStars wrote: »
    Speaking of trapping people in their cars, or false imprisonment as it's known now.

    Has anyone been charged with trapping that little hitler and ex minister for justice, Shatter, in his car outside Leinster House recently?

    Remember? The time he heard there was a protest at the main gate and decided to drive straight into it instead of using the usual entrance TD's use?

    The time when he ran straight into the chamber and started whinging about the terrible job AGS were doing to allow that to happen to him.

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAAahUKEwic2r7ImqvHAhXhFNsKHYY5CUQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fshatter-criticises-thuggery-of-protesters-trapping-him-in-car-1.2269771&ei=cUDPVdzdDeGp7AaG86SgBA&usg=AFQjCNGW2H6JsHsVi0m9NC_OkMd_EzyCYQ

    I believe that the difference is that he and other TDs and Senators affected, were able to leave their vehicles and return to the safety of the Dail. There were arrests made and I'm sure that they will be dealt with in due course.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #402
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Graham wrote: »
    It appears they're already making quick progress with the investigation.

    Thanks for answering those.

    Any chance on making a stab at this one please?
    Banjo String wrote: »
    On that, would that position have been been achieved after a long series of interviews, and selection process, with relevant academic qualifications for the role, or is it a politically appointed one?

    Anyone know?


  • Options
    #403
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Thanks for answering those.

    Any chance on making a stab at this one please?

    It appears that you're suggesting a senior member of the Gardai should not be appointed to any role. That suggestion appears to be based on purely political reasons.


  • Options
    #404
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Graham wrote: »
    It appears that you're suggesting a senior member of the Gardai should not be appointed to any role. That suggestion appears to be based on purely political reasons.

    Is Elizabeth Howlin a senior member of the Garda now:confused:

    The positio she holds in the DPP, was it a government appointed one do you know?


  • Options
    #405
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Is Elizabeth Howlin a senior member of the Garda now:confused:

    The positio she holds in the DPP, was it a government appointed one do you know?

    You were complaining about the composition/selection of the "team investigating alleged leaks of information to journalists" in your attempts to muddy the waters around the discussion of the prosecution of protestors.

    It's fascinating to watch you broaden the mud slinging as the argument you are making is taken to pieces.


  • Options
    #406
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Graham wrote: »
    You were complaining about the composition/selection of the "team investigating alleged leaks of information to journalists" in your attempts to muddy the waters around the discussion of the prosecution of protestors.

    It's fascinating to watch you broaden the mud slinging as the argument you are making is taken to pieces.

    Someone hasn't been following the 'argument' very closely, and even more interesting, they flat out haven't answered the question put to them on four occasions now.


  • Options
    #407
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Someone hasn't been following the 'argument' very closely, and even more interesting, they flat out haven't answered the question put to them on four occasions now.

    I think (If I can pick out the specific) attempt at misdirection/mudslinging that you're referring to, you're suggesting there are people in the DPP that aren't qualified to be in those positions?


  • Options
    #408
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Graham wrote: »
    I think (If I can pick out the specific) attempt at misdirection/mudslinging that you're referring to, you're suggesting there are people in the DPP that aren't qualified to be in those positions?

    Most people just don't understand the process from investigation to prosecution and how many hands an investigation file goes through before it even gets to the D.P.P. Then once she has it she has to send it back for any clarifications, errors or omissions to be addressed and it goes through the first process again. People simply look at the time it takes and assume incompetence.


  • Options
    #409
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Most people just don't understand the process from investigation to prosecution and how many hands an investigation file goes through before it even gets to the D.P.P. Then once she has it she has to send it back for any clarifications, errors or omissions to be addressed and it goes through the first process again. People simply look at the time it takes and assume incompetence.

    I think there are also people who deliberately choose not to understand so that they may try and cast doubt on the judicial process when a case appears that doesn't support their cause. We've had accusations levelled towards the Gardai, the DPP and the Government, it will be the Judiciary and back to the Gardai again shortly then it will be onto the Press/media for falsely representing the whole thing.


  • Options
    #410
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    Graham wrote: »
    I think there are also people who deliberately choose not to understand so that they may try and cast doubt on the judicial process when a case appears that doesn't support their cause. We've had accusations levelled towards the Gardai, the DPP and the Government, it will be the Judiciary and back to the Gardai again shortly then it will be onto the Press/media for falsely representing the whole thing.


    Perhaps we didn't make it very clear to you, so I'll try again.



    The Gardai, on the day in question, allowed a crime take place while they watched on from the sidelines (riot police and all).

    They then asked an elected TD to help resolve the situation, which he did to the best of his ability.

    Weeks later, after media outcry and government TD's whinging to anyone who'd listen, the Gardai decided that there were to be arrests.

    They decided to arrest around 40 people, some of them kids getting ready to go to school, in dawn raids (denied on this thread by a member of the force) using serious resources to do same, 10 coppers to arrest a 16 year old at 7am!!

    Now we discover that one of the people high up in the directing division of the DPP is the niece of Brendan Howlin, Joan Burton's colleague in the Labour party.

    The people in question, who'll be going to court, aren't informed about their pending court cases.

    The media are.

    As an aside but at the same time, the husband of the current commissioner has been asked to investigate leaks about people's private business to the media.



    A properly functioning system all round, I'm sure you'll agree.


  • Options
    #411
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    NorthStars wrote: »
    They then asked an elected TD to help resolve the situation, which he did to the best of his ability.

    They didn't ask him to resolve it, they asked him to call off his party. That's like giving a hostage taker credit for resolving a situation by surrendering.
    NorthStars wrote: »
    Weeks later, after media outcry and government TD's whinging to anyone who'd listen, the Gardai decided that there were to be arrests.

