When did mainstream music start to go downhill?

jaymcg91

Everyone thinks music gets worse but in reality - it's because they're getting old.

speedboatchase

You got old, OP.

Plenty of great music out there and it's never been easier to discover it.

hatrickpatrick

Personally I don't agree with the premise that current music is sh!te. But then I'm probably one of very few musicians who's as happy to listen to Avicii as I am to The Who. Music is music - if it sounds good, do it.

Music is one of those areas of life in which the end justifies the means, to me. It strikes me that a lot of the criticism of modern music is attacking the means - artists co-writing with professional songwriters, using synthesisers and samples instead of playing physical instruments, using particular signature sound effects such as drops and filter sweeps etc.

In my view, all of that is irrelevant bullsh!t - if the end result gets stuck in your head and you find yourself wanting to listen to it again, it's a good piece of music. End of. How it was arrived at is fairly irrelevant to me.

hatrickpatrick

jaymcg91 wrote: »

Everyone thinks music gets worse but in reality - it's because they're getting old.

What is that though, psychologically? As in, why does "getting older" involve becoming less tolerant of newer styles of music? Is it because the style is too different to that which invokes nostalgic memories, and therefore can't be related to?

If that's the case, then the people who stop enjoying modern music because they're getting old, are the people who at some point in their lives stopped making new memories. Sounds fairly bleak to me.

sxt

Rabo Karabekian wrote: »

I agree with you (and had pretty much the exact same experience as you: lost interest in (most of) the mainstream around 13 in the early 90s). My comment (not very well written) was more that every generation gets slated by the previous generation.



Yeah, I hear you, and I would much prefer the mainstream music of the 60s/70s/80s to nowadays. I would say that it's probably not comparing like with like (choosing the worst of today with the best of yesteryear): plenty of dross in the 60s charts..

The Beatles , rolling Stones, beach boys, Abba etc were the biggest selling mainstream bands in the 60s/70 etc.. The biggest selling mainstream acts of today are one direction, Justin Bieber etc... So it is a direct comparison of the mainstream acts

sxt

speedboatchase wrote: »

Plenty of great music out there and it's never been easier to discover it.

I know there is but I am only talking about mainstream. Acts that are selling millions and millions. The biggest selling artists of the day

foggy_lad

The music was murdered by the likes of Louis Walsh and his boy "bands". They are a pore marketing ploy and have nothing to do with music!

nyarlothothep

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What is that though, psychologically? As in, why does "getting older" involve becoming less tolerant of newer styles of music? Is it because the style is too different to that which invokes nostalgic memories, and therefore can't be related to?

If that's the case, then the people who stop enjoying modern music because they're getting old, are the people who at some point in their lives stopped making new memories. Sounds fairly bleak to me.

As has been pointed out the argument is trotted out as a stock/group think response. It's about 50% valid insofar as people who listen to a particular style of music to be part of a "scene" are concerned or people who simply are close minded (and they would have been like this when they were young as well). It is false to claim that there are no cultural highs or lows, that it is simply a flat plain of history and it is presumptious to the point of falsity to claim, on behalf of the entire human race that once you're "old" you no longer like new music. In fact I seriously doubt the legitimacy of the argument that music has a more euphoric effect on you up to 22 and then you become jaded, I listened to Funkadelic's Super Stupid when I was 28 and had it on repeat for a few days such was the awesome effect of the song. I'm 30 now and there isn't much worth listening to but if something good comes on I don't care what genre it is, I will say it's good. I was similarly dismissive of the mainstream between 1998 and 2000 when it was dominated by dance music, it has nothing to do with age. Music lovers regardless of age will be open to new things if they are good, but frankly what is popular in the mainstream now is trash. In fact the whole age argument is premised it would seem, on the idea that there must be generational conflict as an inherent property of the human race, again as bs as saying human nature must =greed/selfishness/stupidity but you will hear it over and over again. The problem with that assumption is that it applies to say the 50s, 60s and 70s in particular but there seems to be a generational convergence in terms of cultural tastes so that young people today end up liking the same music as their parents. There's no real movement against any previous cultural trend although I would say there is a great deal of indifference to "older" music, rock music for example simply isn't popular anymore but this would also apply to "old" films from the 80s and maybe it's just where I am at the minute where most people are of the uber mainstream and so aren't into anything beyond what's contemporary.

