Leg Injury - Dog

Drexel

Hi, just wanted to see has anyone else been in this situation and what the time frame for recovery is.

Dog hurt her back leg about 3 1/2 weeks ago. Shes been to the vet and he said its not a bone and its probably a ligament. Its not her ACL though, its up higher, closer to her hip. He gave us anti-inflammatory tablets and we have been back for 2 check ups since. He said total bed rest for six weeks which we have been doing.

Its just there has been no real improvement on her at all in over 3 weeks. She still doesnt use the leg at all. She keeps it up.
We dont have the vet again now until next week, but I thought there would have been some improvement by now. Its killing me to keep her crated so much. Shes miserable.

Has anyone been through something similar and what time frame can we expect with her?

andreac

You sure it's not her cruciate? Did they xray her? Usually with the cruciate they won't put weight on the leg so it really does sound like it's the cruciate. I'd be getting a second opinion to be honest.

tk123

Has she had x-rays yet? With my vet if it was 3 weeks of rest like you say and no improvement she'd take my dog in for xrays. We had issues before where we had to change tablets too because they weren't helping.

Try not to be too worried though - it can take a long time for muscles to heal and it can be an overnight thing - suddenly they're fine! My boy pulled something a few months ago and it must have taken a good 2 months to fully heal - we even had xrays to be safe! It was my girl's fault - she ran into him and floored him one morning in the park lol!

Léan

Just to echo what Andreac said, i'd get an x-ray and/or second opinion sooner rather then later.

My fella had TPLO surgery on his left leg in June.

The vet suspected it was a partial tear, so we spent a few weeks trying to manage it conservatively, inflammatories and crate rest. He was improving slowly but honestly, his quality of life was rubbish, to try and keep a 4 yr GSD X confined, not so easy. One day his leg deteriorated more suddenly, we got the x-ray and as predicted, cruciate tear. What seemed to be only a partial tear before was now quite bad.

Imho even with conservative treatment, if it is the cruciate, you're really only prolonging then inevitable. Surgery is 8 weeks + recovery time. We had at leat 4 weeks of restriction before this, that's a long time for a dog to be banged up.

Also, if you're not insured, i'd really recommend getting insurance at this point.

Michelle_b

Not me but my aunts dog. She was on painkillers and anti inflammatory and rest and used to yelp anytime had it down.Had her crated most of time unless laying watching tv beside her. After 6 weeks though started moving around better up to that point she was still limping and holding it up.. It's hard to see them in pain but hopefully not much longer

andreac

Only thing is, insurance wont cover this now as its pre-existing.

The only way to determine a cruciate tear is an xray so unless they have done that and ruled it out, then i wouldnt take their word that its not the Cruciate.

Drexel

Hi guys,

thanks for the replies.

No the vet didnt x-ray, he didnt think there was a need. He has examined her 3 times since it happened and he seemed fairly sure it wasnt her ACL from the examination and from my explanation of how it happened (jumped off the couch). When he initially examined her he thought it was tender higher up the leg (right up by her 'leg pit' if you know what I mean)

She isnt in pain (obvious pain) anyways and will use her leg to balance when standing still, when she is eating her food for example. She will put the leg down on her tiptoes and use it for balance or she will scratch herself with that leg

I just feel so bad for her as she is confined so much and thought we would see some improvement by now. Next vet appointment is this day next week so if there is no improvement, I think il get him to x-ray

Aru

If she wasn't in pain.she would walk on the leg.
She is holding it up as she is uncomfortable.
Weight bearing on that leg is clearly painful for her.Thats why she is avoiding doing it.If it wasn't sore she would use it.

I would be looking for x-rays to check hips,cruciate and rule out a stable fracture at this stage. Especially with a history of sudden lameness after jumping off a couch.

To be honest I would have wanted x-rays within 3 days of a dog being nonweight bearing when on painkillers.The sooner the issue is diagnosed,the sooner suitable treatment can be given.

Also if the vet has seen her 3 times, known she was non weight bearing(not happy to put weight on the foot most of the time)each of these times and did not strongly suggest xrays as possibility then I would be looking for a new vet.

