Cross Country Training Thread

KielyUnusual

RayCun wrote: »

It was a good race, the three of them in a bunch to the last km and Clohissey had the legs for the finish.
You first in for Crusaders? (I couldn't remember what you looked like :pac:)

Nah, Frazier was first in and I was second. He took me with about 4k to go and I was out on my feet at that stage.

Great win for the Cru in the women's race. Knew Caroline was in with a great shout of winning as she had been putting in some amazing sessions on the Munich Mile in the Phoenix Park and she really took it in convincing fashion. Will be interesting to see how she fares over the 1500 next year.

RayCun

she was really strong, big gap back on second

Notwork Error

Good stuff KU. They're the kind of guys you want to be mixing it up with. Toughing it out will stand to you, dropping down always feels more manageable after an effort like that.

KielyUnusual

Notwork Error wrote: »

Good stuff KU. They're the kind of guys you want to be mixing it up with. Toughing it out will stand to you, dropping down always feels more manageable after an effort like that.

I wouldn't say mixing it up but we were in the same race anyway

Plus, I didn't get lapped

Looking forward to the saner 6k distance for the Novice.

pconn062

Well done KU, still a very good run for someone who is (if you don't mind me saying!) a 1500m runner!

10k XC is a beast of a race. My own race was very tough, a tricky course (in DkIT where the intercounties were earlier this year), some nasty hills and very mucky underfoot at times. I didn't so much fade at the end but rather the guys around me had more strength and pushed on. All I'm fit for now is bed!

Myles Splitz

Have to echo KU's comments regarding the race today. Hats off the Brothers Pearse a great course, well thought out, technical, well organised and spectator friendly.

Had a strong run myself in or around where I would have hoped. Made a rookie mistake of thinking I had warded off a kick but got caught napping right on the line and lost a position but bar that I ran well.

Sacksian

Interesting to see that the first four teams were all missing key scorers. Those four teams will probably contest the Inter Counties title too if they can get everyone out. Should be a great competition.

I presume Leevale will have a serious team as well? Any others?

KielyUnusual

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Have to echo KU's comments regarding the race today. Hats off the Brothers Pearse a great course, well thought out, technical, well organised and spectator friendly.

Had a strong run myself in or around where I would have hoped. Made a rookie mistake of thinking I had warded off a kick but got caught napping right on the line and lost a position but bar that I ran well.

Saw that. Always run through the line

Yea great course and I think that opinion was pretty universal. Challenging but not ridiculous. Great underfoot conditions too.

Myles Splitz

No messing about with results either

http://www.dublinathletics.com/attachments/article/399/Dublin%20Senior%20and%20Junior%20Cross%20Country%20Championships%202015.pdf

Myles Splitz

In a moment of madness after the 10k I decided one wasn't enough for the XC season so requested and had approved off from work the 22nd of November for the Interclubs.

Anyone else making the trip to Santry?

KielyUnusual

Myles Splitz wrote: »

In a moment of madness after the 10k I decided one wasn't enough for the XC season so requested and had approved off from work the 22nd of November for the Interclubs.

Anyone else making the trip to Santry?

You are mad! :eek:

I might have ran it but its my niece's christening down in Tipp on the same day. Thank you very much to my sister for that one:P. Great to have a legitimate excuse.

happygoose

That race on the 22nd will be pure carnage. Dublin Senior x about 2.5 in depth. Cannot wait to see it.

Notwork Error

Myles Splitz wrote: »

In a moment of madness after the 10k I decided one wasn't enough for the XC season so requested and had approved off from work the 22nd of November for the Interclubs.

Anyone else making the trip to Santry?

I'm might give it a shot. I'd be miles out the back but it's the best XC race in the country and would be a great experience I'd say just to see where you really stand in running terms.

pconn062

Myles Splitz wrote: »

In a moment of madness after the 10k I decided one wasn't enough for the XC season so requested and had approved off from work the 22nd of November for the Interclubs.

Anyone else making the trip to Santry?

I hope to run (well, hoped may be a better way), but expect to be waaaay out of my depth. I have a sore foot since Sunday and I have a dreaded suspicion it's the beginning of a stress fracture/reaction.

Myles Splitz

happygoose wrote: »

That race on the 22nd will be pure carnage. Dublin Senior x about 2.5 in depth. Cannot wait to see it.

Yeah I did the 12k about 2-3 years back, a different ball game for sure but those are the races that really bring you on sure and show you where you are and where you need to get to training and racing wise.

Notwork Error wrote: »

I'm might give it a shot. I'd be miles out the back but it's the best XC race in the country and would be a great experience I'd say just to see where you really stand in running terms.

My thinking exactly, no notions of winning the thing or anything but could be a good boost to fitness levels with an effort like that and an extra body fir support to the changes made by the AAI so.

pconn062 wrote: »

I hope to run (well, hoped may be a better way), but expect to be waaaay out of my depth. I have a sore foot since Sunday and I have a dreaded suspicion it's the beginning of a stress fracture/reaction.

