La Liga Superthread 2016/17

eagle eye

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I have to laugh when people are talking about Ronaldo's "dip in form". Nothing has changed except the drying up of goals, exposing how little he actually contributes in general. Ronaldo is playing exactly the way he has been for the past few seasons but without scoring as much e.g poor at dribbling, poor at playmaking, lacking in technical ability etc. Except now the little fanboys can't willfully ignore this and hide behind his disingenuous "goal stats"

In all fairness you are the most biased person posted here because you can't hide your disdain for the man. This post is absolutely ridiculous.

I'd like to believe that you just haven't seen him play that often but the vile in your post just makes that impossible. He has become more of a team player over the last season and a half. He has five goals and two assists in La Liga so far this season. He scored 35 goals and 11 assists last season in La Liga in 36 games which is phenomenal. Last year he had 6 goals and 2 assists after 8 games, this year he has 5 goals and 2 assists after eight games. Where is this 'drying up of goals' you talk about?

I've never been a fan of his personality and I really don't like him as a person based off of what I've seen of him over the years but that doesn't stop me from respecting what a great, great player he is and has been over the last decade or so.

Andersonisgod

eagle eye wrote: »

In all fairness you are the most biased person posted here because you can't hide your disdain for the man. This post is absolutely ridiculous.

I'd like to believe that you just haven't seen him play that often but the vile in your post just makes that impossible. He has become more of a team player over the last season and a half. He has five goals and two assists in La Liga so far this season. He scored 35 goals and 11 assists last season in La Liga in 36 games which is phenomenal. Last year he had 6 goals and 2 assists after 8 games, this year he has 5 goals and 2 assists after eight games. Where is this 'drying up of goals' you talk about?

I've never been a fan of his personality and I really don't like him as a person based off of what I've seen of him over the years but that doesn't stop me from respecting what a great, great player he is and has been over the last decade or so.

Can't deny I lol'ed at the suggestion that he has become more of a team player. As it's become increasingly more obvious that his powers are on the wane it's only made Ronaldo more resolute in caring only about Ronaldo, if anything the man has never been so self-centered (football-wise) to the point where unless it is Ronaldo scoring he doesn't seem to care at all, team achievements have been firmly put on the back-burner in Ronaldo's pursuit of individual glory.

The drying up is very obvious too to anybody who bothers to watch his matches. His record is padded with goals against small teams (and even then his record against those isn't what it used to be either) and while you can't play and score against Barcelona every week, the difference between him and Messi is that Messi is (and always has) been deciding the biggest games along with doing it against the smaller teams too. Where Ronaldo is slowly (but surely) being pushed into the shadows at Real Madrid, Messi is more important to Barcelona than ever before.

Ulysses Gaze

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Can't deny I lol'ed at the suggestion that he has become more of a team player. As it's become increasingly more obvious that his powers are on the wane it's only made Ronaldo more resolute in caring only about Ronaldo, if anything the man has never been so self-centered (football-wise) to the point where unless it is Ronaldo scoring he doesn't seem to care at all, team achievements have been firmly put on the back-burner in Ronaldo's pursuit of individual glory.

The drying up is very obvious too to anybody who bothers to watch his matches. His record is padded with goals against small teams (and even then his record against those isn't what it used to be either) and while you can't play and score against Barcelona every week, the difference between him and Messi is that Messi is (and always has) been deciding the biggest games along with doing it against the smaller teams too. Where Ronaldo is slowly (but surely) being pushed into the shadows at Real Madrid, Messi is more important to Barcelona than ever before.

His new 5 year deal would suggest otherwise....

Andersonisgod

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

His new 5 year deal would suggest otherwise....

There's about as much a chance of Zidane being the head coach in 5 years time as there is of Ronaldo still being at that club. That new contract is purely for marketing purposes, nothing more.

Rayne Wooney

It's going to hurt a lot of people when Ronaldo wins it

Andersonisgod

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It's going to hurt a lot of people when Ronaldo wins it

He'll win it due to the heavy marketing machine behind him, wont make it any more warranted because it no way, no matter how you try to frame it, has he been better than Messi. I'll also go the Pique route and say he's never been better than Messi, not for a year, not for a season, not for a month, a week, a day, an hour, a minute or a second. He'll never know what it's like to be truly better than Messi.

