La Liga Superthread 2016/17

dfx-

miralize wrote: »

As much as it pains me, I want Real to score & end as a draw. Much more concerned about Atletico at this stage.

I think Atletico will continue to struggle to score like last week against Villarreal and drop other points to disciplined sides

dreamers75

25 clean sheets for atletico, thats mental.

blueser

https://twitter.com/calciomercatoit/status/703639140491993089?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

He's a fantastic player, no question about it. But he comes across as an unbelievably arrogant cnut.

zuutroy

dreamers75 wrote: »

25 clean sheets for atletico, thats mental.

Rayo have 2 goals less than them and they're struggling to avoid relegation.
Might have something to do with the 42 more they've conceded!

irishguitarlad

blueser wrote: »

https://twitter.com/calciomercatoit/status/703639140491993089?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

He's a fantastic player, no question about it. But he comes across as an unbelievably arrogant cnut.

I actually cant believe he said that, surely hes gone in the summer after it. Could you imagine being in that dressing room after it.

Ulysses Gaze

irishguitarlad wrote: »

I actually cant believe he said that, surely hes gone in the summer after it. Could you imagine being in that dressing room after it.

Post is gone...or I can't see it.

What did he say?

dreamers75

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Post is gone...or I can't see it.

What did he say?

Cristiano Ronaldo erupts following Atletico defeat: 'If my teammates were at my level, we would be first …http://www.calciomercato.it/news/371310/real-madrid-atletico-madrid-ronaldo-se-tutti-fossero-al-mio-livello-saremmo-primi.html

its a tweet mybe you cant see them?

Ulysses Gaze

dreamers75 wrote: »

its a tweet mybe you cant see them?

Thanks. Ridiculous thing to say by Ronaldo.

It's not like Mr Ego played out of his skin today either.

Headshot

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

It's not like Mr Ego played out of his skin today either.

or this season either

Headshot

I also like the way he says he rather play with Bale , Benzema , Marcelo and Pepe than Kovacic , Lucas and Jese

What a pleasant thing to say...

Madrid should sell him in the summer, China would probably pay ridiculous money

NIMAN

A fading star lashing out at others.....

MD1990

The time has come for Real to sell Ronaldo. His goal obsession & stats have hid which hasn't been a great season for him. His goals have only got Real an extra 2 points. His attitude despite becoming older & you would think more mature & has got even worse probably to do with being frustated with his decline as a player even though his stats are somewhat hiding it.

Turtwig

Perez must be delighted. The fans at the match today were calling for him to resign. Then Ronaldo goes and says that taking away a good deal of the spotlight on Perez.

NIMAN

Despite all the hype, and biased commentary in the media, ZZ's Real are no better than Rafa's Real.

I am sure the players are happier after they got their wish and Rafa out, but they have not up'd their game since to show how much they enjoy the new regime.

j8wk2feszrnpao

NIMAN wrote: »

Despite all the hype, and biased commentary in the media, ZZ's Real are no better than Rafa's Real.

I am sure the players are happier after they got their wish and Rafa out, but they have not up'd their game since to show how much they enjoy the new regime.

Problems in Real, and has been for a while. That CL win covered over the cracks that's hampered them in the league.
Ronaldo is at Real for the last 7yrs and domestically has won 1 La Liga title (not going to win it this year) and 2 Copa Del Rey's. Atl Madrid have 1 La Liga and 1 Copa Del Rey in that time (and were so close to winning that CL).

Ronaldo's obsession with his goals/stats and winning the Ballon D'or for himself is central to the issue. It's all about him.

He does have to be acknowledged for his phenomenal goal tally and he clearly focuses on his physique and fitness.

But his lack of work rate when Real don't have the ball has always been a problem. Look at the Barca side that has dominated in this era. A real team. Messi could easily stand around waiting for the ball to come to him, but his work rate helps sets the standard (i.e. If Messi is willing, then they are all willing to graft for the ball). The current front 3 of Messi, Suarez and Neymar have all bought in on the team ethic, and the results/performances have come from that.

Ronaldo maybe gets too much criticism, but he does open himself to it as well. The lack of just one player not making the effort doesn't hurt Real for 90% of their games. But in those big games, and over the course of a full season, it hurts enough to drop pts that count.

