La Liga Superthread 2016/17

CSF

MD1990 wrote: »

Ronaldo isn't as exciting to watch as he used to be. But his instincts & hunger for goals is incredible. Messi now needs to step up tonight for Barca. I suspect he will though.

Referee has already done all the stepping up Barca needed. They'll go through. Atletico are not set up to chase games.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

Referee has already done all the stepping up Barca needed. They'll go through. Atletico are not set up to chase games.

Conspiracy theory much? Tin foil hat reference. Trying to diminish Barcelona's achievements ect.

The morale high ground appears to be eroding.

sky88

I really just dont get the pettyness towards ronaldo and to a lesser extent messi.

They have been the two best footballers i have seen by a long mile. Personally i have found messi to be the better player but it doesnt stop me enjoying what ronaldo has done.

Both have done it against big and smaller teams. Just enjoy the two best today playing great football.

eagle eye

CSF wrote: »

Referee has already done all the stepping up Barca needed. They'll go through. Atletico are not set up to chase games.

Barca aren't set up to defend one goal leads either. It's just like a normal game really because Barca will be going for it just like always.

recylingbin

This Ronaldo lad is just a gerd muller with shoes. Apart from Hatfuls of goals, what does he do?

Arghus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'm simply giving a little timely reminder to that poster who was so quick to dismiss Wolfsburg that they are 8th in the Bundesliga. An impressive 5 points above Hamburg, level on points with Ingolstadt and only 6 points behind Mainz...

All very useful information, but maybe better left in The Bundesliga thread. Listing off the standings here is somewhat contextless. But go ahead, fill us in on the entire lot, if you wish.

What isn't quite so without context is to provide a "timely" reminder of Wolfsburgs league position. Quite a timely reminder indeed, considering that you arrived with it just at the same exact time as the general content of most the threads posts on the night was praise for Ronaldo's performance. A person might be forgiven for thinking that you were trying to express an opinion with your post, but, seemingly not, according to yourself, and to think otherwise is way off the mark - you're just keeping us bang up to date with goings on in German football: League positions, Uber Alles.

Andersonisgod

Arghus wrote: »

All very useful information, but maybe better left in The Bundesliga thread. Listing off the standings here is somewhat contextless. But go ahead, fill us in on the entire lot, if you wish.

What isn't quite so without context is to provide a "timely" reminder of Wolfsburgs league position. Quite a timely reminder indeed, considering that you arrived with it just at the same exact time as the general content of most the threads posts on the night was praise for Ronaldo's performance. A person might be forgiven for thinking that you were trying to express an opinion with your post, but, seemingly not, according to yourself, and to think otherwise is way off the mark - you're just keeping us bang up to date with goings on in German football: League positions, Uber Alles.

I'm making a play for "Best Soccer Poster on Boards.ie 2016" and a pillar of my campaign is based around providing useful information at timely moments.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Conspiracy theory much? Tin foil hat reference. Trying to diminish Barcelona's achievements ect.

The morale high ground appears to be eroding.

No this is what happened. The player who scored both Barcelona's goals shouldn't have been on the pitch. Could you actually argue otherwise?

lassykk

sky88 wrote: »

I really just dont get the pettyness towards ronaldo and to a lesser extent messi.

They have been the two best footballers i have seen by a long mile. Personally i have found messi to be the better player but it doesnt stop me enjoying what ronaldo has done.

Both have done it against big and smaller teams. Just enjoy the two best today playing great football.

I don't get it at all either. I grew up idolising Man United through the rivalry with Arsenal and to this day Dennis Bergkamp is still one of my favourite players. Just because he played for a rival doesn't mean he wasn't an amazing player.

Don't know why the Barca fans can't appreciate Ronaldo. He is a beast of a goalscorer and came good for Real last night when they needed him. If he hadn't scored everyone would be saying he went missing in a big game (albeit against a smaller club). He's held to ridiculous standards by people in here. I don't see the same resentment towards Messi going the other way but perhaps I have just missed it.

I personally don't like Barcalona all that much but I love watching Messi, Neymar and Suarez. 3 Amazing players having an amazing season. I hope they end only winning the Copa Del Rey though as I have horses in the other two races they are in!

CSF

eagle eye wrote: »

Barca aren't set up to defend one goal leads either. It's just like a normal game really because Barca will be going for it just like always.

Barca are perfectly setup to go in with a one goal lead. The best way to deal with this is to score more goals and who is better at doing this than Barca?

Arghus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'm making a play for "Best Soccer Poster on Boards.ie 2016" and a pillar of my campaign is based around providing useful information at timely moments.