MonkeyTennis

speedboatchase wrote: »

You got old, OP.

Plenty of great music out there and it's never been easier to discover it.

totally correct. Its an amazing time for music. Youtube has opened a whole new corridor of amazingly gifted musicians.

Hand up if you are gong to Thundercat in November :cool: ?

sxt

Here is a rough list of the biggest selling artists of each decade. These are the most mainstream . I think Most people would have to admit there has been a gentle decline in the musical quality of the top commercial artists from the 80 s onwards... and then a steep mount everest decline in the 90s when Maria Carey, Madonna , and Celine Dion are the the most commercialy successful acts

http://tsort.info/music/faq_decade_artists.htm

Kermit.de.frog

sxt wrote: »

one direction are fine and have great songs here and there...

I stopped reading at this point OP.

Cold War Kid

jaymcg91 wrote: »

Everyone thinks music gets worse but in reality - it's because they're getting old.

speedboatchase wrote: »

You got old, OP.

Plenty of great music out there and it's never been easier to discover it.

It's been demonstrably proven a number of times on this thread that chart music (not stuff that's more on the fringes, but commercial/pop music specifically) has actually deteriorated in quality objectively.

end of the road

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

happy to listen to Avicii

he had decent tunes when he first came out. then like others, he sold out. but, if it works for him, good luck to him

Dirty Dingus McGee

After Beethoven.

Cienciano

Into The Blue wrote: »

All music was just a mere prelude to 3n1 Cafe Del Mar and all music since has been an anti climax. (Except for Jamie xx-gosh)

Entire Jamie XX album is amazing. Except good times, god I hate that one.

sxt wrote: »

Not true! The mainstream music of the sixties and seventies make up the brunt of the "best albums ever made" lists everywhere. Beatles, Rolling Stones, Dylan, Velvet underground, Bowie, pink flyod, led Zeppelin, Neil Young etc...

These bands were the Nicky minjas of today. They were mainstream gold

First, my favourite decade for music is the 70s. But lets pick a random year, 1975 and see the top selling albums in the UK for that year.

1 The Best of the Stylistics The Stylistics
2 Once Upon a Star Bay City Rollers
3 Atlantic Crossing Rod Stewart
4 Horizon The Carpenters
5 40 Golden Greats Jim Reeves
6 40 Greatest Hits Elvis Presley
7 Tubular Bells Mike Oldfield
8 Greatest Hits Elton John
9 Venus and Mars Wings
10 The Singles: 1969-1973 The Carpenters
11 40 Greatest Hits Perry Como
12 Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy Elton John
13 Greatest Hits Simon & Garfunkel
14 20 Greatest Hits Tom Jones
15 Englebert Humperdinck: His Greatest Hits Engelbert Humperdinck
16 Rollin' Bay City Rollers
17 The Original Soundtrack 10cc
18 Favourites Peters and Lee
19 The Dark Side of the Moon Pink Floyd
20 Get Dancing Various Artists

It's actually fairly shíte. Dark Side of the Moon being the exception. I think we look back at music with rose tinted glasses. A lot of what we consider classic albums, weren't nessessarly the top selling albums of the time. Hendrix got to 2 and 6 with his 2 classic albums.
I love The Doors, probably one of the best debut albums of all time. Gets to number 43 in the UK charts.

Severard

Mainstream music in the last twenty years at least has been dreadful for the most part. It mostly consists of someone either praising or berating someone else of the opposite sex. The problem ultimately lies with the consumer - the record companies are all too happy to push this stuff out as long as it makes them money - The internet has been a blessing and a curse as well. On the one hand it's great to get new talent noticed while on the other it helps to propagate the low quality stuff that is already out there. In my work place FM104 is usually on and the stuff they put on is absolutely dire. They also have the gaal to state that they "don't repeat songs".

