Jobstown water protesters to be charged

michael999999

jh79 wrote: »

While i do genuinely think it was a poor turnout my intention was to wind ye up , won't post again

So you admit to just trolling then!

jh79

michael999999 wrote: »

So you admit to just trolling then!

Half trolling half serious

A Dub in Glasgo

and half demented :pac:

Billy86

jonnny68 wrote: »

This country still has as many unemployed as when FG came into office as when FF created this crisis, there are tens of thousands of people on scambridge and CE schemes who don't count as being unemployed, what about the estimated 350,000 people who have been forced to emigrate to find work or face the grim reality of the dole queue, i count family and friends on that list as well, many of these people didn't want to emigrate but had to, so is this the fastest growing economy you mean is it?

Ireland population 2010 - 4.56mn
Ireland population 2015 - 4.81mn
The 350,000 emigrating is irrelevant as they have been more than replaced in terms of population figures. We have actually increased our population by 350,000.

Of that 4.56mn, roughly 78.7% were of working age - 3.59mn
Of that 4.81mn, roughly 78.5% are of working age - 3.78mn

Ireland unemployment 2010/2011 was 14.5 - 15%
Ireland unemployment 2015 is 9.7%.

15% of 3.59mn is about 538,500
9.7% of 3.78mn is about 366,500

The difference there is 172,000. So, as per you, we have 172,000 on JobBridge and such. One small problem there... as of the end of last year, less than 3,000 were on JobBridge. Even across the whole year, all they filled was just north of 20,000 (and yeah I agree that's about 18,000 too many - the JB scheme isn't terrible, but it's implementation has been horrific), though most of them were temporary and thus only 3,000 were on it as of November 2014.

So what about the other 169,000 jobs... where are you getting those from?

Things have improved alright....for the select few, and of course the golden circle untouched by austerity who continue on the gravy train,

At 169,000 that's one mighty big gravy train!

Dublin West is not a 'golden circle' area I think we can all agree, and it is also the area in question here. Yet in Blanch unemployment dropped by 12.2% from July 2014 - July 2015, and in the same time dropping by 11.9% along the Navan Road. Unemployment in Tallaght also dropped from by 15.5% from December 2013 - December 2014 (couldn't find numbers up to present, but if anything it has gone down further since).

Again, it's not adding up with what you are saying.

you continue to mention Paul Murphy and the Socialists and Greece, i continue to tell you that i am not coming from a socialist perspective and again i will state that i do not necessarily believe in many of the Socialist parties policies, however many of their policies make perfect sense and with them onboard in a coalition with SF and Independents i believe this country will take a turn for the better, the people of this country absolutely must come first every ****ing time, that is an absolute priority, job creation, a proper health care system, an end to homelessness, an end to cronyism and austerity.

I bring up Murphy because he is pretty much the point of this thread. I actually don't mind socialism to some extent at all and consider myself centre-left. However job creation has very much been occurring under FG, and this is an undeniable fact (unless you can show me 169,000 people on CE schemes). They messed some things up horribly (IW and JB both chief among them), and like I said I am not very fond of them in general, but the fact is FG have got us on the way out of a black hole that looked insurmountable five or six years ago.

As for improved services for health, homelessness, etc... I definitely agree with that. However, I definitely agree with the increased taxes that these would also require. The reason our 'socialist' representatives are such a sham is that they don't seem to be at all aware of this - and shooting up corporate tax or solely focusing on the mega-wealthy alone would both be a disastrous approach, as either entities could afford to just up and move the country at the drop of a hat. As much as I would like to see some form of third tax bracket for those earning €100k+ or whatever figure, that is the harsh reality of the matter.

Don't Chute!

NorthStars wrote: »

I make a profit and I pay my staff well.
No problems.

To be accused of exploitation by someone who knows nothing about me is something the pro side are quite good at.
It must sicken them that I'm not on the dole and, indeed, I have taken people off the dole recently.
Imagine that, an employer like myself being against water charges.

And yet you accuse people you know nothing about of corruption left,right and centre!

Also, how is your company doing so well if the country is in such a bad state?

NorthStars

black and amber wrote: »

And yet you accuse people you know nothing about of corruption left,right and centre!

What?

See, you don't know me and I don't know you.