You're in with a chance. Dial down the pomposity and you'll get my vote

I'll give you credit, that post last night was good: it was a rare case of succinctness in your style, with enough ambiguity for you to be insulted if someone didn't take you at your completely literal meaning. You're growing as a writer.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

No this is what happened. The player who scored both Barcelona's goals shouldn't have been on the pitch. Could you actually argue otherwise?

And you are here having a go at a poster for suggesting that Wolfsburg (8th place in the Bundesliga) aren't the toughest test in the toughest test in the world. This is what happened.

Andersonisgod

Arghus wrote: »

You're in with a chance. Dial down the pomposity and you'll get my vote

I'll give you credit, that post last night was good: it was a rare case of succinctness in your style, with enough ambiguity for you to be insulted if someone didn't take you at your completely literal meaning. You're growing as a writer.

I've had to add to my repertoire. If you feed the pigeons bread each day they become bloated and eventually it kills them. Sometimes you must give them grains of oats, in the long term it is better.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

And you are here having a go at a poster for suggesting that Wolfsburg (8th place in the Bundesliga) aren't the toughest test in the toughest test in the world. This is what happened.

If Barcelona had needed 3 goals against Sociedad at the weekend, and Messi went and got all 3 of them, I think that would be worthy of the praise being lavished in Ronaldo's direction. You'd have one of your essays after each goal, and particularly after the third one, you'd be absolutely correct in doing so. Hat tricks in any game are impressive, but when they're 3 goals that actually decide a game (rather than in the games where Barca or Real are already 5 nil up and the opposition is long mentally beaten) they mean so much more.

Then you add in that these were the goals that effectively saved Real's season (unless one subscribes to the view that they still have a chance in the league, which I don't) and it's so much bigger. Wolfsburg are not Bayern (they're not even Dortmund or Gladbach this year), but they were good enough to reach the quarterfinals of the champions league, and beat Real 2-0 in the first leg (just days after Real had won in the Nou Camp), so they're clearly a more than decent team.

People have belittled Ronaldo saying he doesn't perform when it counts (which given his Classico record is already nonsense) but those were about the most significant goals he could have scored this season. Much moreso than his winner at the Nou Camp.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

If Barcelona had needed 3 goals against Sociedad at the weekend, and Messi went and got all 3 of them, I think that would be worthy of the praise being lavished in Ronaldo's direction. You'd have one of your essays after each goal, and particularly after the third one, you'd be absolutely correct in doing so. Hat tricks in any game are impressive, but when they're 3 goals that actually decide a game (rather than in the games where Barca or Real are already 5 nil up and the opposition is long mentally beaten) they mean so much more.

Then you add in that these were the goals that effectively saved Real's season (unless one subscribes to the view that they still have a chance in the league, which I don't) and it's so much bigger. Wolfsburg are not Bayern (they're not even Dortmund or Gladbach this year), but they were good enough to reach the quarterfinals of the champions league, and beat Real 2-0 in the first leg (just days after Real had won in the Nou Camp), so they're clearly a more than decent team.

People have belittled Ronaldo saying he doesn't perform when it counts (which given his Classico record is already nonsense) but those were about the most significant goals he could have scored this season. Much moreso than his winner at the Nou Camp.

I don't remember saying otherwise. If you can show me where I've claimed that Ronaldo's goals last night weren't important or that he didn't perform well then I will happily apologise. I simply stated a fact. Perhaps that fact didn't correlate quite perfectly with your "living legend" narrative but a fact can't be twisted or manipulated, a fact is a fact.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't remember saying otherwise. If you can show me where I've claimed that Ronaldo's goals last night weren't important or that he didn't perform well then I will happily apologise. I simply stated a fact. Perhaps that fact didn't correlate quite perfectly with your "living legend" narrative but a fact can't be twisted or manipulated, a fact is a fact.

I didn't argue with you once about your post relating to Wolfsburg. Never even replied to your post on it, you replied to mine on the Atletico v Barca match and referenced me calling out someone who actually did belittle Ronaldo's performances last night. I responded in kind about why I called that person out on his post.

I know you like to make things about you a lot but you're really going to struggle to do so here.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

I didn't argue with you once about your post relating to Wolfsburg. Never even replied to your post on it, you replied to mine on the Atletico v Barca match and referenced me calling out someone who actually did belittle Ronaldo's performances last night. I responded in kind about why I called that person out on his post.

I know you like to make things about you a lot but you're really going to struggle to do so here.