Sorry to hear man hopefully its nothing more than PF or something less severe along those lines. Approach treatment and recovery as focused as you would training and will be back in no time.

Sacksian

Myles Splitz wrote: »

My thinking exactly, no notions of winning the thing or anything but could be a good boost to fitness levels with an effort like that and an extra body for support to the changes made by the AAI so.

+1 - it'd be great to see much larger numbers in it in future years

I'll be there spectating - it's going to be a great race - but I should be able to do it next year.

youngrun

22nd November is the Interclubs this year. will clubs get behind it and not just the Dublin clubs?? Across all grades there are 9 sets of team medals to be won . AAI should be pushing the hell out of this with a week to go for entries. And nothing on website ? Does anyone work in the PR department . Our club has received no email no PR flyer no link to entry nothing. I know well where to find the infor but please put it out there to all clubs.
The day in Santry is a great one for athletics. Not in the best shape to run it but I may yet run it , any reasonably fit club runner should aim for this every year.

Notwork Error

youngrun wrote: »

22nd November is the Interclubs this year. will clubs get behind it and not just the Dublin clubs??

This is probably a perennial discussion here but it's hard to see to that happening. Numbers were pretty low in Munster XC already this year compared to usual and the south has not been well represented at interclubs or intercounties in the past so it looks unlikely to change this year. Clubs down here seem to be even struggling to pull together teams for county and provincial champs on their doorsteps so I don't think we will see many willing to travel and get their asses whooped in Dublin.

It's not the right atitude but I think something like interclubs to flourish and get back where it was in terms of depth and numbers, there needs to be a real push by the club's to try and get people out running their own County champs first which isn't easy. It's an ego blow for a lot of runners when they get to that level and there's no PB opportunity to soften the blow of finishing down the field. Other clubs will have runners who want to do it but think what's the point in travelling if they can't fill a team.

I think that fear and atitude has to be shaken off at County and Provencial level before interclubs will really start to flourish again. Club membership may be at an all-time high but racers are far and few between these days.

Dubgal72

^^^ Interesting, just finished reading Bertie Messitt's biography. When asked to compare the running environments of the 50s and 60s with today (book was published in 2000), one of his observations was that in his era "there was fierce rivalry between clubs. Nowadays clubs are hardly mentioned - the focus is entirely on individual success."

The rivalry between his club, Donore, and Clonliffe back in the day certainly was intense!

Sacksian

Dubgal72 wrote: »

^^^ Interesting, just finished reading Bertie Messitt's biography. When asked to compare the running environments of the 50s and 60s with today (book was published in 2000), one of his observations was that in his era "there was fierce rivalry between clubs. Nowadays clubs are hardly mentioned - the focus is entirely on individual success."

The rivalry between his club, Donore, and Clonliffe back in the day certainly was intense!

I think that's an astute observation by Bertie and very true, generally, of club athletics. The club is featured less in coverage of the sport and I doubt many kids outside athletics would have a clue about individual clubs or club honours. Having said that, Donore and Clonliffe, and probably Raheny too, would still be fairly obsessed with club titles, particularly in xc: men and women, junior, senior and master. At almost every level (apart from Leinster, apparently).

Personally, XC has been the part of joining a club I've enjoyed the most, despite being relatively **** at it. It's the one discipline where you get 400m and 50k runners in the same race, and I tend not to get injured during xc season, which is a bonus.

The main obstacle to greater uptake of xc I've seen is the fact that a lot of club (and non-club) athletes are training individually, or from books, compared to past generations - which is probably a function of contemporary culture - and so they're not necessarily getting involved in, or organising training around, the club calendar.

Personally, I think the emphasis on individual coaching is to the detriment of the sport, as well as the individual athlete. Very few athletes who go to club sessions week-in and week-out fail to improve. The old-school club coaches, the type who live and breathe xc, prepare their athletes to run almost every distance on xc, road and track. The guys in the 60s and 70s ran all distances (and some were/are still doing it in their 60s and 70s!).

One concern is that recent trends in private races, training groups, etc are taking potential athletes, and coaches, away from the club system, which needs as much fresh blood at all levels to keep expanding. The best and most iconic races in Ireland have club members behind them. I think I'm rambling at this point...

Anyway, high hopes for the short course championships and the future of the Inter Clubs - a decent showing at European XC would help too. There'll be over 200+ in the men's race at national masters, so it's not all doom and gloom!