What weight/breed of dog is she out of curiosity?

tk123

Aru wrote: »

To be honest I would have wanted x-rays within 3 days of a dog being nonweight bearing when on painkillers.The sooner the issue is diagnosed,the sooner suitable treatment can be given.

Also if the vet has seen her 3 times, known she was non weight bearing(not happy to put weight on the foot most of the time)each of these times and did not strongly suggest xrays as possibility then I would be looking for a new vet.

+1 Agree with this.

andreac

Definitely get that leg xrayed asap as Aru said. If it is the Cruciate, the longer the leg is left unstabilised, the quicker arthritis is going to set in, and this will cause issues.

Whereas if she has done her Cruciate, the sooner you operate the better and less complications will arise. My bitch did her Cruciate and she was operated on within days. The vet says if its left long then the Arthritis will set in, so id be getting it sorted as soon as you can. I wouldnt have left it this long either if shes not weight bearing on that leg. That's not a good sign at all and even a sore muscle or ligament wouldnt cause that much injury/pain for so long.

Drexel

Aru wrote: »

If she wasn't in pain.she would walk on the leg.
She is holding it up as she is uncomfortable.
Weight bearing on that leg is clearly painful for her.Thats why she is avoiding doing it.If it wasn't sore she would use it.

I would be looking for x-rays to check hips,cruciate and rule out a stable fracture at this stage. Especially with a history of sudden lameness after jumping off a couch.

To be honest I would have wanted x-rays within 3 days of a dog being nonweight bearing when on painkillers.The sooner the issue is diagnosed,the sooner suitable treatment can be given.

Also if the vet has seen her 3 times, known she was non weight bearing(not happy to put weight on the foot most of the time)each of these times and did not strongly suggest xrays as possibility then I would be looking for a new vet.

What weight/breed of dog is she out of curiosity?

When I said not in pain I ment not yelping or anything like that. She isnt on any pain killers either

I presumed the vet knew what he was talking about so I didnt press the issue. Never had a dog with an injury before so i trusted the vets advice.

She is a jrt. Small, only 5kgs or so.

tk123

Drexel wrote: »

When I said not in pain I ment not yelping or anything like that. She isnt on any pain killers either

I presumed the vet knew what he was talking about so I didnt press the issue. Never had a dog with an injury before so i trusted the vets advice.

She is a jrt. Small, only 5kgs or so.

My dog walked out of the vets after an operation with the bone in his leg broken and held together with pins and plates - not a care in the world!! They're very good at hiding their pain. I'd ask to see a different vet tbh - I switched vets in the practice we go to and the one we have now is brilliant! My vet would have xrayed and had me back at least twice and if it was still going on at this stage would have referred us to a specialist.

Drexel

tk123 wrote: »

My dog walked out of the vets after an operation with the bone in his leg broken and held together with pins and plates - not a care in the world!! They're very good at hiding their pain. I'd ask to see a different vet tbh - I switched vets in the practice we go to and the one we have now is brilliant! My vet would have xrayed and had me back at least twice and if it was still going on at this stage would have referred us to a specialist.

We have been at the vet 3 times.

First visit he examined her and said the pain was right up by the hip. Said give it a few days. Came back a couple of days later he thought there was improvement (using her leg to balance). Said he could x-ray but because the strain was high up the leg the treatment will still be bed rest.

The following week we went back and he said it could be around 6 weeks and to keep her on bed rest and the tablets.

Its a family run vet, around a long time. I didnt get the feeling he was fobbing me off or anything like that. He gives her a proper examination each time

We have another appointment on Tuesday. Il sit tight til then and see what he says. If there is no improvement il get him to x-ray for sure.

tk123

Drexel wrote: »

We have another appointment on Tuesday. Il sit tight til then and see what he says. If there is no improvement il get him to x-ray for sure.

With our vet they take them in first thing in the morning for xrays so if you can work it to go in the morning fast her from the night before and they'll probably take her in and do it then and save you having to go back and forth Hopefully the xrays will be fine but it's best to know what the story is sooner rather than later so you're not stressing out!

