La Liga Superthread 2016/17

Andersonisgod

Messi! Messi! He's taken over this gane, it's Messi's game now.

Mars Bar

Ah what a time to not control the ball in the box

irishguitarlad

Feel sorry for nzonzi, no help at all in midfield.

Gbear

Messi's looking dangerous but the gravity is turning off every time he takes a shot.

LuckyGent88

Huge save to keep Sevilla in the game

dfx-

Two extremely difficult away games out of the way with a huge six points. Atletico or Madrid won't be any harder than that.

Sociedad away will still be a defeat though.:rolleyes:

Andersonisgod

Yes! Yes! Massive win! Mascherano and Umtiti at the back were excellent, Busquets 2nd half was immense, Enrique got it spot on in the second half and yet none of that matters. Absolutely none of that matters without Messi.

Away at Sevilla, 1-0 down after suffering defeat midweek away to Man City it did not look good, especially considering how dominant Sevilla were in the first 40 minutes and yet it is Messi who takes the gake and the 3 points from Sevilla. If Ronaldo won a Balon D'or based on that 1 Portugal vs Sweden game then Messi more than warrants the golden ball for his showing here tonight. When you speak of the greats of the game you xan maybe list a few of their great performances in the big matches, Messi has too many to remember and this was another. He is the world's greatest player, he is almost certainly the greatest player ever and for Barcelona he is everything. When you walk around the streets of Barcelona and you see and hear the players faces and names everywhere and you know these guys are treated like demi-gods, it's nights like this that remind you why Messi is treated as a god above all others by the people of Barcelona. He's just different.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Yes! Yes! Massive win! Mascherano and Umtiti at the back were excellent, Busquets 2nd half was immense, Enrique got it spot on in the second half and yet none of that matters. Absolutely none of that matters without Messi.

Away at Sevilla, 1-0 down after suffering defeat midweek away to Man City it did not look good, especially considering how dominant Sevilla were in the first 40 minutes and yet it is Messi who takes the gake and the 3 points from Sevilla. If Ronaldo won a Balon D'or based on that 1 Portugal vs Sweden game then Messi more than warrants the golden ball for his showing here tonight. When you speak of the greats of the game you xan maybe list a few of their great performances in the big matches, Messi has too many to remember and this was another. He is the world's greatest player, he is almost certainly the greatest player ever and for Barcelona he is everything. When you walk around the streets of Barcelona and you see and hear the players faces and names everywhere and you know these guys are treated like demi-gods, it's nights like this that remind you why Messi is treated as a god above all others by the people of Barcelona. He's just different.

He's not going to get it nor would he deserve to.The award is effectively based on the 2015/16 season and based on that Suarez or Ronaldo are ahead of him.

Andersonisgod

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He's not going to get it nor would he deserve to.The award is effectively based on the 2015/16 season and based on that Suarez or Ronaldo are ahead of him.

Based on what? Question, how many goals dod Ronaldo score in the knockout rounds for Portugal in Euros or Real Madrid in Cl? What's Ronaldo's goals+assists tally for the year and what's Messi's? Has Ronaldo dribbled past the same number of players as Umtiti has this season? It's an individual award! His impact for club and country in the big games was nonexistent! It actually does also take into account the first few months of this season, in which he's probably not even been top 5 at Real Madrid let alone world football. Giving it to anyone but Messi is a joke.

MD1990

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He's not going to get it nor would he deserve to.The award is effectively based on the 2015/16 season and based on that Suarez or Ronaldo are ahead of him.

Messi has been better than both. Ronaldo has declined in the last year massively .Scoring penalties & acting as a manager should not mask this. Ronaldo is a great goalscorer but not the player he was loss of pace has affected him badly. Suarez has been brillant but he himself would know Messi has been better.

Dirty Dingus McGee

MD1990 wrote: »

Messi has been better than both. Ronaldo has declined in the last year massively .Scoring penalties & acting as a manager should not mask this. Ronaldo is a great goalscorer but not the player he was loss of pace has affected him badly. Suarez has been brillant but he himself would know Messi has been better.

Ronaldo was brilliant last season and his teams won the 2 biggest trophies of the year and team success has a massive influence on the Ballon D'or.