Brendan Flowers

There is no other player more talented than Messi. Thats a given. The man is gifted. But Ronaldo's work rate and determination to be the best is unrivaled IMO. To be World Footballer of the Year 2 years in a row and very possibly again this year when he is up against someone like Messi speaks volumes. He might not be a better footballer overall than Messi, but he has played better than him for extended periods of time.

Arghus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

He'll win it due to the heavy marketing machine behind him, wont make it any more warranted because it no way, no matter how you try to frame it, has he been better than Messi. I'll also go the Pique route and say he's never been better than Messi, not for a year, not for a season, not for a month, a week, a day, an hour, a minute or a second. He'll never know what it's like to be truly better than Messi.

Surely there was the occasional nano-second in there where he had the edge - even a solitary picosecond?

Corholio

Being a better player overall isn't the same as being the best player in a given year. I don't think Ronaldo deserves to win it this year, Messi and the should be winner Suarez would be ahead of him, but this whole 'Messi is the better player' every year regardless of the 12 months that's gone before is ridiculous and is a debate buzz kill every time.

Turtwig

This is the first year in a long while where I think the recipient of the award may be the wrong choice.

NIMAN

Seems a risky move for Real Madrid to take.

OK, I know their thinking is that some other team will likely want to buy him before the end of this new contract, and it will ensure they get a transfer fee, but he is definitely not the player he used to be, and should they end up 'stuck with him' when he is no longer a force, they still have to pay him the crazy wages.

It might backfire on them.

sky88

The biased nature of some fans towards both men is unreal, clearly people are just glossing over facts on both sides.

can we just not appreciate that we have the best footballers ever in my lifespan anyway by miles. both are so great and when both are at the top of their form its very close between them. i think messi has just shaded it over the years

TheNap

sky88 wrote: »

The biased nature of some fans towards both men is unreal, clearly people are just glossing over facts on both sides.

can we just not appreciate that we have the best footballers ever in my lifespan anyway by miles. both are so great and when both are at the top of their form its very close between them. i think messi has just shaded it over the years

Messi yes. However i have seen players better than Ronaldo and im only nearing 30

Van Basten
Maldini
Ronaldo
Possibly Zidane and Iniesta

If we are talking about goalscoring he'd be right up there alright . I actually think the best we saw of Ronaldo was his last season in England.

GavRedKing

Andersonisgod wrote: »

He'll win it due to the heavy marketing machine behind him, wont make it any more warranted because it no way, no matter how you try to frame it, has he been better than Messi. I'll also go the Pique route and say he's never been better than Messi, not for a year, not for a season, not for a month, a week, a day, an hour, a minute or a second. He'll never know what it's like to be truly better than Messi.

Ronaldo is older, stands to reason he was better than Messi for awhile at least.

/pedantic.

:pac:

sky88

TheNap wrote: »

Messi yes. However i have seen players better than Ronaldo and im only nearing 30

Van Basten
Maldini
Ronaldo
Possibly Zidane and Iniesta

If we are talking about goalscoring he'd be right up there alright . I actually think the best we saw of Ronaldo was his last season in England.

im nearing 30 myself and tbh i remember very little of van basten at all.

the rest were all sensational players but id have zidane the closet too c.ronaldo.

Ronaldo would be next but his form later became inconsistent not dissimilar to c.ronaldo now.

As a united fan i actually found him not up too his best in his final season.

Dirty Dingus McGee

TheNap wrote: »

Messi yes. However i have seen players better than Ronaldo and im only nearing 30

Van Basten
Maldini
Ronaldo
Possibly Zidane and Iniesta

If we are talking about goalscoring he'd be right up there alright . I actually think the best we saw of Ronaldo was his last season in England.

Was his second last season at Man Utd not his best season in England that was the season Man Utd won the Champions League.He won the Ballon Do'r and PFA player of the year that year and was ahead of Messi at that stage.

