Formula 1 2015: Round 11 - Belgian GP

Cool_CM

Horror start for Rosberg

Kevski

Perez challenging for the lead!

challengemaster

Kevski wrote: »

Perez challenging for the lead!

That was one hell of a start for Perez.

Ghost Train

Redbull doing well, seem to have good speed up the hill even with the renault engine

Ghost Train

Williams must have been hoping for a wet race with all the downforce they have

challengemaster

Williams are just sitting ducks

challengemaster

Mixed compounds on bottas :eek:

challengemaster

Verstappen has some balls! That was a class overtake

Mike Litoris

challengemaster wrote: »

Verstappen has some balls! That was a class overtake

Some move alright! Great to watch.

Cool_CM

So he doesn't have to change them now that he's taken the penalty?

Cool_CM

Look at those clouds!

Jordan 199

Grosjean is putting in an awesome drive.

smellslikeshoes

Time for a raindance I think :pac:

AMKC

challengemaster wrote: »

Mixed compounds on bottas :eek:

Had to laugh when I seen that. Maybe if had of been too of the soft and two of the medium tyre on ok but 3 and 1 that was a very bad mess up. Say the car must have felt horrible to drive.

Kevski

Cheers Ben, Usain Bolt will be a lot more exciting than this!

challengemaster

Disaster for Vettel!

smellslikeshoes

Looked like he went very deep on the kerb before it blowed.

AMKC

Very bad strategy by Ferrari and Vettel. Well done to Romain Grosjean he done great drove a great race. A well deserved third place.

Mike Litoris

Good stuff out of Grosjean! Terrible luck for Vettel and Danny Ric. Some good entertainment from Verstappen. Thought Perez could have done more. Not a classic but ok race. Needed rain.


A special mention to that Williams mechanic who fcuked up....if it was him!

Ghost Train

Vettel very close to making the one stop work, good to see them try something different

Found the race a little bit dull, did they show any replay of Verstappens pass? one of the few highlights of the race

smellslikeshoes

AMKC wrote: »

Very bad strategy by Ferrari and Vettel. Well done to Romain Grosjean he done great drove a great race. A well deserved third place.

Don't see how it was a bad strategy from Ferrari, it was a puncture, they couldn't have known.

AMKC

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Don't see how it was a bad strategy from Ferrari, it was a puncture, they couldn't have known.

They tried to do a one stop strategy and go too far on them tyres. If Vettel had not been under pressure from Grosjean they might have made it but it still would have been very tight. They should have went for a two stop like everyone else and Vettel would have finished the race maybe not in 3rd but 5th or 6th and still would have got more points than he did now.

smellslikeshoes

AMKC wrote: »

They tried to do a one stop strategy and go too far on them tyres. If Vettel had not been under pressure from Grosjean they might have made it but it still would have been very tight. They should have went for a two stop like everyone else and Vettel would have finished the race maybe not in 3rd but 5th or 6th and still would have got more points than he did now.

So let me get this straight, you expect Ferrari to make a strategy decision that would give them a poorer result because something as random as puncture might possibly happen? Sorry your logic doesn't make sense.

Ghost Train

perrelli putting failure down to tyre wear and tyre being pushed too far but a few of the drivers saying it shouldn't fail like that at high speed

Cool_CM

AMKC wrote: »

Very bad strategy by Ferrari and Vettel. Well done to Romain Grosjean he done great drove a great race. A well deserved third place.

I'd imagine they were holding off for a call on the rain

AMKC

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

So let me get this straight, you expect Ferrari to make a strategy decision that would give them a poorer result because something as random as puncture might possibly happen? Sorry your logic doesn't make sense.

No not at all. They should be aiming to win but Perreli advised all the teams beforehand that a one stop strategy might not work. Ferrari and Vettel took a risk and they lost points because of it. If they had done the two stop strategy they might still have been able to get third if they done it right instead of what they done and being 12th. Surely Ferrari should have had an idea of how long both the soft and medium tyres would last from the free practice seasons.