Bohrio

One thing, Ronaldo did say after the newspapers published his comments that he meant in a physical/shape way not quality. However, I have to say that I heard the interview and it doesnt seem like that, he was literally blaming everyone else for the defeat and kept going back to how well he is performing and that, and I quote "for you (referring to the media) I am sh..t, if I listen to the press", "the statistics are there, the numbers are there, have a look, it is easy"

However, someone dig out those "numbers" and they are pretty deceiving, for instance, he has scored 22 goals in La Liga, but if you remove the goals against Español and penalty kicks, he wouldnt even be among the first 14, at the same level of Jozabed (Rayo player) but Ranldo has played 800 more minutes

In the Champions league he is the top scorer with 12 goals, 11 of those against Malmoe and Shaktar.

So far he hasnt scored against Barça, Atleti PSG, Villarreal, Valencia, Sevilla etc. Basically 1 goal against Roma in 9 of those "big" games.

He really needs to take a look at himself and rethink his future.

NIMAN

Bohrio wrote: »

One thing, Ronaldo did say after the newspapers published his comments that he meant in a physical/shape way not quality. However, I have to say that I heard the interview and it doesnt seem like that, he was literally blaming everyone else for the defeat and kept going back to how well he is performing and that, and I quote "for you (referring to the media) I am sh..t, if I listen to the press", "the statistics are there, the numbers are there, have a look, it is easy"

However, someone dig out those "numbers" and they are pretty deceiving, for instance, he has scored 22 goals in La Liga, but if you remove the goals against Español and penalty kicks, he wouldnt even be among the first 14, at the same level of Jozabed (Rayo player) but Ranldo has played 800 more minutes

In the Champions league he is the top scorer with 12 goals, 11 of those against Malmoe and Shaktar.

So far he hasnt scored against Barça, Atleti PSG, Villarreal, Valencia, Sevilla etc. Basically 1 goal against Roma in 9 of those "big" games.

He really needs to take a look at himself and rethink his future.

I would say for the future of Real Madrid as a club, perhaps they should be having a good hard look at him?

I know he is still a marketing machine, but they are rapidly approaching a time when his resale value will plummet. I think this summer is their last big chance to life a pile of cash off PSG, Man Utd or China.

They will have to plan a team without him in the next 2 or 3 years anyway, why not bring in the cash to help fill the void now?

LuckyGent88

Barca very unlucky there. Hit the bar and then the crossbar at a corner.

They are lucky they though they weren't a goal down before that.

LuckyGent88

Cracking goal by Sevilla.

Can't believe they haven't won away from home all season.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Great goal by Messi.

Really enjoyable first half.

Dirty Dingus McGee

2-1 Barca.Enjoyable match.

I can never understand why teams don't throw the goalie up for corners in the last minute in league matches particularly in Spain where goal difference doesn't count.

It rarely works but it could cause some confusion in the Barca defence with the last corner for Sevilla.

Turtwig

Athletic Bilbao did it once and the goalkeeper scored a peach of a header, then the referee inexplicably disallowed it. Can't understand why more teams don't do it.

callaway92

AndersonIsGod MIA??

Gbear

Barca are ****.

Their opponents went down to 9 men and they couldn't even score double digits.

Hala Madrid.

NIMAN

2 players sent off against Barca. If that happened v Madrid, people would be calling Government conspiracies etc.

The Golden Miller

If I was as terrible as Ronaldo is in open play then I certainly wouldn't be pointing fingers at other players for not performing. He's the biggest culprit of the lot. In most games they are playing with 10 men, as Ronaldo stands around waiting for tap ins against cannon fodder to make his stats look better. The biggest spoofer the game has ever seen

Flint Fredstone

The Golden Miller wrote: »

If I was as terrible as Ronaldo is in open play then I certainly wouldn't be pointing fingers at other players for not performing.

So you are better than him?

The Golden Miller

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

So you are better than him?