Well you seem unhappy with me stating that Wolfsburg are 8th in the Bundesliga (they are). I'm simply stating that your point about the officiating in the Barca vs Atletico match is very much down to perception. Just as Ronaldo's "living legend" type performance is down to perception too.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Well you seem unhappy with me stating that Wolfsburg are 8th in the Bundesliga (they are). I'm simply stating that your point about the officiating in the Barca vs Atletico match is very much down to perception. Just as Ronaldo's "living legend" type performance is down to perception too.

How do I seem unhappy with you stating that Wolfsburg are 8th in the Bundesliga? Based on the fact that I didn't reply to the post? Based on the fact that I only referenced Wolfsburg's threat level in our conversation when you did? As you said Wolfsburg being 8th in the Bundesliga is indisputable fact. Why would I argue with fact?

You're really stretching here.

Andersonisgod

"If Barcelona had needed 3 goals against Sociedad at the weekend, and Messi went and got all 3 of them, I think that would be worthy of the praise being lavished in Ronaldo's direction. You'd have one of your essays after each goal, and particularly after the third one, you'd be absolutely correct in doing so."

Not the words of a happy man. I'd say you are too happy and too quick to liken the Wolfsburg game to games that Barcelona have been involved in recently.

I did my stretches this morning, I'm extremely limber.

CSF

You referenced Wolfsburg in your post to me. I compared a similar situation where another world class player played an 8th placed team at the weekend and how you'd have reacted to that one.

There's probably going to have to come a point here where you accept that you're wrong here and move on.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

You referenced Wolfsburg in your post to me. I compared a similar situation where another world class player played an 8th placed team at the weekend and how you'd have reacted to that one.

There's probably going to have to come a point here where you accept that you're wrong here and move on.

I believe though that you compared the 2 unfavourably, thus as an act of aggression. Your comment also is far too liberal with the use of assumption, nobody knows how I would have reacted, I don't, so you certainly don't.

Why would I admit wrongdoing when I'm working in facts and you are working in parallel universes?

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I believe though that you compared the 2 unfavourably, thus as an act of aggression. Your comment also is far too liberal with the use of assumption, nobody knows how I would have reacted, I don't, so you certainly don't.

Why would I admit wrongdoing when I'm working in facts and you are working in parallel universes?

If you believe that I compared the 2 unfavourably, that's fine. You could have given your opinion, you chose not to do so, as is your right.

But making grandiose claims that I cared about your Wolfsburg reference when I never even gave it a 2nd look is idiotic and self-serving. For someone who demands apologies so often, I'm not holding out for mine. I know you'll struggle to process this, but you can't make EVERYTHING in this thread about you.

astonaidan

This is to funny, the above comments :pac:. In other news Messi is still chasing his 500th goal, 6 games and counting. I think tonight however is the night, how often does Messi do something magical just after Ronaldo does

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

If you believe that I compared the 2 unfavourably, that's fine. You could have given your opinion, you chose not to do so, as is your right.

But making grandiose claims that I cared about your Wolfsburg reference when I never even gave it a 2nd look is idiotic and self-serving. For someone who demands apologies so often, I'm not holding out for mine. I know you'll struggle to process this, but you can't make EVERYTHING in this thread about you.

I have no intention to make everything about me. Simply I wish to state facts and dispute silly claims. I have never claimed this thread as my own personal fiefdom, rather you have thrust that upon me.

However I do believe that this conversation is neither related to Spanish football nor particularly interesting, and as I'm about to go to lunch, I will now disengage with it and leave it as is.

eagle eye

CSF wrote: »

Barca are perfectly setup to go in with a one goal lead. The best way to deal with this is to score more goals and who is better at doing this than Barca?

Yes, exactly what I said.

CSF

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes, exactly what I said.

But not a normal game for Atletico who have been unfairly treated and now go into this game at a disadvantage.

Arghus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I've had to add to my repertoire. If you feed the pigeons bread each day they become bloated and eventually it kills them. Sometimes you must give them grains of oats, in the long term it is better.

One doesn't have to be totally for the birds all the time!

Andersonisgod

Arghus wrote: »

One doesn't have to be totally for the birds all the time!

I may be hungry, but I cannot let the birds starve to death.

GreNoLi

C'mon atletico.

Toobz

So...that messi guy stepped up when his team needed him..or is that allowed to be said in here?

NIMAN

Jez, but Atleti are hard to play against.

