All-Ireland Hurling Final 2015 - Kilkenny v. Galway@15:30 Croke Park MOD NOTE POST #1

Ace2007

josip wrote: »

My friends in Wexford are more likely to blame soccer or football or even rugby for Wexford's demise in the hurling.
I've never heard a Wexford man blaming it on being demoralised by Kilkenny.

There are various different reasons why other counties are no where near Kilkenny.

Take Dublin for example there are many top class talented hurlers playing the football - If they honestly thought that Dublin had a chance of winning Liam, i reckon they would be playing the hurling. Take Brady for example - can't get into the Dublin 15, but would walk onto the hurlers, but chose the football.

Offaly/Waterford etc - Recession has hit these counties very hard, many clubs have been hit hard with good young players leaving - which weakens the leagues in said counties. Work commitments probably mean most of these guys are in Dublin, going back and forth for training, knowing that they will get thump by Kilkenny is going to be soul destroying.

Now look at Kilkenny - they concentrate on one code, the players are born and bread hurling, When the recession struck, i'd say the players where looked after, in the same way Dublin footballers are looked after, i.e given cars by local dealerships, a job where others might not be able to get in, extra time off from these companies for training/matches - Not every county has the ability to offer this.

A few years ago Donegal had a helicopter brining lads home for training from UCD twice a week - there is a cost there being borne by someone.

Mountainlad

There is absolutely no comparison between Offaly and Waterford at the moment and I'm highly offended.

dastardly00

I reckon they'll go for Larkin for MOTM.

EDIT: nevermind!

dastardly00

David Burke, TJ and Mick Fennelly nominated for MOTM.

RobertKK

TJ Reid will win it.

RobertKK

Well done Michael Fennelly, won it 4-3 it seems.

dastardly00

Mick Fennelly wins MOTM.

I'm delighted for him. The pain that man has to suffer in order to play the game he loves is unbelievable. He's constantly had a serious injury for the last two years that won't heal.

He's a colossal player.

sunsetkid1

any one post the game on you tube

Chrissybhoy

dastardly00 wrote: »

I reckon they'll go for Larkin for MOTM.

EDIT: nevermind!

I was with you should definitely of been one of the nominees

BarryD

BarryD wrote: »

Is this not a problem though in itself and perhaps he should have taken the opportunity quietly last year or in 2013. The longer he stays on and the more success that KK have, it increases the pressure on the KK teams that follow to win - just purely to show that it wasn't all down to the manager. If they do keep it up, the AI game will arguably suffer and if they don't, people will say they can't do it without Cody etc. Lose, lose situation?

You see the problem isn't with the winners but with the chasing pack. Is Athletics in trouble because of Usain Bolts dominance? Sport needs pace setters


I do feel for the next Kilkenny manager because the expectation level will be through the roof for him now but at the same time there will come a time that Brian will have to step down for whatever reason.


Football has been that bit more evolutionary in the sense that Dublin and Kerry have responded to the Ulster threat Tipp have came close to matching Kilkenny on occasion. We beat them in 09 and lost in 10 but we have taken steps back and forth since then while in fairness to Kilkenny they have found a whole new gear.

dastardly00

Mountainlad wrote: »

There is absolutely no comparison between Offaly and Waterford at the moment and I'm highly offended.

Yeah, quite bizarre to lump Waterford in with Offaly

citykat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I do feel for the next Kilkenny manager because the expectation level will be through the roof for him now .

Nobody in Kilkenny would expect anybody to emulate Cody.

Ace2007

dastardly00 wrote: »

Yeah, quite bizarre to lump Waterford in with Offaly

It's pretty much every other hurling county in the country, You have Kilkenny, and then Dublin, and then the rest.

I say the rest because Dublin is where the majority of the jobs are, so you don't have lads having to travel 100 miles twice a week for training.

citykat

Ace2007 wrote: »

It's pretty much every other hurling county in the country, You have Kilkenny, and then Dublin, and then the rest.

I say the rest because Dublin is where the majority of the jobs are, so you don't have lads having to travel 100 miles twice a week for training.

