callan

kikel

catbear wrote: »

I missed my point entirely, any commercial enterprise can use the word 'trust' in its name.

Oh, I got your point and went off on a tangent about what I felt the People of Callan beleived was theirs.

kichencat

kikel wrote: »

I think the people of Callan believe that the company was set up in Trust for the people of Callan. The people of Callan are the beneficiaries but the company hold the deeds to the place in trust. the board most likely represents a mix of people from different walk of life who the people of callan believe will look after the place. This type of Trust could go bad depending on who is in control. There are different types of Trust as can be found in the wiki entry here.

Anyone in any doubt about the Friary being left to the People of Callan has only to read the article in Kilkenny People titled "the Augustinians bow out of Callan", dated Feb 16,2005. It clearly stated that the Augustinians left the Friary to the people of the town. It further states that the chairman of Callan community network said Callan owed a debt of gratitude to the Augustinians How much more information do you need that it was given to the town?

kichencat

kikel wrote: »

I think the people of Callan believe that the company was set up in Trust for the people of Callan. The people of Callan are the beneficiaries but the company hold the deeds to the place in trust. the board most likely represents a mix of people from different walk of life who the people of callan believe will look after the place. This type of Trust could go bad depending on who is in control. There are different types of Trust as can be found in the wiki entry here.

Anyone in any doubt about the Friary being left to the People of Callan has only to read the article in Kilkenny People titled "the Augustinians bow out of Callan", dated Feb 16,2005. It clearly stated that the Augustinians left the Friary to the people of the town. It further states that the chairman of Callan community network said Callan owed a debt of gratitude to the Augustinians How much more information do you need that it was given to the town?

If the people of Callan are beneficiaries of The Friary Trust, then why are they not informed of changes in the running of the trust? Such huge shifts would merit an information meeting to let these beneficiaries know what is decided on their behalf. Why is it so hard to get any information about the Callan community Network, the people of Callan are not children and should not be treated as such

Help!!!!

The Callan community network are hoping the people of Callan wont notice or wont care.

kichencat

Help!!!! wrote: »

The Callan community network are hoping the people of Callan wont notice or wont care.

That's exactly the point though isn't it? We should notice and we should care about the Town and what is happening in it

kichencat

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Can anyone please explain as to how the friary was left to the people of Callan and now someone has taken it away, all the groups having been ejected. Is the politician prepared to make a statement as to what has transpired, and where did the 300,000 euro for work come from? Please we cannot let this matter rest we need answers, we live in a transparent society but in Callan it appears to be undercover. Foxy will not let this one rest

So what happens now Foxy? The FRC have moved out & the Callan Community Network are in residence & the people of Callan have no answers & no idea what is going on.
All the CCN have to do is keep quiet & say nothing, they are like smoke on the wind. You said you would not let it rest. So what now? Questions on their Facebook page? Call the ghost busters? What's the plan?

catbear

Foxy, the answer to your question lies with the Augustinians. Only they know why they chose who they did to pass on their property to.

foxcoverteddy

Hi everyone, well having given this some thought, right we are dealing with property law, in fairness the Augustinians said the Friary was for the benefit of the people of Callan, end of story, you cannot leave property to an undefined group, it makes sense to leave it to Kilkenny Council, after all the place was run down and needed money spent. Now most of the views seem to think what the Kilkenny People printed was gospel, unfortunately they need to sell newspapers and dome of the articles can be slightly over the top, in any case such articles have no legal standing.
It would seem Kilkenny council spent money on the Friary, and made it available to groups from Callan, now we need to establish how Kilkenny council decided to sell the Friary to this limited company, see Catbears comments on limited companies, for the record it means that the liability extends only to the amount of shares one has, a copy of the articles of association might tell us, it could be as low as 1 cent for each shareholder, we then have no idea the amount the friary was sold for. In truth that was a commercial deal and as far as we are concerned none of our business.
What this limited company has done is to turf the groups out and intend using it for their own benefit, again none of our business.
The new venue the old boys school is no doubt run by the council, again the property needs to be maintained.
There may be some trying to make mischief, however if you have access to sufficient funds you can buy as much property as you like, in truth the people of Callan is such a wide term but it looked good on the headlines.
The one point worth looking for is how much did Kilkenny Council sell the Friary for?
I think a similar situation with the workhouse, I believe the same limited company operates from it, a great deal of public money was spent, which perhaps can be explained as preserving the past.
Now this is my opinion others may not agree, but remember we are delving into the realms of legality which can be complicated.
Our friend Catbear I am sure will guide us, if only he was on the council.
Foxy

catbear

kichencat wrote: »

Anyone in any doubt about the Friary being left to the People of Callan has only to read the article in Kilkenny People titled "the Augustinians bow out of Callan", dated Feb 16,2005.

Actually i just read the piece and the property still belongs to the Augustinians as they've merely leased it out for 999 years. So definitely the whole notion that the Friary belongs to the people of Callan or anyone else is a fallacy.

It looks like the Augustinians are having the last laugh at the people of Callan.

kikel

catbear wrote: »

Actually i just read the piece and the property still belongs to the Augustinians as they've merely leased it out for 999 years. So definitely the whole notion that the Friary belongs to the people of Callan or anyone else is a fallacy.

