La Liga Superthread 2016/17

Corholio

gimmick wrote: »

We are not talking about Messi though are we? We are talking about CR7 and his constant hiding in the big games.

It's only recently football wise with his dip in form, dip in effectiveness to Real. He had a fantastic run of scoring against Barca over quite a few many games. I don't agree with what he said though, and I think he regretted it with his attempt at backtracking.

The Golden Miller

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Ignoring all the other ridiculousness, how ridiculous is the "the attack finishes at his feet" argument, as if Madrid tee the ball up on the line and wait for Ronaldo to prod it home

Messi and Ronaldo have both reached a level no other player has and possibly will, they are surely a once off

Muller scoring 2 a game in la liga gave me a right laugh, he barely manages 0.5 goals a game in the Bundesliga ffs

Do you even watch Madrid play? How on earth can you possibly say each attack isn't directed at Ronaldo to finish?

Muller regularly finished with over 1.0 goal per game ratio's in a far more balanced league where the top teams weren't miles ahead of the rest which is the case in Spain. Nor were the defenses completely useless as German teams were far more balanced and didn't put all their onus on attack. Even the small teams will turn up at the Bernabeu and go for it leaving their defenses completely exposed.

Messi has reached a level other greats have, but you are having a laugh is you think Ronaldo has. How has he? Goals alone? Then he's a great striker. Nothing more. And his ratio's have regularly been matched in the past, without all these other strikers having the lopsided advantages Ronaldo has had. His goal return in the season after he bagged 31 at United shows the goal scoring level he is at on a more even playing field. And by that season he was employed as an out and out stiker

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

Speculative statements all round there, so vague they are easy to say. I strongly disagree that any other forward could have had the record Ronaldo has, it's such a cheap argument. Whatever about losing them, I'm not sure they would have won as many either. Real would still be a top team without Ronaldo of course, but to skewer his career stats as 'any top striker would have done the same' doesn't hold up in any form, with any level of measurement.

Well we'll see how the next world class main striker fares at Madrid in what will even be a more lopsided league by that point.

eagle eye

gimmick wrote: »

Flat track bully tbh. Certainly in recent years he just goes missing in the big games and complains his team mates are not at his "level".

This is such horse manure.

Last year he scored on both legs of the Champion's league semi-final against Juventus, he assisted the only goal scored over the two legs of the quarter final against Atletico, in the last 16 against Schalke he scored three, he scored home and away against Barcelona in La Liga and he scored a hat-trick in the home game against Atletico in the league but didn't score in the 5-0 away drubbing.

That is all the biggest games he played last season unless you want to count the Super Cup where he scored both goals in the 2-0 win over Sevilla.

The year before was pretty similar where he scored and assisted in the UCL final and scored two away in the semi-final against Bayern, had a goal and an assist over two league games against Barcelona and scored away against Atletico.

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well we'll see how the next world class main striker at fares at Madrid in what will even be a more lopsided league by that point.

If he has a similar record and matches Ronaldo then I'll be very happy to see it and gladly correct myself. You mentioned Muller, if you think he doesn't have a similar advantage that Ronaldo has with the team he plays for then I disagree, and the top teams in Germany are actually miles ahead of the rest. Bayern finished 13 points ahead of 3rd last year, they are 21 points ahead of 3rd so far this year.

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

If he has a similar record and matches Ronaldo then I'll be very happy to see it and gladly correct myself.

Believe me, it won't be hard. Many strikers in the past have matched his ratio's without all his advantages.

The Golden Miller

eagle eye wrote: »

This is such horse manure.

Last year he scored on both legs of the Champion's league semi-final against Juventus, he assisted the only goal scored over the two legs of the quarter final against Atletico, in the last 16 against Schalke he scored three, he scored home and away against Barcelona in La Liga and he scored a hat-trick in the home game against Atletico in the league but didn't score in the 5-0 away drubbing.

That is all the biggest games he played last season unless you want to count the Super Cup where he scored both goals in the 2-0 win over Sevilla.

