Beef Data Genomics Programme (2015-2020)

Milked out

Bellview wrote: »

I missed that self certification note in the post... since docility is in the star weightings it would definitely help if we could rate them all 5's to help the grant

That would defeat the purpose if ye want to get more accurate info. Get the point alright that if lads are looking to get money from the scheme not much to stop them from putting in wrong info to make it look better but as I assume the stars will go up and down based on more info than just one animal so it may not effect the star rating of your cows much at all.

Milked out

MollyRo wrote: »

Yeah I get that alright, I guess its early days for the scheme, I think AI may be what we need to look at when it comes to breeding replacements... I really don't want the hassle of it, for now I'll just hope that the bulls ratings remain the same or increase, his calves are pretty impressive and are thriving though...

I guess at the end of the day your business is getting a calf out of the cow and off the farm in order to make as much profit as possible. If ye have a system that's working for u and making u money I wouldn't change drastically to fall in line with a scheme unless payment from it increases your bottom line. If small changes required go for it by all means as the more people partaking and the more info comes in the more relevant star rarings will become. Use it to make yourself more profitable for you and improve your herd but like that it will come down to you recording your own info and then using star ratings to join in. I've had cows with high ebi.s that I've culled and cows with low ebi still here after 14 years that are super.
Don't know in and outs of scheme but it appears to be using payment to entice e lads to make changes to herds solely on paper genetic info as opposed to using both that and physical info on the ground in each herd. It would be fine bar the reliability figures are too low for those kinda changes. I use genomic bulls here but a minimum of 5 or 6 and and few proven ones as well. Hard to do if you don't have numbers id imagine you would have to use proven sires with lower numbers imo

sako 85

This may have been answered previously but I can't see it here. If I increase my cow number in 2016, will I be paid for every cow calving so long as I have the required area? Or is the maximum I can be paid, the number of cows I had calving in the reference year?

It appears to me from reading the questions and answers page on the departments website that I am allowed increase cow numbers above that of the reference year so long as I have the required area.

Can you increase cow numbers during the six year programme?
Yes, but payment on this Programme will be restricted to the maximum payable area.

blue5000

sako 85 wrote: »

This may have been answered previously but I can't see it here. If I increase my cow number in 2016, will I be paid for every cow calving so long as I have the required area? Or is the maximum I can be paid, the number of cows I had calving in the reference year?

It appears to me from reading the questions and answers page on the departments website that I am allowed increase cow numbers above that of the reference year so long as I have the required area.

Can you increase cow numbers during the six year programme?
Yes, but payment on this Programme will be restricted to the maximum payable area.

I think you have answered it yourself, whatever payment you get is based on what cows you had last year, unless force majure case applies.

sako 85

thanks for that Blue, I just wanted to confirm as I heard so many conflicting views.

tanko

Had cows and calves in the yard for worm/fluke treatment and pnuemonia vaccination over the weekend and got genomic tagging done and posted away. Some animals have four tags now, not much room for any more.

Bullocks

tanko wrote: »

Had cows and calves in the yard for worm/fluke treatment and pnuemonia vaccination over the weekend and got genomic tagging done and posted away. Some animals have four tags now, not much room for any more.

If they are like the last genomic tags I used they wont have 4 tags for long

tanko

Bullocks wrote: »

If they are like the last genomic tags I used they wont have 4 tags for long

You mustn't be tagging them properly:P. I never thought to check if the cows that got the genomic tags last year still have them.

porter shark

Is it true that a cow in the scheme is only supposed to calf five times in her lifetime?

manjou

tanko wrote: »

Had cows and calves in the yard for worm/fluke treatment and pnuemonia vaccination over the weekend and got genomic tagging done and posted away. Some animals have four tags now, not much room for any more.

They will have to give stars for cows with bigger ears to cope

Dozer1

no sign of tags here yet,
Got a letter yesterday with the animal survey for calf quality and docility as well as the cow quality survey.

In the Beef Data Scheme I filled all that stuff out on the Dept website, does anyone know if that can be done this time around? I'm not an ICBF member so I can stick to the paper forms if the Dept not updating their website

kelslat

Did most people get the tags? I just got a list of cows to tag over a week ago.

Bullocks

Dozer1 wrote: »

no sign of tags here yet,
Got a letter yesterday with the animal survey for calf quality and docility as well as the cow quality survey.