    Again, people either don't understand or simply misrepresent their understanding (I'm guessing the latter) of an investigation. You don't arrest someone unless you have gathered evidence to put to them. Otherwise there is little point.
    NorthStars wrote: »
    They decided to arrest around 40 people, some of them kids getting ready to go to school, in dawn raids (denied on this thread by a member of the force) using serious resources to do same, 10 coppers to arrest a 16 year old at 7am!!

    How many kids getting ready for school? You keep using that plural word. I guess it's you like exciting language, like "dawn raids". Ironically you recoil at the use of accurate legal words terms like "false imprisonment".
    NorthStars wrote: »
    Now we discover that one of the people high up in the directing division of the DPP is the niece of Brendan Howlin, Joan Burton's colleague in the Labour party.

    And you automatically dismiss her qualifications and previous good work because of this link.
    NorthStars wrote: »
    The people in question, who'll be going to court, aren't informed about their pending court cases.

    The media are.

    According to the media.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #412
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Graham wrote: »
    To prevent a bad situation from escalating.

    Escalating to what now ?


  • Options
    #413
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    These protesters were wasting water by using water balloons and then believed they shouldn't have to pay for it, and chanting stuff like 'stick those water meters up your arse, up your arse, up your, arse, stick those water meters...' and so on.

    But then they don't have the intelligence to understand that the people who work to fix leaking pipes, need things like meters to measure water to see where there are leaks.

    Maybe a jury will have sympathy for them, thinking how stupid they are.


  • Options
    #414
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    Labour down in the latest poll.

    Burton and Kelly are steering the rudderless ship onto the rocks.

    From a Labour perspective the water charges,and its seemingly never ending own goals for Labour,have all but destroyed the Labour core support.

    The Jobstown affair,and the leaks leading to the latest fiasco,have copper fastened Burtons fate as a disaterous leader.

    I do not even think that Labour could shaft Burton or/and Kelly at this late stage.

    They are stuck with them,its too late.


  • Options
    #415
    conorh91
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Banjo String wrote: »
    On that, would that position have been been achieved after a long series of interviews, and selection process, with relevant academic qualifications for the role, or is it a politically appointed one?

    Anyone know?
    Only officeholders are politically appointed in that way. The person you're referring to was previously Chief Prosecution Solicitor for the DPP and also worked in the Judicial Review section.

    I also don't believe this decision would have been made by the division head, it would be a matter for the circuit court section to make, with ultimate go-ahead possibly been given higher up.

    I have to say, this is a pitiful attempt at weaving a web of conspiracy, leaving aside how remote and strained the links are. And dragging a private citizen's name through the mud is pretty indicative of your type of mindset. You're imputing corruption to a person who cannot defend herself.


  • Options
    #416
    Sh1tbag OToole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭Sh1tbag OToole


    How come the junior party in a coalition always gets it's arse handed to it? and how come there are still political parties out there willing to become junior parties in coalitions?

    FG have quite successfully been able to throw the blame for all the tax and charge nasties they introduced onto Labour and Phil Hogan who they were probably planning to ship off to Europe before the last election


  • Options
    #417
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »
    How come the junior party in a coalition always gets it's arse handed to it? and how come there are still political parties out there willing to become junior parties in coalitions?

    FG have quite successfully been able to throw the blame for all the tax and charge nasties they introduced onto Labour and Phil Hogan who they were probably planning to ship off to Europe before the last election


    The junior party Usually comes into government with principles that the majority dont believe in but expect them to hold to those principles no matter how impossible.

    Why do junior parties want to get into power ? You cant do very much in opposition. Plus the guaranteed pensions and power is very attractive no matter who you are.


  • Options
    #418
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    conorh91 wrote: »
    Only officeholders are politically appointed in that way. The person you're referring to was previously Chief Prosecution Solicitor for the DPP and also worked in the Judicial Review section.

    I also don't believe this decision would have been made by the division head, it would be a matter for the circuit court section to make, with ultimate go-ahead possibly been given higher up.

    I have to say, this is a pitiful attempt at weaving a web of conspiracy, leaving aside how remote and strained the links are. And dragging a private citizen's name through the mud is pretty indicative of your type of mindset. You're imputing corruption to a person who cannot defend herself.

    Yea, nothing to see here conor, eh?

    The defender of the indefensible.

    Whipped boy.


  • Options
    #419
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    Gene Kerrigan...the only journalist in the country.
    How Dinny hasn't had him sacked is beyond me.....

    http://m.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/minister-watch-out-its-that-smell-again-31454188.html


  • Options
    #420
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    NorthStars wrote: »
    Gene Kerrigan...the only journalist in the country.
    How Dinny hasn't had him sacked is beyond me.....

    http://m.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/minister-watch-out-its-that-smell-again-31454188.html

    What a rose tinted and skewed view of events. My favourite line is
    and bear in mind that these days they're putting babies' names into Pulse

    The author obviously has an issue with Gardaí being involved in child neglect and cruelty cases. It reminds me of your continuing use of "dawn raids on kids getting ready for school".

    In any case the author is wrong on a number of points particularly the view that the DPP only has six months to bring a charge against someone.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #421
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    NorthStars wrote: »
    Gene Kerrigan...the only journalist in the country.
    How Dinny hasn't had him sacked is beyond me.....

    http://m.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/minister-watch-out-its-that-smell-again-31454188.html

    Exaggeration and factually incorrect opinion piece by someone who obviously has issues with both the Government and the Gardai.


Advertisement