Plenty of jobs in Cork & Galway.

savannahkat

Kilkenny do not play football. Kilkenny are able to provide more to the players in the way of jobs and cars etc, Kilkenny success will ruin hurling.
What a load of old rubbish, tripe and plain jealousy. Show me where the attendance were down this year or the television audience were down. The fact is people tune in hope just as much to see Kilkenny beaten as the opposition winning and not out of disrespect just fascination.
Attendances are at an all time high, viewership is at an all time high, sponsors are lining up to sell their brand to the top and not so top counties. The stupidity being bandied about with regard to Kilkenny's success is unbelievable, immature and mostly by posters who know absolutely nothing about the sport or why true and genuine followers from every corner of Ireland find it so fascinating and will continue to find it fascinating no matter who wins.
Kilkenny have been the county mostly responsible for the huge increase in the popularity of the game over the past twenty years. For those who want to tune out, good riddance, you were probably never at a match in the first place and abuse the game with your keyboards rubbish.
Have the good grace to solute a great team any other reaction is born of pure jealousy.

Mountainlad

Ace2007 wrote: »

It's pretty much every other hurling county in the country, You have Kilkenny, and then Dublin, and then the rest.

I say the rest because Dublin is where the majority of the jobs are, so you don't have lads having to travel 100 miles twice a week for training.

Bit simplistic now to be honest. For a start, they're training more than two days a week in the off season. I'm struggling to think of any Waterford hurlers who have emigrated or stopped hurling due to work commitments. Philip Mahony was in Cavan a couple of years ago I think but that's it as far as I can remember. Stephen O Keeffe works in Dublin but outside of him I'm not sure does anyone else, couple of lads in college up there as well. It's not really that bad of a journey to be honest to anywhere in the East anyway.

Can't imagine that has much to do with Kilkennys dominance.

Very Bored

savannahkat wrote: »

Kilkenny do not play football. Kilkenny are able to provide more to the players in the way of jobs and cars etc, Kilkenny success will ruin hurling.
What a load of old rubbish, tripe and plain jealousy. Show me where the attendance were down this year or the television audience were down. The fact is people tune in hope just as much to see Kilkenny beaten as the opposition winning and not out of disrespect just fascination.
Attendances are at an all time high, viewership is at an all time high, sponsors are lining up to sell their brand to the top and not so top counties. The stupidity being bandied about with regard to Kilkenny's success is unbelievable, immature and mostly by posters who know absolutely nothing about the sport or why true and genuine followers from every corner of Ireland find it so fascinating and will continue to find it fascinating no matter who wins.
Kilkenny have been the county mostly responsible for the huge increase in the popularity of the game over the past twenty years. For those who want to tune out, good riddance, you were probably never at a match in the first place and abuse the game with your keyboards rubbish.
Have the good grace to solute a great team any other reaction is born of pure jealousy.

Top post. I would add that those who pour bile onto Kilkenny's success could get the competition they crave by watching club hurling. I'd wonder how few of them know it exists though.

glued

I don't get this Kilkenny are ruining hurling nonsense. Mentally teams have a massive weakness when playing Kilkenny. It's up to other counties to up their game and match Kilkenny at the top level. The Championship could use a shake up but it won't change the fact that Kilkenny under Cody are extremely difficult to beat.

It's embarrassing when people are saying Kilkenny are ruining hurling. It's complete nonsense. You can't teach the commitment and drive that these players have and then of course no other county has a Brian Cody and there is no manager that is even close to him. Until Cody goes there won't be much of a change IMO.

dastardly00

Tommy Tiernan and a priest sitting beside each other at the match!

enda1

Kilkenny fan here.

While obviously delighted with the result, I thought Galway threw that away. Those two easy wides in the first half and then a string in the second were unforgivable. They bottled it unfortunately (for hurling that is) and in terms of skill and athleticism had the chance to win.

It really is in the mental game, the belief where Kilkenny have the biggest edge. Opposition teams need fanatics like Davy Fitz to instil that belief in them to get them over that mental block of the Cats.

Also I think Cunningham's horrible decision to sub Aidan Harte after 25 minutes really shook players' confidence (just speculating here but it seemed like a decision showing little confidence in his team).

Very Bored

enda1 wrote: »

Kilkenny fan here.

While obviously delighted with the result, I thought Galway threw that away. Those two easy wides in the first half and then a string in the second were unforgivable. They bottled it unfortunately (for hurling that is) and in terms of skill and athleticism had the chance to win.

It really is in the mental game, the belief where Kilkenny have the biggest edge. Opposition teams need fanatics like Davy Fitz to instil that belief in them to get them over that mental block of the Cats.

