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Jobstown water protesters to be charged

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    #572
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    Graham wrote: »
    0.18% not 18%

    That's zero point one eight.

    It makes zero difference,the people of Tallaght stand firmly against government led quangos.

    Making up figures appears to be a trend,the majority says NO.

    And no amount of mythical maths will change that.


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    #573
    UrbanFox
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭UrbanFox


    I assume that nobody is yet charged as I write this. Once people are charged the sub judice rule will operate and public commentary will be very constrained.

    I think that there has to be a very serious doubt as to whether or not a jury can be empanelled that will be capable of rendering a fair and impartial verdict either way.

    If the jury is largely comprised of members who hold strong views against water charges they might well be biased towards the protesters. Conversely, if they are supportive of water charges (some people are) they might take against the protesters. The indictment will make no mention of water charges but in the real world they lie at the heart of the actions leading to the prosecutions.

    It would be futile for a judge to ask jurors if they hold any potential bias.

    These cases might fall within the scope of justification for a trial before a three judge court in the non-jury Special Criminal Court. I wouldn't be worried if that happened.


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    #574
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,437 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    gladrags wrote: »
    It makes zero difference,the people of Tallaght stand firmly against government led quangos.

    Making up figures appears to be a trend,the majority says NO.

    And no amount of mythical maths will change that.

    do you have any figures to back that up?


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    #575
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    Graham wrote: »
    It's not a protest for democracy, it's a protest against paying for the upkeep and provision of an essential resource. It sounds like your confusing the two.

    Yes it is.

    No confusion, people expressing their democratic right to protest,for what they believe in.

    Nothing new or strange in mass protests in a democracy.

    And water is not the only issue,but it has become the gathering point for many others.

    Bin the Bills


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    #576
    AnnaStezia
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭AnnaStezia


    gladrags wrote: »
    Yes it is.

    No confusion, people expressing their democratic right to protest,for what they believe in.

    Nothing new or strange in mass protests in a democracy.

    And water is not the only issue,but it has become the gathering point for many others.

    Bin the Bills

    Bin the Bills ???? Have we discovered oil or diamonds, thus eliminating the need to pay for anything ?

    I support the democratic right to protest. However, that right is not absolute especially when it comes in to conflict with other rights and responsibilities.


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    #577
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    do you have any figures to back that up?

    Eurostat.


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    #578
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    AnnaStezia wrote: »
    Bin the Bills ???? Have we discovered oil or diamonds, thus eliminating the need to pay for anything ?

    I support the democratic right to protest. However, that right is not absolute especially when it comes in to conflict with other rights and responsibilities.

    Indeed,why are we wasting billions on an entity that has clearly shown its inability to function,in order to preserve our most precious natural resource.?

    Are you suggesting we should continue to throw billions at it,at the taxpayers expense.?

    And then pay for that honour twice,or three or four times,if you include the fact that the pension fund was raided to upkeep this government quango.

    Feel free to do so my friend.


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    #579
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,437 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    gladrags wrote: »
    Eurostat.


    link?


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    #580
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    AnnaStezia wrote: »
    Bin the Bills ???? Have we discovered oil or diamonds, thus eliminating the need to pay for anything ?

    I support the democratic right to protest. However, that right is not absolute especially when it comes in to conflict with other rights and responsibilities.


    We haven't discovered oil or diamonds but we haven't lost our ability to count either.

    Here's an example of my counting.

    Government figures say it costs €1.2 billion per year to provide water and all the infrastructure that goes with it.

    The way bills are at the moment, Irish Water are hoping to collect €60 million per quarter but aren't getting anywhere near that.

    Irish business paid €175 million towards water last year.

    1,200,000,000
    - 175,000,000
    1,025,000,000 = cost needed to be covered by income from households.


    60,000,000 x 4 = 240,000,000 = revenue if everybody pays.

    1,025,000,000
    - 240,000,000
    785,000,000 = Heuston, we have a problem.


    This is back of an envelope calculations, I'll freely admit to this but even my figures don't include the cost of setting up the utility, interest repayments, the cost of collecting the money, investment in infrastructure etc. etc.

    Bills will have to skyrocket if the Irish Water shambles is to break even.

    People have a right to be annoyed.


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    #581
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    gladrags wrote: »
    Yes it is.

    No confusion, people expressing their democratic right to protest,for what they believe in.

    You're half right, people have a democratic right to protest.

    That does not remotely equate to it being a protest about democracy.


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    #582
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    gladrags wrote: »
    It makes zero difference,the people of Tallaght stand firmly against government led quangos.

