La Liga Superthread 2016/17

Dirty Dingus McGee

Las Palmas really should have got a draw tonight.They were the better team in the second half.

Turtwig

Valencia were worse than well what I thought was their worst.

Navas is a quality quality keeper, carried Madrid to some points this season. Las Palmas didn't deserve that tbh. That said, they've been playing rather decent of late.

NIMAN

Can someone please point out to me how Rafa's Real Madrid were boring compared to Zidane's?

Cos I can't see any difference at all.

CSF

NIMAN wrote: »

Can someone please point out to me how Rafa's Real Madrid were boring compared to Zidane's?

Cos I can't see any difference at all.

Awfully toothless tonight. They've had some games where they've scored at will but seem to struggle when it's put upto them. Didn't see them getting the winner once Las Palmas had levelled.

NIMAN

CSF wrote: »

Awfully toothless tonight. They've had some games where they've scored at will but seem to struggle when it's put upto them. Didn't see them getting the winner once Las Palmas had levelled.

They once scored 10 under boring Rafa too though.

I don't see the ZZ era lasting too long tbh.

Corholio

NIMAN wrote: »

Can someone please point out to me how Rafa's Real Madrid were boring compared to Zidane's?

Cos I can't see any difference at all.

The truth is that as long as Perez is there, all different 'teams' from different managers will only differ slightly from one another. I don't think anyone has said they have been great or anything under Zidane either.

MisterAnarchy

Interesting story this

Real Madrid were told to sign Leicester City midfielder N’Golo Kante by a club scout, only to reject the idea because of his relative low profile, according to a report in Spanish newspaper El Pais.
The Spanish giants are ready to move on from German midfielder Toni Kroos and had Kante recommended to them.
But, despite the Leicester man being highlighted as the perfect signing to transition away from Kroos, the club believed that he was not a “world-class footballer”, and did not fit in with the rest of their high profile Galactico squad according to the paper.

It seems some things will never change at that club.
Kante is an excellent player and is just what Real need.
They will probably spend big in the summer now to get him.

I'm not surprised Real want to get rid of Kroos ,he was always a poor fit for them ,he is hopeless from a defensive aspect.

Meanwhile Japanese architecture firm Nikken Sekkei and Barcelona studio Pascual i Ausió Arquitectes have been selected to renovate the Camp Nou .
Dubbed the New Camp Nou, the proposal from the two architecture firms will see significant alterations to the stadium in Barcelona, Spain, which was originally designed in 1957 by Spanish architect Francesc Mitjans Miró.
The triple-tier structure will remain, but the third tier will be extended and a roof covering more than 47,000 square metres will be added to make sure all seats are sheltered from the weather.
The capacity will be increased from 99,350 to 105,000. One of the main requirements of the brief was for all of the seats to have a good view of the pitch.

Work on the revamp will begin in the summer of 2017 and is set to take four years, at a cost of €600 million (£465 million), but the Blaugrana will not be required to move out of the stadium at any point.
The development will be partly financed by a stadium sponsor, as is currently the form at clubs like Arsenal, Manchester City and Bayern Munich.
The increased earnings that will result from the bigger capacity and a loan will make up the rest of the necessary investment.

Turtwig

For all real's football woes they do seem better managed financially wise. Barca are on the brink of being unable to pay their star wages and yet are making a huge investment in expanding their stadium. All of which assumes they'll be keeping their current star tier of players. This is looking more and more like a very precarious bubble.

Corholio

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Interesting story this


It seems some things will never change at that club.
Kante is an excellent player and is just what Real need.
They will probably spend big in the summer now to get him.

I'm not surprised Real want to get rid of Kroos ,he was always a poor fit for them ,he is hopeless from a defensive aspect.

To be fair if you heard Real were signing Kante at the start of the season I'm sure you'd have been going who? He's been brilliant this season, but criticising Real for not signing or attempting to sign a player come across as just another reason to snipe at them to be honest. Not that there's a shortage of reasons there or anything, loads and loads of stuff could be correctly aimed at Real criticism wise this season.

