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Renting: Confirming salary / Bank statement

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245

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    #32
    ec18
    Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭ec18


    JohnBee wrote: »

    Get over it, black out any bits you dont want landlord to see, it is perfectly reasonable. You cant buy a car without doing a credit check, get over it, if you dont like it rent somewhere else.

    Just on this some landlords will insist on full transaction history with nothing blacked out.


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    #33
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    syklops wrote: »
    Well obviously you don't use the number they provide, you look the persons name up in the phone book, or get their details from the PRTB.

    What in your book would be an independently verifiable?

    So you dont want a bank statement from the past month, you want their bank statements from the last year indicating their rent being paid into the landlords account?

    You look the person's name up in the phone book? How do you know you're not looking up his friend?

    The PRTB will not release those details.

    Will a landlord give a bad tenant a glowing reference to shift them on?

    Independently verifiable is exactly what it means - a third party provides evidence.

    Where did I say statements for the past year. Three months would be more than enough


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    #34
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    syklops wrote: »
    And the bank ;)
    I learnt a long time ago to never but all your eggs in the one basket so the bank don't know my status either.


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    #35
    Jambonjunior
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭Jambonjunior


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    You look the person's name up in the phone book? How do you know you're not looking up his friend?

    The PRTB will not release those details.

    Will a landlord give a bad tenant a glowing reference to shift them on?

    Independently verifiable is exactly what it means - a third party provides evidence.

    Where did I say statements for the past year. Three months would be more than enough

    Would multiple reliable landlord references but enough to satisfy you or is only bank statements going to do it?


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    #36
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    You look the person's name up in the phone book? How do you know you're not looking up his friend?

    OK, so references aren't worth the paper they are printed on. So why did you ask for one?
    The PRTB will not release those details.

    Yes they will
    Will a landlord give a bad tenant a glowing reference to shift them on?

    I doubt it.
    Independently verifiable is exactly what it means - a third party provides evidence.

    Thats nice but such a service does not currently exist in Ireland.
    Where did I say statements for the past year. Three months would be more than enough
    But that only shows they've paid for the past three months. Plus:

    Paid 1200 to account number 56781245 on a bank statement means nothing. That could be going to paddy power for all you know.


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    #37
    CaoimheSquee
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭CaoimheSquee


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    I ask for it and am happy to provide the tenant with access to my profit and loss account showing the mortgage going out, rent coming in, management fee being paid and repairs being carried out. I work on the basis of what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    .

    This.

    The amount of tenants finding themselves in receivership situations it should most definitely be a two way thing these days.


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    #38
    dissed doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    Jambonjunior wrote: »
    I've agreed to lease a property and have been asked to provide details of my salary or a bank statement. I've nothing to hide and can afford the rent but feel uncomfortable providing that kind of private information. Is asking for these details normal?

    I've already provided work references that I have a permanent full-time job, should that not suffice?

    Well if they want a confirmation of your salary (i.e., ability to pay, that rent is for example no more than 1/3 of your salary), and you don't give it, you might not get the tenancy.

    I would say it is becoming normal, due to the risks the property owner is exposed to. You don't have to provide it though (but they don't have to give you the tenancy!).


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    #39
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    JohnBee wrote: »
    How on earth does paying deposit and first month indicate that a potential tenant has ability to pay the rent on an on-going basis? I have done it each time I rented in the past.

    Get over it, black out any bits you dont want landlord to see, it is perfectly reasonable. You cant buy a car without doing a credit check, get over it, if you dont like it rent somewhere else.

    I didn't like it, so I did rent elsewhere...

    With regards to your first point, I could earn 50k a year and still not be able to afford 1k a month rent, a salary going into my account means nothing when you can't see wherer that salary is being spent. I might make 50k but I could be in debt of 100k or I could make 25k and have 0 debt.


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    #40
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    VisibleGorilla wrote: »
    A bank statement isn't worth much either.

    I can make my bank statement say whatever I want so Mr. Landlord will be happy as larry, useless.

    Really. How does that work with an original statement?


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    #41
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    CaoimheSquee wrote: »
    This.

    The amount of tenants finding themselves in receivership situations it should most definitely be a two way thing these days.