_rebelkid

Ghost Train wrote: »

perrelli putting failure down to tyre wear and tyre being pushed too far but a few of the drivers saying it shouldn't fail like that at high speed

I agree with Pirelli. A puncture would have lead to an immediate deflation of the tyre, but what actually happened was the compound delaminating from the banding. That usually happens due to excessive wear. Yes, it shouldn't happen, but it does when you push the tyre too far. Had the race been 1 lap less, Ferrari would be hailed as geniuses.

Ghost Train

There doesnt seem to be that cliff with the tyres where the performance dramatically falls off like there used to be. Maybe that would be a safer symptom of wear than complete failure. Maybe the torque of the new engines or something about Spa that makes it different these days

challengemaster

_rebelkid wrote: »

I agree with Pirelli. A puncture would have lead to an immediate deflation of the tyre, but what actually happened was the compound delaminating from the banding. That usually happens due to excessive wear. Yes, it shouldn't happen, but it does when you push the tyre too far. Had the race been 1 lap less, Ferrari would be hailed as geniuses.

Surely though there'd be something obvious on telemetry if the tyre was about to pop?

Harika

challengemaster wrote: »

Surely though there'd be something obvious on telemetry if the tyre was about to pop?

They see the temperatures and pressure, but no indication that a tyre will explode. I was wondering why Mercedes took the pitstop so late in the race and now you see why.

challengemaster

Harika wrote: »

They see the temperatures and pressure, but no indication that a tyre will explode. I was wondering why Mercedes took the pitstop so late in the race and now you see why.

http://formulaspy.com/formula-1/formula-1-news/sebastian-vettel-launches-scathing-attack-on-pirelli-17816

Belgian Grand Prix – Ferrari’s Sebastian Vettel lost a podium on the penultimate lap of the race at Spa-Francorchamps due to a tyre failure. The championship challenger has since angrily attacked Pirelli for “bull****” excuses. Vettel’s tyre let go on the 28th lap of his second stint. Running the Medium tyres, Vettel’s right rear tyre exploded on the Kemmel straight on the penultimate lap and left the German driver pointless after a strong race.

A terse Vettel explained to Sky Sports F1 after the race that he had gotten no warning of the failure: “No problem to maintain the position, so…no warning.”

Going into more detail, the Ferrari driver told BBC that the length of his stint was not unusually long: “Well how many laps was I missing? Not many. Things like that are not allowed to happen, full stop. If it happens 200 metres earlier, I’m not standing here now, so I don’t know what else needs to happen.

We get the same as every time: “Yeah there was a cut, debris, bodywork, the driver went wide. Bullsh*t!

“If Nico tells us that he didn’t go off the track then he didn’t go off the track, same with me: I didn’t go out of the track, just out of the blue it explodes and as I said, if this happens earlier, then I am f**ked.”

Pirelli’s Paul Hembery explained to Sky after the race that the tyre was approaching the end of its “wear life” when it exploded. However, this appears to be at odds with information Ferrari were given which seemed to suggest that 40 laps was the expected life length of the Medium tyre compound.

Mike Litoris

What happened to the time when worn tyres would be so slow there was no choice but to change them. I doubt Pirelli told Ferrari that the tires would explode if pushed too far.


I can understand the anger about this. Tires shouldn't fall off the cliff into oblivion.

Harika

Please give three examples of similar tyre blow ups where the driver afterwards stated that they anticipated it. As said a slow puncture is visible in the data even before a driver realises it. Yesterday they showed a picture of ironically Vettels car after Eau rouge and how the tyre was moving there aka which forces are at work there.

Harika

Mike Litoris wrote: »

What happened to the time when worn tyres would be so slow there was no choice but to change them. I doubt Pirelli told Ferrari that the tires would explode if pushed too far.


I can understand the anger about this. Tires shouldn't fall off the cliff into oblivion.

The teams didn`t like the cliff so it was removed now they complain that it is not there. As Pirelli you just can get cookoo.

HighLine

This press release from Pirelli is going to get a few backs up

http://f1pressarea.pirelli.com/wp-content/files/pdf/26927.pdf?utm_source=tw-pirellisport&utm_medium=social&utm_content=post&utm_campaign=editoriale2015

 In November 2013, Pirelli requested that there should be rules to govern
the maximum number of laps that can be driven on the same set of tyres,
among other parameters to do with correct tyre usage. This request was
not accepted. The proposal put forward a maximum distance equivalent to
50% of the grand prix distance for the prime tyre and 30% for the option.
These conditions, if applied today at Spa, would have limited the
maximum number of laps on the medium compound to 22.