Also I think Cunningham's horrible decision to sub Aidan Harte after 25 minutes really shook players' confidence (just speculating here but it seemed like a decision showing little confidence in his team).

Davy's fanaticism hasn't been getting Clare over too many blocks of any kind since they won the All Ireland.

enda1

Very Bored wrote: »

Davy's fanaticism hasn't been getting Clare over too many blocks of any kind since they won the All Ireland.

You also need the skill! Galway's skill and Clare's belief perhaps.

Very Bored

enda1 wrote: »

You also need the skill! Galway's skill and Clare's belief perhaps.

Clare have bundles of skill. The problem is Davy. And I'm saying that as someone who rated him very highly until the last couple of years.

dastardly00

enda1 wrote: »

Opposition teams need fanatics like Davy Fitz to instil that belief in them to get them over that mental block of the Cats.

Huh? I must have amnesia because I can't remember Davy Fitz's Clare beating KK in the championship

dastardly00

Very Bored wrote: »

Clare have bundles of skill. The problem is Davy. And I'm saying that as someone who rated him very highly until the last couple of years.

Yep, I totally agree.

jacool

glued wrote: »

I don't get this Kilkenny are ruining hurling nonsense. Mentally teams have a massive weakness when playing Kilkenny. It's up to other counties to up their game and match Kilkenny at the top level. The Championship could use a shake up but it won't change the fact that Kilkenny under Cody are extremely difficult to beat.

It's embarrassing when people are saying Kilkenny are ruining hurling. It's complete nonsense. You can't teach the commitment and drive that these players have and then of course no other county has a Brian Cody and there is no manager that is even close to him. Until Cody goes there won't be much of a change IMO.

What people are fed up with is the same team winning again and again. Its like the hatred of Man Utd in soccer. Yesterday all the neutrals were cheering on Galway because they were massive underdogs. They are not talking about the game (as in skills, commitment, ability, etc.) simply the fact that in this century they have been winning all round them at a senior level. If someone else kept winning, it would be exactly the same.
In the 90s in football when there were 8 different winners people were enthralled, now that's down to 4 main counties. People perceive hurling as being down to one (despite Tipp and Clare recently). That's all.

josip

In the 70s and 80s I used to support Kerry as a neutral, even though they also won all round them.
Was I alone in this? I thought everyone else supported them also?
Were they more likeable/easier on the eye than Kilkenny?
Was it because their nemesis was Dublin and invariably nobody from "the rest of the country" wanted Dublin to win?
Or was it because that Kerry team were full of characters that people found entertaining? Jacko, Paidi, Mikey, Pat the "Bollix", The Bomber,...

Very Bored

jacool wrote: »

What people are fed up with is the same team winning again and again. Its like the hatred of Man Utd in soccer. Yesterday all the neutrals were cheering on Galway because they were massive underdogs. They are not talking about the game (as in skills, commitment, ability, etc.) simply the fact that in this century they have been winning all round them at a senior level. If someone else kept winning, it would be exactly the same.
In the 90s in football when there were 8 different winners people were enthralled, now that's down to 4 main counties. People perceive hurling as being down to one (despite Tipp and Clare recently). That's all.

What you're saying here is fine and completely understandable. Its the same reason why many soccer fans want to see someone other than Barcelona winning the Champions League, and why many were glad to see a new World Cup winner after Spain's domination. However, scroll back a few pages in this thread and you will see that there are those who are indeed spewing bile at Kilkenny through a whole variety of issues. I don't mind anyone not wanting Kilkenny to win, that's fine. Its when daft ideas like "Kilkenny are the ruination of hurling" get spouted out that the discussion degenerates.

threeball

Galway fell to KK's reputation rather than how fantastic KK were yesterday but KK are amazing at closing out games they really shouldn't win.
To say they are bad for hurling is just rubbish. Yes people are bored of watching them win but until people look past the reputation and realise they are not the KK team of the drive for 5 then they'll stay champs.

The only downside to KK winning so much is that it doesn't even mean much to their fans anymore. They were outnumbered at least 4 to 1 yesterday, there was no atmosphere at the game and once the final whistle went you wouldn't even know who won watching the supporters leaving the stadium. The ecstatic joy and gut wrenching feeling of anticipating a major win is gone and it leads to very dull atmospheres at games.