Aru

I didn't mean to imply your vet was wrong or that you were doing anything wrong. Though reading back my post does looks a bit harsh.

But what I am worried about is that if she is still not putting weight on that leg. Its been 3 weeks and she's still to uncomfortable to put it on the ground and bear weight on it.Thats not ideal and I would want to be sure that there isn't anything more serious going on than a simple ligament strain.
At this stage she is losing muscle mass by not using that leg and it will be weaker.Its going to be putting the other leg under more strain as well.
An xray would help pinpoint or at least rule out several potentially serious issues.

Your vet has seen the dog and examined it.They will know better than anyone on the internet.....but I would slightly question their current plan as it does not appear to be working very well and you seem unsure of what exactly is wrong.

I suspect they are on the old school wait and see plan approach as shes a light dog and you may not have been pushing them to pinpoint the exact cause of her lameness. Theres nothing wrong with that,its a very practical approach and she hasn't got worse and many dogs do respond very well to confinement and pain killers. If your happy with that thats fair enough-but you were on the internet looking for opinions and you got them.

The good thing is as she's such a light little dog even if the cruciate is damaged she has a very good chance of the leg remodelling and becoming usable over time with crate rest. most dogs under 15kg do very well with crate rest for cruciate issues.
However the issues are the long term affects of this sort of remodelling- arthritis at an earlier age.

If its a different problem-like the patella moving out of place-which can cause ligament damage and pain in some cases(jrts are prone to those sort of issues) then the options are quite different ...the problems is at the moment you don't know what your dealing with..only that she's sore and hasn't got much better in 3 weeks of cage rest.

If it is a case that you wouldn't want surgery or any invasive procedures anyway then there is nothing wrong with crate rest for such a light dog..The body will eventually learn to cope with many issues if given time to heal...but its nice to have options and know exactly what is and isn't the problem, an x-ray will give you somewhere to start. Its hard to advise on outcomes for issues when there is no confirmed issue.

It may be just a nasty strain and she's taking a while to heal.it might not.

Drexel

Aru wrote: »

I didn't mean to imply your vet was wrong or that you were doing anything wrong. Though reading back my post does looks a bit harsh.

But what I am worried about is that if she is still not putting weight on that leg. Its been 3 weeks and she's still to uncomfortable to put it on the ground and bear weight on it.Thats not ideal and I would want to be sure that there isn't anything more serious going on than a simple ligament strain.
At this stage she is losing muscle mass by not using that leg and it will be weaker.Its going to be putting the other leg under more strain as well.
An xray would help pinpoint or at least rule out several potentially serious issues.

Your vet has seen the dog and examined it.They will know better than anyone on the internet.....but I would slightly question their current plan as it does not appear to be working very well and you seem unsure of what exactly is wrong.

I suspect they are on the old school wait and see plan approach as shes a light dog and you may not have been pushing them to pinpoint the exact cause of her lameness. Theres nothing wrong with that,its a very practical approach and she hasn't got worse and many dogs do respond very well to confinement and pain killers. If your happy with that thats fair enough-but you were on the internet looking for opinions and you got them.

The good thing is as she's such a light little dog even if the cruciate is damaged she has a very good chance of the leg remodelling and becoming usable over time with crate rest. most dogs under 15kg do very well with crate rest for cruciate issues.
However the issues are the long term affects of this sort of remodelling- arthritis at an earlier age.

If its a different problem-like the patella moving out of place-which can cause ligament damage and pain in some cases(jrts are prone to those sort of issues) then the options are quite different ...the problems is at the moment you don't know what your dealing with..only that she's sore and hasn't got much better in 3 weeks of cage rest.

If it is a case that you wouldn't want surgery or any invasive procedures anyway then there is nothing wrong with crate rest for such a light dog..The body will eventually learn to cope with many issues if given time to heal...but its nice to have options and know exactly what is and isn't the problem, an x-ray will give you somewhere to start. Its hard to advise on outcomes for issues when there is no confirmed issue.