Yes

Brendan Flowers

Bohrio wrote: »

However, someone dig out those "numbers" and they are pretty deceiving, for instance, he has scored 22 goals in La Liga, but if you remove the goals against Español and penalty kicks, he wouldnt even be among the first 14, at the same level of Jozabed (Rayo player) but Ranldo has played 800 more minutes

And I assume those 14 players ahead of Ronaldo in your 'revised' list, you have also removed penalties scored by them and excluded the game where they scored their highest tally of goals in a single match?

CSF

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

And I assume those 14 players ahead of Ronaldo in your 'revised' list, you have also removed penalties scored by them and excluded the game where they scored their highest tally of goals in a single match?

Of course not, what are you expecting here? Reasonable argument?

Edit: by here I don't mean this thread!!!!

Flint Fredstone

Sure if you remove all his goals from all the seasons he would be the worst forward in the history of La Liga.

Unearthly

His goals yesterday showed off his great skillsets last decade. Thumping long ranger, free kick, a tap in from his great movement, and a header.

One of the all time greats

The Golden Miller

I see he scored 4 more goals against some cannon fodder defense that Madrid would have won in first gear anyway. Looks good for his stats though I suppose

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I see he scored 4 more goals against some cannon fodder defense that Madrid would have won in first gear anyway. Looks good for his stats though I suppose

Ronaldo has deserved some of the criticism he's got but I always find it funny how high the levels are for him to be criticised at times. Why aren't a lot of players scoring 4 goals against cannon fodder defences so? 4 goals in a game is a lot more than just a stat, especially the variation of the goals.

lassykk

It's hilarious that someone is getting a kicking for knocking in four goals in a game against a top 6 team. If Messi, Suarez or Neymar did it they would be gods and there would be people on declaring that it was a thing of rare and unexplainable beauty.

He's clearly in decline and perhaps can't perform to the same level against the top teams but he is still one of the best players around

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

Ronaldo has deserved some of the criticism he's got but I always find it funny how high the levels are for him to be criticised at times. Why aren't a lot of players scoring 4 goals against cannon fodder defences so? 4 goals in a game is a lot more than just a stat, especially the variation of the goals.

He's a great striker, nothing more. He gets criticised because in open play he can hardly reach any standards, let alone high one's. Well if you're playing in a juggernaut who play direct football and steamroll weak defense's and the juggernaut looks to place the ball at the feet of one player after every attack, then I'd say even you would score a fair few.

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

He's a great striker, nothing more. He gets criticised because in open play he can hardly reach any standards, let alone high one's. Well if you're playing in a juggernaut who play direct football and steamroll weak defense's and the juggernaut looks to place the ball at the feet of one player after every attack, then I'd say even you would score a fair few.

Did you not watch him at United? or his first 2 seasons at Real? He has become the 'striker' since then. The way you talk you'd swear he's only scoring tap ins, it's a ridiculous exaggeration of what he 'can't' do. He is on the decline football wise but a decline from his previous standards is not the same as most other player's decline. The whole 'even you would score....' argument, why haven't loads of other players before him who also played in great teams reached similar levels? Being so used to something at an extremely high level and see it drop can hinder accurate criticism imo.

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

Did you not watch him at United? or his first 2 seasons at Real? He has become the 'striker' since then. The way you talk you'd swear he's only scoring tap ins, it's a ridiculous exaggeration of what he 'can't' do. He is on the decline football wise but a decline from his previous standards is not the same as most other player's decline. The whole 'even you would score....' argument, why haven't loads of other players before him who also played in great teams reached similar levels? Being so used to something at an extremely high level and see it drop can hinder accurate criticism imo.

They have though. What was his "level" to make him the man all attacks finish up at in Madrid? Scoring 31 goals for one season at United? Suarez done that only two years ago plus gave a whole lot more in open play. If you put the Brazilian Ronaldo as an out and out striker in the same Madrid juggernaut who play in the most lopsided major league in Europe where every attack finishes at his feet you can be sure he'd tear it up with goals too. Ronaldo's done nothing that other great strikers haven't done before, probably less infact, but benefits greatly from the current set up in Madrid and La Liga. I don't see him banging in 5 goals a game against serious defenses in top European sides. Infact, he rarely gets a look in, and in open play tends to be anonymous.