Rabo Karabekian

sxt wrote: »

The Beatles , rolling Stones, beach boys, Abba etc were the biggest selling mainstream bands in the 60s/70 etc.. The biggest selling mainstream acts of today are one direction, Justin Bieber etc... So it is a direct comparison of the mainstream acts

Ah okay, I didn't think 1 direction and Bieber were the bestselling artists of our time.

hatrickpatrick

end of the road wrote: »

he had decent tunes when he first came out. then like others, he sold out. but, if it works for him, good luck to him

I'd have the opposite view tbh, the melding of dance and country a la Wake Me Up, Hey Brother and The Nights are the only recently released dance tunes which persistently get stuck in my head.

To each their own I guess, but IMO that stuff is absolutely class and I really, really wish I knew how to write like that

Rough Sleeper

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'd have the opposite view tbh, the melding of dance and country a la Wake Me Up, Hey Brother and The Nights are the only recently released dance tunes which persistently get stuck in my head.

To each their own I guess, but IMO that stuff is absolutely class and I really, really wish I knew how to write like that

I think it's pretty much as bad as music gets. It's like something that a hungover Ag. Science student would make up in his head on the bus to UCD, inspired by the tune selection in Quinn's the previous night. If a dance song makes it on to your aunty's iPod, you know it's going to be ****ing stinking.

Panic E

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Personally I don't agree with the premise that current music is sh!te. But then I'm probably one of very few musicians who's as happy to listen to Avicii as I am to The Who. Music is music - if it sounds good, do it.

Do you mind me asking what this type of music that you write is? And do have any examples of such. Thanks.

kupus

Zaph wrote: »

Oi, leave The Monkees out of this. :mad:

As regards manufactured bands, here's a lil known fact.....
The sex pistols yes those people who rebel against society and stuff etc blah......
Manufactured.

Malcolm mclarens girlfriend needed to sell clothes so she got him to Create a band so she can have a targeted audience......her name is Vivian Westwood.
The rest is history

thebaz

probably went seriously downhill after millennium - i am old enegh to have lived through 3 music revolutions - punk, hip-hop and dance - Dance really kicked off in '88 , and no revolution since - wouldn't count grunge (it was a reinvention of punk , a good one mind - somehow i don't fancy getting all wild and angry to One Direction or hush hush Ed Shearan

thebaz

Raylee Sour Sailor wrote: »

Why no option before 1980. The late 70s were crap and the beginning of the slippery slope.

wow - the late 70s were such a fertile time for music - possibly the best time ever - 2 tone, the beginnings of hip-hop , the Specials, the Clash , the Jam , Pistols , Bob Marley and all the other reggae greats, the Ramones, Bowie at his best - and many many more in comparison to todays rubbish

spiralism

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Around 2007. After that and with the beginning of the 10s I experienced a total disconnect with what was and is popular. Where are the rock bands? It's just singer songwriters and anthemic wimp music, the same 'souful' singer pouring their heart out accompanied by a guitar or piano which builds up with 4/4 drums etc.

Solid point. Mainstream rock music by and large has really died on it's arse in the last number of years. There's been exceptions (Muse, Arctic Monkeys, Queens of the Stone Age, Linkin Park) who've been creative, have a very specific, identifiable sound and pushed the boat out while being good, successful newer bands but the trend now is exactly what's described. It's harder in this era to come out with something new or different, downloads have hit the industry and coupled with the likes of the Xfactor producing/inspiring "sure things" for music execs its taken a lot of scope for creativity out for new bands. They'll sign up what's going to make them money rather than take a risk like may have happened before.

Take for example Arctic Monkeys, they started off another generic britpop band, releasing their debut at a time when it was hugely popular but evolved quite a lot after making it big, their sound has developed drastically from earlier albums. The other three examples, two were set up in the late 90s while Linkin Park made it big by piggybacking on a trend, yet same as Arctic Monkeys they used their fame to evolve the sound to something quite different. (Incidentally why i often find the criticism of bands "selling out" as ludicrous, do people just want them to do an AC/DC and release the same album over and over again ?)

There was a trend where there were about 7 million bands sounding exactly like The Kooks or Razorlight. Again, execs going with the safe bet. There was one spell 5-10 years ago where you couldn't move for another generic britpop indie band, the vast majority totally forgettable. It's been done lads, Oasis and Blur hit it out of the park twenty years ago and you're feeding off scraps. Rock and Roll is about the risk and doing something that doesn't stick to the script. Hence it's being driven back underground unless it's along a certain formula.