It may be just a nasty strain and she's taking a while to heal.it might not.

I appreciate all the advice, I really do.

You are right in saying he is prob an old school vet, he didnt give us any pain killers after we got her neutered or anything. I was shocked but she was ok (and still tried to jump around after the op. painkillers or not).

She is using her leg a small bit for balance and when she is changing position
and she still does a big stretch on it. She also kicks with it after going to the toilet. I had her out at lunch today and she was still hoping on 3 legs but every 2nd hop or so she would limp on the leg. I hadnt seen her do that before.

Unless she is pretty much walking on Tuesday Il be getting an xray

Aru

When I worked in Ireland we rarely gave painkillers for speys. The dogs did not seem to need them and most did fine. Owners reported they were happy at home and seen no issues.

Working abroad has broadened my mind a little.My stories of home occasionally worry my colleagues.

Now all my spays get pre-anaesthetic bloods(most of the time and always if over 8),and all get iv fluids during surgery and go home on 3 days of pain killers, as its the standard of care expected where I am working(downside is-prices reflect it I cannot afford a dog here unless I want to pay full whack on insurance or get a very forgiving interest free credit card).
My speys here leave the vets a hell of a lot happier then they did at home. The main issue is trying to keep them from bouncing to much even on day 1.
I wouldn't be able to send a dog home now without pain relief having seen the difference. Dogs hide pain so much better then we realise and continue on with their daily lives as they just cope. They are amazing creatures.

When it comes to vet care Ireland is still behind in many areas but the basic principles are still the same no matter where you are.

Your dog likely will eventually start to walk on that leg again over time. Shes a light little dog and the body is a wonderful healer given enough time,the problem is some of the potential issues causing that sort of lameness in the hind leg can have long term affects like arthritis.

Looking at the longterm picture its often worth xraying and finding out a cause sooner rather than later as if you know what it is you can fix that issue itself....

It saves the worrying and the wondering..and if it is a case that nothing comes up on the xray at least you know for definite that they do not have cruciate issues/patella issues/a damaged pelvis/a hairline fracture in the femur.

So you can treat it like a muscle or ligament issue knowing you are not causing longterm damage that could have been avoided by doing a surgery while the wound was still relatively fresh and the bone normal and not remodelled.

But the problem is its not always worth doing unless the owner of the pet wants to pursue the lameness and fix it. No point spending a few hundred euro to tell someone that the 2 choices are an unaffordable operation(cruciate surgery costs 1500+ or cage rest) when cage rest alone may resolve the issue.

This is however the modern way of doing things,veterinary is moving in steps towards being more and more to the standard of human medicine. The technology is there,vets are generally trained to a high enough level to apply it or at least know enough about new procedures to refer to specialists. But there is a massive massive catch its generally a much more expensive way of doing things and many of these issues may resolves eventually with a more hands off approach. Hard to know sometimes if old school or modern is more appropriate when it comes to someone else's pet or what path they want to or can afford to take....anyhow now Im rambling il stop.

I do hope your girl comes right !It does sound like she is taking steps in the right direction.

Drexel

Was at the vets last Friday again. No improvement so we got X-rays done today.

Turns out it was her cruciate. I'm so mad.

Mad at the vet for not spotting this the 3/4 times we were there and for not ordering X-rays earlier. Mad at myself for believing him and not insisting on x Rays.

Have to ring the surgery tomorrow to arrange the operation.

No idea how much it will cost as it's another vet practice that did the x rays and will do the operation

Looks like it's going be at least another 6 weeks before she is up and about. Feel so bad for her. Don't think she'll ever be the same dog again. There we signs of arthritis on the leg in the x Ray.

I'm gutted

Léan

Drexel wrote: »

Was at the vets last Friday again. No improvement so we got X-rays done today.

Turns out it was her cruciate. I'm so mad.

Mad at the vet for not spotting this the 3/4 times we were there and for not ordering X-rays earlier. Mad at myself for believing him and not insisting on x Rays.