Andersonisgod

eagle eye wrote: »

Keylor Navas is one of the best keepers in the world. He is right up there at the top imo, I don't think there is anybody better than him.

A lot of people will look at him and they don't see the prototype for a top class goalkeeper but I watched him in the World Cup two years ago and I've watched him starting for Real Madrid this season and he is just fantastic and dominant. Real Madrid would have a lot less points without him this season.

The polling of Real Madrid fans reflects this. An overwhelming majority would rather him as Madrid number 1 over De Gea. De Gea is the sexier name (for lack of a better term), he's the Spanish number 1 but take away name and hype and leave only what's on the pitch and Navas is every inch the keeper De Gea is and, imo, more.

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

To be fair if you heard Real were signing Kante at the start of the season I'm sure you'd have been going who? He's been brilliant this season, but criticising Real for not signing or attempting to sign a player come across as just another reason to snipe at them to be honest. Not that there's a shortage of reasons there or anything, loads and loads of stuff could be correctly aimed at Real criticism wise this season.

I think the issue is more Perez not listening to his own scouting department and making football decisions which he is ill-equipped to make.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The polling of Real Madrid fans reflects this. An overwhelming majority would rather him as Madrid number 1 over De Gea. De Gea is the sexier name (for lack of a better term), he's the Spanish number 1 but take away name and hype and leave only what's on the pitch and Navas is every inch the keeper De Gea is and, imo, more.

I think that's very unfair on De Gea to be honest to mention about 'taking away name and hype'. Any hype comes from his performances which have been top notch and I, personally, would still have him above Navas, who has in his own right been superb this season. I don't think Real need De Gea or anything with Navas in goal but De Gea has been a better player for longer and continues to be at that level imo.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I think the issue is more Perez not listening to his own scouting department and making football decisions which he is ill-equipped to make.

Ya I'd pretty much agree with that, Real have always needed that type of player but instead go for players who's first intentions are not to protect the area they are fixed in.

sky88

I think navas is a brilliant keeper and i never really understood why they wanted rid of him at all.

Id have him behind De gea and Neuer in terms of best goalkeepers.

plus as a united fan id love to keep de gea

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

I think that's very unfair on De Gea to be honest to mention about 'taking away name and hype'. Any hype comes from his performances which have been top notch and I, personally, would still have him above Navas, who has in his own right been superb this season. I don't think Real need De Gea or anything with Navas in goal but De Gea has been a better player for longer and continues to be at that level imo.

I'm not saying he isn't an excellent keeper, he absolutely is. I am saying though that it's inevitable he will be overly praised, because of his name, because of the club that he plays for, because he is the Spanish number 1. People love to praise a famous name. Navas is a sublime goalkeeper, but he was brought to Madrid as the number 2 to Casillas, Perez wanted to oust him for De Gea and he's the Costa Rican number 1. These things shouldn't play a part when judging a player but inevitably they do, not only on football forums but at the highest levels of the biggest clubs in football too (as we've seen many times with Perez). Marketability is an important factor, De Gea is marketable, Navas isn't.

Ulysses Gaze

Corholio wrote: »

The truth is that as long as Perez is there, all different 'teams' from different managers will only differ slightly from one another. I don't think anyone has said they have been great or anything under Zidane either.

If Perez truly loved Real Madrid, he's step down as President when his term is over.

MisterAnarchy

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I think the issue is more Perez not listening to his own scouting department and making football decisions which he is ill-equipped to make.

Exactly,that is the point I was trying to make.
Not so much that Kante wasnt a good enough footballer but more the fact he wasn't famous enough.
The article mentioned that Kante did not fit in with the rest of their high profile Galactico squad ,i.e he wasn't a big enough name .

Perez doesnt appreciate players who graft and do the dirty side of the game.
He derogatorily said of Makele ,he wasn't a header of the ball and he rarely passed the ball more than three metres.
He'd prefer the likes of Kroos who couldnt tackle his dinner.