The year before was pretty similar where he scored and assisted in the UCL final and scored two away in the semi-final against Bayern, had a goal and an assist over two league games against Barcelona and scored away against Atletico.

Ye that two yard pass to Chicarito due to creativity from another player. What a guy. He's a striker, he's meant to score. I noticed he pulled his usual disappearing act against Schalke when the going got tough too. Just because he actually scores some goals spoon fed from the most expensive team ever assembled doesn't actually make him one of the greatest of all time.

eagle eye

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Ye that two yard pass to Chicarito due to creativity from another player. What a guy. He's a striker, he's meant to score. I noticed he pulled his usual disappearing act against Schalke when the going got tough too. Just because he actually scores some goals spoon fed from the most expensive team ever assembled doesn't actually make him one of the greatest of all time.

A bit of advice, log off, close your eyes, take a breath, think about what you are posting and then decide if maybe you are coming across like somebody who really, really, really, really hates Cristiano Ronaldo.

I don't particularly like his personality but he is one of the greatest players ever to step on a football field and that cannot be denied.

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Believe me, it won't be hard. Many strikers in the past have matched his ratio's without all his advantages.

Have they? Which ratio's are you gonna specifically pick out?

Here's some of the big ones.

252 goals in 228 games - La Liga
74 goals in 70 games - Champions League (All time top scorer)
352 in 335 games - All competitions

He also has the best ever goal ratio in La Liga (since you mentioned 'ratio's')

Ronaldo can be a bit of a prick at times but your dismissal of his entire career is pretty shortsighted.

dr.kenneth noisewater

Can someone explain to me how Pepe is starting ahead of Varane so regularly?

Rayne Wooney

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Do you even watch Madrid play? How on earth can you possibly say each attack isn't directed at Ronaldo to finish?

Muller regularly finished with over 1.0 goal per game ratio's in a far more balanced league where the top teams weren't miles ahead of the rest which is the case in Spain. Nor were the defenses completely useless as German teams were far more balanced and didn't put all their onus on attack. Even the small teams will turn up at the Bernabeu and go for it leaving their defenses completely exposed.

Messi has reached a level other greats have, but you are having a laugh is you think Ronaldo has. How has he? Goals alone? Then he's a great striker. Nothing more. And his ratio's have regularly been matched in the past, without all these other strikers having the lopsided advantages Ronaldo has had. His goal return in the season after he bagged 31 at United shows the goal scoring level he is at on a more even playing field. And by that season he was employed as an out and out stiker

How did Brazilian Ronaldo fare at Madrid, possibly the best centre forward of all time

Glico Man

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how Pepe is starting ahead of Varane so regularly?

He would probably kill the manager if he wasn't. Total headcase.

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

Have they? Which ratio's are you gonna specifically pick out?

Here's some of the big ones.

252 goals in 228 games - La Liga
74 goals in 70 games - Champions League (All time top scorer)
352 in 335 games - All competitions

He also has the best ever goal ratio in La Liga (since you mentioned 'ratio's')

Ronaldo can be a bit of a prick at times but your dismissal of his entire career is pretty shortsighted.

Corholio wrote: »

Have they? Which ratio's are you gonna specifically pick out?

Here's some of the big ones.

252 goals in 228 games - La Liga
74 goals in 70 games - Champions League (All time top scorer)
352 in 335 games - All competitions

He also has the best ever goal ratio in La Liga (since you mentioned 'ratio's')

Ronaldo can be a bit of a prick at times but your dismissal of his entire career is pretty shortsighted.

Ah so we are being selective and only counting his time at Madrid? As I said, go and look at his goal scoring at United. Not one season is he over a ratio of 1.0, infact apart from one season he isn't even close and he was being deployed as an out and out striker in his final two seasons. The season after he bagged 31 league goals he scores a good but not great 18 or 19 goals. As for his time at Madrid I think we've covered this already. But keep reeling out "stats" because that's whats made all the true greats great. All the stats prove is he's a top goals scorer anyway, nothing else. Maybe you should go and look at some of Muller's goal returns in a tough league without any of the advantages Ronaldo has. Who would you want up front on a big European night, Ronaldo or Muller?