Very Bored

threeball wrote: »

Galway fell to KK's reputation rather than how fantastic KK were yesterday but KK are amazing at closing out games they really shouldn't win.
To say they are bad for hurling is just rubbish. Yes people are bored of watching them win but until people look past the reputation and realise they are not the KK team of the drive for 5 then they'll stay champs.

The only downside to KK winning so much is that it doesn't even mean much to their fans anymore. They were outnumbered at least 4 to 1 yesterday, there was no atmosphere at the game and once the final whistle went you wouldn't even know who won watching the supporters leaving the stadium. The ecstatic joy and gut wrenching feeling of anticipating a major win is gone and it leads to very dull atmospheres at games.

It means as much as it ever did to us. As other users have remarked, we were well outnumbered, because of population size, by Galway and Tipp brought numbers for the minor too. See how many turn out for the homecoming tonight before making snap judgements as to whether or not it still means something to the people of Kilkenny.

TCDStudent1

Very Bored wrote: »

It means as much as it ever did to us. As other users have remarked, we were well outnumbered, because of population size, by Galway and Tipp brought numbers for the minor too. See how many turn out for the homecoming tonight before making snap judgements as to whether or not it still means something to the people of Kilkenny.

Not sure population really comes into it for ai day.

Hopefully there will be a great homecoming for Kilkenny tonight because they deserve much more than the subdued atmosphere they received for the presentation yesterday.

josip

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Not sure population really comes into it for ai day...

It does a bit. Galway with the bigger population have more senior clubs so they got around 6,000 tickets versus Kilkenny's 5,000. They also got 1,000 for the minors.

But the majority of people there have managed to hoover up tickets through contacts/corporate/other counties/the parish priest's dog/whatever.
And then it comes down to Galway with 250,000 people versus Kilkenny with 95,000, so it's more likely for Galway people to nail down a ticket on that basis alone.
But I'd imagine that as regards the tickets, Galway supporters would have been much hungrier than Killkenny supporters.

homerjay2005

enda1 wrote: »

I thought Galway threw that away.

disagree. throwing away a game means a team had chances to win it and were the better team. that does not apply to yesterday.

in that second half, when the game was there to be won Galway completely fell apart, it was one of the most astounding collapses i recall at the top level!

there was also a wind which was a factor, the points Galway were putting over in the first half were going wide in the second.

Kilkenny won and deservedly so.

threeball

Very Bored wrote: »

It means as much as it ever did to us. As other users have remarked, we were well outnumbered, because of population size, by Galway and Tipp brought numbers for the minor too. See how many turn out for the homecoming tonight before making snap judgements as to whether or not it still means something to the people of Kilkenny.

You may think that it does but from the outside looking in I can tell you there was very little joy in the faces of KK fans yesterday. A fleeting moment and a night out on Monday. Its hard to be objective when you're winning every year and you may think it means as much but until you've not won one for 5yrs plus you won't really know.
Even from a Galway perspective I can tell you the emotion and reception of winning the 98 football final was light years ahead of winning the 2001 final. When you've won 8 from 10 its never the same.

ykt0di9url7bc3

threeball wrote: »

The only downside to KK winning so much is that it doesn't even mean much to their fans anymore. They were outnumbered at least 4 to 1 yesterday, there was no atmosphere at the game and once the final whistle went you wouldn't even know who won watching the supporters leaving the stadium. The ecstatic joy and gut wrenching feeling of anticipating a major win is gone and it leads to very dull atmospheres at games.

There is a sizeable difference between both counties populations. That being said, I only heard the "Fields of Athenry" once during the game and I could hear the shouting and roaring from the Kilkenny fans, letting your voice be heard as I had done years before.
Tipperary and Cork supporters irk me with their chants, you cant drown out "TIPP TIPP TIPP" or "Re-Bels Re-Bels Re-Bels" Their chants are so good, you cant drown out that.
The game's script has much to do with the crowd as their passion. Galway come out intense and physical, they come out at such a level that would be unsustainable but it is a shock to the Kilkenny players and fans. I can see the Half Backs being swarmed, their clearances being shot out in hope but being collected by Galway's Half Backs and shot right back in. The game wasnt pretty, few are, its a tough sport with fine margins for success, its effective.
Watching the highlights afterwards I was able to enjoy the match as I wasnt shouting and screaming bag-of-nerves in my living room. I can hear the roar when TJ slotted home , I can hear the anger when Coen tried to take Fennelly's head off. I can see my cousin in the Hill screaming his lungs out well after the final whistle. 2015 was not a classic by any stretch but you cannot deny the passion of the fans