    Have you got numbers for the amount of tenants it's happening to?


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    #42
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    How is a previous landlord's reference independently veverifiable?

    How does a work reference prove you are credit worthy and will be a performing tenant?

    Your bank statements wouldnt do that either. The most info you'll get is that they earn more than the rent is and you have to trust the tenant that the bank statement hasnt been altered. Give me 10 minutes and I could have my account saying I could buy the house in cash every week. Its paper with words and numbers on it.


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    #43
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    Your bank statements wouldnt do that either. The most info you'll get is that they earn more than the rent is and you have to trust the tenant that the bank statement hasnt been altered. Give me 10 minutes and I could have my account saying I could buy the house in cash every week. Its paper with words and numbers on it.

    It shows the outflow of their rent each month ie they pay their rent.

    Can you explain how you would alter an original bank statement?


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    #44
    Jambonjunior
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭Jambonjunior


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    Your bank statements wouldnt do that either. The most info you'll get is that they earn more than the rent is and you have to trust the tenant that the bank statement hasnt been altered. Give me 10 minutes and I could have my account saying I could buy the house in cash every week. Its paper with words and numbers on it.

    I really don't see the required distinction between "X works works here full-time" and "X is paid y", when it's a safe assumption from the former that X earns enough to cover the rent. Is there really much of extra comfort in knowing the exact amount?


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    #45
    CaoimheSquee
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭CaoimheSquee


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    Have you got numbers for the amount of tenants it's happening to?

    If it hasn't occurred to you or someone you know first hand that the risk having to move from somewhere you currently rent because the landlord has lost their property to the bank then you are lucky indeed!

    There is a major housing crisis in the country and repossessions and and receiverships are unfortunately horrendously common now with out of date legislation written in a different time.

    I am not sure why you need an exact number to know this is quite the norm these days.

    Fair is fair. I will prove I can pay the rent comfortably if you can prove I won't be getting a letter from a receiver saying I will be getting the boot soon through no fault of my own. Simples!


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    #46
    VisibleGorilla
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭VisibleGorilla


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    Really. How does that work with an original statement?
    Is your world coming crashing down now that the bank statements you've received mean absolutely nothing?


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    #47
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    CaoimheSquee wrote: »
    If it hasn't occurred to you or someone you know first hand that the risk having to move from somewhere you currently rent because the landlord has lost their property to the bank then you are lucky indeed!

    There is a major housing crisis in the country and repossessions and and receiverships are unfortunately horrendously common now with out of date legislation written in a different time.

    I am not sure why you need an exact number to know this is quite the norm these days.

    Fair is fair. I will prove I can pay the rent comfortably if you can prove I won't be getting a letter from a receiver saying I will be getting the boot soon through no fault of my own. Simples!

    Nothing but emotive hyperbole in that post. Not an ounce of objective evidence presented


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    #48
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    VisibleGorilla wrote: »
    Is your world coming crashing down now that the bank statements you've received mean absolutely nothing?

    You never explained how you could alter an original bank statement issued by the bank?


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    #49
    VisibleGorilla
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭VisibleGorilla


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    You never explained how you could alter an original bank statement issued by the bank?
    I don't really need to go into the exact process.

    Anything can be altered, and this can be done quite easily.

    It just goes to shows you that demanding for this information is useless, I wouldn't even go to the bother of altering it, I'd just refuse and move onto the next property and I'd recommend others to do the same.


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    #50
    dissed doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    Although it would be easily faked, it would be extremely useful potentially if if a tenant stopped paying. A feature of the lease may be that the salary of the tenant is at least e.g., 3 times the rent and that if that is not so, the contract is invalid and cannot proceed.

    If the tenant submits faked salary certs or bank statements, it would make the lease null and void from the beginning. Thus bypassing PTRB as the tenancy could only exist if both parties signed the lease as per the requirements. This is not dissimilar to lying on insurance applications, and subsequently finding your insurance claim denied as you supplied invalid information thus nullifying the contract.

    If there was a still a PTRB claim, the documents could be assessed easily, and a lying tenant from the beginning would be easy to identify. Anything can be faked but requiring the salary certs simply protects the honest landlord and the honest tenant; it is only negative for the dishonest tenant who is then on paper showing they faked or mislead the landlord. Is there really a problem with this?