The Golden Miller

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I can't remember the last time I've seen a team in a top league that care less than this Valencia side. They just don't care. 5 yard passes hilariously misplaced, walking and light jogging back into position when the situation requires a sprint recovery run, utterly crazy decision making. Literally nobody cares. I wonder if Neville had of been in charge this entire season would they survive the drop? I'm not sure.

They'd be bottom of the table had he been there for the full season. Who'd win, Valencia under Koeman or this Valencia side? Everytime Valencia look to be assembling a squad capable of competing with the top 2 they then go off and sign a rubbish manager who takes them backwards by about 3 years.

Harry Palmr

Sporting Gijon have just dealt Atletico a blow - 2-1

Bret Hart

A win away at El Madrigal tomorrow for Barca and it's 11 points clear and a vastly superior GD. There not going to blow that kind of lead so before the first leg against A.Madrid,they should put out the B team against Real.

The LFP won't like it but tough ****.

Xenophile

Great win for Las Palmas today, it seems the top Spanish Clubs will have to make this long flight for a domestic league again next year.

Is this the longest distance between clubs in a domestic league of any consequence ?

Mushy

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Sporting Gijon have just dealt Atletico a blow - 2-1

Involved one of the misses of the season 2 minutes before Rayo got their winner. Was a decent game by Rayo, challenged Atletico all over the pitch and deserved a result.

Andersonisgod

Goal! 1-0, it's Rakitic after the ball rebounds around after a freekick. The title draws ever closer.

Andersonisgod

Pretty poor penalty decision on favor of Barcelona from a ref whose had a pretty shoddy game. Nobody appealed but he gave it anyway. Still Messi's pass through to Neymar in the lead up to it was stunning.

Ulysses Gaze

What a game at El Madrigal.

2-0 down Villarreal look dead and buried. Asenjo then makes a terrific save from Neymar to stop him scoring his second and Barca's third.

Villarreal then go and score two in quick succession!

This one could go either way now.

Andersonisgod

Mathieu is the dirt worst.

Andersonisgod

Fantastic match. While I feel it's 2 points dropped given the situation of the game you must credit Villareal, they are a fantastic team whose collective strength far outweighs their individual qualities.

Ulysses Gaze

2-2 draw at El Madrigal.

That Barca defence is there to be got at if you can hit them quickly on the break and work your set pieces well.

dfx-

Given Atletico's slip up, that's a bonus point. Glad to be out of there with the unbeaten record intact.

callaway92

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

What a game at El Madrigal.

2-0 down Villarreal look dead and buried. Asenjo then makes a terrific save from Neymar to stop him scoring his second and Barca's third.

Villarreal then go and score two in quick succession!

This one could go either way now.

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

2-2 draw at El Madrigal.

That Barca defence is there to be got at if you can hit them quickly on the break and work your set pieces well.

Have you taken your form for writing out of AndersonIsGod's book?

Why can't people just write normally.

Turtwig

Huge let off for Valencia there.

I can easily see Barca offloading Mathieu over the summer. Complete liability for them frequently caught out of position.

astonaidan

I see Barcelona going by the book of Pep getting a amazing 2-2 draw after being two goals up, all about the away goals baby :cool:

Ulysses Gaze

Neville has to be gone now.

Andersonisgod

Without wanting to heap too much praise on Real Madrid, Keylor Navas is outstanding. Another excellent penalty save, they'd be mad to replace him.

NIMAN

Got to agree with you AIG on this one (first time for everything, eh).

He has been putstanding any time I have watched him this season. It would be a big call to get rid of him for De Gea, although he is playing really well too.

But as per the Real Madrid way, he'll probably get the boot. He would be a fantastic backup to De Gea, but I am sure a keeper of his quality would want to be playing, and there would be no shortage of top teams willing to take him onboard.