Slutmonkey57b

HighLine wrote: »

This press release from Pirelli is going to get a few backs up

http://f1pressarea.pirelli.com/wp-content/files/pdf/26927.pdf?utm_source=tw-pirellisport&utm_medium=social&utm_content=post&utm_campaign=editoriale2015

I'm going to hold off judging Pirelli on this because we all remember the bleating from many teams in 2012 over "unacceptably dangerous" tyres when it turned out that the teams suffering tyre failures were teams using them in ways they'd been told not to. The teams (and drivers) aren't above lying to cover their own mistakes or borderline decisions.

Maldonado switched the car off going over the kerbs, Daniel had two tank slappers going over the kerbs, Nico and Vettel both had tyre failures after exploring the track limits... You know why those kerbs are hard on the car, drivers?

You're not supposed to be on them!

Completely agree. Spa was where teams were running tyres outside recommended camber angles as well and that was somehow spun as a Pirelli problem.

Jordan 199

OSI, did you take the pictures you posted on page three at Stavelot?

Frank Bullitt

Pretty bleh race, not much going on other than the midfield battle.

The Mercs are probably further ahead now than before.

jasonb

I really don't understand the point of having track limits, or the 'rule' about breaking them if they're going to be ignored. There were certain corners in yesterday's race where nearly every driver almost consistently went fully over the white lines. If nearly every driver is doing it nearly every time, it's clearly not slowing them down (or they'd stop doing it) so they're getting an advantage from it...

J.

antodeco

What I find odd is that Rosberg and Vettels rear right tyre went. The same tyre the williams "accidentally" put on as a different compound. Maybe they were concerned over punctures, so just ran the car out on that tyre (i know its far fetched )

robk24

Was at the race, first time at one. Thought it was amazing. Some difference in watching on the TV you just can't see how steep the inclines are on TV.
Some noise and atmosphere in Spa, watching the different cars going up eau rouge was breath taking.
Had a pretty good spot to watch from too!

robk24

Was at the race, first time at one. Thought it was amazing. Some difference in watching on the TV you just can't see how steep the inclines are on TV.
Some noise and atmosphere in Spa, watching the different cars going up eau rouge was breath taking.
Had a pretty good spot to watch from too!

Jordan 199

Jordan 191 wrote: »

My gut instinct is telling me Massa will be on the podium on Sunday.

How wrong I was.

*Punches self in stomach*

Myrddin

robk24 wrote: »

Some noise

You enjoyed the GP2 then yeah?

Zcott

jasonb wrote: »

I really don't understand the point of having track limits, or the 'rule' about breaking them if they're going to be ignored. There were certain corners in yesterday's race where nearly every driver almost consistently went fully over the white lines. If nearly every driver is doing it nearly every time, it's clearly not slowing them down (or they'd stop doing it) so they're getting an advantage from it...

J.

They're not getting an advantage over each other, which is why they're all doing it and it's not penalised. Bring back grass and gravel, I say!

robk24

Myrddin wrote: »

You enjoyed the GP2 then yeah?

Yeah it was a bit weird alright. We were completely blown away by the start of the GP2 races Saturday and Sunday the entire stand was vibrating and left your ears ringing so the F1 seemed a "little" lacking when they took off. Strange alright.

jasonb

Zcott wrote: »

They're not getting an advantage over each other, which is why they're all doing it and it's not penalised. Bring back grass and gravel, I say!

But by that logic, if every team decides to break a rule, they're not getting any advantage over each other, so no penalty. So they could all decide to ignore the virtual safety car for example, and as long as they all do it, no penalty!

Obviously that's an extreme example. When it comes down to it, either set the rules and uphold them, or don't set them in the first place! Setting rules and then letting everyone break them is just pointless...

J.

Myrddin

I think it's a bit annoying how they only enforce white line rules at certain places and even at that, only at certain tracks. The white lines are there for a reason, they define the track limits...the grey area of 'is there an advantage or not' could be just cleaned up if they stick to the intentions of the white lines.