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Was his second last season at Man Utd not his best season in England that was the season Man Utd won the Champions League.He won the Ballon Do'r and PFA player of the year that year and was ahead of Messi at that stage.

Was he? Barca were in transition that year, yet Messi still got man of the match in the two legs against United in the semi-final, whereas Ronaldo never touched a ball. Messi was also just back from an injury if I'm not mistaken. This was before the Xavi and Iniesta partnership bore fruition and it was left to Messi to run the show by himself in midfield. Over those two legs alone, Messi displayed all-round attributes way ahead of anything Ronaldo was capable of. Ronaldo got the FIFA player of the year by default, due to him being Uniteds top scorer in a successful campaign, not because he actually was the best in the world.

Rayne Wooney

I like how people say well he's just a goalscorer as if it's some kind of negative, Ronaldo can score the same and more than Messi without the need for the mazy runs. He has simplified football, possibly the greatest of all time, 4 Balon dOrs to 5 is fair given Messi had the greatest squad of all time around him thus his ability would have been more exaggerated.

Andersonisgod

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I like how people say well he's just a goalscorer as if it's some kind of negative, Ronaldo can score the same and more than Messi without the need for the mazy runs. He has simplified football, possibly the greatest of all time, 4 Balon dOrs to 5 is fair given Messi had the greatest squad of all time around him thus his ability would have been more exaggerated.

This is my new all time favourite comment. Cristiano Ronaldo....football simpiliser. Who needs mazy runs when tap ins against Malmo will do?

I mean, it's not like football is a team game or anything....

Burial.

Had me until "without the mazy runs". You think he'd have learned from the battering he got in the L'pool thread. God loves a trier.

Rayne Wooney

Burial. wrote: »

Had me until "without the mazy runs". You think he'd have learned from the battering he got in the L'pool thread. God loves a trier.

What's this nonsense?

Andersonisgod

Burial. wrote: »

Had me until "without the mazy runs". You think he'd have learned from the battering he got in the L'pool thread. God loves a trier.

I'll admit I do enjoy his catchphrase thing though.

CSF

Turtwig wrote: »

This is the first year in a long while where I think the recipient of the award may be the wrong choice.

Yeah there's no way he deserves to win it this year. I actually think this assumption people have that he will win it because of the Euros and Champions League might not be true either. These people are watching football and will have seen that Ronaldo has been a shadow of his former self.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Was he? Barca were in transition that year, yet Messi still got man of the match in the two legs against United in the semi-final, whereas Ronaldo never touched a ball. Messi was also just back from an injury if I'm not mistaken. This was before the Xavi and Iniesta partnership bore fruition and it was left to Messi to run the show by himself in midfield. Over those two legs alone, Messi displayed all-round attributes way ahead of anything Ronaldo was capable of. Ronaldo got the FIFA player of the year by default, due to him being Uniteds top scorer in a successful campaign, not because he actually was the best in the world.

No.I think he got it because he was the best player in the world that year.Top scorer in the champions league and European Golden Shoe winner. He ripped it up in the premier league that year (when it actually was the best league in the world) .He won both the Ballon D'Or and FIFA world player of the year that year finishing well ahead of Messi in the voting.They can't all have been wrong.

You almost seem to view scoring goals as some sort of negative attribute a player can possess.

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

No.I think he got it because he was the best player in the world that year.Top scorer in the champions league and European Golden Shoe winner. He ripped it up in the premier league that year (when it actually was the best league in the world) .He won both the Ballon D'Or and FIFA world player of the year that year finishing well ahead of Messi in the voting.They can't all have been wrong.

You almost seem to view scoring goals as some sort of negative attribute a player can possess.

Ye so good that he was spectacularly bad in the semi final against Barca. The best player in the world "who won the Champions League for United", yet was nothing but a hindrance in many of the games, in particular against Barca. Ronaldo was an outlet for United, just as he is for Madrid. He is never the fulcrum that drives the team to greater heights, like Messi or many of the other greats. If you actually go through the seasons that he has been on a Champions League winning team, there is an argument to be made that they would have won the tournament without him.