Could this be their year?

sky88

Well it should have been a penalty but aleti deserved it

klose

sky88 wrote: »

Well it should have been a penalty but aleti deserved it

Yup, but iniesta who took the shot should have been sent off so it evens out imo.

astonaidan

Toobz wrote: »

So...that messi guy stepped up when his team needed him..or is that allowed to be said in here?

Ah I love a good Messi dig at the best of time, but their looks to be something wrong with him. His name must have been mentioned 6 times in the whole game. Maybe hes carrying a injury

Toobz

astonaidan wrote: »

Ah I love a good Messi dig at the best of time, but their looks to be something wrong with him. His name must have been mentioned 6 times in the whole game. Maybe hes carrying a injury

To be fair, as mentioned above Atletico are probably the best defensive unit in the world. Tactics were spot on tonight. But he has been looking more and more anonymous recently.

astonaidan

Toobz wrote: »

To be fair, as mentioned above Atletico are probably the best defensive unit in the world. Tactics were spot on tonight. But he has been looking more and more anonymous recently.

Ah not really just tonight Im talking about, watch his recent games, Id give him a pass tbh on Atletico containing him, he has looked well of form which for Messi usually means hes carrying something which only gets told after a month of trying to play through it

Rayne Wooney

awful showing from Messi against the plucky Copa del Rey quarter finalists

If he showed half of the guts Ronaldo showed last night they might have gone through

CSF

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

awful showing from Messi against the plucky Copa del Rey quarter finalists

If he showed half of the guts Ronaldo showed last night they might have gone through

Just to clarify Atletico are in fact 2nd in La Liga.

Andersonisgod

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

awful showing from Messi against the plucky Copa del Rey quarter finalists

If he showed half of the guts Ronaldo showed last night they might have gone through

Ehhhh what? They're ahead of your beloved Ronaldo's Real Madrid in the league.

Andersonisgod

That comment was so ridiculous I'm hoping this interesting facts will wipe the pallet clean

Of the 7 Spanish sides that started the season in Europe, 5 remain. The other 2 were knocked out by Spanish sides. Impressive.

Rayne Wooney

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ehhhh what? They're ahead of your beloved Ronaldo's Real Madrid in the league.

Were Atletico not quarter finalists in the Copa? I was merely stating a fact, not judging whatsoever

Andersonisgod

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Were Atletico not quarter finalists in the Copa? I was merely stating a fact, not judging whatsoever

I was stating a fact too. Did you enjoy my fact?

Hank Scorpio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I was stating a fact too. Did you enjoy my fact?

D-

chopperbyrne

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ehhhh what? They're ahead of your beloved Ronaldo's Real Madrid in the league.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I was stating a fact too. Did you enjoy my fact?

That's an opinion at best and wild guess at worst, not a fact.

Andersonisgod

chopperbyrne wrote: »

That's an opinion at best and wild guess at worst, not a fact.

No. Atletico are indeed ahead of Real Madrid in the league table. I've based it on the posters extensive post history in regards Ronaldo. If it smells like chicken and tastes like chicken, then it's probably chicken.

However because I am not a child I won't go into the semantics of a soccer forum court ruling on what is "fact" because I'm above that.

astonaidan

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Were Atletico not quarter finalists in the Copa? I was merely stating a fact, not judging whatsoever

I spat my tea on my laptop you bastard :pac:

mickmackey1

Finally we see some proper defending, bet those two superstars are grateful they don't have to face Atletico every week

Turtwig

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Finally we see some proper defending, bet those two superstars are grateful they don't have to face Atletico every week

They've beaten them in 7 out of 8 of their last games. Jeez.

CSF

Turtwig wrote: »

They've beaten them in 7 out of 8 of their last games. Jeez.

Atletico are clearly only improving though which surprised me because I thought that kind of football would be difficult to keep going.

Where previously Atletico were mostly a solid defensive unit, in the first half of both games Atletico were a much more potent threat. The Torres sending off obviously changed it last week but this week the Atletico rearguard was not to be denied.

Turtwig

CSF wrote: »

Atletico are clearly only improving though which surprised me because I thought that kind of football would be difficult to keep going.

Where previously Atletico were mostly a solid defensive unit, in the first half of both games Atletico were a much more potent threat. The Torres sending off obviously changed it last week but this week the Atletico rearguard was not to be denied.

If I'd more time I'd have written a match preview thread today explaining how atleti and Barca have adapted blueprints from each other. The blunt version is that the high level of technical quality in la liga means teams are very tactically flexible. Player positions are less restricted by their abilities. As a result teams had adapted to atleti by coaxing them into breaking them down. In these type of games atleti play Griezemann in a false nine role and methodically break down defences