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    #51
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    VisibleGorilla wrote: »
    I don't really need to go into the exact process.

    Anything can be altered, and this can be done quite easily.

    It just goes to shows you that demanding for this information is useless, I wouldn't even go to the bother of altering it, I'd just refuse and move onto the next property and I'd recommend others to do the same.

    You can't go into the process because you know you can't alter it.

    Yep advocating a system where people abdicate or game the system is forward thinking!


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    #52
    matrim
    Registered Users Posts: 7,518 ✭✭✭matrim


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    You can't go into the process because you know you can't alter it.

    Yep advocating a system where people abdicate or game the system is forward thinking!

    I only get online statements in PDF format. It would be fairly easy to modify those to say whatever you want, especially if you are giving a redacted statement which would likely be a photocopy anyway


    As MarkAnthony said, the correct way around all this is to have a proper credit rating system in place


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    #53
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    matrim wrote: »
    I only get online statements in PDF format. It would be fairly easy to modify those to say whatever you want, especially if you are giving a redacted statement which would likely be a photocopy anyway

    Your bank will print an original for a fee


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    #54
    Clearlier
    Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    Living in the UK I was asked to get my bank to stamp a form stating that in their opinion we were capable of paying the rent. Don't know if that would work in Ireland or even if it's widespread in the UK. I thought it was odd but I was happier to do that than I would have been to show my bank statements to the letting agency or landlord.


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    #55
    Jambonjunior
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭Jambonjunior


    Clearlier wrote: »
    Living in the UK I was asked to get my bank to stamp a form stating that in their opinion we were capable of paying the rent. Don't know if that would work in Ireland or even if it's widespread in the UK. I thought it was odd but I was happier to do that than I would have been to show my bank statements to the letting agency or landlord.

    Has anyone done that in Ireland? I'd have no problem furnishing someone with a document from the bank saying the rent isn't more than 1/3 or whatever fraction required of my salary.


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    #56
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    Clearlier wrote: »
    Living in the UK I was asked to get my bank to stamp a form stating that in their opinion we were capable of paying the rent. Don't know if that would work in Ireland or even if it's widespread in the UK. I thought it was odd but I was happier to do that than I would have been to show my bank statements to the letting agency or landlord.

    Sounds like a good idea and it would be quite easy to supply the reverse with a stamped form declaring that the landlord is up to date with mortgage repayments.


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    #57
    testaccount123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    Your bank will print an original for a fee

    There are printers in places other than banks now...


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    #58
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    testaccount123 wrote: »
    There are printers in places other than banks now...

    And every printer prints original bank statements


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    #59
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    dissed doc wrote: »
    Although it would be easily faked, it would be extremely useful potentially if if a tenant stopped paying. A feature of the lease may be that the salary of the tenant is at least e.g., 3 times the rent and that if that is not so, the contract is invalid and cannot proceed.

    If the tenant submits faked salary certs or bank statements, it would make the lease null and void from the beginning. Thus bypassing PTRB as the tenancy could only exist if both parties signed the lease as per the requirements. This is not dissimilar to lying on insurance applications, and subsequently finding your insurance claim denied as you supplied invalid information thus nullifying the contract.

    If there was a still a PTRB claim, the documents could be assessed easily, and a lying tenant from the beginning would be easy to identify. Anything can be faked but requiring the salary certs simply protects the honest landlord and the honest tenant; it is only negative for the dishonest tenant who is then on paper showing they faked or mislead the landlord. Is there really a problem with this?

    All good points but unfortunately not enforceable at the moment.

    A credit based score would overcome a huge amount of these obstacles


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    #60
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    gordongekko wrote: »
    I'd walk away. You are signing a contract to pay for the property for a set period of time. If you fail to pay they can take you to court.


    costing the LL thousands... next up please in the queue with references and statements


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    #61
    testaccount123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    handlemaster wrote: »
    costing the LL thousands... next up please in the queue with references and statements

    Problem is, a lot of professional people wont be happy to hand over bank statements to your average Irish landlord so by definition you are left with people who dont really understand the rights and obligations involved in renting here.


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