    Making up figures appears to be a trend,the majority says NO.

    And no amount of mythical maths will change that.

    No mythical math involved, you could almost take your socks off and count the number of protestors yourself.

    A teeny, tiny, some would say minuscule proportion of the Tallaght population turned out to protest.


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    #583
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    link?

    Bye


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    #584
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    Graham wrote: »
    No mythical math involved, you could almost take your socks off and count the number of protestors yourself.

    A teeny, tiny, some would say minuscule proportion of the Tallaght population turned out to protest.

    You will see them again on August 29th,along with tens of thousands from all over Ireland.


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    #585
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Try googling for yourself. Words like "Jobstown" "Joan Burton" "Youtube". It's better you have a look for yourself in case a Government shill leads you astray!

    So As I thought, That's a no to Evidence then. I mean I asked for evidence then one says look for it, great job. Normally one provides when asked or admits they were wrong. :rolleyes:


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    #586
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,437 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    gladrags wrote: »
    Bye

    i'll take that as a no then.


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    #587
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    So As I thought, That's a no to Evidence then. I mean I asked for evidence then one says look for it, great job. Normally one provides when asked or admits they were wrong. :rolleyes:

    It sounds like the DPP thinks there's sufficient evidence to warrant a prosecution. I guess we'll have to wait and see.


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    #588
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    link?

    from the CSO website. http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/newsevents/documents/advice,2015,classification.pdf

    27% is the more realistic percentage of costs collected so far.


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    #589
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Graham wrote: »
    It sounds like the DPP thinks there's sufficient evidence to warrant a prosecution. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

    After a week not a peep. It's almost if someone went "Jesus look at all the bad press."


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    #590
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    Graham wrote: »
    It sounds like the DPP thinks there's sufficient evidence to warrant a prosecution. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

    I eagerly await RTE charging the people involved!


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    #591
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,437 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Banjo String wrote: »
    from the CSO website. http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/newsevents/documents/advice,2015,classification.pdf

    27% is the more realistic percentage of costs collected so far.


    it was this claim that i was looking for figures for
    Making up figures appears to be a trend,the majority says NO.

    have not <> will not


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    #592
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    it was this claim that i was looking for figures for

    have not <> will not

    Any payment figures ? Or we going to dance all day ?


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    #593
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    it was this claim that i was looking for figures for

    have not <> will not

    Roll up, roll up folks.......as of tomorrow the application forms for your water bribe are being sent out.
    All they require is your name, address, PPS number and bank details.
    What could possibly go wrong?????

    You gotta laugh though, they must think paddy really is as thick as two short planks, and maybe in some cases.....he is.


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    #594
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    Banjo String wrote: »
    from the CSO website. http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/newsevents/documents/advice,2015,classification.pdf

    27% is the more realistic percentage of costs collected so far.

    The amount of redacted figures in that report is a joke.
    Did a certain Malteser have anything to do with writing it?


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    #595
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    NorthStars wrote: »
    Roll up, roll up folks.......as of tomorrow the application forms for your water bribe are being sent out.
    All they require is your name, address, PPS number and bank details.
    What could possibly go wrong?????

    You gotta laugh though, they must think paddy really is as thick as two short planks, and maybe in some cases.....he is.

    In other completely unrelated news we're also going to have weather.


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    #596
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Graham wrote: »
    In other completely unrelated news we're also going to have weather.

    And another database that the SW department already have. They have all this information if you receive anything from them. Who are they collecting this stuff for this time ?


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    #597
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    Graham wrote: »
    In other completely unrelated news we're also going to have weather.

    You're at your level now Graham.:cool:


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    #598
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    NorthStars wrote: »
    You're at your level now Graham.:cool:

    Sorry I just assumed you'd given up completely on the topic of the Jobstown water protesters being charged.


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    #599
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    And another database that the SW department already have. They have all this information if you receive anything from them. Who are they collecting this stuff for this time ?

    Name, address (with the new eircode joke numbers attached I would presume), PPS number and bank details.
    What do you think?


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    #600
    NorthStars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭NorthStars


    Graham wrote: »
    Sorry I just assumed you'd given up completely on the topic of the Jobstown water protesters being charged.

    Don't be sorry.:)
    You don't see the connection between water protests and the water conservation grant/bribe?
    Fair enough.


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    #601
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    NorthStars wrote: »
    Name, address (with the new eircode joke numbers attached I would presume), PPS number and bank details.
    What do you think?

    I know what I think, I am wondering what the pro side will think and spin this as.


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