He is what he is, a prolific goal scorer. So were many other good strikers, none of whom are touted as arguably the best ever. I just don't understand this insistence by some who feel the need to place him on some pedestal as one of the best ever, when much of his game is way below par. We are seeing it now, he isn't scoring as frequently as he once was, and his lethargic general play performances are really beginning to stand out and be questioned. Honest question, if he's not scoring goals, what else does he bring to the table?

Turtwig

Just out of curiosity would those criticising Ronaldo for his goal machine "only" attributes, criticise a goalkeeper ballon d'or candidate for not scoring goals or assisting goals?

Every player on the field has their own role. Some responsibilities involve more interplay than others. Messi played as false nine and now in Barca he's playing more regularly as a midfielder. Ronaldo has fulfilled neither those roles. So criticising him for not performing them is utterly utterly bizarre. Cannavaro and Sammer didn't score that many goals or contribute a whole lot to a teams attack. By the logic of some here the fact they didn't play an all around game they shouldn't be considered in the same light of someone who did.

Ronaldo imo deserved every ballon d'or he won. There was maybe one or two years where you could have flip flopped the winners.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Ye so good that he was spectacularly bad in the semi final against Barca. The best player in the world "who won the Champions League for United", yet was nothing but a hindrance in many of the games, in particular against Barca. Ronaldo was an outlet for United, just as he is for Madrid. He is never the fulcrum that drives the team to greater heights, like Messi or many of the other greats. If you actually go through the seasons that he has been on a Champions League winning team, there is an argument to be made that they would have won the tournament without him.

He is what he is, a prolific goal scorer. So were many other good strikers, none of whom are touted as arguably the best ever. I just don't understand this insistence by some who feel the need to place him on some pedestal as one of the best ever, when much of his game is way below par. We are seeing it now, he isn't scoring as frequently as he once was, and his lethargic general play performances are really beginning to stand out and be questioned. Honest question, if he's not scoring goals, what else does he bring to the table?

There were more than 2 games played in the 2007-2008 season.

In the 3 seasons he won the champions league he was the competitions top goal scorer.I fancy if he hadn't been there his team may not have done as well.

Scoring goals is the most important thing in the game because for all of Barcelona's good play against Man Utd in 2008 they couldn't put the ball in the back of the net and lost because of that.

The Golden Miller

Turtwig wrote: »

Just out of curiosity would those criticising Ronaldo for his goal machine "only" attributes, criticise a goalkeeper ballon d'or candidate for not scoring goals or assisting goals?

Every player on the field has their own role. Some responsibilities involve more interplay than others. Messi played as false nine and now in Barca he's playing more regularly as a midfielder. Ronaldo has fulfilled neither those roles. So criticising him for not performing them is utterly utterly bizarre. Cannavaro and Sammer didn't score that many goals or contribute a whole lot to a teams attack. By the logic of some here the fact they didn't play an all around game they shouldn't be considered in the same light of someone who did.

Ronaldo imo deserved every ballon d'or he won. There was maybe one or two years where you could have flip flopped the winners.

So what you're saying IS that he is only a goalscorer? So why is he considered arguably the best ever and every other goalscorer isn't? This is the logic I've a problem with. I've no problem accepting he's one of the best goalscorers in the world, but one of the overall best players? Suarez at Liverpool led from the front in every single game and was involved in most passages of play. He wasn't just getting tap ins. World class strikers tend to offer more in open play than what Ronaldo does, hence he's lethargic when he doesn't score. Way below par in many facets of his game. People want to ignore this and hide behind his goal returns

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

There were more than 2 games played in the 2007-2008 season.

In the 3 seasons he won the champions league he was the competitions top goal scorer.I fancy if he hadn't been there his team may not have done as well.

Scoring goals is the most important thing in the game because for all of Barcelona's good play against Man Utd in 2008 they couldn't put the ball in the back of the net and lost because of that.

So he's top scorer so de facto best player?

I asked, going forward, if Ronaldo won't be contributing half as many goals, what else does he bring to the team?

Brendan Flowers

The Golden Miller wrote: »

So he's top scorer so de facto best player?

I asked, going forward, if Ronaldo won't be contributing half as many goals, what else does he bring to the team?

