La Liga Superthread 2016/17

GavRedKing

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Love when Barcelona are on song like they are tonight. There's nothing better in football than this.

They seriously needed it after the Betis game. If hey can come away with a clean sheet tonight, theyve a foot in the final

Burial.

Outrageous run by Suarez and Messi with a beauty. Would seem they've a little fire in them after the botch at the weekend.

Andersonisgod

GavRedKing wrote: »

They seriously needed it after the Betis game. If hey can come away with a clean sheet tonight, theyve a foot in the final

That's true itv was a below par performance and maybe the league is a bit too far out of reach but the final of the cup could be close now and there's the Champions League.

GavRedKing

Andersonisgod wrote: »

That's true itv was a below par performance and maybe the league is a bit too far out of reach but the final of the cup could be close now and there's the Champions League.

Reals form, even though they went 40 games unbeatem, was seriously patchy in that period, theyre not adverse to a wobble themselves and they won and draw games they had no business getting results from.

League is still on but theyed need Real to pi*s it away with the game in hand really.

Neymars form is a worry though, there was a time when it looked like he'd be next up for the Balon d'or when Messi and Ronaldo packed in but hes gone very hot and cold this year.

Andersonisgod

GavRedKing wrote: »

Reals form, even though they went 40 games unbeatem, was seriously patchy in that period, theyre not adverse to a wobble themselves and they won and draw games they had no business getting results from.

League is still on but theyed need Real to pi*s it away with the game in hand really.

Neymars form is a worry though, there was a time when it looked like he'd be next up for the Balon d'or when Messi and Ronaldo packed in but hes gone very hot and cold this year.

His goal return really has not matched his contribution the last few weeks particularly. Tonight again he's tormented Atletico's right side, he's not gotten on the scoresheet but his play merits credit. Needless to say I believe 100% in him haha

I'd agree with that, Real Madrid weren't overly convincing in some games on that run, and that, combined with Madrid injuries, gives Barcelona a small bit of hope but really the Copa and the Champions League are the most likely pursuits for trophies this season.

Andersonisgod

Barça playing well? Opposition can't stop them? Step up referee. Luis Suarez clearly held back on the corner of the box stopping him from defending the freekick. That's how it's done in Spain.

Andersonisgod

Juanfran kicks Neymar hard in the back of the leg and no card....

Vincent Vega

Not bad at free kicks this lad.
Got to say though, i prefer Ronaldo because he does that stance so you know he's gonna do his special move.

Andersonisgod

Big win, 2 away goals and the Barca side showed incredible character tonight as that second half was an Atletico Madrid onslaught. They held on, the take a good lead to the Camp Nou thanks to a stirring first half performance highlighted by 2 great goals from Messi and Suarez. Cracking game.

dfx-

They have largely shown excellent strength away from home so far this season.

Sevilla threw everything at them second half, Atletico did tonight, Athletic were very tough, Valencia was a late late win.

Barring the usual places of Celta (decent second half) and Sociedad, they have stood firm holding onto leads or getting equalisers. Bets away is a very hard game, they hadn't lost at home in months.

They're struggling at home.

Andersonisgod

Just a humorous stat I came across on Twitter that I thought I'd tickle you with: Messi has completed more nutmegs this season than Ronaldo's combined completed dribbles and nutmegs. Won't lie, I enjoyed that.

inforfun

Yeah well.... they played City this season and Ronaldo didnt.

(i know, the nutneg show vs City wasnt his season)

chopperbyrne

How do you measure a completed dribble?

Moving a few feet and then passing the ball, or shooting would be a completed dribble.

The Talking Bread

chopperbyrne wrote: »

How do you measure a completed dribble?

Moving a few feet and then passing the ball, or shooting would be a completed dribble.

I would say it has to end with a shot ON TARGET or pass, incomplete would end with a loss of possession as a result of a tackle or simply running the ball out of play.

Andersonisgod

chopperbyrne wrote: »

How do you measure a completed dribble?

Moving a few feet and then passing the ball, or shooting would be a completed dribble.