Now its the soulful, generic wimp music as said before. Again, surefire things and trends. People are lapping it up, so more bands following the trend come in. Less money in the industry and you have a few surefire trends that are being stuck to and less risks being taken. There are a lot more measurables in the industry as well thanks to the internet such as views, downloads and so on. Essentially the people with the money have a lot more figures to base their decisions and play it safe with. They see a few fellas with a guitar whining a few years back with high youtube hits and put two and two together. They give those deals and sign the guys following that style. Before you know it, there's a trend.

Back even twenty years ago you had to play gigs, get a good reputation, stand out and get noticed before you could record and make a deal. You got noticed by standing out. Now you get signed by not standing out. Internet's great and all but it and reality music TV have a lot to answer for in terms of mainstream music.

Michaelsherry59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/96603338#Comment_96603338

Far from last, that decade was awful

Deregos.

1971 was quite an excellent year for music . . . Even though, it was around that time that 'the music died', apparently.

riclad

Late 2000s when rock music faded away, replaced by rap, edm, endless micro genres of music, sound core, kpop, drill etc Katy Perry made some great classic pop songs

Or maybe when streaming nos became more important than album sales I know everyone thinks the best music was. When I was 18 young most people stop listening to new music when they are over 25 years old

The album release is no important apart from exceptions like Adele Taylor swift

Or maybe when the importance of real guitar faded away replaced by music made on laptops using samples

Every band used have 1 or 2 guitar players who were vital to the melodic sound of every song from the beatles rolling stones genesis etc as far as I can see billie eilish brother makes all her music on laptops

Every band needed at least one skilled guitarist to make music

A lot of the decline in music sorts are middle-aged denim jacket wearing bores who consider ponderous auld Dad rock like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin to be the pinnacle of music. Radio Nova sorts.

Mad_maxx

Circa 2001

Strumms

there was some absolute dross in the mid to late ‘80’s...it was truly the first era where an industry pushed en masse... popularity over talent...a look, style or attitude over songs and musicianship...

the 70’s and early ‘80’s had it all, punk, rock, folk, pop, disco... creativity, artists creating, originality, all of sound, look and to a point songwriting..

85603

spice girls was the point of no return.

when cher released... or rather committed ... 'life after love' all hope was finally lost.

Tork

I don't know if there was an actual turning point. It seems to have been a gradual erosion, though what would I know? I'm not in the intended demographic any more.

It's very easy to look at the Top 40 from decades past with rose-tinted glasses. Tune into any of those old Top of the Pops that BBC 4 re-run and the chart rundowns will have lots of songs you've either never heard of or had forgotten about because they're not played on the radio. This is usually because they're rubbish. People pick turning points based on when the music they like goes out of fashion.

Don't know but while there has always been crap in the charts, anyone who claims chart/pop/daytime radio music is the same quality overall as its equivalent between the '50s and mid 2000s is having a laugh.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/96654608#Comment_96654608

'79 to '81 was amazing. Madness, Blondie, Human League, Elvis Costello and the Attractions, Ian Dury and the Blockheads, Roxy Music, The Selector, Adam and the Ants, OMD, Soft Cell, Dexys, Ultravox, Talking Heads, The Police, Gary Numan... this was the charts!

eggy81

When the spice girls came along

rtron

Oasis's 4th album!

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/96603050#Comment_96603050

I know this is an old post...but it deserves recognition! The music created by and for the Monkees was brilliant.

That's not even Michael Nesmith's real hat.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

The mid 90s

Montage of Feck

Stock, Aiken and Waterman had their first number 1 in 1987.

Ubbquittious

Survival bias

There was **** music in every decade that has been forgotten, making said decade look rosier than it was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec4RA58CGPc

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006744#Comment_118006744

Today's charts sound terrible and very samey to my ears but maybe that's the point. I'm a child of the 80s and 90s so those are the charts that are the dearest to my heart. I would be as miserable listening to 1950s music as I would today's Top 40. The 60s and 70s are more tolerable but there were an awful lot of clunkers around in the charts then, too. I enjoy 70s albums more than what was in the charts tbh.