First half against Roma tonight is another example. Non existent in open play. Gets off one shot where he came off the wing and didn't beat one man, but I suppose that's what Ronaldo fans consider a world class dribble (I think Salah has beaten more men in that one half alone than Ronaldo has all season). A free kick that the goalie didn't even have to move for. He had a shot that Madrid created on the break which sums him up, the minute they get it he sprints straight to the box to get all the glory and has no intention of helping out in open play. He received the ball about 25 meters out near the end of the half and all he can do is take a pathetic long distance nothing shot. No craft in him whatsoever. But this guy has taken the game to new heights? Give me a break. He's not fit to lace the boots of the like of Platini, Hagi, Crujff, Zidane etc.

(PS the only reason his La Liga ratio is better than Messis since he came to La Liga is because Messi has been giving away countless peno's and tap in's to other players for well over a year at this stage. I've lost count of the amount of times he's done it this season alone)

The Golden Miller

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

How did Brazilian Ronaldo fare at Madrid, possibly the best centre forward of all time

Pretty well. Would do even better in an era of La Liga where the gap between the top 2 and the rest has become enormous (with the exception of one team). Since then Barca's tiki-taka football emerged and all teams place the onus on a passing offensive game which has greatly weakened defenses. Also, that was a fairly dire Madrid team, good players but no cohesive unit and the supply wasn't half as good. But by all means, try and take everything out of context to big up Ronaldo

Rayne Wooney

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Pretty well. Would do even better in an era of La Liga where the gap between the top 2 and the rest has become enormous (with the exception of one team). Since then Barca's tiki-taka football emerged and all teams place the onus on a passing offensive game which has greatly weakened defenses. Also, that was a fairly dire Madrid team, good players but no cohesive unit and the supply wasn't half as good. But by all means, try and take everything out of context to big up Ronaldo

Cmon man that's a cop out, the greatest striker of all time had a ratio of 0.7 goals per game in la liga when Madrid were spending hundreds of millions and the clubs minus Barca spending pennies in comparison.

Ronaldo is a phenomenon, likewise Messi. Give him some credit even if you don't like him.

The Golden Miller

Ah it looks like we're getting a real Ronaldo "masterclass" now haha. A two yard tap in in the box (where he is the only man in the box of course, sprints straight in the minute he thinks he might get some personal glory out of it) and we get to see his ingenious creativity as the "stats" show he gets an assist.....a two yards pass to someone on the overlap. I've never seen the game taken to such heights. And this is what the headlines will be.....this is what a Ronaldo "masterclass" is.

The Golden Miller

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Cmon man that's a cop out, the greatest striker of all time had a ratio of 0.7 goals per game in la liga when Madrid were spending hundreds of millions and the clubs minus Barca spending pennies in comparison.

Ronaldo is a phenomenon, likewise Messi. Give him some credit even if you don't like him.

I said he's a world class goalscorer, but certainly not better than some of the other great strikers who bagged over 1.0 ratio's in very tough leagues on a far more even playing field. Madrid 02-07 was a circus and everyone knows it, infact Ronaldo used to be dropping into midfield to try and make something happen. He could contribute to open play too. The current Ronaldo is a world class goal scorer, I've never denied that, but let's call it what it is instead of all this hyperbole as being one of the two greatest players ever. A load of nonsense. He's a very good striker, certainly not the best ever though, and certainly not close to being the greatest player ever.

eagle eye

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I said he's a world class goalscorer, but certainly not better than some of the other great strikers who bagged over 1.0 ratio's in very tough leagues on a far more even playing field. Madrid 02-07 was a circus and everyone knows it, infact Ronaldo used to be dropping into midfield to try and make something happen. He could contribute to open play too. The current Ronaldo is a world class goal scorer, I've never denied that, but let's call it what it is instead of all this hyperbole as being one of the two greatest players ever. A load of nonsense. He's a very good striker, certainly not the best ever though, and certainly not close to being the greatest player ever.