HelenAnne

I think a lot of runners who come into the sport as adults after a non-sporty childhood and adolescence (like me!) might be surprised by how good it feels to be on a club team -- everyone should give it a go and XC is a great opportunity to.
I started off running just for myself, and when I joined a club I liked the camaraderie etc, but it wasn't until I ended up 3rd scorer on a few road race teams (having not known beforehand that there were teams involved) that I began to feel the pressure and the pride of being on a team. I remember a couple of years ago in the New Year's Day race in the Phoenix Park, Pat Hooper shouting at me after the first lap 'The team are in first place and you're third scorer!' as I ran along neck and neck with a Donore woman - I really felt the pressure then! And I felt really surprised (and proud, i suppose) to be called up for a masters team for the Road Relays this year.
Despite how nervous / pressured being on a team makes me feel, I really love being asked to run for the club. I think there is a sense in Raheny that you should be available and run if asked / needed, and I think we run harder when you feel it might count towards a team score -- i know I ran myself into the ground at the Dublin Novice. I tried hard the week after at the Teachers' XC, but it wasn't the same ... (having said all that i wasn't free for the Seniors last weekend and was kind of relieved as that is a scary race )
I am rambling a bit and getting off the topic, I suppose I'm just backing Sacksian up in saying that if the club team mentality is waning, I think it's a pity, because it's great for the individual runner as well as for the club.
And Sacksian, I think we know each other In Real Life .

Sacksian

HelenAnne wrote: »

And Sacksian, I think we know each other In Real Life .

I'm sure we do! What have you left in your xc racing calendar? Are you doing the national novice?

HelenAnne

Sacksian wrote: »

I'm sure we do! What have you left in your xc racing calendar? Are you doing the national novice?

I don't think I'm doing the national novice. do you have to qualify? we didn't do well at the Dublin Novice so not sure if we're sending a team?

I was thinking of doing the Open xc next weekend, but now I think I might not as we have a hilly ten-mile race the next weekend and I don't want to be wrecked for it.

I'll do any BHAA races I'm in Dublin for and the Masters' in January. What about you?

ETA: Just noticed national Novice is the day after Jingle Bells, which I really want to do, so I HOPE I'm not doing National Novice!

Sacksian

HelenAnne wrote: »

I don't think I'm doing the national novice. do you have to qualify? we didn't do well at the Dublin Novice so not sure if we're sending a team?

I was thinking of doing the Open xc next weekend, but now I think I might not as we have a hilly ten-mile race the next weekend and I don't want to be wrecked for it.

I'll do any BHAA races I'm in Dublin for and the Masters' in January. What about you?

ETA: Just noticed national Novice is the day after Jingle Bells, which I really want to do, so I HOPE I'm not doing National Novice!

You don't have to qualify for the National Novice. However, you didn't have a women's team in it last year, but you did in 2013 (and won!). It's up to the club, I suppose, and demand from the athletes. We had just one individual female runner in 2013, and no women's team.

If you enjoyed Dublin novice, I'd definitely recommend doing it but Jingle Bells is a pretty great race too! Maybe do National Masters in January as a compromise? Good warm-up for the Raheny 5 the week after!

I'll hopefully make it to National Novice in one piece and then do Dublin masters and the short course championships in January.

Timmaay

I'll echo the whole sentiment towards club teams, it's something that I push hard for in my local club always (fell flat on its face for leinster novice tho ha), aside from the top 3 or top 12 for u16s, there is almost zero individual motivation at xc ha, times/pbs are basically irrelevant.

I remember back to one of my 1st ever club races, local cross country, unbeknown to me it was the 1st time ever we'd fielded a men's team in many years, One of my club mates running that day I would have had a lot of respect for, he'd won loads of individual stuff as a juvenile etc. Anyways he won the race, and the team got medals also, afterwards when he was handed 2 medals he was surprised, and said that this is the 1st team medal he had got over his whole running career with the club. Was a good feeling to know that I was part of that!

Anyways leinster inter Sunday, and yas have all got me motivated to drag out a team for inter clubs if I can ha!

pconn062

Looks like a venue has been picked for the short course 4k XC, ALSAA. Let's hope it's dry!

Timmaay

Talk about muck, rain and flooding today ha. Enjoyed it and had a solid race, which is alot more than can be said about most XC races ha, only downside is I left too much on the track, nobody should be able to sprint finish from 150m out at XC haha.

Anyways, anyone able to tell me when entries for interclubs close? I cannot for the life of me find it on the AAI website.

pconn062

Timmaay wrote: »

Talk about muck, rain and flooding today ha. Enjoyed it and had a solid race, which is alot more than can be said about most XC races ha, only downside is I left too much on the track, nobody should be able to sprint finish from 150m out at XC haha.

Anyways, anyone able to tell me when entries for interclubs close? I cannot for the life of me find it on the AAI website.

Closes 13/11

KielyUnusual

Just a general question for the cross country crew..

If you have a goal race in the season, for argument's sake, lets say the National Novice in 4 weeks time , how would you prepare so that you are in optimal shape come race day?

I'm looking at keeping some reasonably high mileage for 5-6 weeks (50-60 miles for me), while doing the track session and a hill session each week. Then for the last 2-3 weeks, I'll back off the mileage a bit, hit the sessions a little bit harder, get a sharpener race in one week out and then a very handy week leading up to the race itself.

Do you think this is a reasonable approach? How would you approach a goal race over the XC season?

Timmaay

Train and race away as usual, and back off the 4days previous to a target race.