Perhaps illegal downloading and streaming was the biggest turning point. Whereas pop songs songs years ago could have longer intros and more complex musical arrangements and melodies, I notice mainstream music is far more repetitive and simpler. They're designed to hook people who are just song-hopping, unlike the old days when buying an album or a single was a financial commitment.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006994#Comment_118006994

One song. See my post above about '79 to '81. Saying the charts today (and I emphasise charts - there's plenty of brilliant music but you won't hear it on daytime radio) is no different to then... absolutely not true.

It's X Factor type stuff and internet marketing which has caused the decline. And fine, I like my "alt" stuff but I do miss a good pop song.

bodhrandude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006994#Comment_118006994

Agree with this, although these auto-tune hits with no variation in their vocal melody is the pits. Yeah I remember 79 - 81, there was some great stuff, but there was also pure sh1te as well: Joe Dolce - Shaddup Ya Face, B.A Robertson, Patrick Hernandez, Ottawa, Dollar (Fecking remember them), Kelly Marie, The Dooley's, The Nolan Sisters. Early eighties: Thompson Twins, Haysi Fantayzee, Kajagoogoo, New Romance. Yup every decade had absolute tosh in the charts, its just more noticeable these days because of crap TV shows like XFactor, Britain's Got Talent or add what ever country the franchise is in, Ireland has its fair share with the likes of You're a Star and what ever followed that.

No denying that there has always been crap (although I like B.A. Robertson, New Romantic, Thompson Twins and Hayzee Fantaysee - great pop!) but it's undeniable that the ratio of crap to good when it comes to today's chart music has changed.

There's absolutely no way there is the same amount of good pop now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/96605382#Comment_96605382

Old post but spot on. Times do change - it's not all just a matter of perspective (although that is a little part of it too).

Suckit

I went for 1987.

I don't know when Stock-Aitken-Waterman started, but when they started churning out crap and then Waterman went out on his own and doubled down on crap. Anyone could release anything - a remix of an old song, a bad karaoke cover etc. It opened the doors wide open for the likes of Simon Cowell to do it even cheaper and worse.

Around the same time drum machines became more popular - for use in cheap pop songs (not when they are used creatively) and the worst culprit of all, pitch correction/artificial voice (Cher - Do you belieeevvvee)

It was always going downhill when the profits could be increased by making the acts less attached to the songs/music, and picking or choosing anyone and tying them to a cheap af contract. But that for me seems to around the time the acceleration pedal was hit.

Music is so cheap now to produce and reproduce (as the record companies have ownership rights) - they can put good songs into crap adverts, have terrible covers (usually song at a much slower tempo) and probably destroyed the song for life for first time listeners.

chrissb8

I judge how good mainstream music by what songs are being played 5-10 years later. IMO there has been nothing replayable in the last 6-7 years in mainstream music. So only very recently. Last mainstream song I can think that had any weight to it was WAP and that is just pure cringe which was more of a fad than anything due to its provocative nature.

Unfortunately, as much as I dislike mainstream music there will be Ed Sheeran, Bruno Mars, Taylor Swift, Adele all played in years to come. To my great displeasure. But really they all can't hold a candle of what came before in the 00's which was just stellar album after stellar album. Arctic Monkeys, The Strokes, The Killers, Kanye West, Daft Punk, The Streets, MGMT, Gnarls Barkley.......so many more...literally right up until 2009 so many great albums. Albums that all charted and had music in the mainstream charts. Most importantly great variety in genre too.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006984#Comment_118006984

I hadn't read that when I wrote my post. I agree. It was around then that the downhill started.

Before then there seemed to have been the proper amount of songs suitable for each 'category' - Kids, different genres etc.

Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, Scotland (among others) still have their own artists producing music that is liked mainly in their own countries, but more and more they are just producing artists that could be from anywhere with no distinction to say they're not English or American. I'm not referring to e.g. "Irish music" in Ireland etc. either. Decent bands producing good music that unfortunately rarely made any success outside their own countries, now even those are often the same as everywhere else.

A quarter past eleven on a Saturday in 1999.