Pretty sure that in this context it's about going past an opposition player successfully.

MisterAnarchy

Fair play to Ronnie

Real Madrid star Cristiano Ronaldo has been named the world's highest-earning athlete for the first time, becoming only the second individual from a team sport to lead the Forbes rankings since they began in 1990.

Ronaldo, who turns 32 on Sunday, climbed to the top of the list by earning $88 million in 2016, ahead of Barcelona's Lionel Messi in second place with $81m and NBA star LeBron James in third with $77m

Introducing the research, Kurt Badenhausen of Forbes said that Portugal captain Ronaldo had overtaken boxer Floyd Mayweather and golfer Tiger Woods to become the first footballer ever to be named the highest earner across all global sport.

"With Mayweather hanging up his gloves and Woods hampered by injuries, there is an opening at the top.

"This year, soccer icon Cristiano Ronaldo is the world's highest-paid athlete, with earnings of $88m over the past 12 months from salary, bonuses and endorsements. Ronaldo is only the second team athlete after Michael Jordan to rank as the top-paid since Forbes began tracking athlete earnings in 1990."

According to Forbes, Ronaldo's total income rose marginally in 2016, up to $88m from $80m the year before. However, the retirement of boxers Mayweather ($300m in 2015) and Manny Pacquiao ($160m in 2015) helped him to take over at the head of the list.

When compiling the list Forbes tallied earnings including salaries, prize money and bonuses paid out between June 1, 2015, and June 1, 2016. They do not deduct for taxes or agents' fees and do not include investment income.

This means the research is based on the contract Ronaldo had during most of 2016, which was worth more than $50m-a-year in salary and bonuses, and not the new deal he signed last November which runs until 2021.

http://www.espnfc.com/real-madrid/story/3052663/real-madrids-cristiano-ronaldo-named-highest-paid-sportsman-of-2016-by-forbes

sky88

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Just a humorous stat I came across on Twitter that I thought I'd tickle you with: Messi has completed more nutmegs this season than Ronaldo's combined completed dribbles and nutmegs. Won't lie, I enjoyed that.

and what does that really matter. a player might have the most dribbles and nutmegs then do nothing with it.

wilfred zaha ive seen done dribbles a lot generally ends up in nothing.

Andersonisgod

sky88 wrote: »

and what does that really matter. a player might have the most dribbles and nutmegs then do nothing with it.

wilfred zaha ive seen done dribbles a lot generally ends up in nothing.

Silly example when the player I'm referencing has 32 goals and 15 assists in 32 games this season....all that and he's nutmegged more opponents than Ronaldo has dribbled past and nutmegged opponents combined.....

Arghus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Silly example when the player I'm referencing has 32 goals and 15 assists in 32 games this season....all that and he's nutmegged more opponents than Ronaldo has dribbled past and nutmegged opponents combined.....

So what you're saying is that Messi's stats are meaningless unless used to bash Ronaldo...

Liam McPoyle

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Just a humorous stat I came across on Twitter that I thought I'd tickle you with: Messi has completed more nutmegs this season than Ronaldo's combined completed dribbles and nutmegs. Won't lie, I enjoyed that.

Nutmegs don't win Ballon D'or, mang.

Andersonisgod

Rod Munch wrote: »

Nutmegs don't win Ballon D'or, mang.

Apparently being the obvious best player in the world doesn't either....

Liam McPoyle

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Apparently being the obvious best player in the world doesn't either....

Ronaldo was the best player in the world the last 12 months.

He won the Ballon D'or and dragged his country to the Euro championship.

Messi threw his toys out of the cot and retired.

Then came back.

Not a great role model tbh.

Have a bit of a rage quit during the summer when things didnt go his way only to reappear again as if nothing happened.

Disappointing form IMO.

Andersonisgod

Rod Munch wrote: »

Ronaldo was the best player in the world the last 12 months.

He won the Ballon D'or and dragged his country to the Euro championship.

Messi threw his toys out of the cot and retired.

Then came back.

Not a great role model tbh.

Have a bit of a rage quit during the summer when things didnt go his way only to reappear again as if nothing happened.