How many assists has Ronaldo this season? Surely a good number of assists shows he is more than just a goalscorer to you?

The Golden Miller

eagle eye wrote: »

How many assists has Ronaldo this season? Surely a good number of assists shows he is more than just a goalscorer to you?

Not really. Assist stats show nothing when you analyses them. Two yard passes across the box to an open man or to someone on the overlap like tonight. Of course if you spend all your time hanging around the box and every attack ends up at your feet you're gonna get them. But I suppose he's a creative genius like Pirlo because he has more assists? Just more "stats" taken out of context and reeled off by fanboys. Funny how no one can ever discuss his actual performances without having to refer to stats. He must be the only "best player of all time" where "stats" are always dragged into the argument because I don't know of any other great player where this is the case and that's telling

eagle eye

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Not really. Assist stats show nothing when you analyses them. Two yard passes across the box to an open man or to someone on the overlap like tonight. Of course if you spend all your time hanging around the box and every attack ends up at your feet you're gonna get them. But I suppose he's a creative genius like Pirlo because he has more assists? Just more "stats" taken out of context and reeled off by fanboys. Funny how no one can ever discuss his actual performances without having to refer to stats. He must be the only "best player of all time" where "stats" are always dragged into the argument because I don't know of any other great player where this is the case and that's telling

He is not the best player of all time. He is one of the greatest though.

And how dare you call me a fanboy. I don't even like him but I'm not stupid enough to post thousands of words berating him just because I don't like him. It doesn't matter whether you or I or anybody else doesn't like the man, he is still one of the greatest footballers ever. End of/

I honestly don't know how you don't feel embarrassed after all the rubbish you have posted in this thread.

The Golden Miller

eagle eye wrote: »

He is not the best player of all time. He is one of the greatest though.

And how dare you call me a fanboy. I don't even like him but I'm not stupid enough to post thousands of words berating him just because I don't like him. It doesn't matter whether you or I or anybody else doesn't like the man, he is still one of the greatest footballers ever. End of/

I honestly don't know how you don't feel embarrassed after all the rubbish you have posted in this thread.

Funny how I should feel embarrassed yet you can't actually counter what I'm saying. Without referring to stats, like we never do for the other greats, why is Ronaldo one of the best ever?

And why does he get a place in the pantheon of greats ahead of other great strikers who contribute more to the team in open play as well as score just as prolifically, if not more so in many cases?

eagle eye

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Funny how I should feel embarrassed yet you can't actually counter what I'm saying. Without referring to stats, like we never do for the other greats, why is Ronaldo one of the best ever?

And why does he get a place in the pantheon of greats ahead of other top strikers who contribute more to the team in open play as well as score just as prolifically, if not more so?

Three Ballon D'or wins mean that many, many players and coaches have considered him the best player on the planet in three different years. I don't know how many times he has been in the final three but it's a hell of a lot.

Nine times selected for the FIFPRO XI, ten times for the UEFA team of the year.

All-time top scorer in the Champion's league is another thing that is pretty special.

He has loads of other awards and records but those I mention are enough I think.

The Golden Miller

eagle eye wrote: »

Three Ballon D'or wins mean that many, many players and coaches have considered him the best player on the planet in three different years. I don't know how many times he has been in the final three but it's a hell of a lot.

Nine times selected for the FIFPRO XI, ten times for the UEFA team of the year.

All-time top scorer in the Champion's league is another thing that is pretty special.

He has loads of other awards and records but those I mention are enough I think.

Cop out response. I'm talking about what he does on the field. We don't need to constantly refer to Suarez or Messi's stats to know they are great players, nor do we for Zidane and Maradona etc. Without referring to his stats what makes him a truly great/special player?

If you still can't come up with anything apart from goals, then what places him in the pantheon of greats ahead of other strikers, many of whom were just as prolific when you factor in everything?