I do know, for a fact, that Brendan Howlin's niece does work in the DPP's office and that she is one of 2 'directors' in that office.

I also know that there was a leak to the press and that leak could only have come from the DPP's office, as that is where the decision to prosecute or not comes from.

NorthStars

black and amber wrote: »

Also, how is your company doing so well if the country is in such a bad state?

Luckily enough I run my business in Dublin, where there's been an economic improvement.
You're kidding yourself if you think that improvement is nationwide.
I had sub-contractors from Leitrim last week and when I asked how things are down that neck of the wood they just laughed. Dead as a dodo was the expression if I remember correctly.

Don't Chute!

Billy86 wrote: »

Ireland population 2010 - 4.56mn
Ireland population 2015 - 4.81mn
The 350,000 emigrating is irrelevant as they have been more than replaced in terms of population figures. We have actually increased our population by 350,000.

Of that 4.56mn, roughly 78.7% were of working age - 3.59mn
Of that 4.81mn, roughly 78.5% are of working age - 3.78mn

Ireland unemployment 2010/2011 was 14.5 - 15%
Ireland unemployment 2015 is 9.7%.

15% of 3.59mn is about 538,500
9.7% of 3.78mn is about 366,500

The difference there is 172,000. So, as per you, we have 172,000 on JobBridge and such. One small problem there... as of the end of last year, less than 3,000 were on JobBridge. Even across the whole year, all they filled was just north of 20,000 (and yeah I agree that's about 18,000 too many - the JB scheme isn't terrible, but it's implementation has been horrific), though most of them were temporary and thus only 3,000 were on it as of November 2014.

So what about the other 169,000 jobs... where are you getting those from?

At 169,000 that's one mighty big gravy train!

Dublin West is not a 'golden circle' area I think we can all agree, and it is also the area in question here. Yet in Blanch unemployment dropped by 12.2% from July 2014 - July 2015, and in the same time dropping by 11.9% along the Navan Road. Unemployment in Tallaght also dropped from by 15.5% from December 2013 - December 2014 (couldn't find numbers up to present, but if anything it has gone down further since).

Again, it's not adding up with what you are saying.


I bring up Murphy because he is pretty much the point of this thread. I actually don't mind socialism to some extent at all and consider myself centre-left. However job creation has very much been occurring under FG, and this is an undeniable fact (unless you can show me 169,000 people on CE schemes). They messed some things up horribly (IW and JB both chief among them), and like I said I am not very fond of them in general, but the fact is FG have got us on the way out of a black hole that looked insurmountable five or six years ago.

As for improved services for health, homelessness, etc... I definitely agree with that. However, I definitely agree with the increased taxes that these would also require. The reason our 'socialist' representatives are such a sham is that they don't seem to be at all aware of this - and shooting up corporate tax or solely focusing on the mega-wealthy alone would both be a disastrous approach, as either entities could afford to just up and move the country at the drop of a hat. As much as I would like to see some form of third tax bracket for those earning €100k+ or whatever figure, that is the harsh reality of the matter.

How dare you come in here and talk sense?!

NorthStars

Think this was pointed out earlier, but some here claimed that the Jobstown cases hadn't gone to court because there was no Judges available or something along those lines.
There was a Judge available this morning, a Saturday, to give Seanie boy another 7 months grace to allow him come up with another reason why he shouldn't be tried.
Funny that, isn't it?

Don't Chute!

NorthStars wrote: »

What?

See, you don't know me and I don't know you.

I do know, for a fact, that Brendan Howlin's niece does work in the DPP's office and that she is one of 2 'directors' in that office.

I also know that there was a leak to the press and that leak could only have come from the DPP's office, as that is where the decision to prosecute or not comes from.

This post just proves my point.

foggy_lad

Those unemployment figures don't take account of asylum seekers and others who are not entitled to work but still included in the population.

Graham

NorthStars wrote: »

Think this was pointed out earlier, but some here claimed that the Jobstown cases hadn't gone to court because there was no Judges available or something along those lines.
There was a Judge available this morning, a Saturday, to give Seanie boy another 7 months grace to allow him come up with another reason why he shouldn't be tried.
Funny that, isn't it?

I missed that post, where was it suggested there were no judges available?

NorthStars

black and amber wrote: »

This post just proves my point.

To you.

michael999999

Graham wrote: »

I missed that post, where was it suggested there were no judges available?