It looks like the Augustinians are having the last laugh at the people of Callan.

I don't think the Augustinians are having a laugh at the people of callan. I believe the reason they chose a 999 year lease is to make sure it stays as part of the community. The building cannot be sold and they hope the people of callan will benefit for many many years. I've seen similar lease where landlords of plantation towns gave land to the community under 99 year leases. The particular case i'm thinking of is a town park with football pitches and tennis courts. I saw the end of the lease come around and luckily it was given back the people under another 99 year lease. Granted there always is a fear that when the lease comes to an end it might not be renewed but the initial idea was to benefit the community.

The Trust (limited company) are there to mange the property. It is the people of callans responsibility to get involved, lobby the board to make sure that the building is use for the community. If people are not happy with the way it is ran there are a number of options open to them.

• Try get on the board to influence direction
• Lobby different board members about what the buulding should be used for.

I also presume board member can only stay for so long or have to be voted in by a panel. i honestly don;t know as i havent read thier legal documentation.

For anyone concern I recommend you get a copy of legal docs from the CRO or approach some of the board members to find out how the Trust is ran, how descision are made etc, etc.

As an alternative view of gifting something to the people I think the brewery site in KK was done differently. That was gifted to the people of KK but it was done differenetly. It was sold for a nominal sum. That give the council a right to do what ever the f**k they want with it. There is no community involvement there. (Opinion)

catbear

I think the only condition attached to the brewery site was that another brewer can't set up there, probably protecting their Kilkenny beer brand from competition.

At least now with Callan its established that it does not belong to anyone but the Augustinians, I asked twice who the deeds resided with.

kikel

catbear wrote: »

At least now with Callan its established that it does not belong to anyone but the Augustinians, I asked twice who the deeds resided with.

Totally respect you would like the questioned answered about who has the deeds but does it really matter in this case? It's on a 999 year lease. You are correct it does not belong to 'the people of callan' but it is under the control for the of a group of people who are meant to represent the people of callan for the close to the 999 years. In my eyes that's as good as owning it. But the Augustinians are making sure that no one individual can hold the deeds which they hope will means the people of callan get a long term benefit from it.

foxcoverteddy

All we change is owner for lessee, it is sold as normal with x years remaining, which in this case is a very long time, there could be a peppercorn rent payable, there is not a lot anyone can say or do, you can shout or pull faces but the new lessees are the owners and you must abide by their rules. One wonders what the move will be on the old 's cool, will this become part of the growing empire. Probably one should question the directors though not for any benefit. Foxy

foxcoverteddy

There is not any other group or association who could have taken the friary over, I guess we should be thankful it is going to be maintained for the foreseeable future, in truth Callan could or would have been a run down suburb without the groups intervention,one only has to remember bridge street and even now parts of Mill street are dire, I have to say it Callan has been lucky it was chosen, this sort of a u turn, but Callan could not look after itself, so I suggest it is time to stop complaining and wish the company good fortune and enjoy our town. A lot of thinking has gone into this, and as long as Callan is the winner so be it. Foxy

Ma1122

Hiya, just wondering if anybody has a bit of info regards working in callan bacon as a general operative, some info would be great. Thanks

hi5

Callan, Co' Tipperary....

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Cabaal

Thought its worth resurrecting this thread especially since it previously had details posted by others about the Friary Complex in the town and actions being taken by Callan Community Network and its news in Callan today.

A brief recap on recent events, last summer Callan Community Network started trying to evict the town's community creche from its purpose build taxpayer-funded building at the back of the Friary Complex, people in the community got very annoyed about such a tactic and so a large street protest took place and three large community meetings took place in the town where 100's of people showed support for what was going on and a number of local TD's and councillors also showed their support. Time and time again people called for Callan Community Network to no longer have control over the friary complex during these meetings as it was felt they did not have the town's best interests at heart, people asked the Friary Trust to take the lease off of them.

Well, as of today its been announced by the Friary Trust that Callan Community Network has handed their lease back to them. So Callan Community Network no longer is attempting to evict the town's community creche, a great relief to the parents, children and workers who have been upset by this whole situation.

Honestly, in all my years in Callan I only remember two protests taking place, the protests in Bridge Street to get the Callan Bypass build back in the early 1990's and the protest to save the community creche. i guess this shows just how much anger and upset CCN caused in the town.

Odyssey 2005

Great result. Was only talking about this issue with someone yesterday. Wonder Will this scupper the proposed creche in the Friary Walk development.

Cabaal

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Great result. Was only talking about this issue with someone yesterday. Wonder Will this scupper the proposed creche in the Friary Walk development.

Certainly is a good result for the community, parents and workers. Good for people to have the choice of a community crèche and not just be restricted to private operators.

If there's demand enough in the town another crèche should be grand, but I will say planning for one and one actually been build is another thing altogether.

Bolton Woods had plans for a crèche but it never happened for example. Now apparently the developer wants to build two extra houses instead.

I seem to remember that when the retail area was first completed beside Friary walk it initially had a crèche up stairs where the HSE stuff above the GP/medical centre is now. It didn't last very long though.