Still more than 20 goals a season?

The Golden Miller

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Still more than 20 goals a season?

Well do you think the fans and manager will be happy if he's returning 2-3 goals in 7-0 routes they'd win anyway, and in-between, not score for periods of 4-5 games like how it currently stands? But hey, lets all ignore this and just focus on the "stats". So what else is he bringing to the table in the games he is now not regularly scoring in?

TheNap

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I like how people say well he's just a goalscorer as if it's some kind of negative, Ronaldo can score the same and more than Messi without the need for the mazy runs. He has simplified football, possibly the greatest of all time, 4 Balon dOrs to 5 is fair given Messi had the greatest squad of all time around him thus his ability would have been more exaggerated.

I'm sure Real Madrid have spent almost a billion on players since Ronaldo came in . He had the best players feeding him opportunities for the last 6 years . His goal to shots ratio is horrific . I think he is the one who's ability has been exaggerated by the great teams he's played in.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

So he's top scorer so de facto best player?

I asked, going forward, if Ronaldo won't be contributing half as many goals, what else does he bring to the team?

Quite a number of assists as well.

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Quite a number of assists as well.

So he'll be a passenger basically? Getting the odd goals in hammerings and assists by the very nature of hanging around the box so much and giving two yard passes. What a guy. I've never seen football taken to such heights

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

So he'll be a passenger basically? Getting the odd goals in hammerings and assists by the very nature of hanging around the box so much and giving two yard passes. What a guy. I've never seen football taken to such heights

OK.

No point arguing with you any further.

Sure you even tried to dismiss Pele in other threads as just a goal scorer despite that clearly being complete bull.

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

OK.

No point arguing with you any further.

Sure you even tried to dismiss Pele in other threads as just a goal scorer despite that clearly being complete bull.

Pele is echelons ahead of Ronaldo. I just don't think he is as good as Maradona or Cruyff, or the best striker ever. But in saying that, he was an exceptional player, Ronaldo isn't. What will Ronaldo bring to the table if he is going to be going through 4-5 game patches without scoring?

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Pele is echelons ahead of Ronaldo. I just don't think he is as good as Maradona or Cruyff, or the best striker ever. But in saying that, he was an exceptional player, Ronaldo isn't. What will Ronaldo bring to the table if he is going to be going through 4-5 game patches without scoring?

OK.

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

OK.

Again, simple question: What will Ronaldo bring to the table if he is going to be going through 4-5 game patches without scoring?

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Again, simple question: What will Ronaldo bring to the table if he is going to be going through 4-5 game patches without scoring?

Don't think he has went through many 4 or 5 game patches without scoring though.

Your argument is stupid in all fairness.

What would Xavi bring if he wasn't so good at retaining possession,what would Manuel Nueur bring if he wasn't so good at keeping the ball out of the goal, etc etc.

You take away a players main attribute and none of them would be top class.

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Don't think he has went through many 4 or 5 game patches without scoring though.

Your argument is stupid in all fairness.

What would Xavi bring if he wasn't so good at retaining possession,what would Manuel Nueur bring if he wasn't so good at keeping the ball out of the goal, etc etc.

You take away a players main attribute and none of them would be top class.

Xavi contributes to the team. He isn't anonymous for 90 minutes. Considering Ronaldo is "arguably the best player ever", this super athlete, what do you think we can expect from him going forward if his goal scoring is to dry up? It seems you'll do everything and anything except answer the question directly. What does he bring to the table? We know how Xavi contributes, but Ronaldo not so much if his main "attribute" (tap ins) are on the wane

TheNap

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Don't think he has went through many 4 or 5 game patches without scoring though.

Your argument is stupid in all fairness.

What would Xavi bring if he wasn't so good at retaining possession,what would Manuel Nueur bring if he wasn't so good at keeping the ball out of the goal, etc etc.

You take away a players main attribute and none of them would be top class.