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Ah so we are being selective and only counting his time at Madrid? As I said, go and look at his goal scoring at United. Not one season is he over a ratio of 1.0, infact apart from one season he isn't even close and he was being deployed as an out and out striker in his final two seasons. The season after he bagged 31 league goals he scores a good but not great 18 or 19 goals. As for his time at Madrid I think we've covered this already. But keep reeling out "stats" because that's whats made all the true greats great. All the stats prove is he's a top goals scorer anyway, nothing else. Maybe you should go and look at some of Muller's goal returns in a tough league without any of the advantages Ronaldo has. Who would you want up front on a big European night, Ronaldo or Muller?

First half against Roma tonight is another example. Non existent in open play. Gets off one shot where he came off the wing and didn't beat one man, but I suppose that's what Ronaldo fans consider a world class dribble (I think Salah has beaten more men in that one half alone than Ronaldo has all season). A free kick that the goalie didn't even have to move for. He had a shot that Madrid created on the break which sums him up, the minute they get it he sprints straight to the box to get all the glory and has no intention of helping out in open play. He received the ball about 25 meters out near the end of the half and all he can do is take a pathetic long distance nothing shot. No craft in him whatsoever. But this guy has taken the game to new heights? Give me a break. He's not fit to lace the boots of the like of Platini, Hagi, Crujff, Zidane etc.

(PS the only reason his La Liga ratio is better than Messis since he came to La Liga is because Messi has been giving away countless peno's and tap in's to other players for well over a year at this stage. I've lost count of the amount of times he's done it this season alone)

Your the one who brought in stats and ratio's and told me that others have matched them easily in the past, so don't accuse me of 'reeling' them off. I also addressed this idea of Bundesliga as a 'tough' league compared to La Liga. It simply depends who you play for and both players have been playing for huge teams the last few years, there is no poor mouth for Muller either, he has plenty of advantages of playing in a huge team. I also never said anything about taking game to new heights, your making up your own stuff now and makes it inarguable when you clearly have a dislike for the guy no matter what.

We'll certainly agree to disagree.

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

Your the one who brought in stats and ratio's and told me that others have matched them easily in the past, so don't accuse me of 'reeling' them off. I also addressed this idea of Bundesliga as a 'tough' league compared to La Liga. It simply depends who you play for and both players have been playing for huge teams the last few years, there is no poor mouth for Muller either, he has plenty of advantages of playing in a huge team. I also never said anything about taking game to new heights, your making up your own stuff now and makes it inarguable when you clearly have a dislike for the guy no matter what.

We'll certainly agree to disagree.

I was referring to Gerd Muller the whole time, not Thomas Muller. I assumed that was a given when talking about great strikers. The fact it's clearly not a given going by the looks of things just goes to show how people don't rate Gerd Muller as one of the best players ever. This is despite the fact he's more prolific at scoring goals than Ronaldo, which is the only criteria needed for Ronaldo to be considered one of the best ever. Go figure. And for the record, Thomas Muller is a far better player too

CSF

Extremely worrying that all these months later people are still arguing with The Golden Miller.

chopperbyrne

I really don't get this open play argument.

He is played as an out and out striker and targetman and has been for a number of years.

In that role, he is arguably the best ever.

Nobody cared that Ruud Van Nistelrooy didn't contribute to open play, or Inzaghi, Shearer or any other top striker. Their job is to be up front and score goals. Ronaldo does this incredibly well. His movement off the ball to ensure he gets into the correct position is second to none.

MD1990

Wouldn't think Ronaldo's goals to shots ratio is that impressive. He had 14 shots last night & averages nearly 7 shots a game. Be interesting to see a comparison to players in the past if its possible.

astonaidan

Dear God, Im happy I was banned, some of the nonsense posted here is just hilarious, the only hope is he clearly knows how wrong he is just that the ego wont allow him to show it

Rayne Wooney

MD1990 wrote: »

Wouldn't think Ronaldo's goals to shots ratio is that impressive. He had 14 shots last night & averages nearly 7 shots a game. Be interesting to see a comparison to players in the past if its possible.