Disappointing form IMO.

I wont clog up the La Liga thread by going into any great detail on this topic so I'll keep this short.

Everything you've just written is wrong.

Why was he the best player? His one job for Real Madrid is to score goals. Messi has so much more responsibility in the Barca team than just goals (this is reflected in pretty much every statistic you'll see, from heat maps to touches, to dribbles, to chance creation ect.) and yet he still scored more goals than Ronaldo last season (despite playing significantly further from goal than the Portuguese).

He dragged them to the Euros? They beat Wales(!) in the semi final and he literally played less than 15 minutes in the final. Pepe won the same trophies that Ronaldo did last season and was more influential for both club and country in those trophy wins.

I won't start on how wrong you've gotten the Messi/Argentina situation. I suggest you read (or listen) to those who understand the context of both Messi's career with Argentina and Argentinian football as a whole (perhaps begin with Jonathan Wilson's excellent "Angels with Dirty Faces" in order to gain a context of Argentine football and then journalists, pundits, those close to the situation who will be able to paint you a clear picture as to what exactly the issue was.) Without doing any of that you're just walking about in the dark.

Anyway....I've said my bit, I'll go back to Spanish football now.

inforfun

Pepe and Renato Sanches, hell... even Nani were more important for Portugal's EURO win than Ronaldo.
But yeah.... Pepe as a ballon d'or winner isnt going to happen.

Andersonisgod

inforfun wrote: »

Pepe and Renato Sanches, hell... even Nani were more important for Portugal's EURO win than Ronaldo.
But yeah.... Pepe as a ballon d'or winner isnt going to happen.

Last year's Balon D'or basically became "best cheerleader"

I can honestly say it was the global equivalent of the PFA randomly naming Giggs player of the year when he was quite clearly past his best.

Liam McPoyle

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I wont clog up the La Liga thread by going into any great detail on this topic so I'll keep this short.

Everything you've just written is wrong.

Why was he the best player? His one job for Real Madrid is to score goals. Messi has so much more responsibility in the Barca team than just goals (this is reflected in pretty much every statistic you'll see, from heat maps to touches, to dribbles, to chance creation ect.) and yet he still scored more goals than Ronaldo last season (despite playing significantly further from goal than the Portuguese).

He dragged them to the Euros? They beat Wales(!) in the semi final and he literally played less than 15 minutes in the final. Pepe won the same trophies that Ronaldo did last season and was more influential for both club and country in those trophy wins.

I won't start on how wrong you've gotten the Messi/Argentina situation. I suggest you read (or listen) to those who understand the context of both Messi's career with Argentina and Argentinian football as a whole (perhaps begin with Jonathan Wilson's excellent "Angels with Dirty Faces" in order to gain a context of Argentine football and then journalists, pundits, those close to the situation who will be able to paint you a clear picture as to what exactly the issue was.) Without doing any of that you're just walking about in the dark.

Anyway....I've said my bit, I'll go back to Spanish football now.

Ronaldo only had to score goals.

Messi had other people to help score goals.

Goals win games.

Goals = win games

Ronaldo = goals

Messi + help = goals

Therefore Ronaldo best player last year.

Take two people in an office doing the same job, accountants for example.

Both do it very, very well.

Once a week both also take turns making tay for the rest of the team.

Employee 1 carries the tray with the taypot, cups and biscuits on it.

Employee 2 carries the tray with the taypot and the cups on it but has to get the young south American interns to carry the biscuits.

Employee 1 is obviously overall the better employee.

That's why he got the €50 one for all voucher at the annual employee awards.

Andersonisgod

Rod Munch wrote: »

Ronaldo only had to score goals.

Messi had other people to help score goals.

Goals win games.

Goals = win games

Ronaldo = goals

Messi + help = goals

Therefore Ronaldo best player last year.

Take two people in an office doing the same job, accountants for example.

Both do it very, very well.

Once a week both also take turns making tay for the rest of the team.

Employee 1 carries the tray with the taypot, cups and biscuits on it.