He scores so much because he is provided with a heap load of chances . His goal/shots ratio is horrific

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Xavi contributes to the team. He isn't anonymous for 90 minutes. Considering Ronaldo is "arguably the best player ever", this super athlete, what do you think we can expect from him going forward if his goal scoring is to dry up? It seems you'll do everything and anything except answer the question directly. What does he bring to the table? We know how Xavi contributes, but Ronaldo not so much if his main "attribute" (tap ins) are on the wane

He contributes by doing the thing he is good at, retaining possession.

Ronaldo contributes by doing what he is good at, scoring goals

You take away Xavi's main attribute he wouldn't have been so good.

Believe it or not scoring goals is a very important part of the game.

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He contributes by doing the thing he is good at, retaining possession.

Ronaldo contributes by doing what he is good at, scoring goals

You take away Xavi's main attribute he wouldn't have been so good.

Believe it or not scoring goals is a very important part of the game.

And I'm asking you, if Ronaldo continues to struggle in finding the yet, what else does he bring? Nothing? So you think he'll be an anonymous passenger once the goals wane?

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

And I'm asking you, if Ronaldo continues to struggle in finding the yet, what else does he bring? Nothing? So you think he'll be an anonymous passenger once the goals wane?

He'd do pretty well,He's a good creator of chances for others when he wants to be.

What else do most other players bring once they lose their main attribute.

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He'd do pretty well,He's a good creator of chances for others when he wants to be.

What else do most other players bring once they lose their main attribute.

Most players don't lose their main attributes as they are naturally technically skilled so will always be able to contribute in open play. A good creator? Is he? I don't remember him ever playmaking. Can't beat his man either so won't be creating from crosses etc. As I said, nothing wrong with being just a goal scorer. Many players before him were just goalscorers. Difference is most aren't lauded as arguably "the best ever". His goal-scoring will decrease from here on in. He's a passenger in open play as it is, but he'll become an passenger without even being an outlet. The current criticism that he's receiving isn't going to go away soon, and he'll no longer have the goal-scoring to paper of the cracks of his many deficiencies in open play

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Most players don't lose their main attributes as they are naturally technically skilled so will always be able to contribute in open play. A good creator? Is he? I don't remember him ever playmaking. Can't beat his man either so won't be creating from crosses etc. As I said, nothing wrong with being just a goal scorer. Many players before him were just goalscorers. Difference is most aren't lauded as arguably "the best ever". His goal-scoring will decrease from here on in. He's a passenger in open play as it is, but he'll become an passenger without even being an outlet. The current criticism that he's receiving isn't going to go away soon, and he'll no longer have the goal-scoring to paper of the cracks of his many deficiencies in open play

So now you are implying he's not technically skilled.

Come on now.

sky88

honestly there is some people in denial about ronaldos talent

Andersonisgod

sky88 wrote: »

honestly there is some people in denial about ronaldos talent

Equally there's some people in denial about his glaring deficiencies.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Equally there's some people in denial about his glaring deficiencies.

He hasn't exactly got glaring deficiencies as a forward which is what he is.

Its' really childish that some people can't appreciate both Ronaldo and Messi and instead turn it into a childish tit for tat about each players apparent weaknesses.

Andersonisgod

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He hasn't exactly got glaring deficiencies as a forward which is what he is.

Its' really childish that some people can't appreciate both Ronaldo and Messi and instead turn it into a childish tit for tat about each players apparent weaknesses.

Outside of this season (and if we are being honest about it the second half of last season too) Ronaldo doesn't have any weaknesses as a goal scorer. If we are talking about Ronaldo as a complete player then his weaknesses have been pretty crystal clear his entire career, especially because of people's propensity to compare him with Messi (literally the most complete footballer in the history of football!). He's a world class inside forward, an ok 9 (by world class standards) and WAS a good winger (right or left). Messi is a 9, a false 9, a 10, a 7, an 8 and a 6 and he is legitimately world class in all of those roles often playing a number of them in a single game. His heat maps, his passes executed and received maps will back that up, along with his chances created stats (a far better indicator than assists by the way) his through ball stats, his assist stats and, of course, his goalscoring stats. Thing is though, you don't really even need those stats to back up that argument, all you have to do is watch Messi play, just as he did last Saturday against Sevilla, to see exactly why there is no more complete, or brilliant, player than Messi.