Syndicates on the Shannon ?

BobbyBingo

Hi all
I'm new to the Shannon experience and really taken by it. I think I have the bug! Have rented for a few seasons with the family and we all love it. So half considering the slippery slope of ownership and have been browsing Apolloduck. I came across an advert for a part share - 1/6th in fact for a boat in Carrick. Now the boat in question isn't big enough so wouldn't suit - but it got me thinking - rather than invest a whole pile of money, could this be a way to dip my toe in the boat ownership water, whilst defraying a whole pile of upfront cost ? Has anyone experience of syndicate ownership ? Are they common in Ireland ?

Much obliged
B

fergal.b

Hi BobbyBingo and welcome, there are a lot of cheep cruisers around at the moment and it's a buyers market. I think the boat share idea might work in a better climate but in Ireland it's more a case of the sun is shining so lets go and if it's a share boat your slotted time might never match up with the weather :eek:




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neris

boat shares of any sort can be dodgy and a nightmare especially if you,ll be buying into someone elses boat. If you can buy a boat alone do it even if youve to compromise for somthing smaller. Many a good friendship has been ruined by boatshares so think what it,ll be like with a stranger

BobbyBingo

Thanks for the advice - I do hear you. In general aviation, fractional ownership is really popular and works - I just hadnt thought of it in boating terms I suppose - but obviously not all that popular so.. I was losing the run of myself thinking this could be the route into boating!

Fergal B. - in terms of it being a buyers market - in your experience, does the asking price reflect the reality of what's attained ? For instance, saw a nice boat, a Birchwood Ts37 in Portumna - from what I can find online, the asking price is 87k. Is it a bit like buying a car, where you'd expect to be able to negotiate a few quid off (a few as opposed to a lot) ? Also, generally, do people finance boat purchase themselves or are there boat finance options ?

Sorry if these questions are totally naieve..

B

hytrogen

Depends on your own finances, I'm not sure if banks would appreciate you weighing anchor at the moment but probably credit unions would for a small loan towards it.
In a way it is like buying a car, depends if it's adverts.ie or through a brokerage. Brokerages would typically be more expensive because they need the commission for advertising etc. and checked out the craft is top notch where as a private deal, depending on how fallen out the owner is with the vessel, is more negotiable in other ways.
If you would be going into a joint venture with another party be very very good friends, have very open communication, make sure you all can put up with each others snoring for those weekends you all end up on it & are happy in close quarters and definitely be prepared to be the one to maintain the vessel!
Otherwise maybe look at something smaller or cheaper within your budget and start from there. Like the property market at the mo, a tin of paint, sand paper & antifoul, not to mention a powerhose!, goes a long way for a small profit

fergal.b

If you are spending that sort of money and the boat is new you may not have much movement but if it's second hand just offer what you think it's worth and then walk away they will probably come running after you also if you are spending that much money on a second hand boat you should get an engineers report done on her.

A lot of finance companies do a marine mortgage for boats.

Ask all the questions you can think off no matter how silly you think they are it's a big step to be taking.

87k is a lot of money to spend on your first boat along with all the other costs and if you are going to be getting a loan don't look at it like an investment it will go down in value very fast, as with all boats no matter what the cost we all have champagne taste as said you might be better off getting something cheeper that you can afford to loose a few quid on and do a test year on that to see if you and your family really do take to the water.


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BobbyBingo

Thanks lads - and no sorry - no intention of spending that type of money - even if I had it! Just wondering what type of discount could be reached on something at that value. Thanks for all the advice.. Brilliant to get proper insight.

B

pH

I was moored up last night beside a chap who was in a 20 slot syndicate - he was very happy with it, but they were all in the same workplace so YMMV.

For what it's worth, some sort of sharing in many ways is ideal, even with fresh enthusiasm and a nice boat with good weather it's hard to get that much usage out of it - life tends to get in the way - I love my boat, we use it for our main holiday every year and try to get as many weekends as possible on it - i also use it with mates for fishing - yet when I look at my log it was slept on just less than 50 times last year. Marinas are absolutely littered with boats both in and out of the water that are hardly being used.

Now if your boat isn't "perfect", and the weather's terrible - enthusiasm can wain pretty quickly.