Employee 2 carries the tray with the taypot and the cups on it but has to get the young south American interns to carry the biscuits.

Employee 1 is obviously overall the better employee.

That's why he got the €50 one for all voucher at the annual employee awards.

Bale+Benzema+James Rodriguez+Isco+Kroos+Modric+Lucas Vasquez all elimimated from existence in one fell swoop....

Albert_Camus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Bale+Benzema+James Rodriguez+Isco+Kroos+Modric+Lucas Vasquez all elimimated from existence in one fell swoop....

You hitting the barca game tomorrow? Looking forward to it myself

Andersonisgod

Albert_Camus wrote: »

You hitting the barca game tomorrow? Looking forward to it myself

I've managed to get over this season, hoping to go before the end of the season again. Though I will watch the match, like I do practically every Barça match, and I'll watch many more matches over the weekend too. Can't wait!

Liam McPoyle

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Bale+Benzema+James Rodriguez+Isco+Kroos+Modric+Lucas Vasquez all elimimated from existence in one fell swoop....

Benzema & Bale league 44 goals last season.

Suarez and Neymar 64 league goals last season.

Messi's biscuit carriers scored approx 30% more goals than Ronaldos last season.

Ronaldo carried Madrid.

Messi helped carry Barca.

Ronaldo won the Ballon D'or.

Well deserved tbh.

Andersonisgod

Rod Munch wrote: »

Benzema & Bale league 44 goals last season.

Suarez and Neymar 64 league goals last season.

Messi's biscuit carriers scored approx 30% more goals than Ronaldos last season.

Ronaldo carried Madrid.

Messi helped carry Barca.

Ronaldo won the Ballon D'or.

Well deserved tbh.

And yet Madrid didn't win a single knockout game in the Champions League and surely the fact that Messi shares around the goals more makes it even more impressive that he outscored Ronaldo!

Anyway no point arguing this extensively. All you have to do is watch the 2 players every week and you'll get your answer. If there ever was a rivalry or a point in time where these 2 players were on a similar level that's certainly ended this season, and I think most who watched the 2 could see pretty obviously that it wasn't close last season either. Ronaldo, as a candidate to be the true best player in the world, has been done for at least 2 seasons.

Albert_Camus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I've managed to get over this season, hoping to go before the end of the season again. Though I will watch the match, like I do practically every Barça match, and I'll watch many more matches over the weekend too. Can't wait!

Ah, newish here, just reading and thought you were based over here.

Yeah thinking it will be good, hitting a bit of a stride now they are.

And yeah some other good matches over the weekend too.

Albert_Camus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Anyway no point arguing this extensively. All you have to do is watch the 2 players every week and you'll get your answer.

This is how I feel too. For me it's so blatantly obvious, but then you have to take a step back and think are we just bias against Ronaldo. You know?

But yeah for me, Messi another level to everyone.

Corholio

It's not really about who's best though, imo Messi is the better player by a bit, it's the constant mind numbing dribbles or nutmegs stats digs week in, week out. Usually to pass the time when Barca aren't playing. All this under the facade that it's a 'discussion'.

Andersonisgod

Albert_Camus wrote: »

This is how I feel too. For me it's so blatantly obvious, but then you have to take a step back and think are we just bias against Ronaldo. You know?

But yeah for me, Messi another level to everyone.

I mean to an extent everyone has biases but even with those factored in it's become almost impossible for even the most ardent Ronaldo supporter to defend him. His performance against Real Sociedad recently was excellent, his best game of the season thus far, but it's one of the very few times this season where he has looked like a player who should be talked about as being a Balon D'or contender. It was the exception rather than the rule this season.

Messi is dragging this Barcelona team forward, at times it's kicking and screaming, but every week he is the outstanding player, he's having one of his greatest seasons and he's doing it while simultaneously performing the roles of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. I've never seen a more complete player than Messi this season, the man has taken what it means to be the best in every way and he's raised that to another plateau.

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

It's not really about who's best though, imo Messi is the better player by a bit, it's the constant mind numbing dribbles or nutmegs stats digs week in, week out. Usually to pass the time when Barca aren't playing. All this under the facade that it's a 'discussion'.