I personally don't think Messi was quite as good as either of them last season.The award is effectively for the 2015-16 season and so what has happened this season where clearly Messi has been better than both but it won't be taken into consideration and clearly Messi over his career is a better player than both but that won't be taken into consideration.

Andersonisgod

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Ronaldo was brilliant last season and his teams won the 2 biggest trophies of the year and team success has a massive influence on the Ballon D'or.

I personally don't think Messi was quite as good as either of them last season.The award is effectively for the 2015-16 season and so what has happened this season where clearly Messi has been better than both but it won't be taken into consideration and clearly Messi over his career is a better player than both but that won't be taken into consideration.

I'd definitely dispute how brilliant he was, particularly in the important games (fyi the knockout round games). I also don't see how team success should have a bearing on an individual award, and, if it does, then the award should go to Pepe who was more influential than Ronaldo in the key games of both trophy successes.

MD1990

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Ronaldo was brilliant last season and his teams won the 2 biggest trophies of the year and team success has a massive influence on the Ballon D'or.

I personally don't think Messi was quite as good as either of them last season.The award is effectively for the 2015-16 season and so what has happened this season where clearly Messi has been better than both but it won't be taken into consideration and clearly Messi over his career is a better player than both but that won't be taken into consideration.

Ronaldo won the award in 2013 for his Sweden performance in November though as the voting period was extended after that game. He deserved that year too as he was brillant.

Last season I thought in majority of the important games he was poor.
CL no goals in the semi finals & final. Portugal won the Euro's while he was injured. He did score a great goal against Wales.

Not just that Ronaldo now doesn't have many moments that get you off your seat. Less long range strikes very few dribbles more so he is now a very efficient goalscorer.

While Messi still has those moments. Like his goal tonight & magical dribble in the 2nd half & wonderful assists as well.

Burial.

https://twitter.com/messistats/status/795387128796631040

Messi or Suarez. It really isn't close after that. And lol @ team results have influence on an individual award. F*ck logic.

Dirty Dingus McGee

MD1990 wrote: »

Ronaldo won the award in 2013 for his Sweden performance in November though as the voting period was extended after that game. He deserved that year too as he was brillant.

Last season I thought in majority of the important games he was poor.
CL no goals in the semi finals & final. Portugal won the Euro's while he was injured. He did score a great goal against Wales.

Not just that Ronaldo now doesn't have many moments that get you off your seat. Less long range strikes very few dribbles more so he is now a very efficient goalscorer.

While Messi still has those moments. Like his goal tonight & magical dribble in the 2nd half & wonderful assists as well.

He did score a hat trick in the quarters when they were trailing by 2 goals he also scored in the semi final of the euros .

I think he just edges it because of the team success he contributed to.That tends to be what decides it and seeing as it is a team sport it's not a bad way to look at it.

Burial.

Apparently 25% of the Ballon D'or will be decided by the fans which means Suarez has a 0% chance of winning as Messi and Ronaldo fanboys are almost a 50/50 split of the human population.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Burial. wrote: »

https://twitter.com/messistats/status/795387128796631040

Messi or Suarez. It really isn't close after that. And lol @ team results have influence on an individual award. F*ck logic.

They do.It's a team sport therefore team results will always have an influence, look back at the Ballon D'or winners over the years and very rarely do players from unsuccessful teams win the award.

Burial.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

They do.It's a team sport therefore team results will always have an influence, look back at the Ballon D'or winners over the years and very rarely do players from unsuccessful teams win the award.

The best players tend to play for the best teams more like. And Barcelona were hardly starved. Spanish double, Super Cup and The Club World Cup (they all count) is a pretty handy year.

MD1990

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He did score a hat trick in the quarters when they were trailing by 2 goals he also scored in the semi final of the euros .

I think he just edges it because of the team success he contributed to.That tends to be what decides it and seeing as it is a team sport it's not a bad way to look at it.

He did but it was against Wolfsburg they finished 8th in the Bundesliga it was the quarter final but the opposition wasn't top quality really the same thing could be said about Wales too.
I would even say Bale is Real Madrid's best attacker now anyway. He was excellent in the CL final & in the Euro's.

Rayne Wooney

Ronaldo was just a coincidental tag along on the teams that won the two biggest competitions of the year.