HalloweenJack

Had my eye on the Madrid Sevilla game last night. It seemed like a crazy one and 4-0 is a ridiculous result, Sevilla were a lot better than the scoreline makes out, Madrid were just more clinical in front of goal while Navas was in fine form once again.

Rayne Wooney

A Madrid win in El Classico would at least make the remaining games a little interesting

Surely Barca wouldn't throw away a 7 point lead though if it did come to it

Turtwig

Madrid have to win by five goals other wise they'll need one more point than Barca in the league.

There is surely an argument to be made though for Barca fielding their weaker players in the Clasico? The club is alive for a treble and the games against Atleti will not be easy.

gimmick

callaway92 wrote: »

Have you taken your form for writing out of AndersonIsGod's book?

Why can't people just write normally.

Your grasp of English must be pretty poor if you think the two posts you quoted are in any way flowery!!!

Dirty Dingus McGee

http://www.espnfc.com/barcelona/story/2838078/lionel-messi-hails-frank-rijkaard-as-most-important-coach

Lionel Messi: Frank Rijkaard was most important coach of my career

Lionel Messi has hailed former Barcelona boss Frank Rijkaard as the most important manager of his career, ahead of current Bayern Munich coach Pep Guardiola.

Messi, who is with Argentina for their upcoming World Cup qualifier against Bolivia, got his professional start under the Dutchman, who led the Blaugrana to two La Liga titles and just the club's second Champions League crown during his five years in charge.


Barcelona and Messi became household names during the tenure of former club midfielder Guardiola, who presided over 14 trophies, including two more Champions League triumphs, in his ultra-successful four-year reign at the club.

Despite that success, however, Messi told Egyptian station MBC that it was Rijkaard who was the most important to his career as a footballer.

"All the coaches I had at first left me things, but I think the most important thing in my career was Rijkaard," the five-time Ballon d'Or winner said.


Frank Rijkaard gave Lionel Messi his Barcelona debut at age 17.
"If he had not decided to get me in the first team to train and play perhaps I had never reached the first team."

Messi made his debut at the age of 17 under Rijkaard, making him the third-youngest debutante in Barcelona history.

He highlighted the faith the former Ajax and Milan midfielder placed in him at such a young age.

"I always said [Riikaard] was, for me, a very important person because he trusted me," Messi added.

"He made me play in the first team."

Interesting opinion from Messi.

What Rijkard did at Barcelona was hugely important as it gave the club a winning mentality after years of mediocrity and provided the foundation for what was to come in later years.

The Ronaldinhio/Rijkard team seems to be somewhat airbrushed from history in my opinion.

astonaidan

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

http://www.espnfc.com/barcelona/story/2838078/lionel-messi-hails-frank-rijkaard-as-most-important-coach





Interesting opinion from Messi.

What Rijkard did at Barcelona was hugely important as it gave the club a winning mentality after years of mediocrity and provided the foundation for what was to come in later years.

The Ronaldinhio/Rijkard team seems to be somewhat airbrushed from history in my opinion.

The team with Ronaldinho at his best with Messi coming into the team and Eto'o was one of the most entertaining and popular teams to watch in my life time. Its funny alright that it seems to get swept under the rug, but it signaled the beginning of their dominance

Turtwig

I think both Enrique's team and Rijkaard's team get swept under the rug because Pep's team need to be regarded as one of the greatest of all time.

I expect Barca to burn out this season but last season they were worthy of being compared in the same breath as Pep's team. If they can recover form this season who knows?

Either way, I regret not being able to see more of Rijkaards team play.

Andersonisgod

Turtwig wrote: »

I think both Enrique's team and Rijkaard's team get swept under the rug because Pep's team need to be regarded as one of the greatest of all time.

I expect Barca to burn out this season but last season they were worthy of being compared in the same breath as Pep's team. If they can recover form this season who knows?

Either way, I regret not being able to see more of Rijkaards team play.