"threeball: The ecstatic joy and gut wrenching feeling of anticipating a major win is gone"

You can take a trip down to Kilkenny today, Park at the Q-Park see the team depart from the Castle, follow the crowd up and ask how many were at it, hear the cheers on the streets, hear them shout again and again in Nowlan Park.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEN7CZD1abs

PS: very jealous of Tipp and Cork chants

mickmackey1

threeball wrote: »

You may think that it does but from the outside looking in I can tell you there was very little joy in the faces of KK fans yesterday. A fleeting moment and a night out on Monday. Its hard to be objective when you're winning every year and you may think it means as much but until you've not won one for 5yrs plus you won't really know.
Even from a Galway perspective I can tell you the emotion and reception of winning the 98 football final was light years ahead of winning the 2001 final. When you've won 8 from 10 its never the same.

You're totally missing the point there, the very best in all sports want to keep winning no matter how many they've won. Its an addiction, an obsession.

Federer has won 17 slams but would kill to win another, Woods the same. Its that drive to always be the best, to play against the history books rather than merely their opponents on the day, which separates them from the mere mortals, the counties/players of average ambition who are content with their one or two titles.

threeball

mickmackey1 wrote: »

You're totally missing the point there, the very best in all sports want to keep winning no matter how many they've won. Its an addiction, an obsession.

Federer has won 17 slams but would kill to win another, Woods the same. Its that drive to always be the best, to play against the history books rather than merely their opponents on the day, which separates them from the mere mortals, the counties/players of average ambition who are content with their one or two titles.

I think you are the one missing the point my friend. I never once questioned the KK players will or desire. I merely stated that KK fans have become so accustomed to it that it means little anymore. Quite what that has to do with your post above is anyone's guess.

rockonollie

I'm fed up of the rubbish about Kilkenny's dominance being bad for hurling. Counties need to strive to be like Kilkenny, not to beat them. It's more than just tactics, it's a mentality throughout the whole county. Even outside of the great infrastructure in their underage development system, there's the culture of hurling. The time dedicated to hurling from a young age is unmatched, take the Richie Power example yesterday, had just won the all-Ireland, Croke Park was clear, team loading on the bus, and he was still togged out pucking around with his son.

I don't know if any nuetrals have been to a Kilkenny training session, but their 30 minute games in training are more entertaining than any game in the championship this season (with the exception of Tipp-Galway), there is no holding back, everyone plays at full championship pace. Many wonder how Cody can lose players like Shefflin, Delaney, Hogan, etc and still win......well players like Joey Holden, Ger Alyward and Conor Fogarty have been marking those veterans in traning matches for the last 2-3 years. Inevitably, Eoin Larkin will be the next to pack it in......but there's already forwards on the bench and extended panel that face off against Jackie Tyrell and Paul Murphy every week.

dastardly00

threeball wrote: »

I merely stated that KK fans have become so accustomed to it that it means little anymore.

Tell that to the KK fans who were at the match yesterday, and other matches throughout the year. And to all the fans who will be at the homecoming tonight.

Ok fair enough every KK fan wasn't going absolutely bonkers at full time yesterday, but to say that it means little anymore is just wrong.

threeball

dastardly00 wrote: »

Tell that to the KK fans who were at the match yesterday, and other matches throughout the year. And to all the fans who will be at the homecoming tonight.

Ok fair enough every KK fan wasn't going absolutely bonkers at full time yesterday, but to say that it means little anymore is just wrong.

I was at the match yesterday and I saw KK fans face to face. They were not anymore excited than if they had won a semi final. There's no shame in saying the 11th isn't as good as the first. Its not a criticism of KK fans or KK people its just the realities of being successful. Man Utd fans had very little appreciation of winning their last Premiership title as it was a yearly occurrence. They'll appreciate the next one a lot more as it looks like it will be a few years yet. I don't know why you're being so defensive its simply not possible to care as much when its an annual occurrence. To think that it means as much as a win would have meant to Galway yesterday or for Mayo to win the football is simply not true.

Sunflower 27

threeball wrote: »

You may think that it does but from the outside looking in I can tell you there was very little joy in the faces of KK fans yesterday. A fleeting moment and a night out on Monday. Its hard to be objective when you're winning every year and you may think it means as much but until you've not won one for 5yrs plus you won't really know.
Even from a Galway perspective I can tell you the emotion and reception of winning the 98 football final was light years ahead of winning the 2001 final. When you've won 8 from 10 its never the same.