Have to ring the surgery tomorrow to arrange the operation.

No idea how much it will cost as it's another vet practice that did the x rays and will do the operation

Looks like it's going be at least another 6 weeks before she is up and about. Feel so bad for her. Don't think she'll ever be the same dog again. There we signs of arthritis on the leg in the x Ray.

I'm gutted

I'm so sorry to hear it's the cruciate. As i mentioned a few posts back my dog had surgery on his cruciate the start on June. He is 12 weeks post op next week.

The first few days after surgery were tough, he was so sad, lots of crying; but you should see him now. He's in great spirits, you wouldn't even know he had surgery, fur has fully grown back, he's fully mobile and although he's still not up to long outings yet he's loving his time spent out doors.

I thought he'd never be the same again too and i really did question what i was putting him through the few days after the surgery but he has had such a fantastic recovery, it really changed his life in a great way.

I don't know where you are based, i'm in Cork and have had two fantastic vets take me through the treatment the whole time (Gilabbey). It can seem very daunting at first but it's worth it in the long run imho.

Cost wise it was about €2,900 but insurance covered this for me.

Drexel

Léan wrote: »

Cost wise it was about €2,900 but insurance covered this for me.

Wow! No insurance here.

Why does the price vary so much? A woman in work got her dogs one done for 600.

3k is way out of my price range. Worried now as I was charged 190 for the X-ray

andreac

Do you know what repair procedure they are doing as that will determine cost of operation. There are a few diff ones that can be done.
Can I just say don't worry. Your dog will be absol fine. Just make sure you do exactly as they say regarding recovery and don't try to rush it.
I highly recommend hydrotherapy for the recovery process once she's allowed to do it. It will help build back up the muscles again.
My rottie Bitch had it done, and although not 100% sound enough for the show ring, there isn't a bother on her.

Léan

Drexel wrote: »

Wow! No insurance here.

Why does the price vary so much? A woman in work got her dogs one done for 600.

3k is way out of my price range. Worried now as I was charged 190 for the X-ray

There's tightrope surgery, TTA and TPLO. They all essentially do the same thing but are performed in different ways.
With TPLO the bone is cut, realigned and secured with a plate. The other surgeries were not recommended for my dog because he is young, large and active, they're not as stable. I know with the tightrope surgery for example they effectively use special sutures to mimic ligaments but this can deteriorate quite a bit on large breeds with weight and activity. Every dog is different so age/size/breed will come into play.

There's a bit of a general overview of the surgeries on this site.

My dog is 33kg so that probably had something to do with the cost, anaesthetic etc.. I imagine it might be less for a smaller dog. There's also the cost of the plate and screws for the leg, surgery time and expertise etc.. They also kept him over night to have him ready to walk out the next day (this part i was really glad of, they took excellent care of him). I had several vet visits over the course of the last 2-3 months, this was all included in the price, as were all antibiotics and painkillers.

Even though i had full faith in both my vets from the beginning (regular vet since he was a pup and the veterinary surgeon), I still did a lot of research and it certainly wasn't a decision i took lightly.
I would definitely recommend finding a practice you are 100% comfortable with and have a great track record for whatever surgery you decide.

Drexel

Léan wrote: »

There's tightrope surgery, TTA and TPLO. They all essentially do the same thing but are performed in different ways.
With TPLO the bone is cut, realigned and secured with a plate. The other surgeries were not recommended for my dog because he is young, large and active, they're not as stable. I know with the tightrope surgery for example they effectively use special sutures to mimic ligaments but this can deteriorate quite a bit on large breeds with weight and activity. Every dog is different so age/size/breed will come into play.

There's a bit of a general overview of the surgeries on this site.

My dog is 33kg so that probably had something to do with the cost, anaesthetic etc.. I imagine it might be less for a smaller dog. There's also the cost of the plate and screws for the leg, surgery time and expertise etc.. They also kept him over night to have him ready to walk out the next day (this part i was really glad of, they took excellent care of him). I had several vet visits over the course of the last 2-3 months, this was all included in the price, as were all antibiotics and painkillers.