In the Beef Data Scheme I filled all that stuff out on the Dept website, does anyone know if that can be done this time around? I'm not an ICBF member so I can stick to the paper forms if the Dept not updating their website

I think it says on that letter that you can fill in the data on ag food but I haven't looked for it on ag food

skoger

kelslat wrote: »

Did most people get the tags? I just got a list of cows to tag over a week ago.

It was around 10 days after that sheet came before the tags arrived here

Bullocks

kelslat wrote: »

Did most people get the tags? I just got a list of cows to tag over a week ago.

No tags here yet . And I still can't decide if I'll go in or not .

tanko

porter shark wrote: »

Is it true that a cow in the scheme is only supposed to calf five times in her lifetime?

No, the reason cows which have five calves or less are being picked for tagging this year is because there is more chance of those cows still being around in 2018 and 2020 when the conditions for the scheme have to be met.
By 2018 all females on a farm will be tagged I'd imagine.

kelslat

Just seen on the journal today that the tissue sampling tags are 22 euro each. They are also saying that this price will remain unchanged for 2015, 2016, and maybe 2017.

kollegeknight

My tags arrived, cattle were tagged and samples sent away.

Then got the letter to tell me the cattle I would be tagging.

patsy_mccabe

I got a form to fill out for the cows on docility, milk etc. This will be the 4th time I think, that I will be filling out for some cows. I always try and do it right anyway. They way i see it, if I am consistent in the data I give them for the same cows, they will have greater faith in the figures I give them. Might even help my star ratings.

bogman_bass

No tags here yet

Charliebull

bogman_bass wrote: »

No tags here yet

same here and in no hurry, be nice if they arrived in november when cows gone in

bogman_bass

porter shark wrote: »

Is it true that a cow in the scheme is only supposed to calf five times in her lifetime?

No! where did you get that from?

Western Pomise

kelslat wrote: »

Just seen on the journal today that the tissue sampling tags are 22 euro each. They are also saying that this price will remain unchanged for 2015, 2016, and maybe 2017.

Am still undecided on whether I'm going into scheme or not.
Has anyone heard anything definitive in any way shape or form yet on WHO is going to pay for the tags mentioned above?
Maybe someone at the ploughing match might have heard something on the grapevine?

Bellview

Western Pomise wrote: »

Am still undecided on whether I'm going into scheme or not.
Has anyone heard anything definitive in any way shape or form yet on WHO is going to pay for the tags mentioned above?
Maybe someone at the ploughing match might have heard something on the grapevine?

Farmer pays for tags.. This is the gravy train part for icbf..

tomieen jones

Bellview wrote: »

Farmer pays for tags.. This is the gravy train part for icbf..

How much per cow is this scheme worth after all the expenses does anyone know?

tanko

tomieen jones wrote: »

How much per cow is this scheme worth after all the expenses does anyone know?

It's worth about €72 to me after the genomic testing is paid for if I keep the same no. of cows I had last year.
The cost of doing some sort of health plan by my vet has to be taken out of this also, don't know how much this will be.
It'll be worth about €2K a year to me, it's hard to turn that down for all the scheme's faults.

limo_100

have still received no tags here yet anyway did anyone the the results of the white tags from last year?? Is it true that they will be increasing or decreasing the stars depending on the results of the test

mattP

Is there anyway to register the sire of an animal that was already marked "unknown sire"?

limo_100

mattP wrote: »

Is there anyway to register the sire of an animal that was already marked "unknown sire"?

it can be done on the icbf website

tanko

mattP wrote: »

Is there anyway to register the sire of an animal that was already marked "unknown sire"?

If you ring ICBF they'll do it over the phone too.

dohc turbo2

https://www.facebook.com/Thatsfarming/posts/974485892609747 Telling it how the scheme really is here, click into the link

jfh

Any other new starters using 2015 as reference year.

The man in red and black

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/Thatsfarming/posts/974485892609747 Telling it how the scheme really is here, click into the link

I found that article a bit sensationalist. It tries to make out that farmers are forced into the scheme. It is there if you want it, if it sounds like too much effort then don't go in. Yes, it sounds like there are some kinks to be ironed out with the ratings and how they pass on to offspring, but going on and on about how a bull bought in 2014 would HAVE to be sold by 2019 is just nonsense, what percentage of lads are keeping a bull for 6 breeding seasons anyway?!