Speak for yourself. The delight I saw on faces was incredible. People jumping around hi-fiving. Incredible win yet again. Never tire of that winning feeling.

threeball

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Speak for yourself. The delight I saw on faces was incredible. People jumping around hi-fiving. Incredible win yet again. Never tire of that winning feeling.

I am speaking for myself, who did you think I was speaking for?

Sunflower 27

threeball wrote: »

I am speaking for myself, who did you think I was speaking for?

It's a saying for God's sake. Plenty of happy faces where I was. Sorry to hear it was miserable for you. That sucks.

dastardly00

threeball wrote: »

I was at the match yesterday and I saw KK fans face to face. They were not anymore excited than if they had won a semi final. There's no shame in saying the 11th isn't as good as the first. Its not a criticism of KK fans or KK people its just the realities of being successful. Man Utd fans had very little appreciation of winning their last Premiership title as it was a yearly occurrence. They'll appreciate the next one a lot more as it looks like it will be a few years yet. I don't know why you're being so defensive its simply not possible to care as much when its an annual occurrence. To think that it means as much as a win would have meant to Galway yesterday or for Mayo to win the football is simply not true.

Was yesterday as exciting as some of the previous victories under Cody: probably not. It wasn't a tight finish and we were the better team in the 2nd half by a long way.

Does it get less exciting each year we win the AI under Cody: probably not. 2014 and 2012 was better than 2007 or 2002 for example.

Is it true to say that it 'means little anymore' to KK fans: definitely not. It is those choice of words in your post that I am referring to.

The_Kew_Tour

Hurling has become a bore, but that's not Kilkenny's fault. They are a class team miles ahead of their nearest rivals.

You can't blame them and every year they are as hungry as the last which is unique and shows the character of the management and players.

As a Corkman I take my hat off to Kilkenny.

Sunflower 27

dastardly00 wrote: »

Was yesterday as exciting as some of the previous victories under Cody: probably not. It wasn't a tight finish and we were the better team in the 2nd half by a long way.

Does it get less exciting each year we win the AI under Cody: probably not. 2014 and 2012 was better than 2007 or 2002 for example.

Is it true to say that it 'means little anymore' to KK fans: definitely not. It is those choice of words in your post that I am referring to.

Well said.

dastardly00

Short interview with Walter Walsh on The Second Captain's podcast, starts at the 20 minute mark.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/second-captains

mickmackey1

threeball wrote: »

I think you are the one missing the point my friend. I never once questioned the KK players will or desire. I merely stated that KK fans have become so accustomed to it that it means little anymore. Quite what that has to do with your post above is anyone's guess.

You are implying that just because you would lose interest in constantly winning, then so does everyone else. I was ecstatic when Limerick won 3 in a row u-21s in 2002 and wanted us to go on to win 4,5, 6 in a row.

Kilkenny will now want the hat-trick next year and all purist hurling observers will applaud them if they achieve it.

But to each their own I suppose.

RobertKK

speaking as a Kilkenny person...
Before a game like an All Ireland final, you just want the team to win, you are excited and nervous, the match is tense and each score they get brings a bit of relief, but this is hurling and it is easy to overturn a lead, so you are never sure and it keeps the tension going.
When we win, it brings great joy but also relief that we haven't lost it.

Anyone who thinks it doesn't mean that much are very much mistaken, Kilkenny have the most to lose since we have been winning the most. We feel privileged to have such a good team and it is not something we take for granted.

When Kilkenny does lose a final, I just block out any TV or radio coverage as it is just awful to lose a final. Counties who get teams to a final and lose know what I am talking about. If you don't win the final, you don't want to be hearing about the final. The better team may have won, but one does have a lot of expectations built into a final and when they are crushed it something one wants to forget.

Polster

Hi, could someone tell me what the final tally 'from play' was for TJ Reid. Paddy Power have him down for the goal, so for that bet he shares it. I thought he scored 1-1 from play in the first half, and half the media are reporting this, half not. GAA.ie have him 1-7 (5f, 1 65), Irish Times have him 1-8 (5f, 2 65's), Sky and RTE have him 1-7 (5f, 2 65's).

I'm in London so can't get a handy replay to check myself. Appreciate if anyone could confirm?

Cheers, Paul