Even though i had full faith in both my vets from the beginning (regular vet since he was a pup and the veterinary surgeon), I still did a lot of research and it certainly wasn't a decision i took lightly.
I would definitely recommend finding a practice you are 100% comfortable with and have a great track record for whatever surgery you decide.

Hey thanks for the info!

the vet who took the x Ray rang me a
While go. He couldn't tell me an exact price but said he did a similar sized terrier the other day and it came to around 500. Have to ring in the morning for an appointment.

Disappointed my normal vet didn't notice it or do an X-ray earlier. I've been very happy with him for 3 years but I don't think il be going back

Aru

Sorry to hear its turned out to be the cruciate but at least you have been resting her that will make a difference in the long run.Often small dogs under 10 kg have a very good recovery rate with cage rest alone.

I would look into what sort of operation they are planning to do ie if its a lateral suture operation,the tightrope surgery mentioned above or TTA/TPLO operation that they are planning to do.

Different operations have varying degree's of success....and as a general rule you do get what you pay for..but the TTA and TPLO tend to be specialist operations and are often prohibitively expensive.
but that said all operations do tend to be an improvement over the initial presentation.

Its also worth considering that once one cruciate ligament is damaged due to the extra strain (and often the make up of the dogs leg can make them prone in the first place)on the opposite leg there is a danger of the cruciate rupturing on that leg in the future.

tk123

My dog had TPLOs to fix angular limb deformity in Gilabbey 3 and 4 years ago - his back legs were basically curved outwards. He's absolutely fine now - no pain, no restricted exercise, no damage to hips or signs of arthritis.
What I'd do now in your situation is start preparing for the operation and try and get into a routine where she's happy to spend time in the crate so it's not a massive change for her - eg feed her meals in the crate, move her bedding in, give her treats in it etc.

Try not to worry too much - it's daunting thinking about it but once you get the first week done and are in a routine the rest of it will fly by because you'll be concentrating on taking care of her!

Drexel

I think the poor dogs cruicate in the other leg may have gone today.

Not sure what happened her. Went walking this morning and she was fine after. Few hours later Was chilling at home and I went out of the room. Came back in and she was hopping on 3 legs. I didn't hear her let out a yelp or anything this time. She won't walk or put weight on it.

She is only fully back to herself since December after the last operation.

The surgeon warned us this could happen but still gutted for her.

Won't be any messing around this time, straight into the vet who fixed her last time tomorrow.

aonb

Drexel wrote: »

I think the poor dogs cruicate in the other leg may have gone today.

Not sure what happened her. Went walking this morning and she was fine after. Few hours later Was chilling at home and I went out of the room. Came back in and she was hopping on 3 legs. I didn't hear her let out a yelp or anything this time. She won't walk or put weight on it.

She is only fully back to herself since December after the last operation.

The surgeon warned us this could happen but still gutted for her.

Won't be any messing around this time, straight into the vet who fixed her last time tomorrow.

Yikes!! jeez, this is my worst nightmare - my dog is back to normal at last after having cruciate replacement last october - really really keeping fingers crossed for her that its not her other cruciate - maybe shes been using that leg for so long while lame, that shes just pulled a muscle or strained a toe or something let us know how you get on at the vet?

kathleen37

I hope your pup is ok and it's only a strain...

Knine

What type of dog is she? Sometimes a more shallow then normal kneecap can cause CL injuries especially in terrier or toy breeds.

Drexel

Knine wrote: »

What type of dog is she? Sometimes a more shallow then normal kneecap can cause CL injuries especially in terrier or toy breeds.

She is a small jrt. When the vet did the operation on her other leg last year he said he did a small bit of work on her kneecap. I can't remember the exact details but I think he made a groove for her kneecap a bit deeper. Sounds like what you are saying.

Thankfully I don't think it is the same as last time. When we went out this morning she was walking around fairly ok, putting weight on it but with a slight limp tho. We kept her crated for the day. Will see how she is in the morning. If she is the same we will bring her in. Hopefully it's just a strain.