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

They have though. What was his "level" to make him the man all attacks finish up at in Madrid? Scoring 31 goals for one season at United? Suarez done that only two years ago plus gave a whole lot more in open play. If you put the Brazilian Ronaldo as an out and out striker in the same Madrid juggernaut who play in the most lopsided major league in Europe where every attack finishes at his feet you can be sure he'd tear it up with goals too. Ronaldo's done nothing that other great strikers haven't done before, probably less infact, but benefits greatly from the current set up in Madrid and La Liga. I don't see him banging in 5 goals a game against serious defenses in top European sides. Infact, he rarely gets a look in, and in open play tends to be anonymous.

Suarez played as a forward for Liverpool, Ronaldo didn't at United. Ronaldo gave loads in open play at United. He's a different beast now than what he was then simply because of his hunger for goals really. His 'level' is the First player to reach 40 goals in a professional league in two consecutive seasons, only player in history to have scored 60 or more goals in a calendar year four times, first and only player to appear in the FIFPro World XI for two different clubs, most UEFA Champions League goals scored in a calendar year etc etc. There's loads of more records he has set, which means he has done more in a lot of ways than any other player, I think thats a very fair way to say he was at a 'level'. Who has scored 5 goals in games against top European sides consistently though? That's not the point at all to be honest.

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

Suarez played as a forward for Liverpool, Ronaldo didn't at United. Ronaldo gave loads in open play at United. He's a different beast now than what he was then simply because of his hunger for goals really. His 'level' is the First player to reach 40 goals in a professional league in two consecutive seasons, only player in history to have scored 60 or more goals in a calendar year four times, first and only player to appear in the FIFPro World XI for two different clubs, most UEFA Champions League goals scored in a calendar year etc etc. There's loads of more records he has set, which means he has done more in a lot of ways than any other player, I think thats a very fair way to say he was at a 'level'. Who has scored 5 goals in games against top European sides consistently though? That's not the point at all to be honest.

Suarez was a forward and still had more influence over his teams playmaking and link up play than Ronaldo ever did at United. Suarez led that team and dragged them to greater heights and they would have been fcuked without him, United would have achieved the same with or without Ronaldo, just as is the case with Madrid. 40 goals, 60 goals blah blah blah. Put it in context and wise up. There's now more disparity in the Spanish league than there ever has been and most of his European goals come in the group stages during 7-0 hidings. The Madrid system benefits him greatly and everything is directed towards him and they play in a very direct fashion by Spanish standards, hence the juggernaut comments. But surely Ronaldo should be scoring 5 goals against the better teams if he's hit a level never seen before or does that just show he scores most of these goals cannon fodder defenses?

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Suarez was a forward and still had more influence over his teams playmaking and link up play than Ronaldo ever did at United. Suarez led that team and dragged them to greater heights and they would have been fcuked without him, United would have achieved the same with or without Ronaldo, just as is the case with Madrid. 40 goals, 60 goals blah blah blah. Put it in context and wise up. There's now more disparity in the Spanish league than there ever has been and most of his European goals come in the group stages during 7-0 hidings. The Madrid system benefits him greatly and everything is directed towards him and they play in a very direct fashion by Spanish standards, hence the juggernaut comments. But surely Ronaldo should be scoring 5 goals against the better teams if he's hit a level never seen before or does that just show he scores most of these goals cannon fodder defenses?

There's always been 'cannon fodder' defenses but very few players have scored the amount of goals continuously that Ronaldo has, I'm one of those who thinks his game has changed for himself rather than the team but I think your completely underplaying his contribution during his career. He didn't just score against these defences, he had a great run of scoring against Barca, or is that down to the 'juggernaut' as well. Basically no player could ever get credit just because they play with a very good team. Every great attacking player ended up with their team being played around him, it's a simple result of being so good.

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

There's always been 'cannon fodder' defenses but very few players have scored the amount of goals continuously that Ronaldo has, I'm one of those who thinks his game has changed for himself rather than the team but I think your completely underplaying his contribution during his career. He didn't just score against these defences, he had a great run of scoring against Barca, or is that down to the 'juggernaut' as well. Basically no player could ever get credit just because they play with a very good team. Every great attacking player ended up with their team being played around him, it's a simple result of being so good.