They said the courts were on holidays!

Graham

NorthStars wrote: »

I also know that there was a leak to the press and that leak could only have come from the DPP's office, as that is where the decision to prosecute or not comes from.

Don't tell me you finally found some evidence of this. That's great, I've been waiting for you to finally put your money where your mouth is.

What is this evidence that allows you to state as fact something which you'd only imagined up-to now?

take everything

I am no liberal-left-pinko-tree-hugging-save-the whales-stick-it-the-man-fight-da-powah type, but the news that Sean Fitzpatrick gets his court date adjourned nearly a year while these lads get the full force of the law down on them nearly immediately for worrying Joan Burton a bit leaves a really bad taste in the mouth.

NorthStars

Graham wrote: »

Don't tell me you finally found some evidence of this. That's great, I've been waiting for you to finally put your money where your mouth is.

What is this evidence that allows you to state as fact something which you'd only imagined up-to now?

Grahem, I'm not going down that route with you again.
You won't get the reaction you desire from me.

But, you did say it was a possibility, didn't you?
And when you were asked for other possibilities, you went all shy on us.
Have you thought of any yet?

NorthStars

michael999999 wrote: »

They said the courts were on holidays!

That's what it was.
Do you remember who posted it?
Grahem is interested.

Graham

NorthStars wrote: »

You won't get the reaction you desire from me.

you mean some evidence to backup your assertions.

I didn't think you had any but keep dancing around that fact.

NorthStars

Graham wrote: »

you mean some evidence to backup your assertions.

I didn't think you had any but keep dancing around that fact.

I know what you're at grahem, hopefully others do too.

BTW, have you come up with any other possible sources for the leak?

No? Didn't think so.

darkpagandeath

Graham wrote: »

you mean some evidence to backup your assertions.

I didn't think you had any but keep dancing around that fact.

Who has access to the DPP files on the books for possible prosecution but not charged. This should be good.

NorthStars

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who has access to the DPP files on the books for possible prosecution but not charged. This should be good.

He won't say.
I asked this the other day, and he clammed up then too.

gormdubhgorm

When I read the headline "Jobstown water protesters to be charged" I thought are they being charged extra for water?

darkpagandeath

NorthStars wrote: »

He won't say.
I asked this the other day, and he clammed up then too.

The only other person I can think of is the Minister for justice they have access but she is FG.

Billy86

foggy_lad wrote: »

Those unemployment figures don't take account of asylum seekers and others who are not entitled to work but still included in the population.

It didn't allow for them in 2011, just as it didn't in 2015 - so it doesn't have much of any effect on the overall numbers, especially as we have amongst the lowest number of asylum applicants in Europe and I believe the third lowest on a per-capita basis. For every asylum claim we received last year, Germany received about 150!

Ireland's total asylum applicants are typically 1,000 - 1,500 per year.

Even if I were to be generous to the point of being disingenuous and we said "ok, let's pretend there were no asylum seekers in Ireland at all in 2010, and that every asylum seeker in the country has arrived since, thus distorting the numbers", we come to a grad total of........ 4,360 as of last April. We can even increase that to about 5,300 because of the total 2014 figures.

So after breaking the rules and lying to ourselves that there were no asylum seekers in the country before FG came around... we have only accounted for 5,500 of those 169,000 jobs.

What about the other 163,500?

Graham

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who has access to the DPP files on the books for possible prosecution but not charged. This should be good.

If you're going to be making accusations, it's customary to have some evidence. The only accusation I'm making is against you. Specifically that you don't have a shred of evidence.

Graham

michael999999 wrote: »

They said the courts were on holidays!

Is that not true?

NorthStars

Graham wrote: »

If you're going to be making accusations, it's customary to have some evidence. The only accusation I'm making is against you. Specifically that you don't have a shred of evidence.

The evidence of a leak was on RTE and in the print media almost 3 weeks ago.
Next, you'll be telling us there was no leak.

NorthStars

Graham wrote: »

Is that not true?

The courts were open for Seanie this morning.

darkpagandeath

Graham wrote: »

If you're going to be making accusations, it's customary to have some evidence. The only accusation I'm making is against you. Specifically that you don't have a shred of evidence.

I am not making accusations, Where would the leak come from Name another source that could have access there are none.