A nothing player Bill.

Andersonisgod

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Ronaldo was just a coincidental tag along on the teams that won the two biggest competitions of the year.

A nothing player Bill.

So was Pepe. Give him the Balon D'or, he actually played all the final of the Euros too and was more influential than Ronaldo for both teams in the knockout games.

Not a nothing player but a player far past his best who, if his club side decided their starting 11 on form, might struggle to make the starting team.

Andersonisgod

Anyway I don't know why we are talking about Ronaldo tonight because he's an irrelevance.

I'm just going to post a quote I've seen doing the rounds on Twitter and leave it at that. This comes from a Spanish TV commentator: "Today Messi has been both Messi & Xavi. I don't know what the limit of this genius is, or if he has one."

eagle eye

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Anyway I don't know why we are talking about Ronaldo tonight because he's an irrelevance.

I'm just going to post a quote I've seen doing the rounds on Twitter and leave it at that. This comes from a Spanish TV commentator: "Today Messi has been both Messi & Xavi. I don't know what the limit of this genius is, or if he has one."

Commentators get carried away as we all know.

Fact of the matter is that Xavi won two Euros and a World Cup without Messi. Messi has done nothing without a gifted bunch of players around him. Even Argentina has a really good squad but he has never done his thing with them to anywhere near the standard he has at Barcelona.

The question has to be asked if he is a better product because of a system rather than a great player in his own right. Ronaldo has done it for two different clubs and for his country as well even if he didn't play a huge part in the final of the Euros.

Dirty Dingus McGee

eagle eye wrote: »

Commentators get carried away as we all know.

Fact of the matter is that Xavi won two Euros and a World Cup without Messi. Messi has done nothing without a gifted bunch of players around him. Even Argentina has a really good squad but he has never done his thing with them to anywhere near the standard he has at Barcelona.

The question has to be asked if he is a better product because of a system rather than a great player in his own right. Ronaldo has done it for two different clubs and for his country as well even if he didn't play a huge part in the final of the Euros.

Well that's bull in fairness. Messi has got Argentina to a bucket load of finals.

elefant

eagle eye wrote: »

Commentators get carried away as we all know.

Fact of the matter is that Xavi won two Euros and a World Cup without Messi. Messi has done nothing without a gifted bunch of players around him. Even Argentina has a really good squad but he has never done his thing with them to anywhere near the standard he has at Barcelona.

The question has to be asked if he is a better product because of a system rather than a great player in his own right. Ronaldo has done it for two different clubs and for his country as well even if he didn't play a huge part in the final of the Euros.

How can anyone seriously ask this question?

That's actually mind-bending stuff.

Andersonisgod

eagle eye wrote: »

Commentators get carried away as we all know.

Fact of the matter is that Xavi won two Euros and a World Cup without Messi. Messi has done nothing without a gifted bunch of players around him. Even Argentina has a really good squad but he has never done his thing with them to anywhere near the standard he has at Barcelona.

The question has to be asked if he is a better product because of a system rather than a great player in his own right. Ronaldo has done it for two different clubs and for his country as well even if he didn't play a huge part in the final of the Euros.

Eagle Eye's logic: Ronaldo is better because Eder scored a goal in a game in which Ronaldo barely played a part. Ronaldo is better because Juanfran missed a penalty.

Also to add to the fun you've managed to completely misinterpret the meaning of that quote. Commendable.

TheNap

Most goals Messi
Most assists Messi
Most successful dribbles Messi
Most chances created Messi

La Liga Messi
Copa Del Rey Messi
Reason an awful Argentina got the Copa America Final Messi

2015/2016 has been his year , again .

sky88

I dont think either messi or ronaldo have been as good as suarez last season. The goals and assists have still flown in but thats not everything when looking at player of the year.

GavRedKing

Ronaldo, if he wins this Balon d'or, and winning the Euros and UCL will give him a serious advantage over Messi, will probably be his last.

Once Messi and Ronaldo stop winning them in the very near future, its probably going to be Neymar to taking up the mantle.

brevity

Messi leading the line.