It's a legitimate stat. Didn't we all have to sit and listen (read) for years as Ronaldo's fan club turned the Balon D'or into a battle of goalscoring statistics? And now, when they don't like what the numbers say, they want to shift the goalposts? You can play on any goals, on any pitch that you like, there;s no denying what is blatantly obvious.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It's a legitimate stat. Didn't we all have to sit and listen (read) for years as Ronaldo's fan club turned the Balon D'or into a battle of goalscoring statistics? And now, when they don't like what the numbers say, they want to shift the goalposts? You can play on any goals, on any pitch that you like, there;s no denying what is blatantly obvious.

It's a legitimate stat that's used as a dig though, using central defenders dribble stats against Ronaldo's etc etc. While it's obvious Messi is the better player it's also matched by the pettiness and childishness of your mentions of Ronaldo.

I miss the older La Liga thread from a few years ago that didn't include goading posts and even Real-Barca could be discussed without pointless, agenda driven stats/posts.

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

It's a legitimate stat that's used as a dig though, using central defenders dribble stats against Ronaldo's etc etc. While it's obvious Messi is the better player it's also matched by the pettiness and childishness of your mentions of Ronaldo.

I miss the older La Liga thread from a few years ago that didn't include goading posts and even Real-Barca could be discussed without pointless, agenda driven stats/posts.

Refrain from using stats as part of an ongoing debate in Spain? My pleasure.

The Talking Bread

This thread! There is nothing worse than fanboyism you expect to hear in 6th class!

dfx-

Rod Munch wrote: »

Messi threw his toys out of the cot and retired.

Then came back.

Not a great role model tbh.

Have a bit of a rage quit during the summer when things didnt go his way only to reappear again as if nothing happened.

Disappointing form IMO.

I'm going to guess this is exaggerated for effect because that is about as wrong a reading of it as you can get.

Albert_Camus

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Refrain from using stats as part of an ongoing debate in Spain? My pleasure.

I think maybe the suggestion is to refrain from the discussion altogether.

We like Messi, other people like Ronaldo. Now let's get on with the football.

inforfun

Would be great for this thread and (Spanish) football in general if Sevilla can do them both this year and win the league.
Give them more chance to win the CL though.

dfx-

delighted for Paco Alcacer, neat finish. Exactly the type of goal a Suarez replacement needs to be getting.

Vincent Vega

Vincent Vega wrote: »

Not bad at free kicks this lad.

https://twitter.com/Messinnovative2/status/829081661832884229

2nd time in the space of a week :eek:
3-2 on aggregate just now.
Atletico need to score to take it to extra time.

LuckyGent88

Well that was another eventful game between Barcelona and Atletico.

2 goals, 3 reds and a missed penalty!!!

Suarez misses the final I think

HalloweenJack

More poor officiating last night. Atleti having a good goal ruled out for offside.

Andersonisgod

HalloweenJack wrote: »

More poor officiating last night. Atleti having a good goal ruled out for offside.

Are you kidding me? Suarez gets sent off for the 2 weakest yellow cards you're ever likely to see and Atletico use Barcelona players as punchbags for 90 minutes with no protection from the referee and that's your takeaway? What a joke.

HalloweenJack

The whole match is indicative of the poor standard of officiating across the league. Seems like almost every match there's another incident.

Andersonisgod

By the way, while the officiating was typically atrocious, I'd like to note just how good Samuel Umtiti was last night and how good he has been this seaon. Barcelona isn't an easy club for outsiders to assimilate to, it's even more difficult to adjust to the Barcelona centre back position. But this guy, who is still so young, has aced it. He's been fantastic in his first seaaon at Camp Nou, certainly the Barcelona defender of the future.

Brendan Flowers

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Are you kidding me? Suarez gets sent off for the 2 weakest yellow cards you're ever likely to see and Atletico use Barcelona players as punchbags for 90 minutes with no protection from the referee and that's your takeaway? What a joke.

And what's your opinion on Griezmann's goal that was ruled out for being offside?