He scores a goal with every 6.6 shots, Messi scores with every 5.2 shots

If Ronaldo took less free kicks they'd be pretty much even I'm guessing

MisterAnarchy

He's not half bad is he

dreamers75

Messi vs Ronaldo ****e is boring as fcuk, could you put it in another thread please.

Some of us use this thread for La Liga and 90% is ****e from people who hate/love Ronaldo/messi.

Their both deadly.

And also both cnuts.

astonaidan

dreamers75 wrote: »

Messi vs Ronaldo ****e is boring as fcuk, could you put it in another thread please.

Some of us use this thread for La Liga and 90% is ****e from people who hate/love Ronaldo/messi.

Their both deadly.

And also both cnuts.

Its honestly why I think 90% of people actually avoid this thread, it always the same people with the same nonsense from the same people :mad:

klose

Cracking result for Villarreal last night v bayer.

Gbear

This Barca Getafe game has been odd.

We've seen an OG to change things up from the usual of MSN scoring.

I suppose we shouldn't be surprsied when Barca miss pens anymore, but nevertheless, it happened again (Messi).

We got a strange volleyed pass from Messi when I'm sure he could've taken a shot on, straight onto Munir's head and into the goal for 2-0.

Then Neymar get's denied an absolutely blatant penalty.

No less winning going on, but a bit of a deviation from the usual script so far.

Edit: Normal service resumed. 3-0. Neymar.

Getafe not putting up the most stalwart of defences.

miralize

Incredible play to make it 3. Roberto has made the biggest transformation & step up I've ever seen

ollie1

What a goal by Messi unreal

Bret Hart

Poor Arsenal are going too get taken apart on Wednesday.

Bret Hart

5-0 Neymar with his second.50 mins. This could end up Barca hitting double figures.

Bret Hart

6-0. 57 minutes. Turan.

Andre 3000

Messi is just taking the absolute piss here

chopperbyrne

Unfortunately, unless it's against Real or Atletico it doesn't count, so Messi and Neymar actually contributed nothing today.

astonaidan

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Unfortunately, unless it's against Real or Atletico it doesn't count, so Messi and Neymar actually contributed nothing today.

Amazing watching Messi sometimes, his passing looks lazy but then your like crap he got it through that gap :eek:

Ulysses Gaze

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I really don't get this open play argument.

He is played as an out and out striker and targetman and has been for a number of years.

In that role, he is arguably the best ever.

Nobody cared that Ruud Van Nistelrooy didn't contribute to open play, or Inzaghi, Shearer or any other top striker. Their job is to be up front and score goals. Ronaldo does this incredibly well. His movement off the ball to ensure he gets into the correct position is second to none.

No-one is saying that Van Nistelrooy, Shearer or Inzaghi amongst the greatest players to ever have played the game though.

They are with Ronaldo. For what exactly? Stuff he did at Utd almost 8 years ago now?

castletownman

Messi can't take penalties for **** though.

A spoofer Bill

Andersonisgod

Rossi with the single most Rossi goal ever. Levante lead Valencia 1-0. Valencia remain pure dross. Can't pass out from the back, can't create chances, can't defend. Outrun, out worked and out thought.

Andersonisgod

Levante just hitting it behind the Valencia centre backs and mass panic ensues.

Andersonisgod

I can't remember the last time I've seen a team in a top league that care less than this Valencia side. They just don't care. 5 yard passes hilariously misplaced, walking and light jogging back into position when the situation requires a sprint recovery run, utterly crazy decision making. Literally nobody cares. I wonder if Neville had of been in charge this entire season would they survive the drop? I'm not sure.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Great to see Rossi scoring.He's a terrific player who's career has sadly been ruined by injury.

Valencia were horrific. Abdennour,Parejo and Barragan were 3 players in particular that stood out for there ineptitude today.

eagle eye

Keylor Navas is one of the best keepers in the world. He is right up there at the top imo, I don't think there is anybody better than him.

A lot of people will look at him and they don't see the prototype for a top class goalkeeper but I watched him in the World Cup two years ago and I've watched him starting for Real Madrid this season and he is just fantastic and dominant. Real Madrid would have a lot less points without him this season.