High bike

Got my samples taken today same as the bvd tags

MollyRo

I have a new stock bull - first timer - to introduce to the herd. Is there a section in the icbf website where I can mark him so I can have him tagged for genomics scheme?

skoger

You can't choose what animals to test this year but you'd think stock bulls should be a priority.

MollyRo

I got through to icbf... actually not too much of a problem... I could wait until he produces calves and he'd be picked up in the following round of tags to be tested... so i opted not to wait, there is a section in services -> genomics services
then i selected the animal and purchase a tag, €30 but worth it really... keen to see what his make up is like.

skoger

Will doing it that way count as part of the 60% you have to test annually?

MollyRo

skoger wrote: »

Will doing it that way count as part of the 60% you have to test annually?

It's just for a new stock bull saves me waiting for him to produce calves. I'm keen to see what they come up with!

Bellview

MollyRo wrote: »

It's just for a new stock bull saves me waiting for him to produce calves. I'm keen to see what they come up with!

don't rely on the ICBF results to predict what he will breed... the hope is that after 6 years that we might have a database... look at the 5 star bulls that exist today and I bet they are all not great breeding cattle

The man in red and black

At home they broke two of the tissue tags when sampling, reported this to get new tags and had to take hair samples from the tail instead. I thought a new tag would have been alot easier. Anyone else have this?

Edit: Never mind, readying the ICBF BDGP flyers and all answered! Still think a tag would have been handier than the brother going at a cows tail with a vice grips trying to pull out hairs!

tomieen jones

The man in red and black wrote: »

At home they broke two of the tissue tags when sampling, reported this to get new tags and had to take hair samples from the tail instead. I thought a new tag would have been alot easier. Anyone else have this?

Edit: Never mind, readying the ICBF BDGP flyers and all answered! Still think a tag would have been handier than the brother going at a cows tail with a vice grips trying to pull out hairs!

Hair samples would be easier in my opinion and cheaper too id imagine ! Dunno why they went the tag route. !easier get at a mad cows tail in the crush than her ear !also less the price of the tag

Dozer1

for anyone who isn't on ICBF and records there animal event stuff on the Dept agfood site I rang the dept yesterday and they said they hope to have the surveys for the genomics scheme up at the end of October.

Some joke it wasn't ready to go much quicker, its pretty much a copy of what they had for the last few schemes

Charliebull

The man in red and black wrote: »

At home they broke two of the tissue tags when sampling, reported this to get new tags and had to take hair samples from the tail instead. I thought a new tag would have been alot easier. Anyone else have this?

Edit: Never mind, readying the ICBF BDGP flyers and all answered! Still think a tag would have been handier than the brother going at a cows tail with a vice grips trying to pull out hairs!

WTF are ya using a vice grips for, its a hair sample not the whole tail;)

i did mine last year that way in the field, bull included, up behind them grab the end of the tail and get a few hairs, far less hassle on man and beast

ellewood

Charliebull wrote: »

WTF are ya using a vice grips for, its a hair sample not the whole tail;)

i did mine last year that way in the field, bull included, up behind them grab the end of the tail and get a few hairs, far less hassle on man and beast

Ahh you would be used to going up behind and grabbing tho....:D

Charliebull

ellewood wrote: »

Ahh you would be used to going up behind and grabbing tho....:D

aah but i never had to lift the tail, they usually did that themselves

how all in KK, ye won that funny game with the sticks again i see

MollyRo

Weaning calves at the moment. Where do I record the weaning weights on icbf?

MollyRo

Also I can't find where to record the docility on the site. Does it have to be by paperwork?

Bellview

tomieen jones wrote: »

Hair samples would be easier in my opinion and cheaper too id imagine ! Dunno why they went the tag route. !easier get at a mad cows tail in the crush than her ear !also less the price of the tag

+1 on hairs... hairs have been used on the ped bulls for the past few years and seem to work ok... avoids annoying the animals with more tags

ellewood

Bellview wrote: »

+1 on hairs... hairs have been used on the ped bulls for the past few years and seem to work ok... avoids annoying the animals with more tags

True, hairs easier and work just as well, But the cynic in me would say that with hairs tho that the tag company dosen't get a twist of our E90.00/head