I'd regard last season's team as one of the best I've ever seen. If they can go and win 2 (maybe even 3) big trophies again then they'll belong in anyone's all time greats list. My personal favourite remains Pep's Barca, particularly the 2010/2011 season.

If you want to watch more of the team from that era there's always Barca Game Pass, I'm pretty sure they are even doing a free month for first time subscribers.

HalloweenJack

I don't rate Rijkaard much as a manager, look at his record before and after Barca for the why.

That Barca team was a strong attacking side blessed with some great players and indicative of my belief that, under Laporta, the club became so well organised and such a finely tuned machine on the football side that practically any calibre of manager can come in and be a success. Look at Martino's and Vilanova's before and after records, same with Luis Enrique's before record.

They had one manager in that time who came in and revolutionised football on a wider scale, not just at Barca, and owing to that, his name is so strongly linked to the club's recent success and the Barca style. It's not fair to dismiss Rijkaard and Luis Enrique's achievements but Guardiola is a step above them and I think that's why he's rightly singled out from the other recent Barca managers.

FWIW, I prefer watching Enrique's Barca to Pep's but I can recognise that what Pep contributed to the coaching side of Barca was much more influential to football as a whole.

dfx-

I think it's very hard to overlook how much the club was in tatters towards the end of Rijkaard's era in 07/08. Looking back, there were some great days under him, the second half of 03-04 was great, but it was a shambles at the end and required emergency surgery by Guardiola.

gimmick

Turtwig wrote: »

I expect Barca to burn out this season but last season they were worthy of being compared in the same breath as Pep's team. If they can recover form this season who knows?

Recover form? Aside from letting a 2-0 lead slip away to Villareal recently their form has been pretty exceptional. maybe not as swashbuckling as pre Christmas, but a mighty strong team who are rightfully favourites in all the competitions they are still involved in.

irishguitarlad

gimmick wrote: »

Recover form? Aside from letting a 2-0 lead slip away to Villareal recently their form has been pretty exceptional. maybe not as swashbuckling as pre Christmas, but a mighty strong team who are rightfully favourites in all the competitions they are still involved in.

Yes you are right, i would however like to see some of the fringe players involved more.

The Golden Miller

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I don't rate Rijkaard much as a manager, look at his record before and after Barca for the why.

That Barca team was a strong attacking side blessed with some great players and indicative of my belief that, under Laporta, the club became so well organised and such a finely tuned machine on the football side that practically any calibre of manager can come in and be a success. Look at Martino's and Vilanova's before and after records, same with Luis Enrique's before record.

They had one manager in that time who came in and revolutionised football on a wider scale, not just at Barca, and owing to that, his name is so strongly linked to the club's recent success and the Barca style. It's not fair to dismiss Rijkaard and Luis Enrique's achievements but Guardiola is a step above them and I think that's why he's rightly singled out from the other recent Barca managers.

FWIW, I prefer watching Enrique's Barca to Pep's but I can recognise that what Pep contributed to the coaching side of Barca was much more influential to football as a whole.

I like Guardiola but I don't think he revolutionised anything

HalloweenJack

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I like Guardiola but I don't think he revolutionised anything

I feel that him and del Bosque really pressed their style of football on the world. It was definitely something new. I'm not a massive fan but I feel like it was something new and teams had to adapt to how his sides played.

The Golden Miller

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I feel that him and del Bosque really pressed their style of football on the world. It was definitely something new. I'm not a massive fan but I feel like it was something new and teams had to adapt to how his sides played.

The style originated with Ajax, and when Cruyff got involved in Barca's management he influenced the model in how La Masia brought kids through the ranks. It has nothing to do with Guardiola. We seen the first group of kids brought up under the revamped model break through circa 04-05 and there's been a continuous conveyor belt ever since. Barca will always play in the same fashion regardless of who the manager is (obviously differing slightly under each manager) unless the youth model is changed once more. Barca are all about the system, not the manager. But it takes a great manager to get the best out of the system and Guardiola understood it, he just didn't revolutionise it or modern football, Cruyff did.