Had he stayed with United he'd be hitting in about 15 league goals a season, probably even less these days. The disparity between the top and bottom is wider than ever, particularly in Spain, and all the teams now try and play like Barca leaving very exposed defenses all around, which includes Barca themselves. Madrid's style on top of that majorly skews the stats. You could have any top forward playing in Ronaldos role at Madrid and the result would be the same. There's very few games Madrid would have lost had Ronaldo not been there. Not one in their Champions League winning campaign either. His anonymous performance in the final with the token peno goal at the end summed him/it up...grabs all the headlines but in reality did fcuk all. Imagine Muller as the out and out striker in that Madrid team, he'd probably have over a 2.0 goal per game ratio, it would be laughable.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Suarez was a forward and still had more influence over his teams playmaking and link up play than Ronaldo ever did at United. Suarez led that team and dragged them to greater heights and they would have been fcuked without him, United would have achieved the same with or without Ronaldo, just as is the case with Madrid. 40 goals, 60 goals blah blah blah. Put it in context and wise up. There's now more disparity in the Spanish league than there ever has been and most of his European goals come in the group stages during 7-0 hidings. The Madrid system benefits him greatly and everything is directed towards him and they play in a very direct fashion by Spanish standards, hence the juggernaut comments. But surely Ronaldo should be scoring 5 goals against the better teams if he's hit a level never seen before or does that just show he scores most of these goals cannon fodder defenses?

Every single striker in the world if they make an effort will score more goals against the smaller teams than stronger teams.The difference between Ronaldo and Messi and most other players is that they show zero mercy and seem to want to push on and batter teams whereas most other teams would take a 2/3-0 and be happy they seem to want to keep scoring (probably partly due to wanting to keep ahead of the other) .

I doubt Man United would have achieved anything near the same success without Ronaldo as they had with him.

Rayne Wooney

Ignoring all the other ridiculousness, how ridiculous is the "the attack finishes at his feet" argument, as if Madrid tee the ball up on the line and wait for Ronaldo to prod it home

Messi and Ronaldo have both reached a level no other player has and possibly will, they are surely a once off

Muller scoring 2 a game in la liga gave me a right laugh, he barely manages 0.5 goals a game in the Bundesliga ffs

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Had he stayed with United he'd be hitting in about 15 league goals a season, probably even less these days. The disparity between the top and bottom is wider than ever, particularly in Spain, and all the teams now try and play like Barca leaving very exposed defenses all around, which includes Barca themselves. Madrid's style on top of that majorly skews the stats. You could have any top forward playing in Ronaldos role at Madrid and the result would be the same. There's very few games Madrid would have lost had Ronaldo not been there. Not one in their Champions League winning campaign either. His anonymous performance in the final with the token peno goal at the end summed him/it up...grabs all the headlines but in reality did fcuk all. Imagine Muller as the out and out striker in that Madrid team, he'd probably have over a 2.0 goal per game ratio, it would be laughable.

Speculative statements all round there, so vague they are easy to say. I strongly disagree that any other forward could have had the record Ronaldo has, it's such a cheap argument. Whatever about losing them, I'm not sure they would have won as many either. Real would still be a top team without Ronaldo of course, but to skewer his career stats as 'any top striker would have done the same' doesn't hold up in any form, with any level of measurement.

gimmick

Flat track bully tbh. Certainly in recent years he just goes missing in the big games and complains his team mates are not at his "level".

Rayne Wooney

gimmick wrote: »

Flat track bully tbh. Certainly in recent years he just goes missing in the big games and complains his team mates are not at his "level".

He was right even if it was unnecessary to say it, just like it was unnecessary for Messi to try get Enrique sacked.

Humans are imperfect humans shocker.

gimmick

He wasn't right. His level in such games is to go hide or stand around and give out. If everyone else was at his "level" in such matches, they would be losing a lot more games.

Rayne Wooney

Yeah I don't believe the big game myth

If you put Messi in that Madrid team in place of Ronaldo they wouldn't have beaten Atleti either.

gimmick

We are not talking about Messi though are we? We are talking about CR7 and his constant hiding in the big games.