Turtwig

Have to say like many others I do not think CR7 has done anything to warrant the ballon d'or this year. It's a bit like Pinto winning all those trophies for barca and then using that as a logic to decide he must be a great goal keeper. Ronaldo is undoubtedly still world class, but last season his influence in many games, especially those against higher tiered opponents was minimal. Messi was considerably the better player imo.

GavRedKing

Turtwig wrote: »

Have to say like many others I do not think CR7 has done anything to warrant the ballon d'or this year. It's a bit like Pinto winning all those trophies for barca and then using that as a logic to decide he must be a great goal keeper. Ronaldo is undoubtedly still world class, but last season his influence in many games, especially those against higher tiered opponents was minimal. Messi was considerably the better player imo.

That being the truth, I'm still expecting Ronaldo to win it, people will see the UCL and Euros victories and nothing passed them.

Turtwig

GavRedKing wrote: »

That being the truth, I'm still expecting Ronaldo to win it, people will see the UCL and Euros victories and nothing passed them.

Same.

MisterAnarchy

Suarez is definitely more deserving of the Ballon D'Or than Ronaldo.
Suarez scored 40 goals in La Liga last season as Barca won the title, winning the European Golden Shoe and ending the campaign with 59 goals in all competitions.
That's phenomenal goalscoring.
After such a huge money move from Liverpool and the added pressure after his biting incident in 2014 ,Suarez has proven himself to be the best striker on the planet.

Regarding the Ballon D'Or, France Football has announced new rule changes for its Ballon d'Or award.
The magazine has ended its six-year association with FIFA -- a relationship in which the Ballon d'Or and FIFA's World Player of the Year combined to award the world's best player.
Before the partnership with FIFA, the Ballon d'Or was given to the top European player from 1956 from 1994. And between 1995 and 2009, it was awarded to the best player from any continent playing at a European club.
Voting for the award will return to a select group of international journalists, which leaves out the input of national team captains and coaches.

FIFA’S RIVAL TO the Ballon d’Or ,‘The Best’ awards are to be handed out to the world’s leading footballers in January.
With the FIFA Ballon d’Or having ceased to exist after the contract between France Football and the world game’s governing body expired, FIFA has unveiled their replacement.
And it will include greater fan participation thanks to a new voting system in the player and coach of the year categories.
The winners will be chosen via a process in which 50 per cent of the result is based on the choices of captains and head coaches of all of the world’s national teams.
The other 50 per cent will be split between the result of an online public ballot and the submissions from a selected group of more than 200 media representatives from around the world.

Andersonisgod

I do think it's worth repeating that in the league Ronaldo has managed to dribble past the same number of players as Samuel Umtiti (5) this being despite the fact that Ronaldo has played 150 more minutes than Umtiti.

sky88

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I do think it's worth repeating that in the league Ronaldo has managed to dribble past the same number of players as Samuel Umtiti (5) this being despite the fact that Ronaldo has played 150 more minutes than Umtiti.

i think your putting far too much into dribbling stats

GavRedKing

sky88 wrote: »

i think your putting far too much into dribbling stats

If you're a winger/wide forward and you're not dribbling or not having success with it, a key part of your game is nullified.

Andersonisgod

sky88 wrote: »

i think your putting far too much into dribbling stats

And I think you are refusing to acknowledge a very obvious and marked decline in Ronaldo's contribution. Without being overly dramatic I don't think it'd e too far wide of the mark to say thay Ronaldo is Real Madrid's Rooney, only in slightly better condition.

zuutroy

Ronnie is a cert to the Ballon. Anyone who thinks otherwise is crackers. I don't like the guy but he's nailed on.

MisterAnarchy

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Without being overly dramatic I don't think it'd e too far wide of the mark to say thay Ronaldo is Real Madrid's Rooney, only in slightly better condition.

Ah now ,come off it AIG ,I like your posts but your having a laugh, Rooney isnt fit to lace Ronnies boots (never was either).



Rooney has been finished for at least 3 years ,Ronaldo is still banging in the goals left right and centre .
Sure he has lost a bit of pace ,tendonitis does that but would I still want Ronaldo in my team or back at United ,yes please.

eagle eye

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Eagle Eye's logic: Ronaldo is better because Eder scored a goal in a game in which Ronaldo barely played a part. Ronaldo is better because Juanfran missed a penalty.