Also you'd need to budget 1500 pa for mooring and winter lift (much more at posher marinas), maybe 300 for a Summer's diesel (much much more if you buy a big twin engined sports-boat) round that to 2k to include a service by a competent marine mechanic and anti-foul. Now you've wear and tear - unless the boat is pretty much brand new you, things will need replacing - budget another 500 for this - though if something big goes wrong you could be looking at some vert expensive payouts.

While nearly 90k seems expensive, you'll be looking certainly at 40-50k for a largish clean cruiser so when you add the cost of this money to your annual costs coming up with a figure of 5k p.a. is not unreasonable - which for my usage works out at slightly over 100 euro per night used!

Now don't get me wrong - i love my boat and the Shannon - but the waterways are absolutely full of abandoned dreams - there are 2 cliches that are worth repeating because they do hold a germ of truth in them - the first being "The 2 best days in a boat owner's life" and the second being that old chestnut about preparing yourself for boat ownership by standing under a cold shower and ripping up 20 euro notes.

And bear in mind I'm posting this from my cabin in Lanesborough at the top of Lough Ree after a wonderful days cruising - so maybe I'm the last person you should be listening to

BobbyBingo

Thanks pH - interesting to hear of a syndicate working. I wonder if there are others. In fairness to the Birchwood people, their syndicate sounds well run - but as with everything in life, the proof of the pudding... Here's what they say:

"The Pegasus syndicate consists of six owners and has operated successfully for upwards of 25 years, thus gaining a great deal of experience of boating on the River Shannon. A full briefing, familiarisation and training will be provided as required. The syndicate operates a 30 week season from April to October, so five weeks availability for each owner in a full season, weeks are drawn at our AGM held in January every year. Three weeks remaining this year with a choice of dates in August, September and October. Allocated weeks can be switched as required between members, so generally it is possible to mix & match to meet individual needs. Normal handover is at 6.00 pm on Friday evenings, unless otherwise arranged between the parties.

Annual running costs, including marina berth mooring, insurance, electricity, servicing & repair cost is circa €500 per member per annum, but based on actual expense so can vary from year to year. Accordingly, €15,000 per share places a total value on the boat of €90,000 and represents a very good investment given such a high specification boat, as similar boats are selling outright in the UK at prices in excess of €100k. The insured value of our boat (renewal December) is stg £97k / €138k, representing the purchase price back in 2007. Also, to mention that the hire cost of a similar boat on the Shannon is over €2,000 per week during the high season."

If anyone knows of a share for sale in a bigger boat, then pls let me know! Surely paying that kind of money, if the syndicate worked as above, it'd be worth serious consideration ?

B

pH

Yes from what I understand the best syndicates are like businesses, everything is quite formal and specified - so for 15k down and approx 500 pa you get 5 weeks - so if you're lucky with dates or can swap you should be able to get at least a 2 week holiday and 3 long weekends on her so that's around 22 nights - OK some of those nights might be in April/October - not ideal but still. The point being that compared to my example you're paying 1/5 of the cost but getting about 1/2 my usage!

As for bigger boats, here's your problem, they do exist but the 6 berth - 2 cabins +2 more in a converted dining is by far the most common, larger boats are mainly in the hire market, Silverline currently have an ex hire 8 berth for sale but by looking for more than 6 berths you're excluding yourself from perhaps 90% of the market, and while I'm not an expert,I'd say that the number of syndicates running 8 berth boats is small.

Anyway good luck with your hunt whatever you decide to do!

Andy2050

Hi Bobby ,
In the last few days ive also been thinking about boat sharing . Have been looking at Broom Crowns 37 and thought
that it would be a perfect boat for a family and possible part time live aboard. unfortunately the ceiling heights seem on the low side. My father is 6 ft 4 and my brother slightly taller again so that fairly well rules out the Crown for us. To go the next step would be to a dutch steel boat or maybe a newer Broom, which will be up over the 100,000 euro mark. That got me thinking about boat syndicate concept. It seems to make perfect sense from a financial point of view sharing costs and in keeping the boat lived in for as much as possible hence keeping damp out.
I would be interested to hear if you find out any more about boat syndicates and if anyone else also has info on boats with high ceiling heights.
Thanks Andy