Also to add to the fun you've managed to completely misinterpret the meaning of that quote. Commendable.

It's just like you to accuse me of something I never said.

I never said Ronaldo was better than Messi, I just said that the question has to be asked.

I know others accused me of saying the same thing but you are forever moaning about other people accusing you of saying stuff you claim you never said. So really you should have more cop on than to go accusing somebody of saying something they didn't.

Andersonisgod

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Ah now ,come off it AIG ,I like your posts but your having a laugh, Rooney isnt fit to lace Ronnies boots (never was either).



Rooney has been finished for at least 3 years ,Ronaldo is still banging in the goals left right and centre .
Sure he has lost a bit of pace ,tendonitis does that but would I still want Ronaldo in my team or back at United ,yes please.

It's not that Ronaldo has declined to the same level of Rooney (he absolutely hasn't) but rather that both players find themselves in a similar situation. Both are clearly past their best (though clearly Ronaldo is still playing at a higher level than Rooney) and both find themselves in a strange situation at massive clubs where they are both in the process of being overtaken as the main man at their respective clubs and both arguably shouldn't even be in their respective starting 11's based on form but retain their places moreso on name and reputation alone.

I'd also say that in terms of deciding really big games against top teams Ronaldo's time is coming to a close, he looks a shadow of the player he was even 18 months back.

chopperbyrne

So far this season Ronaldo has played 12 competitive matches and has 7 goals and 5 assists.

It's a dip in form for Ronaldo certainly, but still better than most strikers, and at a comparable level to someone like Griezmann who is 14, 8, and 5.

Does he deserve the Ballon d'Or, maybe not, but it will be no surprise if he wins it based on the two huge trophies he won with Real Madrid and Portugal last season.

sky88

Andersonisgod wrote: »

And I think you are refusing to acknowledge a very obvious and marked decline in Ronaldo's contribution. Without being overly dramatic I don't think it'd e too far wide of the mark to say thay Ronaldo is Real Madrid's Rooney, only in slightly better condition.

if you look at my posts above i think youll see that i have picked suarez as player of the year. ronaldo contributes little to general play nowdays and has become a goalscorer more then anything.

MD1990

Very good article by Graham Hunter on Ronaldo

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/club/real-madrid/86/blog/post/2991822/cristiano-ronaldo-contract-good-business-for-real-madridbut-will-he-be-worth-it

elefant

eagle eye wrote: »

It's just like you to accuse me of something I never said.

I never said Ronaldo was better than Messi, I just said that the question has to be asked.

I know others accused me of saying the same thing but you are forever moaning about other people accusing you of saying stuff you claim you never said. So really you should have more cop on than to go accusing somebody of saying something they didn't.

You said the question has to be asked if Messi is actually a great player.

The Golden Miller

I have to laugh when people are talking about Ronaldo's "dip in form". Nothing has changed except the drying up of goals, exposing how little he actually contributes in general. Ronaldo is playing exactly the way he has been for the past few seasons but without scoring as much e.g poor at dribbling, poor at playmaking, lacking in technical ability etc. Except now the little fanboys can't willfully ignore this and hide behind his disingenuous "goal stats"

eagle eye

elefant wrote: »

You said the question has to be asked if Messi is actually a great player.

I presumed that people would understand that I was talking about 'best in the world' levels of greatness as the rest of my post should make that clear I think.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I have to laugh when people are talking about Ronaldo's "dip in form". Nothing has changed except the drying up of goals, exposing how little he actually contributes in general. Ronaldo is playing exactly the way he has been for the past few seasons but without scoring as much e.g poor at dribbling, poor at playmaking, lacking in technical ability etc. Except now the little fanboys can't willfully ignore this and hide behind his disingenuous "goal stats"

Last season 48 Games played 51 goals scored
This season 12 games played 7 goals scored.

That's hardly a drying up of goals.

GavRedKing

By Ronaldos excpetionally high standards, if hes not on or over a goal a game, its a "poor" season, thats just how high he and Messi set the bar.

When it comes to Ronaldo and Messi, 40 + goals a season is seen as the norm unfortunately for the poor bas*ards living in their shadow, however, both will slow down in the next 3 years and theres signs of it already in Ronaldos game and I'm not just talking about goals either.